Let the speculaiton begin - Cam Newton

[Guest three3]

This.

 

not really. you want to see how players perform under the ultimate collegiate pressure, the brightest spotlight. that's what matters. does he crumble under pressure or step up and play his best game when all the chips are down. cam did neither.

[GG]

.... owner Ralph Wilson will make the final call. If Wilson demands a quarterback, then the Bills will draft a quarterback.....

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[ajzepp]

One criticism I heard about Newton on my local sports radio banter yesterday was that his offense at Auburn only requires him to make two reads prior to the snap. There was discussion that he may find it overwhelming to try and read NFL defenses and how this may be a huge factor in his readiness and/or potential.

Edited January 14, 2011 by ajzepp

[RuntheDamnBall]

Not sure if you are thinking of Terrell Pryor or something, but Newton is NOT a run first QB. In the SEC Championship alone, he passed for 335 yard and threw for 4 TDs and 0INTs. He put up multiple games of high passing numbers this season.

 

In the National Championship Game, the Buckeyes did their best at shutting him down as a running attack and forced him to hand off and pass, and Auburn won the game.

 

Just because he CAN run, and was VERY good at it, and Auburn called a lot of running plays to Cam, and he is black, does NOT mean he is a "Run-First" QB.

 

He has the arm and mechanics to make all of the throws. To that point, he could stand to improve his accuracy a little But thats about it.

Would it help you if I said "runs that often" instead of "run first"?

 

Also, look dude, it has NOTHING to do with him being black. I loved Randall Cunningham and hated Doug Flutie; both were QBs who utilized the run threat well. It just doesn't fly as well in today's NFL, and I DO see a guy who's had much success running in college looking to see if he can escape the typical rookie jams with his feet. It could end disastrously if the way he carried himself after getting blasted against the Ducks is any indication.

[DrDawkinstein]

not really. you want to see how players perform under the ultimate collegiate pressure, the brightest spotlight. that's what matters. does he crumble under pressure or step up and play his best game when all the chips are down. cam did neither.

 

No, its incredibly short-sighted, lazy, and down right ignorant to try to judge a player based ONLY on one game. No matter the importance of that game.

 

If you want to make it a part of the entire package of research, fine.

 

My point is that there are a large number of posters who only saw Newton once this year in that Championship game, and are forming their entire opinion off of it.

[CosmicBills]

I have no problem if Gailey, Nix and the scouts feel that Newton, Gabbert or Mallett are worth using the #3 pick on. I only have a problem with it, if Ralph demands that a QB be drafted at #3 regardless of how their board looks ...

Agree 100%

[DrDawkinstein]

Would it help you if I said "runs that often" instead of "run first"?

 

Also, look dude, it has NOTHING to do with him being black. I loved Randall Cunningham and hated Doug Flutie; both were QBs who utilized the run threat well. It just doesn't fly as well in today's NFL, and I DO see a guy who's had much success running in college looking to see if he can escape the typical rookie jams with his feet. It could end disastrously if the way he carried himself after getting blasted against the Ducks is any indication.

 

 

I dont know. I watched almost every game this year and I never saw him as a guy who tucks it and runs at teh first sight of pressure. Ive seen him scramble to make throughs. Ive seen him use his big body and strength to stand in the pocket and make throws. Ive also seen him run the ball a lot on CALLED RUNNING plays. Most of the highlights youve seen of him running the ball have been called QB keepers. Has nothing to do with his pocket-passing game. The kid can hang in there and throw, and has done so often.

 

Wasnt trying to jump your stuff with the black thing. But I think that a lot of people see a black QB who can run the ball well and just ASSUME he must take off if his first WR is covered, like Michael Vick used to. And thats just not the case.

[Kelly the Dog]

How is it that Newton seemingly gets blame for being a great runner? As a college QB, he does two things: Runs the plays that are called and makes the most of each play. He's not at all a run first QB. His coach ran the offense around his talents, which are both as a passer and a runner. He doesn't at all look to run first when he drops back to pass, nor does he often take off too quickly out of the pocket. He always looks to pass first on pass plays that are called. he passes more than he runs. It's not his fault he's huge and can run and his coach decided the best way to win all 14 games is to have him run and pass. He was the highest rated passer in the country (not that this at all translates to the NFL, it doesn't, but it does dispel the myth he's a run first QB).

[RuntheDamnBall]

With regards to Kellen Moore... that would be a complete waste of a pick as I bet the kid goes undrafted. His skill set is MINIMAL for what you need to make it in the league. He's no Flutie either.

You could argue the same of Fitzy, or Chad Pennington, or Tom Brady in 2000, or Matt Cassell at the time of his drafting, or plenty of other QBs who have been unheralded. Ryan Leaf's skill set was MAXIMAL for what you need to make it in this league, until you examined his head.

 

Moore is by all accounts a guy who anticipates what the coaches see on the field. He consumes game film. He has worked hard his entire life to correct notions formed by looking at his measurables. He's led a perennial winner at Boise St and helped them remain relevant in the national football conversation. He's started for three years in cold weather and has really improved. He's crazy-accurate.

 

Do I think he's worth a first or even a second-rounder? No. But in R3-4 you're looking at good projects. The Bills have two R4 picks. If they haven't gotten a QB by then, Moore's there, and they don't take him, I'll throw a brick at my TV if they let him pass by.

[BuffaloWings]

I have no problem if Gailey, Nix and the scouts feel that Newton, Gabbert or Mallett are worth using the #3 pick on. I only have a problem with it, if Ralph demands that a QB be drafted at #3 regardless of how their board looks. A change in ownership just can't happen fast enough.

I'm with ya, but how will we ever know who's decision it is...unless someone comes out and says so?

[KD in CA]

I wouldn't even take newton in the 2nd round...picked 3rd overall = EPIC FAIL.

 

This.

[Guest three3]

No, its incredibly short-sighted, lazy, and down right ignorant to try to judge a player based ONLY on one game. No matter the importance of that game.

 

If you want to make it a part of the entire package of research, fine.

 

My point is that there are a large number of posters who only saw Newton once this year in that Championship game, and are forming their entire opinion off of it.

 

i was leaning towards cam until the NC game. i didn't like what i saw from cam in that game. he can be had around the 10th pick or so. taking him at 3 is a mistake. we all know how inept this front office is when it comes to making a trade. that is what should be scaring you. that they will reach for cam at 3 instead of taking a trenchman at 3 and moving back into the top half of the first round to take cam where he should be taken. if only working the phones was one of nix's abilities..if only

[DrDawkinstein]

You could argue the same of Fitzy, or Chad Pennington, or Tom Brady in 2000, or Matt Cassell at the time of his drafting, or plenty of other QBs who have been unheralded. Ryan Leaf's skill set was MAXIMAL for what you need to make it in this league, until you examined his head.

 

Moore is by all accounts a guy who anticipates what the coaches see on the field. He consumes game film. He has worked hard his entire life to correct notions formed by looking at his measurables. He's led a perennial winner at Boise St and helped them remain relevant in the national football conversation. He's started for three years in cold weather and has really improved. He's crazy-accurate.

 

Do I think he's worth a first or even a second-rounder? No. But in R3-4 you're looking at good projects. The Bills have two R4 picks. If they haven't gotten a QB by then, Moore's there, and they don't take him, I'll throw a brick at my TV if they let him pass by.

 

 

I think youre a little too enamored by the Golden Boy image and it's getting in the way of seeing him for what he really is. And that is an ok QB that played on a very good team in possibly the weakest conference in all of NCAA Football.

 

I was only able to catch 3 Boise St games this year and was completely unimpressed with Moore. You mention his accuracy, I saw a LOT of passes that were floaters that would have been pick-6s in the SEC, or even the PAC10. I saw him take chances on a lot of throws that should have been picked, but went to a wide open WR because they were playing a horrible defense. A few particular passes from the Fresno St game that were just horrible, that were completed because the defense had fallen down, or had blown coverage, or were too slow to get all the way across the field to cover, etc.

 

Boise was no where near as good as they were ranked this year, and that was proven in the long run. They benefit from playing 11 garbage teams a year. So do the players' stats.

 

i was leaning towards cam until the NC game. i didn't like what i saw from cam in that game. he can be had around the 10th pick or so. taking him at 3 is a mistake. we all know how inept this front office is when it comes to making a trade. that is what should be scaring you. that they will reach for cam at 3 instead of taking a trenchman at 3 and moving back into the top half of the first round to take cam where he should be taken. if only working the phones was one of nix's abilities..if only

 

With all the teams that need QBs, its just as likely that Arizona picks him at #5 as your scenario of him being available at #10 is.

 

I agree we should draft DL. IF Buddy and Chan do their research and decide that Cam is our guy, we get him at #3.

 

All there is to it.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I think youre a little too enamored by the Golden Boy image and it's getting in the way of seeing him for what he really is. And that is an ok QB that played on a very good team in possibly the weakest conference in all of NCAA Football.

 

I was only able to catch 3 Boise St games this year and was completely unimpressed with Moore. You mention his accuracy, I saw a LOT of passes that were floaters that would have been pick-6s in the SEC, or even the PAC10. I saw him take chances on a lot of throws that should have been picked, but went to a wide open WR because they were playing a horrible defense. A few particular passes from the Fresno St game that were just horrible, that were completed because the defense had fallen down, or had blown coverage, or were too slow to get all the way across the field to cover, etc.

 

Boise was no where near as good as they were ranked this year, and that was proven in the long run. They benefit from playing 11 garbage teams a year. So do the players' stats.

I thought the VT and OSU wins were legit - I saw those - but I don't get to see a lot of WAC football here. I won't defer to your opinion but I respect it.

[DrDawkinstein]

I thought the VT and OSU wins were legit - I saw those - but I don't get to see a lot of WAC football here. I won't defer to your opinion but I respect it.

 

The VT and OSU were definitely their legit wins this year, and unfortunately I wasnt able to catch either game.

 

Fair enough. I guess we'll just have to pick this conversation up 3 years from now and see if EITHER of us were close to being correct!

[Guest three3]

I think youre a little too enamored by the Golden Boy image and it's getting in the way of seeing him for what he really is. And that is an ok QB that played on a very good team in possibly the weakest conference in all of NCAA Football.

 

I was only able to catch 3 Boise St games this year and was completely unimpressed with Moore. You mention his accuracy, I saw a LOT of passes that were floaters that would have been pick-6s in the SEC, or even the PAC10. I saw him take chances on a lot of throws that should have been picked, but went to a wide open WR because they were playing a horrible defense. A few particular passes from the Fresno St game that were just horrible, that were completed because the defense had fallen down, or had blown coverage, or were too slow to get all the way across the field to cover, etc.

 

Boise was no where near as good as they were ranked this year, and that was proven in the long run. They benefit from playing 11 garbage teams a year. So do the players' stats.

 

 

 

With all the teams that need QBs, its just as likely that Arizona picks him at #5 as your scenario of him being available at #10 is.

 

I agree we should draft DL. IF Buddy and Chan do their research and decide that Cam is our guy, we get him at #3.

 

All there is to it.

 

 

then let arizona reach for him at 5. that's the point. you don't reach for players at picks far ahead of where they should go. our reaches have set this franchise back at least a decade. you take the player only in the range of his value, all the reaching has ruined this franchise - instead of reaching you trade back 5+ spots, stockpile picks and take the player where he SHOULD be taken, not at the number where your team is slotted.

[RuntheDamnBall]

The VT and OSU were definitely their legit wins this year, and unfortunately I wasnt able to catch either game.

 

Fair enough. I guess we'll just have to pick this conversation up 3 years from now and see if EITHER of us were close to being correct!

Agreed. I mean, if forced to put money down on it, I'd probably go with your argument. Only 2-5 guys come out on a yearly basis and become quality starters. Sometimes less. It's so situational, and the variables are about as numerous as those acting on a ball sailing through the air at the Ralph on Sunday.

 

Predicting this is a tall order. If it were predictable, the numbers would tell us we should be discussing whether Ryan Leaf has done enough to make the HOF, and Brady would probably be in the same conversation as Billy Volek.

[DrDawkinstein]

then let arizona reach for him at 5. that's the point. you don't reach for players at picks far ahead of where they should go. our reaches have set this franchise back at least a decade. you take the player only in the range of his value, all the reaching has ruined this franchise - instead of reaching you trade back 5+ spots, stockpile picks and take the player where he SHOULD be taken, not at the number where your team is slotted.

 

But if we think he is worthy of a #3 pick, and Arizona thinks hes worthy of a #5, then how much of a "reach" is it?

 

And more importantly, who is determining these exact players' values for you to say he's a reach there? Especially if 2 teams would pick him around the same spot? Does it need to be a 32 team consensus?

 

 

 

You originally said that if we want him, we should trade back to #10. If we do, and he goes at #5, then what? We end up settling for a player we werent that excited about just to pick up an extra 3rd round pick?

 

Doesnt make much sense to me. Sounds like we're being too tricky and shooting ourselves in the foot.

[John from Riverside]

Or ole Buddy might be putting it out there so teams think we are going to draft Cam and make a trade

[DrDawkinstein]

Agreed. I mean, if forced to put money down on it, I'd probably go with your argument. Only 2-5 guys come out on a yearly basis and become quality starters. Sometimes less. It's so situational, and the variables are about as numerous as those acting on a ball sailing through the air at the Ralph on Sunday.

 

Predicting this is a tall order. If it were predictable, the numbers would tell us we should be discussing whether Ryan Leaf has done enough to make the HOF, and Brady would probably be in the same conversation as Billy Volek.

 

Bingo! Thats a great point we can both agree on. I also think that is something a lot of people dont realize, or forget too often.

 

Just because a player was drafted and is successful with one team, does not mean he would have been successful on every other team. And vice versa, a player who busts on one team might have been successful on a bunch of other teams.