Kiper Mock v4.0

[I hate the Bills !]

Round 1

 

Dareus or Miller are the 2 picks we should make. Cam Newton is a taller more athletic Jamarcus Russell, What the hell is he gonna do in the WNY snow when its minus 10 with a Lake Erie Wind chill , I think he will have trouble in snow.

 

 

Miller is a very solid Pass Rusher and he will apply pressure and make lots tackles.

 

Daureus will clog the middle next to Kyle William or be our 3/4 DE and apple pressure.

 

 

 

Round 2 - I like the Kid from Nevada, #10 Colin Kaepernick he's got moxy, He can throw, run and he does't have a 5 cent head, his mechanics may need some work but the kid is a fight and frankly I cried when he brought NEvada back against Boise State to beat them in OT. Buffalo needs a Guy who can deliver in the clutch because Brian Brohm isn't the answer at # 2.

 

 

The Bills needs to draft more like the Steelers and Packers !

 

 

 

Round 3 O.T

[PDaDdy]

Cam Newton is a taller more athletic Jamarcus Russell,

 

Interesting comment. Care to elaborate on what makes them so similar?

[DrDawkinstein]

Interesting comment. Care to elaborate on what makes them so similar?

 

I stopped reading right there myself.

[PDaDdy]

I stopped reading right there myself.

 

 

Normally I would lambaste somebody for that comment but maybe they have some insightful comparisons that I hadn't considered before.

[DanInUticaTampa]

What's wrong with Cam Jordan?

 

Talent wise, he doesn't seem like a top 5 pick. He wouldn't be a bad pick, but he would definently be a reach at 3. He would help us against the run, but he would do nothing for us as a pass rusher. So it depends on what you want more.... pass rush or stop the run... but hating on Miller just because he needs to bulk up, which is one of the few things that can actually be fixed, is ridiculous. the whole "miller is a reach because he has to bulk up" in nonesense. Are you saying Clay mathews was a reach by green bay because he had to bulk up? That is just nonesense. Complete nonesense.

 

I like jordan, and would love him as the pick. But calling a player a reach because he has to "bulk up" makes no sense. There are some things you can teach a player, like football insincts, speed, reaction time, etc. Miller has all that stuff you can't teach a player. And you want to rag on him because he needs to bulk up, something a lot of these prospects have to do? Yeah, size does matter in the nfl, like you said. But if you are drafting a player because he already is big over a player who is more talented, that is ridiculous. Take the talented player and bulk him up. Don't take an already bulky player with less talent and think you can make him more talented. I am not saying jordan is less or more talented (though miller does seem to have more rare abilites), but you are really hating on miller for something that is SO easy to fix.

[DrDawkinstein]

Normally I would lambaste somebody for that comment but maybe they have some insightful comparisons that I hadn't considered before.

 

If Philfan can come up with something that we havent heard in the previous 3 months of discussion, Id love to see it.

[PDaDdy]

If Philfan can come up with something that we havent heard in the previous 3 months of discussion, Id love to see it.

 

Heh. I was basically just calling BS. I literally can't think of a single thing that these two guys have in common other than the obvious one...they are both....uh....QBs. LOL

[NewEra]

Im not saying he CANT succeed in the NFL, I just think he WONT succeed at that size.

 

 

You reference James Harrison. Are you familiar with Harrison's entire 9 year career, or only the last 3 seasons?

 

Due to his size, Harrison went undrafted. He was picked up by the Steelers, and sat on their practice squad for TWO YEARS, being released three times before being signed by Baltimore who also cut him. He then played in NFL Europe.

 

He finally came back to the Steelers in 2004, struggled to get on the field, spent a couple more years developing and FINALLY had a good season in 2007. FIVE YEARS AFTER being drafted.

 

 

But since he is small, you use that as proof we SHOULD draft Miller at #3 OVERALL?!?!?!??

Points well taken. I understand your view and see why you feel that way, but I don't recall ever saying we "SHOULD" take Von Miller. I like him, I think he has a chance to be a difference maker at a position we need. I like Moats, but I'm not sold on Merriman coming back healthy and staying healthy, nor am I sold on Batten due to the fact I've never seen him play. While I like Quinn, I haven't seen him play OLB, not sure if anyone has. I feel that Miller can excel at covering TEs due to his athleticism, purely speculation at this point obviously. Speculation is all that we have right now. My main focus in the debate of "to miller, or not to miller" is refuting that he can't be successful due to his size and strength. Ive seen countless people say that he can't stop the run, when he wasn't asked to stop the run jn college. He was asked to get after the QB. I feel he can and will get bigger and stronger and can become a force vs the run. Should we draft him? You're guess is as good as mine. I just don't like it when people post in absolute terms (not saying you do, but many others do), nothing is absolute at this point. Purely speculation.

[PDaDdy]

Points well taken. I understand your view and see why you feel that way, but I don't recall ever saying we "SHOULD" take Von Miller. I like him, I think he has a chance to be a difference maker at a position we need. I like Moats, but I'm not sold on Merriman coming back healthy and staying healthy, nor am I sold on Batten due to the fact I've never seen him play. While I like Quinn, I haven't seen him play OLB, not sure if anyone has. I feel that Miller can excel at covering TEs due to his athleticism, purely speculation at this point obviously. Speculation is all that we have right now. My main focus in the debate of "to miller, or not to miller" is refuting that he can't be successful due to his size and strength. Ive seen countless people say that he can't stop the run, when he wasn't asked to stop the run jn college. He was asked to get after the QB. I feel he can and will get bigger and stronger and can become a force vs the run. Should we draft him? You're guess is as good as mine. I just don't like it when people post in absolute terms (not saying you do, but many others do), nothing is absolute at this point. Purely speculation.

 

 

I will need to find the article on this but I just read something about Miller that I DON'T like at all. Apparently Miller went through a 15 - 20 lb weight gain in a very short period of time. This to me screams of Maybin who played at 220 something, was supposedly 246 around his proday or the draft and now looks to be about 215.

 

I really hate to allege this but I started to think that Maybin was taking something to bulk up to get his big pay day in the draft. Now that he is off of whatever he is a weak little rag doll out there. If anyone can find the article, someone was making the comparison between Maybin and Miller and they said that Miller went through a similar increase in weight in a short period of time. Could be full of it though.

[DrDawkinstein]

Points well taken. I understand your view and see why you feel that way, but I don't recall ever saying we "SHOULD" take Von Miller. I like him, I think he has a chance to be a difference maker at a position we need. I like Moats, but I'm not sold on Merriman coming back healthy and staying healthy, nor am I sold on Batten due to the fact I've never seen him play. While I like Quinn, I haven't seen him play OLB, not sure if anyone has. I feel that Miller can excel at covering TEs due to his athleticism, purely speculation at this point obviously. Speculation is all that we have right now. My main focus in the debate of "to miller, or not to miller" is refuting that he can't be successful due to his size and strength. Ive seen countless people say that he can't stop the run, when he wasn't asked to stop the run jn college. He was asked to get after the QB. I feel he can and will get bigger and stronger and can become a force vs the run. Should we draft him? You're guess is as good as mine. I just don't like it when people post in absolute terms (not saying you do, but many others do), nothing is absolute at this point. Purely speculation.

 

Sure thing, I wasnt aiming all of that at you specifically, as much a refuting the James Harrison comparison I have seen made too often.

 

I agree with most of this post (as I believe I do most of your posts in general).

 

However, the only point I disagree on is that he was "never asked to stop the run in college". Yes he was. He was a OLB/DE. That's as much his job as it is to rush the passer. And even if he was supposed to be rushing the passer, when the Offense runs RIGHT AT YOU, as Nebraska did over and over, you have to make a play or get off the field. It's not that they ran by him as he was taking a route to the QB. They ran at him and he couldnt get off his blocks (made by a TE, btw).

 

After watching his play, I dont care if he was 275lbs, he cant stop the run and therefore should not be a #3 overall pick. In my opinion, of course.

[1billsfan]

I will need to find the article on this but I just read something about Miller that I DON'T like at all. Apparently Miller went through a 15 - 20 lb weight gain in a very short period of time. This to me screams of Maybin who played at 220 something, was supposedly 246 around his proday or the draft and now looks to be about 215.

 

I really hate to allege this but I started to think that Maybin was taking something to bulk up to get his big pay day in the draft. Now that he is off of whatever he is a weak little rag doll out there. If anyone can find the article, someone was making the comparison between Maybin and Miller and they said that Miller went through a similar increase in weight in a short period of time. Could be full of it though.

 

 

That would be post #75 of this thread.

[thebandit27]

I will need to find the article on this but I just read something about Miller that I DON'T like at all. Apparently Miller went through a 15 - 20 lb weight gain in a very short period of time. This to me screams of Maybin who played at 220 something, was supposedly 246 around his proday or the draft and now looks to be about 215.

 

I really hate to allege this but I started to think that Maybin was taking something to bulk up to get his big pay day in the draft. Now that he is off of whatever he is a weak little rag doll out there. If anyone can find the article, someone was making the comparison between Maybin and Miller and they said that Miller went through a similar increase in weight in a short period of time. Could be full of it though.

 

Maybin went from 227 to 252 in 6 weeks, Miller went from 237 to 246 in 6 weeks. Very different scenarios.

 

To put on 1-2 lbs of muscle per week isn't exactly the stuff of legends, especially at the age of 22, and even moreso when it's practically your job to train.

 

That article also disregards the fact that Maybin was brutal in the combine drills and all of a sudden had terrific numbers at his pro day, whereas Miller was terrific in both venues. I agree that it does kind of point to Maybin having been "enhanced" at his pro day.

 

The comparisons between Miller and Maybin remain--in my opinion--more than a little misguided.

Edited April 7, 2011 by thebandit27

[John from Riverside]

The crap you guys come up with....

 

"the little train that could"

"Rudy"

 

You guys quivel over a small amount of weight on a absolute physical freak that has been ultra productive in college for multiple years and respected analysts like Mike Maylock rave over......

 

LOL

[DrDawkinstein]

The crap you guys come up with....

 

"the little train that could"

"Rudy"

 

You guys quivel over a small amount of weight on a absolute physical freak that has been ultra productive in college for multiple years and respected analysts like Mike Maylock rave over......

 

LOL

 

The "Great Weight Debate" started in response to an article that was incorrect in it's assumption that Miller would be good because he was the same weight as Lawrence Taylor. It's been proven as an invalid conclusion. I'm over it.

 

Whether he is 237, 246, or 275, the tape on the kid doesnt show an NFL LB. It shows a fast kid who can speed rush off the edge. Thats it. He hasnt played consistently stout against the run. And he wasnt asked to cover, so who knows if he even can.

 

Bad pick at #3 overall, imo.

[John from Riverside]

- He was asked to cover in the Senior Bowl....and did a pretty good job of it

- I dont care about having an outside backer that makes "OOOOOO" hits....I want that guy to tackle....consistancy. You that is something that this team really lacks is good tacklers.

- While I am extremely impressed with the 17 sacks....the tackles behind the line of scrimmage are probably even more impressive? You know what would be a even more impressive stat for this kid but I haven't seen it? Pressures......he seems to be around the QB all the time even when he gets pushed upfield on his pass rush......

- If we are that concerned about having a thumper lets take a ILB in the second round

[Noma]

I'm good with this. Question? Who do these guys do multiple mock drafts? Possible answer: So they can all say they were "right"?

 

PTR

 

to make more money. if espn called kiper and said, how about 10 grand for a new mock. what do you have for us? and he replied, same as last week, wtf you think it changes daily?

 

so guys make calls, pretend they hear something, and make some bank. no one remembers april 29th what they said anyways. all they want to know is what they thought of their teams draft to reinforce what they already think.

[PDaDdy]

- He was asked to cover in the Senior Bowl....and did a pretty good job of it

- I dont care about having an outside backer that makes "OOOOOO" hits....I want that guy to tackle....consistancy. You that is something that this team really lacks is good tacklers.

- While I am extremely impressed with the 17 sacks....the tackles behind the line of scrimmage are probably even more impressive? You know what would be a even more impressive stat for this kid but I haven't seen it? Pressures......he seems to be around the QB all the time even when he gets pushed upfield on his pass rush......

- If we are that concerned about having a thumper lets take a ILB in the second round

 

Wow so he looked good in a class room setting against other seniors that didn't even include potentially the best players in the draft the juniors? Everybody is a big fan of saying don't look at the numbers and expert opinions look at the game tape. Since this guy isn't a one year wonder he should have PLENTY of game tape displaying his ability to cover and BY FAR most importantly defend the run which is also BY FAR our biggest problem.

 

It sounds like I am down on this kid but I'm really not. Heat of the argument and all. He could be a bust or he could be great. What I DO KNOW is that he doesn't address our biggest need which is defending the run. 8 200+ yard games. A pass rushing specialist, until someone shows me game tape otherwise, will stand un-utilized on the sidelines while we get gashed for 4.8 yards a pop 35.7 times a game.

Edited April 7, 2011 by PDaDdy

[1billsfan]

- He was asked to cover in the Senior Bowl....and did a pretty good job of it

- I dont care about having an outside backer that makes "OOOOOO" hits....I want that guy to tackle....consistancy. You that is something that this team really lacks is good tacklers.

- While I am extremely impressed with the 17 sacks....the tackles behind the line of scrimmage are probably even more impressive? You know what would be a even more impressive stat for this kid but I haven't seen it? Pressures......he seems to be around the QB all the time even when he gets pushed upfield on his pass rush......

- If we are that concerned about having a thumper lets take a ILB in the second round

 

 

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. We're picking #3 in the first round. With that pick, it's not asking too much for that guy to have the upside of being a perennial all pro and potential Hall of Famer.

 

Not just a consistent tackler or getting QB pressures. We're looking for a gamer. A guy that will not only give "OOOOOO" tackles but someone who will separate the ball from the QB and/or runningback.

 

This does not describe Von Miller. At his little size the best we probably ever get is a good to pretty good OLB.

[RTW2012]

This does not describe Von Miller. At his little size the best we probably ever get is a good to pretty good OLB.

 

Yes, and at best Green Bay will just get a pretty good OLB out of Matthews. After all, he was lighter than Miller going into his draft.

[John from Riverside]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. We're picking #3 in the first round. With that pick, it's not asking too much for that guy to have the upside of being a perennial all pro and potential Hall of Famer.

 

Not just a consistent tackler or getting QB pressures. We're looking for a gamer. A guy that will not only give "OOOOOO" tackles but someone who will separate the ball from the QB and/or runningback.

 

This does not describe Von Miller. At his little size the best we probably ever get is a good to pretty good OLB.

 

I am of the opinion that every time you post you hurt your arguements....while others that are against Von Miller actually make a realistic debate. You dont because your posts are ridiculous.

 

"not just a consistant tackler or getting QB pressures" Um.....SEVENTEEN SACKS AND TWENTY ONE BEHIND THE LINE TACKLES....okkkaaay

"a guy that will separate the ball from the QB or running back" PERHAPS YOU ARE MISSING HIS FORCED FUMBLES?

"little size" FOR THE LAST FRIGGEN TIME.....VON MILLER IS NOT SMALL THERE ARE OTHER OLB's IN THE NFL THAT ARE HIS SIZE...he is just smaller then Quinn....FOR CHRIST SAKE WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS CRAP

"Looking for a gamer" IS YOUR ONLY CRITERIA HERE SOMEONE WHO IS A GOOD RUN STOPPER?....Von Miller is a game changer...a guy you have to be accountable for.....was getting DOUBLE TEAMED in college.....MADE PLAYS

 

I am calling it right here right now......Von Miller will be a Pro Bowl OLB inside of TWO YEARS....he may well end up being the rookie defensive player of the year.

 

Wow so he looked good in a class room setting against other seniors that didn't even include potentially the best players in the draft the juniors? Everybody is a big fan of saying don't look at the numbers and expert opinions look at the game tape. Since this guy isn't a one year wonder he should have PLENTY of game tape displaying his ability to cover and BY FAR most importantly defend the run which is also BY FAR our biggest problem.

 

It sounds like I am down on this kid but I'm really not. Heat of the argument and all. He could be a bust or he could be great. What I DO KNOW is that he doesn't address our biggest need which is defending the run. 8 200+ yard games. A pass rushing specialist, until someone shows me game tape otherwise, will stand un-utilized on the sidelines while we get gashed for 4.8 yards a pop 35.7 times a game.

 

- Im not sure what you want PD? They didnt use Von as a primary run stopper in college he was a guy that made plays all over the field and that was kind of a defensive scheme thing.....but when he was given the opportunity to show it he did.....it isn't VON MILLER's fault that he had to wait till he had NFL level coaches using him to show it? As luck would have it they are also OUR coaches.

 

- I dont think you are down on Von Miller either....and make the most realistic arguements against him in my opinion. One player out of this draft is not going to address run stop issues....but keep in mind a. We drafted DL last year and those guys are going to play (Carrington is going to help in a big way here) and b. We do have several other draft selections in this draft.