ExiledInIllinois Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 See a Victicrat spends all that time typing that sob story (BTW have you seen her employee file? I don't know maybe you have). Someone like me says, well that sucks, but it was a hell of a ride I'm glad I don't work for those a-holes anymore. See the difference? I've lost several jobs over the years (never fired just laid off) and I always left thinking "excellent, the next job is going to be even better I know it!" I don't know, I'm just postive that way. Not trying to get into a pissing contest with you again... But you can cut the guy (and others) some slack once in a while. Doing that is not a sign of weakness. I know we ALL can be Richards. We all know what such great resolve you have. Why debase the ones that can't always think like you? "Victicrat" is really cutting somebody to the core. You never let up. Just as it is with you and me, I bite my lip with the half the crazy things (usually about lifestyle choices) you post about. This is OTW, not PPP. We can find a middle ground. Peace Chef... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Not trying to get into a pissing contest with you again... But you can cut the guy (and others) some slack once in a while. Doing that is not a sign of weakness. I know we ALL can be Richards. We all know what such great resolve you have. Why debase the ones that can't always think like you? "Victicrat" is really cutting somebody to the core. You never let up. Just as it is with you and me, I bite my lip with the half the crazy things (usually about lifestyle choices) you post about. This is OTW, not PPP. We can find a middle ground. Peace Chef... Cut him some slack? I'm just pointing out that people with that victim mentality really, really, I mean REALLY bug me. I didn't call him names or yell at him. If calling him a Victicrat cuts to his core he need to have a deeper core. There was a very highly respected talk show host in LA (Larry Elder) who coined the phrase. And I think it's a great word to describe people who tend to blame others for the troubles in their lives. I don't blame others. If something happens to me that may be caused by someone else I blame myself for either allowing them to hurt me or for me allowing myself to associate with a person that would hurt me. I can only control my actions and not those of others so I can't hold myself out as a victim. And I'll tell you, when you have that attitude how rarely you find yourself in bad situations. I'll take my attitude over the victim attitude all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Cut him some slack? I'm just pointing out that people with that victim mentality really, really, I mean REALLY bug me. I didn't call him names or yell at him. If calling him a Victicrat cuts to his core he need to have a deeper core. There was a very highly respected talk show host in LA (Larry Elder) who coined the phrase. And I think it's a great word to describe people who tend to blame others for the troubles in their lives. I don't blame others. If something happens to me that may be caused by someone else I blame myself for either allowing them to hurt me or for me allowing myself to associate with a person that would hurt me. I can only control my actions and not those of others so I can't hold myself out as a victim. And I'll tell you, when you have that attitude how rarely you find yourself in bad situations. I'll take my attitude over the victim attitude all day long. So, with your enlghtened way of thinking, the word "victim" is never valid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 So, with your enlghtened way of thinking, the word "victim" is never valid? When I'm referring to myself typically not. To the point of it driving my wife crazy. "You never place the blame on anyone else!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 When I'm referring to myself typically not. To the point of it driving my wife crazy. "You never place the blame on anyone else!" Yeah, but I wasn't referring to myself as a victim. I was referring to someone else being victimized. It seems like you can't see anything from anyone else's point of view. I am sure there is some snappy phrase for that too...not sure what it is. I understand what you are saying, and I don't deny that it is likely a healthy attitude to have, to a degree. But there are times, when people really do get screwed over. Your a big, tough guy (I assume), you can handle yourself. Great! You likely wouldn't find youreslf in the situation. The person I am referring to has adopted a fairly positive attitude about finding another place to work. But, in case you hadn't heard, finding a new job right now isn't as easy as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yeah, but I wasn't referring to myself as a victim. I was referring to someone else being victimized. It seems like you can't see anything from anyone else's point of view. I am sure there is some snappy phrase for that too...not sure what it is. I understand what you are saying, and I don't deny that it is likely a healthy attitude to have, to a degree. But there are times, when people really do get screwed over. Your a big, tough guy (I assume), you can handle yourself. Great! You likely wouldn't find youreslf in the situation. The person I am referring to has adopted a fairly positive attitude about finding another place to work. But, in case you hadn't heard, finding a new job right now isn't as easy as it used to be. Actually, Chef cries like a little girl when someone dishes it out to him. He makes Tim Graham appear thick skinned. He is trolling you, do not let him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Actually, Chef cries like a little girl when someone dishes it out to him. He makes Tim Graham appear thick skinned. He is trolling you, do not let him. Jesus, what the hell took you so long. Oh and by the way that day you went off your meds (or on them, not sure) when you were ripping on me big time I wasn't crying. I was doing an awful lot of laughing at you. Edited March 24, 2011 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Jesus, what the hell took you so long. I can't believe you are in the Hall of Fame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Jesus, what the hell took you so long. I was hoping you would develop a sense of compassion. A fruitless hope I know, but hey, one can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I was hoping you would develop a sense of compassion. A fruitless hope I know, but hey, one can dream. I have great compassion. But primarily for people I know, like and care about. But hey I appreciate you wanting me to be a better person. I'll try to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I have great compassion. But primarily for people I know, like and care about. But hey I appreciate you wanting me to be a better person. I'll try to work on it. So basically you and your wife. Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 See a Victicrat spends all that time typing that sob story (BTW have you seen her employee file? I don't know maybe you have). Someone like me says, well that sucks, but it was a hell of a ride I'm glad I don't work for those a-holes anymore. See the difference? I've lost several jobs over the years (never fired just laid off) and I always left thinking "excellent, the next job is going to be even better I know it!" I don't know, I'm just postive that way. thats bull! i think you're lying. getting fired or laid off for a pety reason... no one would be that positive. So, with your enlghtened way of thinking, the word "victim" is never valid? if someone steals his car, he will be excited, "now i can buy a better one. excellent!" right chef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 if someone steals his car, he will be excited, "now i can buy a better one. excellent!" right chef? Actually I would. So basically you and your wife. Excellent. Yup that's it. You nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yup that's it. You nailed it. And that is why I have no issues with !@#$ing with you. You dish it out all the time, but you have issues with taking it... I do actually have respect for you as you can be funny; but to me, you make yourself a target with your posting style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 And that is why I have no issues with !@#$ing with you. You dish it out all the time, but you have issues with taking it... I do actually have respect for you as you can be funny; but to me, you make yourself a target with your posting style. That post says I can't take it. Come on man, you can do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 That post says I can't take it. Come on man, you can do better than that. LOL I already did what I wanted, you are far too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 That post says I can't take it. Come on man, you can do better than that. you are good at highjacking an interesting threat about Detroit. Detroit thread > Chef in another pissing match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) And an arrogant priok spends just enough time, saying little, but just enough to flex his superiority over most everyone...and make himself feel all great in the process... Man you never fail... Yes, I am very familiar with her employee file. I maintened it for 8 years, as her boss. I read the reprimands that she received from her current boss. I may be subpoenaed at a hearing, on her behalf. There is a difference between being laid off, and fired. A big one. The result is the same, but the difference is it would be very difficult to use her job of the last 12 years as a reference. Don't you, or didn't you, at one time do hiring? Wouldn't it send a red flag to you, if someone can't use their most current boss as a reference? You are so busy turning every turd into sunshine and lollipops that you can't see the difference? It would be a much better world, I agree, if everyone had an ego the size of yours... Oh well, no matter... I guess the mistake the company made is they just should have laid her off outright. If finances dictate you get rid of a few people the you has to do it. No one is entitled to a job unless you own the company. Problem is that brings a entire new set of problems, pressures that the average employee knows nothing of. Taking you acquaintance situation at face value it looks like the company was weasely in its execution. Not necessaries wrong in its intent. Problem is most liberals(not saying you are) use something like this to indict the entire capitalist, free enterprise system or they cry union. Thing is they ignore all the great companies out there that treat their employees great. In our little company, we like to treat our employees as well as we can because its so hard to find good ones. I think this is universal in this country so generally speaking, it doesn't make sense that businesses treat employees unfairly. That is if they want to hold on to them. Edited March 24, 2011 by Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 LOL I already did what I wanted, you are far too easy. Glad I could make you day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Actually I would. Yup that's it. You nailed it. i could understand the buy a new car after a theft claim, (actually i expected you to say that), but getting fired or laid off for a pety reason for a long time worker and STILL BE POSITIVE.... i dont believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Glad I could make you day. That is your. You typo a lot, 3 martini lunches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) That is your. You typo a lot, 3 martini lunches? Four, it's been a good month. And thanks for pointing out my typos. I'll pay closer attention. Edited March 24, 2011 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Four, it's been a good month. And then you drive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 And then you drive... Fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Fast. wild and crazy too. not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Fast. That is what she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 That is what she said. lol. you are good at highjacking an interesting threat about Detroit. Detroit thread > Chef in another pissing match in his defense, at least he makes the site interesting. everyone agreeing on everything would probably get boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 I guess the mistake the company made is they just should have laid her off outright. If finances dictate you get rid of a few people the you has to do it. No one is entitled to a job unless you own the company. Problem is that brings a entire new set of problems, pressures that the average employee knows nothing of. Taking you acquaintance situation at face value it looks like the company was weasely in its execution. Not necessaries wrong in its intent. Problem is most liberals(not saying you are) use something like this to indict the entire capitalist, free enterprise system or they cry union. Thing is they ignore all the great companies out there that treat their employees great. In our little company, we like to treat our employees as well as we can because its so hard to find good ones. I think this is universal in this country so generally speaking, it doesn't make sense that businesses treat employees unfairly. That is if they want to hold on to them. Thank you for recognizing the distinction. Her company, btw, is the state of Texas. Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining, they had already announced that there would be layoffs at the end of May. They offered those laid off a 3 month severenc package. I think my subject was more than aware that she would have been a likely candidate for a lay-off. But what they did, and it is very transparent to me (remember I was management in this place) was come up with a list of people that they wanted to get rid of (all older, most, as it happens black or hisanic). Why pay my subject $13 an hour to man a cash register, when you can get a few work studies for a fraction of the cost? I get it. While I was still there, replacing people who left, with work-studies and volunteers was all the rage. Save money. I understand that. It sucks, but that is the way it goes. But why treat someone who has been a good, faithful employee that way, just to save a couple of thousand dollars? The severance packages weren't for the people who could least afford to be out of work, it was for the tenured, over-age sorority sisters who likely got hired in the first place, because the knew someone. By the way, I don't take any offense to being called a liberal, so no offense is taken. And I wasn't condemning the capitalist system, or crying "union". I believe that most companies, and even the state, would treat their employees well, if they can. But that is no excuse for just marginalizing people either. You don't want the "great companies" that treat their employees well to be ignored, but, you, and others, are more than willing to ignore examples when people aren't treated so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 monument to outsourcing, Wouldn't need outsourcing if screwturners weren't paid 50,000 a year. The UAW KILLED the American auto industry, like the USW did to steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Okay, this thread has run it's course. I'm shuttin' er down. Oh wait, I have no power to do that. Sorry, sometimes I think I am more important than I actually am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Thank you for recognizing the distinction. Her company, btw, is the state of Texas. Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining, they had already announced that there would be layoffs at the end of May. They offered those laid off a 3 month severenc package. I think my subject was more than aware that she would have been a likely candidate for a lay-off. But what they did, and it is very transparent to me (remember I was management in this place) was come up with a list of people that they wanted to get rid of (all older, most, as it happens black or hisanic). Why pay my subject $13 an hour to man a cash register, when you can get a few work studies for a fraction of the cost? I get it. While I was still there, replacing people who left, with work-studies and volunteers was all the rage. Save money. I understand that. It sucks, but that is the way it goes. But why treat someone who has been a good, faithful employee that way, just to save a couple of thousand dollars? The severance packages weren't for the people who could least afford to be out of work, it was for the tenured, over-age sorority sisters who likely got hired in the first place, because the knew someone. By the way, I don't take any offense to being called a liberal, so no offense is taken. And I wasn't condemning the capitalist system, or crying "union". I believe that most companies, and even the state, would treat their employees well, if they can. But that is no excuse for just marginalizing people either. You don't want the "great companies" that treat their employees well to be ignored, but, you, and others, are more than willing to ignore examples when people aren't treated so well. And after reading his post I also didn't really express myself well. I in no way was siding with the employers. I'm not sure if you even suggested that but I just wanted to get that out there. They handled it poorly. And when you're dealing with a at will state you have be realize that your job is alway tenuous. You lose your job, you get pissed, you get over it and you look for brighter pastures. And I was really going at you when it was Pete who was really blaming everything on "the man" so I really didn't mean to drag you into it. Damn I gotta hit the bar before I drive home at 85 miles an hour. Those four martinis appear to be wearing off. Okay, this thread has run it's course. I'm shuttin' er down. Oh wait, I have no power to do that. Sorry, sometimes I think I am more important than I actually am. Sometimes?? I can give you some lessons on how to improve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Wouldn't need outsourcing if screwturners weren't paid 50,000 a year. The UAW KILLED the American auto industry, like the USW did to steel. and globalization, fat pig CEO's, cheap world labor, NAFTA. and myopia had nothing to with Detroits death. It is all on UAW. Your arguments were so compelling, articulate, and thought provoking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) I guess the mistake the company made is they just should have laid her off outright. If finances dictate you get rid of a few people the you has to do it. No one is entitled to a job unless you own the company. Problem is that brings a entire new set of problems, pressures that the average employee knows nothing of. Taking you acquaintance situation at face value it looks like the company was weasely in its execution. Not necessaries wrong in its intent. Problem is most liberals(not saying you are) use something like this to indict the entire capitalist, free enterprise system or they cry union. Thing is they ignore all the great companies out there that treat their employees great. In our little company, we like to treat our employees as well as we can because its so hard to find good ones. I think this is universal in this country so generally speaking, it doesn't make sense that businesses treat employees unfairly. That is if they want to hold on to them. it may not make sense but it happens all the time. people lose their jobs over small dips in business or more expensive, older employees are terminated because of the high cost of their benefits (a problem that could be solved by universal health care btw) or people are made part time so no benefits are given. and then there are minimum wage jobs that pay no where near a living wage even to heads of households. there are plenty of "good" companies, big and small, that do these things regularly. i'm glad your small business is better than that. mine is too. but this is not typical and some people really are victims. some of the lost jobs during the recession were trimming of dead wood at an opportune time. i don't sympathize with those that weren't pulling their weight and no doubt lazy folks were and are out in the work force. i do find it interesting that more men lost jobs than women. some of this might be due to the fact that on average they're paid less then men for the same job (which is totally unjustified) but i think there's more to it than that. you won't be surprised to hear that i also proudly accept the label "liberal". it's not a dirty word. Edited March 24, 2011 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) and globalization, fat pig CEO's, cheap world labor, NAFTA. and myopia had nothing to with Detroits death. It is all on UAW. Your arguments were so compelling, articulate, and thought provoking Spare me. Labor cost is the number ONE reason for the failure of American industry. Are fatcat CEOs also to blame? Sure! For negotiating and tolerating unions, they should be excoriated. Lazy management. If I own a company and can manufacture a widget in China for 3 cents and it costs me 25 cents in the US, why on Earth would I lose money by manufacturing in the US? My old man worked for the Steel for 30 years. In that time, he witnessed tens of thousands of overpaid union laborers and almost as many white collar workers lose their jobs because the USW wouldn't concede on salary. The net effect? Beth Steel is no more. But I'll bet your answer is to tarriff foreign goods, forgetting the terrible effects of Hoot-Smalley during the Depression era. Edited March 24, 2011 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Okay, this thread has run it's course. I'm shuttin' er down. Oh wait, I have no power to do that. I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hedd Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Wow...these pictures are just amazing...almost like "Beneath The Planet of the Apes", excpet its' Detroint and not NYC...and there are no apes! Just kind sad and tragic...but kind of beautiful at the same time... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/23/detroit-decline_n_813696.html#218521 The website Fabulous Ruins of Detroit- http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm - has been around for about 15 years...there is no better site for witnessing the decline of one of America's disposable cities. I went every year-sometimes twice a year from 1988 to 2000 to Detroit to catch Yankee games or any other team since Tiger Stadium was the best place to see a Major league baseball game. Then the franchise went corporate and they built Comerica so there was no reason to go back. Still being the urban explorer I was at the time there is something to be said about the "sites"...beautiful in their decay. Truly amazing how rust belt cities are scoffed at here...they only made the world safe for democracy. But shucks I expect nothing less here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The website Fabulous Ruins of Detroit- http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm - has been around for about 15 years...there is no better site for witnessing the decline of one of America's disposable cities. I went every year-sometimes twice a year from 1988 to 2000 to Detroit to catch Yankee games or any other team since Tiger Stadium was the best place to see a Major league baseball game. Then the franchise went corporate and they built Comerica so there was no reason to go back. Still being the urban explorer I was at the time there is something to be said about the "sites"...beautiful in their decay. Truly amazing how rust belt cities are scoffed at here...they only made the world safe for democracy. But shucks I expect nothing less here. Not so much the cities themselves but the government and unions that squeezed the life out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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