Robert Quinn DE UNC, #1 overall pick

[thebandit27]

That is a pretty tough argument to buy. Von Miller weighs 35-40 pounds less, and Quinn has similar or possibly more speed. True Miller played in a 3-4, but it is doubtful that at ~235 lbs he would be able to play OLB in the NFL, he would probably play ILB in a 3-4. Also, plenty of great top round talent has come out of the ACC..Julius Peppers, Mario Williams...When Quinn was playing he showed very rare domination, not just against the pass, but against the run too. Miller got pushed around when he wasn't speed rushing, especially against the run. I can't emphasize this enough, not only does Quinn have rare talent, but its combined with rare athleticism and size...Something the Bills desperately need...

 

Many of the great 3-4 OLB's today were 4-3 DE's in college. Ware, Suggs, ect...

 

I know Quinn has great size, but playing 3-4 OLB is much more about the style of player than it is about size. Quinn, to me, looks like a prototype 4-3 DE, but I think he'd be miscast as a 3-4 OLB. While I'm not here to debate Miller's ability as an OLB in the NFL, keep in mind that 2 of the best in James Harrison and Elvis Dumervil are of very similar size to Miller (they're listed at 242 and 248, respectively, while Miller is listed at 243 on the NFL's combine page).

 

EDIT: Interestingly enough, the NFL combine page lists Quinn at 254 lbs...guess we'll have to see what he weighs in at in order to be sure.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/robert-quinn?id=2495485

 

Also, regarding Quinn, it's easier to look strong against the run when you've got the support of NFL talent like Austin, Sturdivant, and Carter playing alongside you in the front 7.

 

Like I said, I think he'll be a very good player, but he's at least as big a risk as Miller--a guy who's not only played OLB in a 3-4 before, but also was the most productive pass rusher in the nation over the last 2 seasons--at No. 3 overall.

 

Im not concerned with these NCAA regulations at all. Bottom line is this, the NCAA makes hundreds of millions of dollars off of these athletes yet excepts these guys to walk around dead broke all the time. As a college athlete, yes you get a free education and that is great, however football practice, meetings, functions, and games take up SOOO much of these guy's time. They should be paid something in my opinion. Of course I mean something small, and the same to every player. If these guys who mostly grew up poor, were given a few dollars so that they can live decent lives, then I think the whole money issue with college players would be cut down considerably. They arent even able to get part times jobs. Thats totally not right. Thats like saying "you have to pass all of your exams, but your not aloud to study". Its just not realistic. We only hear about 10 percent of the athletes who take money for something, the rest go under the radar.

 

P.S. If this guy runs a 4.38 at the combine he probably will go #1. The chances of that happening in my opinion are ZERO! He is simply too big and too tall

 

Again, it's not so much about what he did as it is the fact that he violated the rules knowingly. To me, that shows a disregard for rules, and it has to be taken into account.

 

I'm not saying you take a guy off your board for it, but it definitely needs to be considered.

 

Hal Urban had a great quote: "Obeying the rules, laws, and regulations is nothing more than showing consideration and respect for the rights of others. It's a form of honesty."

Edited February 24, 2011 by thebandit27

[coseybedaman]

The guy let a buddy pay for a plane ticket. Sometimes you have to look at the situation, and that is just ridiculous. Also, like I said, all of these players are breaking these rules. He happened to be an unlucky guy who got caught. So he has less character than the guy who DIDNT get caught? I dont think so

[dave mcbride]

As I imply above, I'd wait until you see his short shuttle and vertical leap numbers before passing judgment. I suspect that they'll be good.

[thebandit27]

The guy let a buddy pay for a plane ticket. Sometimes you have to look at the situation, and that is just ridiculous. Also, like I said, all of these players are breaking these rules. He happened to be an unlucky guy who got caught. So he has less character than the guy who DIDNT get caught? I dont think so

 

And it was against the rules. I know what you're saying, but I'm afraid that I disagree. You don't have to look at the situation--the guy took a benefit from an agent, plain and simple.

 

Plenty of players have refused them in the past--Courtney Brown and LaVar Arrington refused free suits while at Penn State, Eli Manning gave back an envelope of money to a booster while at Ole Miss; to say that "everybody's doing it" is not only inaccurate, it's a lame excuse.

 

It's just like performance enhancers: some guys take them, some guys don't. Do more guys take them than the general public knows about? Certainly, but it's not everyone, and it's probably not even the majority.

 

As I imply above, I'd wait until you see his short shuttle and vertical leap numbers before passing judgment. I suspect that they'll be good.

 

I agree that they'll be good, as those numbers are indicative of a guy that can rush the passer. In order for me to feel comfortable about him as a 3-4 OLB, I'd need to see him in agility drills. I'd want to see what his backpedal looks like, his fluidity as a stand-up athlete, his hip-turn, etc.

 

Like I've said, I think he'll be very good, I just see him as a 4-3 end...that's not a knock on him, just like saying that I see Von Miller exclusively as a 3-4 OLB.

[Turbosrrgood]

Quinn, to me, looks like a prototype 4-3 DE, but I think he'd be miscast as a 3-4 OLB.

 

While I'm not here to debate Miller's ability as an OLB in the NFL, keep in mind that 2 of the best in James Harrison and Elvis Dumervil are of very similar size to Miller (they're listed at 242 and 248, respectively, while Miller is listed at 243 on the NFL's combine page).

 

EDIT: Interestingly enough, the NFL combine page lists Quinn at 254 lbs...guess we'll have to see what he weighs in at in order to be sure.

 

Also, regarding Quinn, it's easier to look strong against the run when you've got the support of NFL talent like Austin, Sturdivant, and Carter playing alongside you in the front 7.

 

Like I said, I think he'll be a very good player, but he's at least as big a risk as Miller--a guy who's not only played OLB in a 3-4 before, but also was the most productive pass rusher in the nation over the last 2 seasons--at No. 3 overall.

 

 

It's pretty easy to twist numbers to try and make a point. Both Dumervil and Harrison are relatively short for their position (5-10-11 - 248 , 6-0 - 242) and are physical beasts that are not comparable to Miller (6-3 - 237). I am not saying Miller isn't good, but he just simply isn't that kind of player, he is mostly speed and quickness, not power. Also, Dumervil was listed at 257 before joining the NFL. I am focusing more on the type of player, the combination of power and speed, not just speed. Regardless of who played around him, Quinn dominated the line of scrimmage with speed and power, against run and pass. Miller has great speed, but often got shut down in plays where his speed rush didn't work, and especially against the run.

 

"Quinn, to me, looks like a prototype 4-3 DE, but I think he'd be miscast as a 3-4 OLB." Based on what? NFL scouts seem to think he'd make a fine 3-4 LB. You know more than them?

I guess I just don't understand how Quinn is a risk compared to the other possible picks. Actually to me he looks the safest out of all the possible #3 choices we are discussing. I'm sure Miller will be fine in the NFL, but the Bills don't need more small fast guys (the Dick Jauron guys). They need Big, strong, fast guys (Quinn)

Edited February 24, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[Thoner7]

I know Quinn has great size, but playing 3-4 OLB is much more about the style of player than it is about size. Quinn, to me, looks like a prototype 4-3 DE, but I think he'd be miscast as a 3-4 OLB. While I'm not here to debate Miller's ability as an OLB in the NFL, keep in mind that 2 of the best in James Harrison and Elvis Dumervil are of very similar size to Miller (they're listed at 242 and 248, respectively, while Miller is listed at 243 on the NFL's combine page).

 

EDIT: Interestingly enough, the NFL combine page lists Quinn at 254 lbs...guess we'll have to see what he weighs in at in order to be sure.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/robert-quinn?id=2495485

 

Also, regarding Quinn, it's easier to look strong against the run when you've got the support of NFL talent like Austin, Sturdivant, and Carter playing alongside you in the front 7.

 

Like I said, I think he'll be a very good player, but he's at least as big a risk as Miller--a guy who's not only played OLB in a 3-4 before, but also was the most productive pass rusher in the nation over the last 2 seasons--at No. 3 overall.

 

 

Don’t disregard Quinn’s individual play by saying he had other good players on his team. Other players don’t affect how he stands up an OT 1 on 1, and keeps outside leverage. It doesn’t affect how he tracks down a ball carrier with his backside pursuit (Miller doesn’t do that FYI) You absolutely can evaluate a players ability to defend the run in how ha wins or loses his 1 v 1 matchups. You can also see if he knows he responsibilities, and if he plays good team defense regardless of how the rest of his team plays.

 

And I completely disagree with Miller. Most everyone has already admitted he is a liability against the run when he has to hold up at the point of attack. So right there he is only a pass rusher, a 3rd down player. And that’s assuming you think he can rush the passer. . I think it’s so crazy-obvious that he will not generate a pass rush in the NFL (whether your agree or not is the argument I guess). His approach to getting the the QB is flawed for the NFL, and time and time again its been proven not to work. Even just watching the highlights of both players you can see it. Quinn can engage the OT, generate a push, bench him off to disengage, then get to the QB. Miller is screwed if he engages the OT. The OT swallows him up and tosses him around like a wet noodle. If Miller doesn’t get a quick jump off the ball and cant run past the OT clean, he isn’t getting pressure. That’s what Maybin did in college too – and look how good he is now. Aaron Miller and Von Maybin are extremely similar pass rushers, and if we take Aaron Miller to be a 3-4 pass rusher, then we aren’t getting a pass rusher.

 

I’m sorry but there are 7 front 7 defenders that could go at 3 and wouldn’t be too much of a reach according to the experts (Fariley, Dareus, Bowers, Watt, C Jordan, Quinn and Miller). Im sure that every single one of them will be good, but Von Maybin is going to be the one that isn’t, and I just freaking know that’s who we are going to take. Then Quinn will go on to make the PB his rookie year and I will just freaking lose it. The only player these idiots will take over Maybin 2 is Peterson and he also just happens to be the 2nd most over rated player out there. I am so tired of this C rate FO I am going mad. The sooner Ralph moves on and a new Owner moves the team or goes Pegula on the FO the better.

 

Sorry for the rant.

[Turbosrrgood]

Don’t disregard Quinn’s individual play by saying he had other good players on his team. Other players don’t affect how he stands up an OT 1 on 1, and keeps outside leverage. It doesn’t affect how he tracks down a ball carrier with his backside pursuit (Miller doesn’t do that FYI) You absolutely can evaluate a players ability to defend the run in how ha wins or loses his 1 v 1 matchups. You can also see if he knows he responsibilities, and if he plays good team defense regardless of how the rest of his team plays.

 

And I completely disagree with Miller. Most everyone has already admitted he is a liability against the run when he has to hold up at the point of attack. So right there he is only a pass rusher, a 3rd down player. And that’s assuming you think he can rush the passer. . I think it’s so crazy-obvious that he will not generate a pass rush in the NFL (whether your agree or not is the argument I guess). His approach to getting the the QB is flawed for the NFL, and time and time again its been proven not to work. Even just watching the highlights of both players you can see it. Quinn can engage the OT, generate a push, bench him off to disengage, then get to the QB. Miller is screwed if he engages the OT. The OT swallows him up and tosses him around like a wet noodle. If Miller doesn’t get a quick jump off the ball and cant run past the OT clean, he isn’t getting pressure. That’s what Maybin did in college too – and look how good he is now. Aaron Miller and Von Maybin are extremely similar pass rushers, and if we take Aaron Miller to be a 3-4 pass rusher, then we aren’t getting a pass rusher.

 

I’m sorry but there are 7 front 7 defenders that could go at 3 and wouldn’t be too much of a reach according to the experts (Fariley, Dareus, Bowers, Watt, C Jordan, Quinn and Miller). Im sure that every single one of them will be good, but Von Maybin is going to be the one that isn’t, and I just freaking know that’s who we are going to take. Then Quinn will go on to make the PB his rookie year and I will just freaking lose it. The only player these idiots will take over Maybin 2 is Peterson and he also just happens to be the 2nd most over rated player out there. I am so tired of this C rate FO I am going mad. The sooner Ralph moves on and a new Owner moves the team or goes Pegula on the FO the better.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

 

Haha, I think that is a common fear. I won't go as far as to say VM won't succeed in the NFL, it's just not not who the Bills need defensively right now. We need a 4 down, powerful, athletic, productive player that is going to make plays against the run and the pass.

[NoSaint]

My understanding is that the shuttle drill is far more important for assessing DEs than the 40. Defensive ends don't run 40 yards unless something really bad or - more rarely - really good (turnover return) is happening.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2010/introducing-sackseer

 

Maybin's short shuttle time was very average (4.38) and his vertical leap was 38 inches.

 

I advise focusing on these things rather than the 40 time, which ultimately doesn't mean much.

 

EDIT: Schobel had a blistering 4.03 time in the short shuttle. Terrell Suggs, who had a slow 40 time, ran a very strong 4.14 in the shuttle. He's turned out OK.

 

Maybin was awful at the combine. He had the extra weight on him. Ran like a 4.8 40. When you look at the shuttle, cones, 40, jump... Anything measuring speed and explosion - he was on the outside looking in when compared to previous successful picks.

[Thoner7]

Haha, I think that is a common fear. I won't go as far as to say VM won't succeed in the NFL, it's just not not who the Bills need defensively right now. We need a 4 down, powerful, athletic, productive player that is going to make plays against the run and the pass.

 

I just did. As far as rushing the passer goes anyway. I think he could make a very solid 4-3 Will though. But I doubt thats what he is drafted to do, and will thus be a bust.

[dave mcbride]

Maybin was awful at the combine. He had the extra weight on him. Ran like a 4.8 40. When you look at the shuttle, cones, 40, jump... Anything measuring speed and explosion - he was on the outside looking in when compared to previous successful picks.

That was my point, although I think that the 40 time for a guy like Maybin is pretty much irrelevant. DEs don't run 40 yards. His vertical wasn't too shabby, however (38"). Not spectacular, but not awful.

Edited February 24, 2011 by dave mcbride

[Turbosrrgood]

I just did. As far as rushing the passer goes anyway. I think he could make a very solid 4-3 Will though. But I doubt thats what he is drafted to do, and will thus be a bust.

 

I'm not arguing with you...I don't want VM either. Quinn looks the real deal. I might even be ok with taking a risk on Newton.

[thebandit27]

It's pretty easy to twist numbers to try and make a point. Both Dumervil and Harrison are relatively short for their position (5-10-11 - 248 , 6-0 - 242) and are physical beasts that are not comparable to Miller (6-3 - 237). I am not saying Miller isn't good, but he just simply isn't that kind of player, he is mostly speed and quickness, not power. Also, Dumervil was listed at 257 before joining the NFL. I am focusing more on the type of player, the combination of power and speed, not just speed. Regardless of who played around him, Quinn dominated the line of scrimmage with speed and power, against run and pass. Miller has great speed, but often got shut down in plays where his speed rush didn't work, and especially against the run.

 

"Quinn, to me, looks like a prototype 4-3 DE, but I think he'd be miscast as a 3-4 OLB." Based on what? NFL scouts seem to think he'd make a fine 3-4 LB. You know more than them?

I guess I just don't understand how Quinn is a risk compared to the other possible picks. Actually to me he looks the safest out of all the possible #3 choices we are discussing. I'm sure Miller will be fine in the NFL, but the Bills don't need more small fast guys (the Dick Jauron guys). They need Big, strong, fast guys (Quinn)

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on their playing styles, as I don't see the same dominance from Quinn against the run as you do. In fact, from reading up profiles on Quinn (since I haven't seen him play in over a year), it looks like run defense is one of the concerns; I cite:

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/robert-quinn?id=2495485#tabs:tab-analysis

 

As for whether or not he can play 3-4 OLB, I haven't seen many analysts say that Quinn belongs there (if you have, please show me, as I'd be interested in reading their justification). Most recently (in a thread that was linked to on this board), I saw Mayock say that Quinn was better suited to play in a 4-3, which is how I've always felt; it's long, but check it out:

 

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/mike-mayocks-thoughts-on-combine/

 

And no, I never claimed to know more than anyone else, but unless I'm mistaken, my opinion on the subject isn't taboo.

 

Regarding how he's a risk, if you feel comfortable taking a player who's first pre-season snap will be his down of competitive football in 19 months, then I'm afraid we fundamentally disagree on the definition of "risk". Also, see my previous post for a list of other reasons I think he's a risk.

 

Don’t disregard Quinn’s individual play by saying he had other good players on his team. Other players don’t affect how he stands up an OT 1 on 1, and keeps outside leverage. It doesn’t affect how he tracks down a ball carrier with his backside pursuit (Miller doesn’t do that FYI) You absolutely can evaluate a players ability to defend the run in how ha wins or loses his 1 v 1 matchups. You can also see if he knows he responsibilities, and if he plays good team defense regardless of how the rest of his team plays.

 

And I completely disagree with Miller. Most everyone has already admitted he is a liability against the run when he has to hold up at the point of attack. So right there he is only a pass rusher, a 3rd down player. And that’s assuming you think he can rush the passer. . I think it’s so crazy-obvious that he will not generate a pass rush in the NFL (whether your agree or not is the argument I guess). His approach to getting the the QB is flawed for the NFL, and time and time again its been proven not to work. Even just watching the highlights of both players you can see it. Quinn can engage the OT, generate a push, bench him off to disengage, then get to the QB. Miller is screwed if he engages the OT. The OT swallows him up and tosses him around like a wet noodle. If Miller doesn’t get a quick jump off the ball and cant run past the OT clean, he isn’t getting pressure. That’s what Maybin did in college too – and look how good he is now. Aaron Miller and Von Maybin are extremely similar pass rushers, and if we take Aaron Miller to be a 3-4 pass rusher, then we aren’t getting a pass rusher.

 

I’m sorry but there are 7 front 7 defenders that could go at 3 and wouldn’t be too much of a reach according to the experts (Fariley, Dareus, Bowers, Watt, C Jordan, Quinn and Miller). Im sure that every single one of them will be good, but Von Maybin is going to be the one that isn’t, and I just freaking know that’s who we are going to take. Then Quinn will go on to make the PB his rookie year and I will just freaking lose it. The only player these idiots will take over Maybin 2 is Peterson and he also just happens to be the 2nd most over rated player out there. I am so tired of this C rate FO I am going mad. The sooner Ralph moves on and a new Owner moves the team or goes Pegula on the FO the better.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

First off, I didn't "disregard" anything. Not even close.

 

In fact, I started every post that concerns Quinn by saying "make no mistake, I think Quinn will be good".

 

Secondly, I already told you I will not debate Miller's NFL potential (or anything else, for that matter) with you until you learn not to speak in absolutes, as though your opinion should be accepted as fact, which you clearly are either unwilling or unable to do (see the bolded above).

 

Haha, I think that is a common fear. I won't go as far as to say VM won't succeed in the NFL, it's just not not who the Bills need defensively right now. We need a 4 down, powerful, athletic, productive player that is going to make plays against the run and the pass.

 

Which makes you someone with whom a real discussion can actually take place.

 

Haha, I think that is a common fear. I won't go as far as to say VM won't succeed in the NFL, it's just not not who the Bills need defensively right now. We need a 4 down, powerful, athletic, productive player that is going to make plays against the run and the pass.

 

Let me ask you this: if Buffalo selects a player at No. 3 overall that proves to be a great defender, a game changer, guy that other teams have to account for every time he's on the field, will you care if his name is Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Patrick Peterson, or Joe Blow? I know I won't.

[Turbosrrgood]

Let me ask you this: if Buffalo selects a player at No. 3 overall that proves to be a great defender, a game changer, guy that other teams have to account for every time he's on the field, will you care if his name is Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Patrick Peterson, or Joe Blow? I know I won't.

 

No, if we draft Von Miller, or some no name loser, and he ends up being a super star I would be thrilled regardless of who it is. But since we don't know what is going to happen, we can only offer our opinions on who WE think will be the best player for the Bills. As far as the defenders go, IMO it's Quinn. I even think he's a safer pick then Fairly. I am not at all concerned about Quinn not playing last year, because he was so dominant in every way and its not like it was due to injury. It is quite possible that Quinn won't even be there for us to take. If other people think differently I'm open to their thoughts, since none of us will be the ones deciding anyway.

 

 

I won't respond to the other stuff because it's clear you won't allow an opinion that differs from yours, creating and endless string of replies. It seems like you are trying to force people to agree with you, but that's not how opinion works...

Edited February 24, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[thebandit27]

I won't respond to the other stuff because it's clear you see things only in a way which supports your initial point, while conveniently disregarding other facts and opinions. It seems like you are trying to force people to agree with you, but that's not how opinion works...

 

I'm extremely confused as to what part of my response gives you that notion:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on their playing styles, as I don't see the same dominance from Quinn against the run as you do. In fact, from reading up profiles on Quinn (since I haven't seen him play in over a year), it looks like run defense is one of the concerns; I cite:

 

http://www.nfl.com/c...bs:tab-analysis

 

As for whether or not he can play 3-4 OLB, I haven't seen many analysts say that Quinn belongs there (if you have, please show me, as I'd be interested in reading their justification). Most recently (in a thread that was linked to on this board), I saw Mayock say that Quinn was better suited to play in a 4-3, which is how I've always felt; it's long, but check it out:

 

http://fifthdown.blo...hts-on-combine/

 

And no, I never claimed to know more than anyone else, but unless I'm mistaken, my opinion on the subject isn't taboo.

 

Regarding how he's a risk, if you feel comfortable taking a player who's first pre-season snap will be his down of competitive football in 19 months, then I'm afraid we fundamentally disagree on the definition of "risk". Also, see my previous post for a list of other reasons I think he's a risk.

 

I expressed a different opinion, and mentioned that I'd be interested in reading the opinions of those analysts that you said believed Quinn would be a good fit as a 3-4 OLB (which you apparently aren't interested in providing as backup to your assertion). How is that trying to force you to agree? Perhaps it was the part where I said "we'll have to agree to disagree", man, that was really forceful of me. I'm pretty sure that--in my last post--I also complimented your willingness to engage in a real discussion, but apparently that was taken as me trying to force my opinion on you.

 

You told me you didn't understand why I felt Quinn was a risk, so I explained myself...too forceful? Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be. I suppose next time I'll ignore your request for an explanation; please don't consider me rude if I do so.

Edited February 24, 2011 by thebandit27

[Turbosrrgood]

I'm extremely confused as to what part of my response gives you that notion:

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on their playing styles, as I don't see the same dominance from Quinn against the run as you do. In fact, from reading up profiles on Quinn (since I haven't seen him play in over a year), it looks like run defense is one of the concerns; I cite:

 

http://www.nfl.com/c...bs:tab-analysis

 

As for whether or not he can play 3-4 OLB, I haven't seen many analysts say that Quinn belongs there (if you have, please show me, as I'd be interested in reading their justification). Most recently (in a thread that was linked to on this board), I saw Mayock say that Quinn was better suited to play in a 4-3, which is how I've always felt; it's long, but check it out:

 

http://fifthdown.blo...hts-on-combine/

 

And no, I never claimed to know more than anyone else, but unless I'm mistaken, my opinion on the subject isn't taboo.

 

Regarding how he's a risk, if you feel comfortable taking a player who's first pre-season snap will be his down of competitive football in 19 months, then I'm afraid we fundamentally disagree on the definition of "risk". Also, see my previous post for a list of other reasons I think he's a risk.

 

I expressed a different opinion, and mentioned that I'd be interested in reading the opinions of those analysts that you said believed Quinn would be a good fit as a 3-4 OLB (which you apparently aren't interested in providing as backup to your assertion). How is that trying to force you to agree? Perhaps it was the part where I said "we'll have to agree to disagree", man, that was really forceful of me. I'm pretty sure that--in my last post--I also complimented your willingness to engage in a real discussion, but apparently that was taken as me trying to force my opinion on you.

 

You told me you didn't understand why I felt Quinn was a risk, so I explained myself...too forceful? Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be. I suppose next time I'll ignore your request for an explanation; please don't consider me rude if I do so.

 

Here, I'll bite. I've attached a few articles that support my OPINION that Quinn will make a great 3-4 LB. I won't link every mock draft I've looked at, but most have him going to a 3-4 team.

 

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2012-Big-Board/Robert-Quinn.html

 

http://redskinsdraft.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/robert-quinn/

 

My point is, this is all opinion until he actually plays in the NFL. We can find articles all day long that support different opinions, you have responded to almost every post in this thread disagreeing with them. I get it, you don't wan't Quinn at No 3. Some of us do...

[WickedGame]

I'm down in North Carolina, and trust me, Quinn is a beast. Even with a year off from football, I'd take him at 3. I'm not sure 3-4 OLB is our biggest need, but Quinn would TERRORIZE opposing quarterbacks.

 

The size, the strength, the speed...yeah, yeah. Look at his closing power. If he's within an arm's length of the quarterback, he closes the deal. He doesn't generate pressures or QB hurries...he generates sacks. He's decent against the run, too...has a knack for finding the ball carrier. Not a run-stuffer, per se, but good in pursuit. His weakness is probably dropping into coverage. He's a better player than Von Miller by a mile and a half.

[Thoner7]

First off, I didn't "disregard" anything. Not even close.

 

In fact, I started every post that concerns Quinn by saying "make no mistake, I think Quinn will be good".

 

Secondly, I already told you I will not debate Miller's NFL potential (or anything else, for that matter) with you until you learn not to speak in absolutes, as though your opinion should be accepted as fact, which you clearly are either unwilling or unable to do (see the bolded above).

 

 

 

Let me ask you this: if Buffalo selects a player at No. 3 overall that proves to be a great defender, a game changer, guy that other teams have to account for every time he's on the field, will you care if his name is Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Patrick Peterson, or Joe Blow? I know I won't.

 

You seemed to disregard him with this statement:

"Also, regarding Quinn, it's easier to look strong against the run when you've got the support of NFL talent like Austin, Sturdivant, and Carter playing alongside you in the front 7."

 

 

The words of a man who has no confidence in himself, or his own opinion. See the Bolded above.

 

O and the Bills will not be getting " a great defender, a game changer, guy that other teams have to account for every time he's on the field" if they take Von Miller.

[thebandit27]

Here, I'll bite. I've attached a few articles that support my OPINION that Quinn will make a great 3-4 LB. I won't link every mock draft I've looked at, but most have him going to a 3-4 team.

 

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2012-Big-Board/Robert-Quinn.html

 

http://redskinsdraft.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/robert-quinn/

 

My point is, this is all opinion until he actually plays in the NFL. We can find articles all day long that support different opinions, you have responded to almost every post in this thread disagreeing with them. I get it, you don't wan't Quinn at No 3. Some of us do...

 

Thanks for posting that, it was an interesting read.

 

I must pick a bone with the bolded statement, however, as I have a mere 6 posts in this thread (7 if you count this one) in comparison to your 9. I initially posted my opinion (granted, it was two separate posts because I forgot to include my statement about his NCAA violation); the rest of my posts were responses to people who responded to me. I just assumed that the folks quoting my post with counterpoints were interested in engaging in a conversation. If that's not correct, I apologize.

 

For the record, I actually never said I didn't want Quinn at No. 3, I just said that I would consider him a bigger risk than other pass rushers (like Miller) who would play the 3-4 OLB position.

[thebandit27]

You seemed to disregard him with this statement:

"Also, regarding Quinn, it's easier to look strong against the run when you've got the support of NFL talent like Austin, Sturdivant, and Carter playing alongside you in the front 7."

 

 

The words of a man who has no confidence in himself, or his own opinion. See the Bolded above.

 

O and the Bills will not be getting " a great defender, a game changer, guy that other teams have to account for every time he's on the field" if they take Von Miller.

 

If you choose to see my statement as "disregarding" Quinn (despite my multiple statements that I think he'll be a good player), there's nothing I can do about that. Here, for the 4th time in this thread, I'll say it: I think Quinn will be a good player. I simply said that I didn't see anything particularly strong from Quinn in the run defense department, and that I think UNC's stellar 2009 rush defense (10th in the nation at less than 96 ypg) was attributable more to the quality of talent on defense as a whole.

 

As for my decision not to further engage you in debate, when you go so far as to say that it's proven impossible for a guy to succeed in the NFL in the role he played so well in college, I see no purpose in presenting my argument to you beyond that which I already have (I once again cite the bolded above, which is you stating your opinion as an absolute, as though it's a forgone conclusion). Why should I bother? If you want to see my level on confidence in my argument, go back to the thread where we had the original debate. If you discern from that discussion that I lack confidence in my point, then once again, I'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited February 24, 2011 by thebandit27

[Turbosrrgood]

Well this was a good thread, but now its just simply arguing about arguing...on to the next...

[thebandit27]

Well this was a good thread, but now its just simply arguing about arguing...on to the next...

 

If responding to others' posts--more specifcally those that depict a willingness to engage in a discussion--ruins a thread, then I guess I'm a thread-wrecking fool.

 

Maybe I'll just stay out of the threads that involve opinion altogether...though I suppose I wouldn't have much use for the board then.

[RyanC883]

Would love to see the Bills take Quinn at #3. A year away from football should not scare you as long as he has been working out. Vick was out for several years, and TB WR Mike Williams also basically missed a year and had a great rookie year.

 

Take Quinn in 1st Round, then grab Romeous from Pitt in a later round. Those two will be studs for years to come. The QB class is deep, i'd take any of the following: Locker, Ponder, Dalton; all of whom should be available after Rd. 1.

Edited February 24, 2011 by RyanC883

[NoSaint]

Would love to see the Bills take Quinn at #3. A year away from football should not scare you as long as he has been working out. Vick was out for several years, and TB WR Mike Williams also basically missed a year and had a great rookie year.

 

Take Quinn in 1st Round, then grab Romeous from Pitt in a later round. Those two will be studs for years to come. The QB class is deep, i'd take any of the following: Locker, Ponder, Dalton; all of whom should be available after Rd. 1.

 

 

if he stayed healthy, its a year less of hitting, injuries etc.... which isnt a terrible thing. it all depends how he spent that time though. he could have trained with guys that know what they are doing etc. which isnt a substitute for playing time, but isnt as bad as the guy that was lazy and did just enough to get bye and not look terrible. ie. he could have still grown as a player but without getting a year of head on collisions and chop blocks. id take his year off over sam bradfords "year off."

[thebandit27]

if he stayed healthy, its a year less of hitting, injuries etc.... which isnt a terrible thing. it all depends how he spent that time though. he could have trained with guys that know what they are doing etc. which isnt a substitute for playing time, but isnt as bad as the guy that was lazy and did just enough to get bye and not look terrible. ie. he could have still grown as a player but without getting a year of head on collisions and chop blocks. id take his year off over sam bradfords "year off."

 

All things being equal, you're right, it could actually be a good thing. I guess I have the same issue with Quinn as I do guys like Bowers and Fairley, which is that I'd like to have seen more than 1 good season. In my mind, there's something to be said for producing consistently from year to year; it's gotta make a GM feel more comfortable than if the same player had only 1 solid year.

 

It's why guys like Dareus, A.J. Green, Von Miller, and the two CBs (Peterson and Amukamara) strike me as safer picks than the more heralded athletes like Quinn, Bowers, Fairley, and Newton.

 

But thems are the breaks I suppose...guess that's why guys like Buddy Nix get paid to do what they do.

Edited February 24, 2011 by thebandit27

[Rob's House]

The incessant moralizing over every guy who wasn't a boyscout his whole life makes me want to eat my brain. Seems a lot of guys here subscribe to the Tavis Smiley theory of mirrored equality where murder and stealing a bag of chips are equal because they're both knowingly breaking the rules. Breaking it down to another level of discernment breaks our comforting illusion of certainty that we futilely and pathetically cling to for a false sense of comfort.

[3rdand12]

it might be hard for us to mess this one up. There is so much talent when #3 is called up.

I'm a Dareus fan myself.

Edited February 25, 2011 by 3rdand12

[NoSaint]

it might be hard for us to mess this one up. There is so much talent when #3 is called up.

I'm a Dareus fan myself.

 

My fear is that even "can't miss" guys are like 50-50. Even if we pick a "stud" in 2-3 years we might regret it.

[3rdand12]

I know. We fans are under a huge amount of pressure right now to get this off season done right.

[thebandit27]

The incessant moralizing over every guy who wasn't a boyscout his whole life makes me want to eat my brain. Seems a lot of guys here subscribe to the Tavis Smiley theory of mirrored equality where murder and stealing a bag of chips are equal because they're both knowingly breaking the rules. Breaking it down to another level of discernment breaks our comforting illusion of certainty that we futilely and pathetically cling to for a false sense of comfort.

 

I'm hardly intending to make that argument. All I was trying to say is that a team needs to consider whether or not Quinn's lack of judgement in his NCAA rules violation is an indication that he could be a potential rule violator on the next level.

 

As for your subsequent social commentary, well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion...

[Rob's House]

I'm hardly intending to make that argument. All I was trying to say is that a team needs to consider whether or not Quinn's lack of judgement in his NCAA rules violation is an indication that he could be a potential rule violator on the next level.

 

As for your subsequent social commentary, well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion...

It wasn't specifically directed at you or particular to this thread, although I think I did use your words, but more in response to an attitude that rears it's head with great regularity.

 

As for the commentary, everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Rob's House

[thebandit27]

It wasn't specifically directed at you or particular to this thread, although I think I did use your words, but more in response to an attitude that rears it's head with great regularity.

 

Fair enough. For the record, I do agree that a guy with say, for example, a domestic battery or armed robbery charge should be of much greater concern than a guy with an NCAA rules violation. As in, the former you might remove from your board completely, the latter you might drop down your board a few slots if you felt it was a precursor to future incidents.

 

As to the commentary, everyone is entitled to my opinion.

 

LOL