I'm against tanking the last 4 games

[Pilsner]

I can understand why many here would want our team to tank the rest of their games considering the bad record. I see it's to get a higher draft pick and in essence to raise the probability in their eyes of striking gold in the draft. But I cannot condone throwing games. Purposely losing games can gain us a higher pick, but at the same time it shows how willing we are to throw in the towel. It all boils down to how good our FO is at drafting now. In the first round our team has sucked ass in the past decade. We'll see if they turn it around with Nix and Whaley in charge along with Chan having his input. Imo it's better to make quality choices with the picks given to us. Luck could be a saviour for a team (imo he could be awesome) but I would never ever throw games for a player with even his potential. Throwing games like this just denigrates the character of how a team should be built. A lot of you will disagree I'm sure. It won't bother me one bit. Ask any true Bills player what they believe and they will say, continue to your best ability to win. Would Talley or Biscuit or Kelly say throw games? I doubt it. I see Beebe and Tasker saying win with what you have and never let up.

 

This type of discussion will never have a true consensus. It's the nature of how people think and their viewpoints of life. Purposely losing will never ever enter any fiber of my being whether it be with the Bills or any other aspect of life. To me the Bills represent integrity, hard work, never say die attitude, something to be proud of. Things will turn around for the better. I don't ever want to see our team lose on purpose and lose my respect for them.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Let me know when the Bills need to start "purposely" losing.

[Pilsner]

Let me know when the Bills need to start "purposely" losing.

 

The premise was to show how I disagree with Tolstoy's topic. I don't want any purposeful losing. Varying viewpoints are fine though.

[Jim in Anchorage]

The premise was to show how I disagree with Tolstoy's topic. I don't want any purposeful losing. Varying viewpoints are fine though.

My point was they lose just fine without doing it on purpose. Why would that change?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

The premise was to show how I disagree with Tolstoy's topic. I don't want any purposeful losing. Varying viewpoints are fine though.

 

changing a culture of losing by losing seems like a bad business model to me. there are of course franchise players that enter the league via the draft each year, but good teams have good systems and are run by good coaches with good front offices. i don't know for sure, of course, but it appears to me that Chan Gailey isn't all jacked up about the losing end of this season. let's hope he's the guy (and yes, i understand the front office problems of this franchise).

[Glory Bound]

My point was they lose just fine without doing it on purpose. Why would that change?

AWESOME response!

With any luck, we'll lose accidently...

With Luck, maybe we can on purpose

[1billsfan]

I can understand why many here would want our team to tank the rest of their games considering the bad record. I see it's to get a higher draft pick and in essence to raise the probability in their eyes of striking gold in the draft. But I cannot condone throwing games. Purposely losing games can gain us a higher pick, but at the same time it shows how willing we are to throw in the towel. It all boils down to how good our FO is at drafting now. In the first round our team has sucked ass in the past decade. We'll see if they turn it around with Nix and Whaley in charge along with Chan having his input. Imo it's better to make quality choices with the picks given to us. Luck could be a saviour for a team (imo he could be awesome) but I would never ever throw games for a player with even his potential. Throwing games like this just denigrates the character of how a team should be built. A lot of you will disagree I'm sure. It won't bother me one bit. Ask any true Bills player what they believe and they will say, continue to your best ability to win. Would Talley or Biscuit or Kelly say throw games? I doubt it. I see Beebe and Tasker saying win with what you have and never let up.

 

This type of discussion will never have a true consensus. It's the nature of how people think and their viewpoints of life. Purposely losing will never ever enter any fiber of my being whether it be with the Bills or any other aspect of life. To me the Bills represent integrity, hard work, never say die attitude, something to be proud of. Things will turn around for the better. I don't ever want to see our team lose on purpose and lose my respect for them.

 

The whole premise is flawed. NFL players and coaches don't care about future draft pick slots. They're professionals who want and play to win. They seriously don't give a damn about Andrew Luck or anybody else.

 

I believe that 2010 is the Bills "tipping point" season. The point and time when they truly started to rise back up from the MCM play. I see a core group of guys that, though they haven't won, they're only a few players away from playoff contention.

 

I believe in Ryan Fitzptarick. If Eli Manning can win a Superbowl then he can do it. Fitzpatrick reminds me a lot of Manning. Just give him one more solid offensive lineman and add three defensive players who can actually play, sky's the limit.

[Meathead]

its so cute when fans think their choices affect the players and coaches

 

play hard, try your best, take it right to the end, almost win, then dont

[Albany,n.y.]

I can understand why many here would want our team to tank the rest of their games considering the bad record. I see it's to get a higher draft pick and in essence to raise the probability in their eyes of striking gold in the draft. But I cannot condone throwing games. Purposely losing games can gain us a higher pick, but at the same time it shows how willing we are to throw in the towel. It all boils down to how good our FO is at drafting now. In the first round our team has sucked ass in the past decade. We'll see if they turn it around with Nix and Whaley in charge along with Chan having his input. Imo it's better to make quality choices with the picks given to us. Luck could be a saviour for a team (imo he could be awesome) but I would never ever throw games for a player with even his potential. Throwing games like this just denigrates the character of how a team should be built. A lot of you will disagree I'm sure. It won't bother me one bit. Ask any true Bills player what they believe and they will say, continue to your best ability to win. Would Talley or Biscuit or Kelly say throw games? I doubt it. I see Beebe and Tasker saying win with what you have and never let up.

 

This type of discussion will never have a true consensus. It's the nature of how people think and their viewpoints of life. Purposely losing will never ever enter any fiber of my being whether it be with the Bills or any other aspect of life. To me the Bills represent integrity, hard work, never say die attitude, something to be proud of. Things will turn around for the better. I don't ever want to see our team lose on purpose and lose my respect for them.

It's not about the team tanking games. This team won't tank the games. The debate is about the fan's right to root for winning 1 game each week versus the FAN rooting for what he feels is better for the long term. That's what has fans divided. I don't think you will find 1 FAN who doesn't wear a tinfoil hat who will want this TEAM to tank a game. On the other hand there are many of us who look at the big picture who don't mind seeing a group that needs an infusion of better talent lose naturally. Fans who quote Herm Edwards saying "You play to win the game" are truly bluring the line between a player and a fan. I don't PLAY at all. I pay my money & root for the team until the season becomes meaningless, then I root for whatever is best for the long term interests of the team. Not only have I rooted to lose the final game of the season to move up in the draft, but I have also rooted against the team when I wanted an incompetent coach fired. Never have I advocated the players or coaches doing that, but once I pay my money to go to the game, I have the freedom to root for whatever outcome I decide I want to root for.

Now let's examine the mindset of winning every game, as Herman Edwards stated he believes, versus the attitude that you don't have to win meaningless games. In my opinion there's no difference between a game that is meaningless because you've clinched your playoff spot and a game you are playing after you've clinched last place. They're both meaningless. HOF coach Marv Levy didn't play to win every game. Take a look at those season finales where Marv thought it was more important to keep his players fresh & healthy than win a meaningless game. Future HOF coach Bill Belichick does the same thing once the Patriots have locked up their seeding in the playoffs. Last season Jim Caldwell chose resting his players over winning a meaningless game against the Bills & made it to the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, Herm Edwards with his philosophy, is working for ESPN instead of coaching in the NFL because his teams may have played to win the game, but didn't win often enough for him to keep his coaching job.

Then there are the fans who say you have to win meaningless games to change the culture of losing. To them I say just look at the handful of players who survived the 2-14 seasons with the Bills. Guys like Darryl Talley had no problem going from losers to winners. Players on the 1985 2-14 team included Talley, Bruce Smith, Andre Reed, Jim Ritcher, and Frank Reich. Did it destroy their ability to play as winners, did they not all learn to hate to lose? No. What turned around the culture of losing was an infusion of better talent like HOFers Jim Kelly & Thurman Thomas. Once the team got more talent, everyone hated losing, yet they still could realize the difference between a meaningful & meaningless game and didn't demand to Marv to play in meaningless games at the end of the regular season.

[bowery4]

Well I for 1 like and agree with your post Pilsner.

[Albany,n.y.]

The whole premise is flawed. NFL players and coaches don't care about future draft pick slots. They're professionals who want and play to win. They seriously don't give a damn about Andrew Luck or anybody else.

 

I believe that 2010 is the Bills "tipping point" season. The point and time when they truly started to rise back up from the MCM play. I see a core group of guys that, though they haven't won, they're only a few players away from playoff contention.

 

I believe in Ryan Fitzptarick. If Eli Manning can win a Superbowl then he can do it. Fitzpatrick reminds me a lot of Manning. Just give him one more solid offensive lineman and add three defensive players who can actually play, sky's the limit.

If you watched Eli Manning, you wouldn't be saying that. The big difference between Eli Manning & Ryan Fitzpatrick is their ability to dig deep when the game is on the line. Eli Manning is clutch, when it's on his shoulders to get the team the win, he delivers game after game. That's why the Giants pay him the mega-bucks. Fitzpatrick is no Eli Manning. When has Fitzpatrick carried a team on his shoulders for a game winning drive? Eli Manning has come through in the most important game there is. If they were both free agents, Manning's contract offers would dwarf Fitzpatrick's, and rightfully so.

This is almost as ridiculous as the posts years ago saying JP Losman was better than Eli Manning. Eli Manning has consistently won games from his second season in the league. Ryan Fitzpatrick reminds me a lot more of Frank Reich than Eli Manning.

[Chandemonium]

If you watched Eli Manning, you wouldn't be saying that. The big difference between Eli Manning & Ryan Fitzpatrick is their ability to dig deep when the game is on the line. Eli Manning is clutch, when it's on his shoulders to get the team the win, he delivers game after game. That's why the Giants pay him the mega-bucks. Fitzpatrick is no Eli Manning. When has Fitzpatrick carried a team on his shoulders for a game winning drive? Eli Manning has come through in the most important game there is. If they were both free agents, Manning's contract offers would dwarf Fitzpatrick's, and rightfully so.

This is almost as ridiculous as the posts years ago saying JP Losman was better than Eli Manning. Eli Manning has consistently won games from his second season in the league. Ryan Fitzpatrick reminds me a lot more of Frank Reich than Eli Manning.

So Fitz isn't "clutch" enough to be compared to Eli Manning, but he is clutch enough to be compared to the guy who led the greatest comeback in NFL history? I'm not following your logic here.

[The Senator]

If you watched Eli Manning, you wouldn't be saying that. The big difference between Eli Manning & Ryan Fitzpatrick is their ability to dig deep when the game is on the line. Eli Manning is clutch, when it's on his shoulders to get the team the win, he delivers game after game. That's why the Giants pay him the mega-bucks. Fitzpatrick is no Eli Manning. When has Fitzpatrick carried a team on his shoulders for a game winning drive? Eli Manning has come through in the most important game there is. If they were both free agents, Manning's contract offers would dwarf Fitzpatrick's, and rightfully so.

This is almost as ridiculous as the posts years ago saying JP Losman was better than Eli Manning. Eli Manning has consistently won games from his second season in the league. Ryan Fitzpatrick reminds me a lot more of Frank Reich than Eli Manning.

You live in ' Giants' Country ', so I'm sure you know that not everyone shares your opinion of Eli...

 

The Official Eli Manning Sucks Blog

 

The New Eli Manning Sucks Blog

 

(He may be a Super Bowl MVP, but so was Larry Brown! )

[Albany,n.y.]

So Fitz isn't "clutch" enough to be compared to Eli Manning, but he is clutch enough to be compared to the guy who led the greatest comeback in NFL history? I'm not following your logic here.

Frank Reich could use the top talent around him to win, but couldn't carry a team like Eli Manning can do in the final moments. Eli Manning does it week after week, Reich never had the opportunity, but was a great backup, just like Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick's W-L record speaks for itself. He's the best QB on a 2-10 team.

At the beginning of the season I was defending Fitzpatrick because he was never as bad as a lot of people thought he was. Now I find myself trying to explain why he isn't as good as some people now think he is. He's always been somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes. The fact he was the main QB in 5 of the 6 wins last year shows he isn't the bum some people made him out to be. At the same time, he doesn't elevate a team to the next level, as evidenced by the fact the Bills have only won 2 games this year and he continues to make critical errors at key points of games, week after week.

Fitzpatrick can be here for another decade, but he cannot be the starter for the next decade if the Bills want to win a Super Bowl.

 

You live in ' Giants' Country ', so I'm sure you know that not everyone shares your opinion of Eli...

 

The Official Eli Manning Sucks Blog

 

The New Eli Manning Sucks Blog

 

(He may be a Super Bowl MVP, but so was Larry Brown! )

There's no such thing as a perfect QB. All QBs take heat from their fans. All one has to do is think back to how many times Bills' fans got on Jim Kelly's case. Some wanted to bench him in favor of Frank Reich.

Because Albany is Giants country, I hear more & see more about Manning than any non-Bills player. I know the Giants fans who think he sucks. I also hear the comments on sports talk as to why the Giants management feels he's so valuable.

Fitzpatrick is not in Eli's league and never will be. That doesn't make Fitzpatrick a bum.

[aristocrat]

this always goes to show people think a 1st round draft pick is going to come in here and play olb, rt, ilb, qb and dt. we should tank games to make our pick more valuable and then trade down and pick up as many 2nd's and 3rd's as we can. this team is essentially starting over and right now i think would just be bad business to go and throw 40-70 million at an unproven rookie. this team needs to take less risk and put their eggs in a multiple picks from round 2-4. i stated this already in the pats thread and this is what the pats did last year and are doing again next year...multiple 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. if the bills traded back there would be threads stating we are the cheapest team around and not being able to survive in this league but tell me what the difference between russell okung and rodger saffold is? clay matthews and aaron curry?

[Austin_Bills_Fan]

If you watched Eli Manning, you wouldn't be saying that. The big difference between Eli Manning & Ryan Fitzpatrick is their ability to dig deep when the game is on the line. Eli Manning is clutch, when it's on his shoulders to get the team the win, he delivers game after game. That's why the Giants pay him the mega-bucks. Fitzpatrick is no Eli Manning. When has Fitzpatrick carried a team on his shoulders for a game winning drive? Eli Manning has come through in the most important game there is. If they were both free agents, Manning's contract offers would dwarf Fitzpatrick's, and rightfully so.

This is almost as ridiculous as the posts years ago saying JP Losman was better than Eli Manning. Eli Manning has consistently won games from his second season in the league. Ryan Fitzpatrick reminds me a lot more of Frank Reich than Eli Manning.

 

Dude, I have two big time Gints fans in my house and see plenty of Eli. Trust me, Fitz is better.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Dude, I have two big time Gints fans in my house and see plenty of Eli. Trust me, Fitz is better.

Manning is really an odd player. Every time I thought he has finally turned the corner and joined the upper class of quarterbacks, he has an epically bad game.

 

And even during his good games, he makes some incredibly stupid plays.

 

That unforced fumble at the end of his scramble in the loss to Philly in the 4th quarter is very typically Eli. Sometimes it seems like something is missing.

[1billsfan]

If you watched Eli Manning, you wouldn't be saying that. The big difference between Eli Manning & Ryan Fitzpatrick is their ability to dig deep when the game is on the line. Eli Manning is clutch, when it's on his shoulders to get the team the win, he delivers game after game. That's why the Giants pay him the mega-bucks. Fitzpatrick is no Eli Manning. When has Fitzpatrick carried a team on his shoulders for a game winning drive? Eli Manning has come through in the most important game there is. If they were both free agents, Manning's contract offers would dwarf Fitzpatrick's, and rightfully so.

This is almost as ridiculous as the posts years ago saying JP Losman was better than Eli Manning. Eli Manning has consistently won games from his second season in the league. Ryan Fitzpatrick reminds me a lot more of Frank Reich than Eli Manning.

 

What you fail to understand is that Fitzpatrick has turned the corner this year. His brain, talent and confidence have clearly all come into sync. 20 TDs in 10 games is the evidence of this. He's done this with little help from a running game. Bills rank 25th in rushing. He's done this with literally no help by having shortened fields due to turnovers. Bills rank 25th in turnovers. Yet he still has thrown 20 TDs in 10 games.

 

As for clutch play...

 

Bills scored 10 unanswered points (Fitzpatrick 17 yard TD pass to Evans, field goal) to tie the game in Baltimore and send it into overtime where a strip/fumble/no forward progress call is what cost them the game. Fitz threw 3 TD passes on the road against one of the NFL's best defenses in that game.

 

In KC, Fitzpatrick authored a clutch 4th quarter drive ending with a TD pass to Johnson to send that game into overtime. A game which they would have won were in not for the second field goal miss.

 

The Bills should have had 21 points and another overtime game against the Bears were it not for the missed PAT which had them chasing that point the rest of the game. All three TDs were directly linked to Fitzpatrick. One TD pass and the other two were set up near the goal line on long pass plays.

 

 

That clutch play rap is total BS. This is a team game, he can not do it all. Even Eli's brother Peyton Manning can't do it all.

 

 

As for the Eli comparison, give Fitzpatrick a very good offensive line where they can both run and pass block, and a defense that can terrorize the opposing QB just like the year the Giants won it all, the Bills will have a real shot to win the Superbowl.

 

Some fans here have been brainwashed by 10 years of watching 2 all time greats in Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, and think that the Bills should keep looking for a QB with perfect accuracy. Those players are once in a generation types. You should be thanking your lucky stars that we have found such a smart QB who knows how to get the ball into the end zone. I can totally see the Bills winning it all with Ryan at the helm. The Bills just need to use the Giants blueprint. Get a few defensive monsters and another offensive lineman and watch us kick some serious NFL butt.

[Talley56]

What you fail to understand is that Fitzpatrick has turned the corner this year. His brain, talent and confidence have clearly all come into sync. 20 TDs in 10 games is the evidence of this. He's done this with little help from a running game. Bills rank 25th in rushing. He's done this with literally no help by having shortened fields due to turnovers. Bills rank 25th in turnovers. Yet he still has thrown 20 TDs in 10 games.

 

As for clutch play...

 

Bills scored 10 unanswered points (Fitzpatrick 17 yard TD pass to Evans, field goal) to tie the game in Baltimore and send it into overtime where a strip/fumble/no forward progress call is what cost them the game. Fitz threw 3 TD passes on the road against one of the NFL's best defenses in that game.

 

In KC, Fitzpatrick authored a clutch 4th quarter drive ending with a TD pass to Johnson to send that game into overtime. A game which they would have won were in not for the second field goal miss.

 

The Bills should have had 21 points and another overtime game against the Bears were it not for the missed PAT which had them chasing that point the rest of the game. All three TDs were directly linked to Fitzpatrick. One TD pass and the other two were set up near the goal line on long pass plays.

 

 

That clutch play rap is total BS. This is a team game, he can not do it all. Even Eli's brother Peyton Manning can't do it all.

 

 

As for the Eli comparison, give Fitzpatrick a very good offensive line where they can both run and pass block, and a defense that can terrorize the opposing QB just like the year the Giants won it all, the Bills will have a real shot to win the Superbowl.

 

Some fans here have been brainwashed by 10 years of watching 2 all time greats in Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, and think that the Bills should keep looking for a QB with perfect accuracy. Those players are once in a generation types. You should be thanking your lucky stars that we have found such a smart QB who knows how to get the ball into the end zone. I can totally see the Bills winning it all with Ryan at the helm. The Bills just need to use the Giants blueprint. Get a few defensive monsters and another offensive lineman and watch us kick some serious NFL butt.

Adding to the clutch plays:

 

Led the team back against a very tough Steelers defense then threw a perfect game winning touchdown pass in OT. It's not his fault that Steve Johnson dropped that pass along with some others prior to that.

 

I certainly agree about Brady/Manning in that those caliber QBs are rare and aren't necessarily going to come along by throwing games at the end of a season for high draft picks. I like where we are going with Fitz and I think we would regret it if we gave up on him for some rookie.

[Spiderweb]

Let me know when the Bills need to start "purposely" losing.

 

...as in they've been able to lose regularly while trying....cheap shot.