Ngata expected to be drafted by the Bills

[TPS]

I can't think of any draft and pick in recent history that made me say WTF!?!?

 

That said, I want to point out that I tried to keep tabs of what he did that first year, and I think in the first game he had an INT for a TD; but overall his stats were not good at all. I wondered at the time if maybe he wasn't all that; but we know now he is. Point of all this rambling: we shouldn't judge Troup by what he does this year either. The good thing is that he is getting experience.

[ajzepp]

 

 

Might see some Bills o-linemen slapping Whitner on the back of the head sunday.

 

 

There are lots of theories on how to draft, but the one that I firmly believe is that when you have a chance to pick a top rated front 7 player on defense, you TAKE him. Not only does defense win championships, but a solid front seven helps the run AND the pass defense. And I'm not talking about projects or tweeners like Aaron Maybin or Erik Flowers.

 

The only time I would waiver from this is if you need a franchise QB or franchise LT...either of those could trump a front 7 pick. but othewise, you shore up your Dline and if there is a game changing stud LB there, you take him. Our biggest impact player among our front 7 is Kyle Williams - a serious overachiever. That's ridiculous.

[VirginiaMike]

I want the Buffalo Bills to come clean and say WHO pushed the Whitner pick through? Was it Marv? Was it Modrak? WHO was the genius that decided Ngata was not who we needed? I want a real answer, dammit. No offense intended to Whitner -- you probably couldn't see it coming that you'd be taken at the 8th pick. But I want a NAME -- none of this -- "it was the scouting department" or "Ralph always gets the final say-so" or that BS. I want to know WHO said "No, fellas, we're going to take Whitner". If that individual is not already gone, it's time to make that happen.

 

If I remember some of the wrods correctly, we pased on him because in our "new" tampa Two defense we wanted small, quick D-tackles. How did that work out for us? Poor decision making up and down the line for the Bills

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

It should also be added that someone in charge of college scouting graded Ngata and McCargo as equivalent talent.

 

McCargo is setting records in terms of being inactive on game days, while Ngata has only become a one man wrecking crew.

hard to imagine since McCargo was 3rd best lineman on his college team. :wallbash:

[2003Contenders]

I want the Buffalo Bills to come clean and say WHO pushed the Whitner pick through? Was it Marv? Was it Modrak? WHO was the genius that decided Ngata was not who we needed? I want a real answer, dammit. No offense intended to Whitner -- you probably couldn't see it coming that you'd be taken at the 8th pick. But I want a NAME -- none of this -- "it was the scouting department" or "Ralph always gets the final say-so" or that BS. I want to know WHO said "No, fellas, we're going to take Whitner". If that individual is not already gone, it's time to make that happen.

 

 

I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the final decision on that pick was indeed Marv's. It was his first pick as the new GM, and after the Donahoe autocratic style, Marv wanted to place his consensus-style print on the team.

 

At the time, Ngata was indeed the conventional choice, given the big need the team had at DT. However, there was some concern about Ngata's character and the knock on him was that he had a tendency to take plays off. There were also some concerns that Ngata was not an specially good fit for Jauron's new Cover 2 Defense that was looking for more of a penetrator than a run stuffer.

 

Some of the scouts and coaches believed that Broderick Bunkley was a better fit for that scheme.

 

Meanwhile, there was consensus in the war room that the best QB in the draft was Jay Cutler (rather than Vince Young or Matt Leinart), but there was also heated debate about whether or not JP Losman was THE guy.

 

While all of this was going on, both the Broncos (who were picking at 15) and the Eagles (picking at 14) were desperately trying to trade up.

 

Amidst all of the confusion, Whitner was the one player that everyone in the war room could live with:

-- He filled a definite need (Lawyer Milloy had just recently been released)

-- Reminded many of Bob Sanders, who was an important part of that similar-themed Indy defense

-- Came out of a well renowned college for cranking out DBs (OSU)

-- Was highly recommended by some of the veteran players (London Fletcher among them).

 

Meanwhile, Whitner's agent had smartly worried Marv by suggesting that Whitner would NOT get passed the Ravens, who were picking at 13 -- a spot before the Eagles or Broncos, who had made the trade offers.

 

So, there was plenty of hemming and hawing -- and Marv wound up making the consensus pick, the one with the least "risk". While I do not believe that Whitner has been a total bust, Marv probably made the worst possible choice he could have made:

 

1. The Ravens were going to take Ngata all along. Had the Bills traded down with either Denver or Philly, they could have still landed Whitner AND picked up another high (presumably a 2nd rounder) draft pick.

 

2. Ironoically JP would go on to have a pretty good season in 2006, but the team would have been MUCH better off to this day with Cutler.

 

3. Both Ngata and Bunkley are quality starting DTs.

[thewildrabbit]

Nobody???

Granted I'm not the only one, but It seems like very few are concerned about the owner as president, considering how many threads are started by posters complaining about the players, the HC, the GM, the bad drafts and the players the Bills missed on over the last ten years. It just seems to me that more are focusing on the minions when the real problem is with the boss who hired those morons. I've seen many "ralph is cheap" posts, just not many discussing the issue of the owner ruining the team.... or perhaps just not enough.

[st. pete gogolak]

I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the final decision on that pick was indeed Marv's. It was his first pick as the new GM, and after the Donahoe autocratic style, Marv wanted to place his consensus-style print on the team.

 

At the time, Ngata was indeed the conventional choice, given the big need the team had at DT. However, there was some concern about Ngata's character and the knock on him was that he had a tendency to take plays off. There were also some concerns that Ngata was not an specially good fit for Jauron's new Cover 2 Defense that was looking for more of a penetrator than a run stuffer.

 

Some of the scouts and coaches believed that Broderick Bunkley was a better fit for that scheme.

 

Meanwhile, there was consensus in the war room that the best QB in the draft was Jay Cutler (rather than Vince Young or Matt Leinart), but there was also heated debate about whether or not JP Losman was THE guy.

 

While all of this was going on, both the Broncos (who were picking at 15) and the Eagles (picking at 14) were desperately trying to trade up.

 

Amidst all of the confusion, Whitner was the one player that everyone in the war room could live with:

-- He filled a definite need (Lawyer Milloy had just recently been released)

-- Reminded many of Bob Sanders, who was an important part of that similar-themed Indy defense

-- Came out of a well renowned college for cranking out DBs (OSU)

-- Was highly recommended by some of the veteran players (London Fletcher among them).

 

Meanwhile, Whitner's agent had smartly worried Marv by suggesting that Whitner would NOT get passed the Ravens, who were picking at 13 -- a spot before the Eagles or Broncos, who had made the trade offers.

 

So, there was plenty of hemming and hawing -- and Marv wound up making the consensus pick, the one with the least "risk". While I do not believe that Whitner has been a total bust, Marv probably made the worst possible choice he could have made:

 

1. The Ravens were going to take Ngata all along. Had the Bills traded down with either Denver or Philly, they could have still landed Whitner AND picked up another high (presumably a 2nd rounder) draft pick.

 

2. Ironoically JP would go on to have a pretty good season in 2006, but the team would have been MUCH better off to this day with Cutler.

 

3. Both Ngata and Bunkley are quality starting DTs.

 

 

 

Great summary! It just goes to show you that bad decisions lead to more bad decisions.

[thewildrabbit]

I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the final decision on that pick was indeed Marv's. It was his first pick as the new GM, and after the Donahoe autocratic style, Marv wanted to place his consensus-style print on the team.

 

At the time, Ngata was indeed the conventional choice, given the big need the team had at DT. However, there was some concern about Ngata's character and the knock on him was that he had a tendency to take plays off. There were also some concerns that Ngata was not an specially good fit for Jauron's new Cover 2 Defense that was looking for more of a penetrator than a run stuffer.

 

Some of the scouts and coaches believed that Broderick Bunkley was a better fit for that scheme.

 

Meanwhile, there was consensus in the war room that the best QB in the draft was Jay Cutler (rather than Vince Young or Matt Leinart), but there was also heated debate about whether or not JP Losman was THE guy.

 

While all of this was going on, both the Broncos (who were picking at 15) and the Eagles (picking at 14) were desperately trying to trade up.

 

Amidst all of the confusion, Whitner was the one player that everyone in the war room could live with:

-- He filled a definite need (Lawyer Milloy had just recently been released)

-- Reminded many of Bob Sanders, who was an important part of that similar-themed Indy defense

-- Came out of a well renowned college for cranking out DBs (OSU)

-- Was highly recommended by some of the veteran players (London Fletcher among them).

 

Meanwhile, Whitner's agent had smartly worried Marv by suggesting that Whitner would NOT get passed the Ravens, who were picking at 13 -- a spot before the Eagles or Broncos, who had made the trade offers.

 

So, there was plenty of hemming and hawing -- and Marv wound up making the consensus pick, the one with the least "risk". While I do not believe that Whitner has been a total bust, Marv probably made the worst possible choice he could have made:

 

1. The Ravens were going to take Ngata all along. Had the Bills traded down with either Denver or Philly, they could have still landed Whitner AND picked up another high (presumably a 2nd rounder) draft pick.

 

2. Ironoically JP would go on to have a pretty good season in 2006, but the team would have been MUCH better off to this day with Cutler.

 

3. Both Ngata and Bunkley are quality starting DTs.

No idea who your "source" could be, I just think that the Whitner pick has the "stink'; of DJ all over it. I think the Bills had targeted Michael Huff in the draft and panicked when the Raiders took him one spot ahead of the Bills. They HAD to replace Lawyer Milloy at safety, so they reached way out there on the Whitner pick. The guy was rated in the 50's and they took him at 8th.

 

Just think, the Bills select Ngata in the first and Roman Harper in the second, the team is set for 10 years at safety and DT

 

 

What does it tell you about the Bills "draft board" when they have players rated as first round picks when other teams have the same players rated as 2nd -3rd round picks. To add to that, what has really changed in the FO from then to now to convince anyone this staff knows what they are doing?

[CookieG]

Ngata is expected to physically dominate the Bills OL.

 

He might not if we had taken some of the other Ravens' picks we passed on:

 

Oher taken 12 spots after Maybin

Flacco taken 8 spots after McKelvin

Grubbs taken 16 spots after Lynch

LeRon McClain taken 16 spots after Dwayne Wright

Ngata taken 4 spots after Whitner

Chris Chester taken 30 spots after McCargo

 

Ozzie must just laugh every year. "OK, let's see who the Bills need and just take the guy they should have taken."

 

Taking all of the picks we passed on and later selected by the Ravens, our O line would be

 

Oher

Levitre

Wood

Grubbs

Chester (or another RT)

 

We'd also have a Pro Bowl defensive lineman and our QB of the present and future.

 

They did beat us to the punch by taking Yanda a few picks before we took Edwards, but why do I have the feeling that wouldn't have happened anyways.

[Brand J]

Wow, he is so open about it too.

 

I guess there was more than just fan speculation that Ngata was in the Bills sights.

 

See how Ngata seems to want to get better at football as opposed to some players that seem to want to look better with their shirt off, Maybi those players should take notes.

 

I know it's used all the time on here - Maybin/Maybinot - but this one made me laugh. Ngata should've been a Bill and it was disgusting when he was passed over. I think our turn for the worse began with the Erik Flowers pick, but at least he was at the end of the 1st round. All of these top 15, top 10, and top 5 picks that we have whiffed on, have been nothing short of miraculous. How does one organization get it wrong sooo many times?!

 

He might not if we had taken some of the other Ravens' picks we passed on:

 

Oher taken 12 spots after Maybin

Flacco taken 8 spots after McKelvin

Grubbs taken 16 spots after Lynch

LeRon McClain taken 16 spots after Dwayne Wright

Ngata taken 4 spots after Whitner

Chris Chester taken 30 spots after McCargo

 

Ozzie must just laugh every year. "OK, let's see who the Bills need and just take the guy they should have taken."

 

Taking all of the picks we passed on and later selected by the Ravens, our O line would be

 

Oher

Levitre

Wood

Grubbs

Chester (or another RT)

 

We'd also have a Pro Bowl defensive lineman and our QB of the present and future.

They did beat us to the punch by taking Yanda a few picks before we took Edwards, but why do I have the feeling that wouldn't have happened anyways.

 

It absolutely WOULDN'T have happened. Do you remember the articles about Marv sweating over the Edwards pick? They wanted Edwards in the worse way and graded him as a late 1st round pick. Edwards easily would've been selected with the higher 3rd, had that pick not been traded to move up to select McCargo.

[CookieG]

It absolutely WOULDN'T have happened. Do you remember the articles about Marv sweating over the Edwards pick? They wanted Edwards in the worse way and graded him as a late 1st round pick. Edwards easily would've been selected with the higher 3rd, had that pick not been traded to move up to select McCargo.

 

Of course it wouldn't have happened. Why grab an OL in the first 3 rounds when you can get some schmuck in the 7th, and tell everyone how much of a steal the guy is.

[EastRochBillsfan]

I want the Buffalo Bills to come clean and say WHO pushed the Whitner pick through? Was it Marv? Was it Modrak? WHO was the genius that decided Ngata was not who we needed? I want a real answer, dammit. No offense intended to Whitner -- you probably couldn't see it coming that you'd be taken at the 8th pick. But I want a NAME -- none of this -- "it was the scouting department" or "Ralph always gets the final say-so" or that BS. I want to know WHO said "No, fellas, we're going to take Whitner". If that individual is not already gone, it's time to make that happen.

 

I'm with you on this. I would really like to know who to blame. Everyone always calls for Modraks head and I don't want to say I defend him, but I just can't condemm him until I know who made the call. And that goes for maybin as well. I happen to believe it was marv/jauron who made the boneheaded move and bypassed Ngota but that is just speculation. Someone reading tsw should be able to find this out. maybe some of the local writers like sullivan or mathews read here? That would be a great question for someone to find out for us. get on it guys!

[greenmohawk]

ditto that they needed a safety big time. it was nate clemens that recomended donte to marv, gushing about his weight room ethic and speed from when they worked out ohio state.

[ChasBB]

I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the final decision on that pick was indeed Marv's. It was his first pick as the new GM, and after the Donahoe autocratic style, Marv wanted to place his consensus-style print on the team.

 

At the time, Ngata was indeed the conventional choice, given the big need the team had at DT. However, there was some concern about Ngata's character and the knock on him was that he had a tendency to take plays off. There were also some concerns that Ngata was not an specially good fit for Jauron's new Cover 2 Defense that was looking for more of a penetrator than a run stuffer.

 

Some of the scouts and coaches believed that Broderick Bunkley was a better fit for that scheme.

 

Meanwhile, there was consensus in the war room that the best QB in the draft was Jay Cutler (rather than Vince Young or Matt Leinart), but there was also heated debate about whether or not JP Losman was THE guy.

 

While all of this was going on, both the Broncos (who were picking at 15) and the Eagles (picking at 14) were desperately trying to trade up.

 

Amidst all of the confusion, Whitner was the one player that everyone in the war room could live with:

-- He filled a definite need (Lawyer Milloy had just recently been released)

-- Reminded many of Bob Sanders, who was an important part of that similar-themed Indy defense

-- Came out of a well renowned college for cranking out DBs (OSU)

-- Was highly recommended by some of the veteran players (London Fletcher among them).

 

Meanwhile, Whitner's agent had smartly worried Marv by suggesting that Whitner would NOT get passed the Ravens, who were picking at 13 -- a spot before the Eagles or Broncos, who had made the trade offers.

 

So, there was plenty of hemming and hawing -- and Marv wound up making the consensus pick, the one with the least "risk". While I do not believe that Whitner has been a total bust, Marv probably made the worst possible choice he could have made:

 

1. The Ravens were going to take Ngata all along. Had the Bills traded down with either Denver or Philly, they could have still landed Whitner AND picked up another high (presumably a 2nd rounder) draft pick.

 

2. Ironoically JP would go on to have a pretty good season in 2006, but the team would have been MUCH better off to this day with Cutler.

 

3. Both Ngata and Bunkley are quality starting DTs.

Nice review of what went down. I suspect your sources are valid. I believe it was Marv, too. Modrak probably was against the pick and perhaps didn't want to "rock the boat". One of those things I suppose we'll never know.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Nice review of what went down. I suspect your sources are valid. I believe it was Marv, too. Modrak probably was against the pick and perhaps didn't want to "rock the boat". One of those things I suppose we'll never know.

Has there ever been a pick in any draft where Modrak was in a war room since 1998 (other than Donovan McNabb) that Mr. Modrak was actually in favor of later on?

 

Hint: Despite the revisionism, Modrak initially praised Aaron Maybin as a good solid pick.

 

Hes good on both sides of the ball, right or left defensive end which is not always the case for players, said Modrak. His quick first step is equally good on both sides of the ball. And he can run. When he gets in the open field he can chase you down. Hes a speed rusher and can get up the field. He plays very, very hard all the time. Talking to their people there he has the same mentality in practice. The combination of those things made it good for us.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-take-pass-rusher-Maybin/14658d98-47ca-4db6-9944-c260ae5e98e9

Edited October 21, 2010 by Sisyphean Bills

[Dennis in NC]

If the guy who didn't take Ngata is STILL with the organization, then is this REALLY in the past? That's why I want to know Modrak's role here. *IF* Modrak was instrumental in bypassing Ngata, then I want Modrak out of here. If Modrak wanted Ngata, but was overruled by Levy or by committee, or whatever, then Modrak gets a pass. That's why I want NAMES. It is time for the people responsible for past draft debacles to be held accountable (yes, fired, if need be).

Well, good luck getting any accountability out of those guys!

 

I can just picture Dick Jauron saying that this agile 6'4" 340-pound beast "does not fit our Tampa-too system". Auuuggghhh!!!!

 

Or maybe LT Ryan Clady instead of bust-mode Lynch.

 

Oh well, it's not worth getting an ulcer over those front office clowns.

[Red]

I want the Buffalo Bills to come clean and say WHO pushed the Whitner pick through? Was it Marv? Was it Modrak? WHO was the genius that decided Ngata was not who we needed? I want a real answer, dammit. No offense intended to Whitner -- you probably couldn't see it coming that you'd be taken at the 8th pick. But I want a NAME -- none of this -- "it was the scouting department" or "Ralph always gets the final say-so" or that BS. I want to know WHO said "No, fellas, we're going to take Whitner". If that individual is not already gone, it's time to make that happen.

 

Ouch!

 

This one really hurts, as it is from Mr. Ngata himself.

 

I, too, would like the Bills to come clean with who is making these boneheaded decisions in the "brain trust".

 

No offense to Whitner- whom I think is a good safety- but in terms of overall team need, Ngata fit and still fits more of what is needed on our time than Whitner does.

 

Has there ever been a pick in any draft where Modrak was in a war room since 1998 (other than Donovan McNabb) that Mr. Modrak was actually in favor of later on?

 

Hint: Despite the revisionism, Modrak initially praised Aaron Maybin as a good solid pick.

 

 

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-take-pass-rusher-Maybin/14658d98-47ca-4db6-9944-c260ae5e98e9

 

 

Eek, gads. Modrak does not know how to scout players.

 

Period.

[BillsVet]

Well, Raiders are run by a nutty old guy also. Detroit will take time to recover the Millen mess.

 

And no. Why?

 

At least those teams have one or two solid guys, Calvin Johnson in Detroit and Nnamdi Asomugha in Oakland. Buffalo has not one established game-changer opponents plan around.

 

If I remember some of the wrods correctly, we pased on him because in our "new" tampa Two defense we wanted small, quick D-tackles. How did that work out for us? Poor decision making up and down the line for the Bills

 

Yeah, and in 2008 the Bills traded for their big DT in Stroud. Their big UFA acquisition in 06, Tripplett, had just been cut, McCargo was in the fast-lane to bustdom, and the team had allowed more than 120 rypg in 06 and 07. So much for smaller quicker. That strategy is killing their transition to a 3-4, which BTW is allowing 185 rypg now. I can't imagine having Ngata in the middle of a 3-4 or 4-3 with decent LB's free to make tackles.

Edited October 22, 2010 by BillsVet

[Red]

I know it's used all the time on here - Maybin/Maybinot - but this one made me laugh. Ngata should've been a Bill and it was disgusting when he was passed over. I think our turn for the worse began with the Erik Flowers pick, but at least he was at the end of the 1st round. All of these top 15, top 10, and top 5 picks that we have whiffed on, have been nothing short of miraculous. How does one organization get it wrong sooo many times?!

 

 

One Word: MODRAK!!!!

[notwoz]

Let it all go. It's in the past. Nothing we can do about it now.

Agreed. Does anyone think that whining about mistakes made in the past are going to make tomorrow any better?