ieatcrayonz Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, the playoff starting QBs for the year. Sorry I was racist... Flacco, they make their money in the pocket, not on the run. Can I take that to mean that money cannot be made with Newton's arm from the pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Can I take that to mean that money cannot be made with Newton's arm from the pocket? You can take it anyway you want to far as I'm concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Whether a QB is a jittery scrambler or a statue that can't get out of his own way he will HAVE to learn to operate from the pocket regardless. Throwing from the pocket between the hash marks is imperative for a pro QB as this is what allows an offense the space to force a defense to defend the entire field. A QB needs to be able to move in the pocket to avoid the rush and it's an asset if he can break off a run now and then when a play breaks down completely. But a QB's first instinct must be to stay in the pocket and make defenders play the entire field. And the only way he can accomplish this is if he can learn to read defenses. An inability to read defenses will prevent a QB from ever being good regardless of what "type" of QB he is. Regardless of how good his OL and receivers are. All things being equal however, I think any coach would rather have a guy that can go the distance with his feet when a play breaks down. Fran Tarkenton and Steve Young are the only guys I can think of that could do this. I think Vick is on the verge of arriving at this point as well. His maturation as a pro QB can't be denied as he's routinely made plays this season with his arm, while in the pocket, after letting the play develop, and after resisting the urge to take off. He wouldn't have done this earlier in his career. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 You can take it anyway you want to far as I'm concerned I was just asking your opinion. You started the thread. You were the one judging on how his career will go, not me. This seemed to imply that he could never make passes from the pocket. Maybe I misinterpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Take a look at Michael Vick’s career; across 8 seasons in the NFL, he only played all 16 games once in his career (2006) and has a career record of 47-38-1, but a playoff record of 2-3 and has yet to advance past the divisional round. The Altanta Falcons with Michael Vick at QB played in and lost the NFC Championship to the Philadelphia Eagles in 2004: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2005012300/2004/POST20/falcons@eagles/analyze/box-score I've been hearing that the running/passing QB was the future of the QB position since at least as far back as 1970. They're fun and flashy and make great highlights, but they haven't won much. The pure traditional pocket passers seem to be winning the Lionshare of the Championships. If I had my pick between a pure pocket passer and the Michael Vick/Randall Cunningham/Jake Locker types, I'd go with the pure pocket passer. Most of the running/passing QBs start their careers running a lot and "redefining the QB position" etc. until after they get their head taken off a few times by NFL lineman and linebackers and DBs and then become pocket passers. See Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, and Roger Staubach. Michael Vick's days as a pocket passer are rapidly approaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 The Altanta Falcons with Michael Vick at QB played in and lost the NFC Championship to the Philadelphia Eagles in 2004: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2005012300/2004/POST20/falcons@eagles/analyze/box-score You're right, forgot about that game and when I went back through the game logs pulling W-L records I must have missed that. Good catch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I believe Steve Young would quality as an athletic scrambler. Well, Newton completed a higher % of passer & had a better td to int ratio coming out of college. http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=4312 http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/stats?playerId=232016 The league is constantly changing. 2 years ago, the Fins got into the playoffs with a huge assist to a formation that no one ever used. Now, the entire league uses it. It's foolish to assume that because other athletic qbs failed guys like Tebow & Newton will. 3 or 4 receiver sets are common place now. Plus as much as I dislike the guy, Vick had a borderline MVP season. If Newton's character & work ethic are strong, the sky is the limit if he ends up with the right coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The Bills don't have a proper line for a proper pocket passer. This is why Fitz works out ok with us right now, he can scramble/move around effectively when things break down. Until we get a solid line, getting a statue of a QB will not help this team. Either we have a bad line and an athletic (or even semi athletic) QB, or we have a good, solid line, and have a pocket QB. Yeppers, and one reason why Brohm bombed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen Vick pick apart a defense with his arm this season. I've seen him use his rocket arm to hook up on some sick bombs to D Jackson, and I've seen him exploit some defenses flustered trying to contain his speed, but I've never seen him figure out what the defense is doing and pick it apart. Then I don't what games you watched. He's been very accurate all over the field this season not just deep balls. That Redskins Monday night game he carved them up everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Unfortunately he is right. That is exactly the argument people make every day, they just use the word "athletic" to hide what they are saying. Cunningham was a great QB. I would love to have that kind of talent on this team. You can have Joe Flacco, I'll take Cunningham. Just because a guy can run, doesn't make him a bad QB. Think about how much better Bledsoe would have been if he could have even walked fast... People take two or three examples and that is Cam Newton... unfortunately he is a physical specimen, who could probably throw half of the guys you mentioned 50 yards. The guy has a rocket arm, and is fast... Why would you want to screw up and get a guy like him??? He also wins games...Auburn wasn't the favorite to be Champs. Mallet is a "pocket guy" and he doesn't win...that is like Marino, and while his stats were great, he didn't win ****, but I can see how that is better than somebody who is "athletic." Wrong. Pocket passer Black QB's--> Warren Moon, Doug Williams, McNabb, Steve McNair. I would want the Bills to draft these men in a heartbeat, smart, accurate and pocket prescence... running was a last resort. Lots of wins and a bunch of superbowl appearances... See the difference yet between runners and passers? You can add Tebow to the runner list so lets see how long before Denver is looking for a QB... Cunninghams best season was in Minn when he wasn't running, vick is showing the same progression. Runners are not effective NFL franchise QB's... (VY, Kordell, Troy Smith, Early running Steve Young, ) Edited January 7, 2011 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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