Roll Call - Who would have preferred to lose?

[NewEra]

Never prefer to lose.

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Five years of moral victories have led to no progress. While none of us know what the future holds, I'm of the opinion that these last few weeks are fool's gold and I'll be thrilled if we get a chance to draft Luck or Mallett. Also of note is the fact that UFA's have run from Buffalo the last ten years.

 

That being said, I don't actively root against the Bills, but understand those that do.

Edited November 22, 2010 by N.Y. Orangeman

[skijef]

Colts are where they are because of #1 OVERALL Peyton Manning.

 

Tim Couch, David Carr, Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell all #1 overall too!

[Virgil]

Yes, but if we go 8-8 wouldn't that show that we don't need as many players as we think? I don't think they will but that means we will have won 8 in a row and beaten Pit, NYJ, NE...etc.

 

Oh, absolutely. But even if that happened, I still think we'd have the big needs at RT and OLB. Even in our wins, they have been fairly close and those positions have shown a glaring weakness that we've been able to overcome. Now, I'm not going to pretend to say that an OLB is the only answer to our horrible run D, but it seems like a start.

 

I'm saying this because I don't want us to be a wild card team, I want us to be a contender. The team that ends the game at halftime. And for that, we atleast need those two positions and an upgrade at QB who doesn't make those mistakes that Fitz promises to make 2-3 times a game. Nothing against Fitz again, but he is a wildcard QB, not a Superbowl QB.

[The Senator]

Oh, absolutely. But even if that happened, I still think we'd have the big needs at RT and OLB. Even in our wins, they have been fairly close and those positions have shown a glaring weakness that we've been able to overcome. Now, I'm not going to pretend to say that an OLB is the only answer to our horrible run D, but it seems like a start.

 

I'm saying this because I don't want us to be a wild card team, I want us to be a contender. The team that ends the game at halftime. And for that, we atleast need those two positions and an upgrade at QB who doesn't make those mistakes that Fitz promises to make 2-3 times a game. Nothing against Fitz again, but he is a wildcard QB, not a Superbowl QB.

Think...

 

Gabe Carimi

 

Dontay Moch

 

Both should be there - in the middle of rounds 1 & 2, respectively - when the Bills pick.

 

Just WIN, baby!!!

Edited November 22, 2010 by The Senator

[Kelso_Helmet]

The Bills' issues are systemic in nature. A vicious cycle of underperformance, poor organizational and personnel decisions, bad coaching and game management, etc. No single player can offset the recent malaise. Hoping for the Bills to start goldbricking so some 22 year old can join a troupe of confirmed losers and single-handedly turn them around is ludicrous.

 

I want to see a system emerge that addresses all of the above issues and have management plug in the right personnel to apply this system every Sunday. Reooting for your team to reap the benefits of being an embarrassment is pathetic. We're better than that. Win some games, build the muscle memory associated with winning, and let's focus on the big picture.

[tennesseeboy]

draft position isn't going to do much for you. A winning attitude and some effort will. I'll take winning any day. Hoping for the number one pick is a loser mentality.

[Ramius]

Winning teams are going to attract more free agents. Not saying we're going to sign the top tier, but those middle tier guys will look more to Buffalo if we are winning than to other losing teams.

[thebug]

Winning teams are going to attract more free agents. Not saying we're going to sign the top tier, but those middle tier guys will look more to Buffalo if we are winning than to other losing teams.

 

 

8-0 in the second half of the season could get some free agents to pay attention to Buffalo.

[1B4IDie]

Think...

 

Gabe Carimi

 

Dontay Moch

 

Both should be there - in the middle of rounds 1 & 2, respectively - when the Bills pick.

 

Just WIN, baby!!!

 

This guy is becoming my second round OLB of choice:

http://nflmocks.com/2010/09/26/2011-nfl-draft-scouting-report-jeremy-beal-okla/

 

Jeremy Beal Oklahoma 6-3 263

They played him at Saftey sometimes because he has enough speed, thats pretty crazy for a dude at 263.

Thats ideal size for an OLB and has some speed.

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=76785&draftyear=2011&genpos=OLB

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/27213/jeremy-beal

Edited November 22, 2010 by Why So Serious?

[The Senator]

This guy is becoming my second round OLB of choice:

http://nflmocks.com/2010/09/26/2011-nfl-draft-scouting-report-jeremy-beal-okla/

 

Jeremy Beal Oklahoma 6-3 263

They played him at Saftey sometimes because he has enough speed, thats pretty crazy for a dude at 263.

Thats ideal size for an OLB and has some speed.

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=76785&draftyear=2011&genpos=OLB

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/27213/jeremy-beal

A 263-lb. safety ???

 

Holy crap, Batman!

 

The thing (for me, anyway) about obsessing with the draft is that, while fun, it's frustrating - you're all set with who you want, then that guy goes 'off the board'!

 

Beal looks like a solid choice - more DE-sized, where Dontay Moch is slightly smaller, but has 'Moch Speed'. (Dude ran the 40 in 4.19 - that's almost a second faster than C.J. Spiller!)

 

Rumors of Dontay Moch's speed are not exaggerated

[Assquatch]

Luck may not even come out this year. Losing to perhaps be in a position to take a guy that might come out, is a piss-poor strategy and reflects the mindset of someone who has given up. Has no hope. Lacks vision.

No one's talking about a strategy.

 

So what? You really want to perpetuate, and potentially deepen, the culture of losing in order to draft ONE GUY who could get his knee wrecked in training camp? Then where are you?

 

So they get the first pick, but the rest of the team is still a bunch of miserable losers who don't know how to win and don't want to be there. How do you turn that ship on a dime? You finish strong and some decent free agents might consider coming.

 

I don't know, but in any other business, purposefully trying to not win is a serious integrity issue. But a lot of people these days don't know what that word means anymore, I guess.

No one's talking about the team purposely trying to lose. We're fans, not players trying to blow games.

 

So, tomorrow wins are more important than today wins; I don't think so!

 

Luck, truck, schmuck...who knows what tomorrow brings? Win 'em all, establish a winning attitude, find out who has heart and who needs to be sent on down the road; then, next year, draft the best of the players we need and go from there.

No, but tomorrow wins are better than a today win. Especially in a season in which they were out of the playoffs by week 8.

[Assquatch]

Please reconcile your "we need to lose to draft high to get talent" idiocy with the fact that a 7th round draft pick was clutch on the field today...

 

There is a particular player I want on this team, who will be gone by the second pick (assuming he declares). I am not saying "the higher the better", especially with who the Bills have doing the scouting. Even Modrak can't blow it if they have the #1. I don't trust him one bit once that player is off the board.

 

So you are saying thayt we should expect the Lions to have about a 10-12 year run where they are in every super bowl? Given the amount of high picks they've had, that must be the future outcome for them (given your lahjik)

This is about the #1 pick this coming year. Not about the Lions and the multitude of WRs they took every year.

 

 

Luck on this team next year would (IMO) do more toward winning than "learning how to win" a (standings-wise) meaningless game the previous November.

 

None of my previously stated opinions mean I didn't enjoy the game yesterday.

[1B4IDie]

No one's talking about a strategy.

 

 

No one's talking about the team purposely trying to lose. We're fans, not players trying to blow games.

 

 

No, but tomorrow wins are better than a today win. Especially in a season in which they were out of the playoffs by week 8.

 

The problem is yes people are talking about a strategy of Purposely losing.

 

Edward's Arm for one.

[SoggyHog]

The best predictor of winning next year is winning this year. don't believe me? Compare the records of teams in year A and compare them to year B. Does winning in year A correlate better with wining in year B, or does losing enough to get the #1 or #2 draft pick correlate better with winning in year B? What about year C?

 

If you don't think the Bills are smart enough to find an impact player at #2, #4, #9, #10, etc, what makes you think they will make the right decision at #1. The "lose to get a better draft pick" crowd is made up (I believe) of people who have essentially given up. People with no hope. People who lack vision.

 

A B S O L U T E L Y!!!

[Orton's Arm]

The best predictor of winning next year is winning this year. don't believe me? Compare the records of teams in year A and compare them to year B. Does winning in year A correlate better with wining in year B, or does losing enough to get the #1 or #2 draft pick correlate better with winning in year B? What about year C?

 

If you don't think the Bills are smart enough to find an impact player at #2, #4, #9, #10, etc, what makes you think they will make the right decision at #1. The "lose to get a better draft pick" crowd is made up (I believe) of people who have essentially given up. People with no hope. People who lack vision.

As you know already, there are four possible causes for a correlation between A and B. They are:

 

1) A causes B

2) B causes A

3) C causes A and B

4) Coincidence

 

A team that wins a bunch of games over the course of the year probably has good talent and a good coaching staff. Those things will help it win games the next year. If A is the number of wins in a given season, and B is the number of wins in a subsequent season, this is a situation where C causes A and B. (C here being the team's level of talent and quality of coaching.) Winning more games does not increase the quality of your team's talent or improve the quality of its coaching.

 

You could argue that players will start playing better once they gain more confidence in the team as a whole. But why does that increase in confidence have to take place right now? Why not lose a few more games to close out the season, get the good draft position, and worry about players' confidence come next season?

 

I'm not suggesting that players should try to lose: that's a bad habit to get into. But it's better for the team if the Bills lose the rest of their games this season.

[The Dean]

Why not lose a few more games to close out the season, get the good draft position, and worry about players' confidence come next season?

 

 

Because, as we researchers say, "That's horses#it!"

 

You show me evidence that suggests a slight improvement is draft position is a better predictor of wins the next season than winning in the last half of the season. Go ahead and remove the top teams from your analysis, if that makes you feel better.

[Koufax]

I AM SO SICK OF THIS!!!!! SOME OF YOU GUYS DON'T GET IT!!!!!

 

It seems like most of this thread is Win-To-Enjoy-It vs Lose-For-The-Future. That just isn't the choice.

 

1) I don't think our chances of getting Luck are very good. He will likely not come out, and it would have been very difficult to catch the 1-15 Panthers.

 

2) Winning to build a winning tradition and for the value it adds to the 30+ guys coming back matters more than any draft improvement. There are a handful of turn arounds, but aside from Aikman and Manning, very few tied to the #1 pick in the last several decades.

 

3) As The Dean said, winning correlates much more closely with future winning than anything else. I have posted some numbers about this, but Super Bowl teams don't very often have a bad season in their previous five years or so.

 

4) GREAT QBs are selected after #1. Everyone is high on Luck right now, and I don't follow college football closely enough to have a strong opinion on the other guys, but there are a lot of drafts that go the way the Eli #1, Rivers #4, Rothlisberger #11 compared to the Peyton #1, Leaf #2. That plus QB busts at #1 doesn't make me sold that we are better off drafting #1.

 

5) 1-15 seasons (forget 0-16) are very hard on a team, coach, and fan base.

 

6) Fitz is good enough to not make QB an absolute 1st round need. We need to get a QB of the future in the next couple drafts, but Fitz takes the urgency off, and we can get the best players at each pick to make our team better.

 

GO BILLS! One game at a time, playing to win, and now that we have two wins I can't wait until #3. I see us picking #4 or #5, and we will get a great player there. I'm still rooting for all the other bottom teams to win, but each and every week we should hope this team wins both for our enjoyment now, and for the future of the franchise.

[Austin_Bills_Fan]

Can we stop this please? Anyone here who would have preferred to lose is NOT a Bills fan and there is nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise! This is a team that is improving with superior offensive coaching. The defense needs a couple of linemen and a few linebackers but this is a young team getting better.

 

Sooooo True.......

 

It defies the definition of a fan to hope ypur team loses... pathetic..

[1B4IDie]

I AM SO SICK OF THIS!!!!! SOME OF YOU GUYS DON'T GET IT!!!!!

 

It seems like most of this thread is Win-To-Enjoy-It vs Lose-For-The-Future. That just isn't the choice.

 

1) I don't think our chances of getting Luck are very good. He will likely not come out, and it would have been very difficult to catch the 1-15 Panthers.

 

2) Winning to build a winning tradition and for the value it adds to the 30+ guys coming back matters more than any draft improvement. There are a handful of turn arounds, but aside from Aikman and Manning, very few tied to the #1 pick in the last several decades.

 

3) As The Dean said, winning correlates much more closely with future winning than anything else. I have posted some numbers about this, but Super Bowl teams don't very often have a bad season in their previous five years or so.

 

4) GREAT QBs are selected after #1. Everyone is high on Luck right now, and I don't follow college football closely enough to have a strong opinion on the other guys, but there are a lot of drafts that go the way the Eli #1, Rivers #4, Rothlisberger #11 compared to the Peyton #1, Leaf #2. That plus QB busts at #1 doesn't make me sold that we are better off drafting #1.

 

5) 1-15 seasons (forget 0-16) are very hard on a team, coach, and fan base.

 

6) Fitz is good enough to not make QB an absolute 1st round need. We need to get a QB of the future in the next couple drafts, but Fitz takes the urgency off, and we can get the best players at each pick to make our team better.

 

GO BILLS! One game at a time, playing to win, and now that we have two wins I can't wait until #3. I see us picking #4 or #5, and we will get a great player there. I'm still rooting for all the other bottom teams to win, but each and every week we should hope this team wins both for our enjoyment now, and for the future of the franchise.

Right on.

 

Not to mention there is no real quality difference between a #2 pick and #6 pick, we're talking about the 11 Best players out of of all of the 100s of college football players.

Lets look a a quick look at HOF players:

 

# of NFL Hall of Famers picked at each draft position in the top 11:

 

#1 Picks - 11

#2 Picks - 8

#3 Picks - 9

#4 Picks - 9

#5 Picks - 6

#6 Picks - 10

#7 PIcks - 1

#8 Picks - 4

#9 Picks - 3

#10 Picks - 2

#11 Picks - 5

Edited November 23, 2010 by Why So Serious?