OK, before we get into the revisionist history

[Bowl Winner]

I've thought about this all day and the more I think about it the more upset I get with the front office management at 1 Bills Drive. You're upset with them? Oh no, they just have a team of bad players, you say? Nonsense! These guys can't draft and when they have any players of note that want to be paid, you can just forget them.

 

Lets think about this. Before we started the season we knew we needed two offensive tackles. Brad Butler had retired and Bell not only suffered a knee injury and was not thought to be a starting caliber tackle in this league. We could have found a tackle in free agency and at least one if not both new tackles in the draft. So who do we pick number 1? Spiller! Now don't get me wrong I like Spiller but with Jackson and Lynch on the roster he was a luxury pick. Yeah but we can build for the future with Spiller, you say? I say you don't put the dry wall up until you've nailed on the sheeting. This team needs a foundation and that starts in the trenches.

 

We got rid of Jason Peters because the guy wasn't a first round pick out of Offensive Tackle University. He was an un-drafted free agent tight end converted tackle who just happened to be a hell of a lot better than that first round bust Mike Williams. Could we then pay Peters to stay? Nope. We didn't pay Pat Williams to stay for the same reason and we still don't have a D-Tackle that's a pimple on Pats but.

 

I'm going to say it because we have all already forgotten last years game 1 against the Patriots. Did Trent Edwards look good in that game? Yes he did, because he actually had time to throw the ball. He cant think on his feet the way Fitzpatrick can and he's not an improvisor, but if you give him the time he can throw the ball and make plays. So who was the scapegoat for the fact that the front office was too stupid to get any decent tackles in? Not the brain trust. It was Edwards. I'm not saying Edwards was Joe Montana, but he never had a chance to be any good because the Bills didn't give him an O-line to ever find that out. My guess is that Edwards will get a second chance and when he does he may make us look even dumber than we are.

 

Now to the Defense. Hey everyone lets switch to a 34 defense even though we don't have any of the front seven personnel on the roster to do it. Lets make Marcus Stroud a defensive end. Undersized Kyle Williams (The best D-lineman we have) can play on the nose. We'll get some guy who has a cadaver vertebrae in his neck (Dwan Edwards)to play on the other side, and then the guy we dratted as a defensive end (Alex Carrington) wont even dress. Instead will play another first round bust (John McCargo )who also is a converted tackle in that position! Genius!

 

Linebackers? Dont even get me started. Maybin (another first round joke), and Chris Kelsay! LMAO! Maybe we can start the undersized and one of the best we have at the position in Ellison, or the other first round pick that's constantly broken in Pozlusny! No worries. The new D coordinator (Edwards) has this under control. Just don't tell the Jets that or they'll have 1000 yards rushing against us in 4 games.

 

So what's with the secondary? Well besides yet another 1st round pick in Whitner, who Fewell was smart enough to replace with George Wilson, is back on the field, and now the DB's have to cover for so long because the front seven cant generate any pressure that the opposing receivers have time to adjust on the ball, and we cant get any picks.

 

This team, the team I love and refuse to watch again until they can win a game, is a model of mismanagement. My 10 year old daughter could have picked better players at random, and put them in a better position to win! This front office is in total confusion mode!

 

This years draft class:

 

Spiller. Decent pick but not what we needed.

Troup. Anyone seen him?

Carrington. "" ""

Easley. Injured

Wang. Injured

Moats. Injured

Batten. Injured

Brown. Cut, none else wanted him, re-signed

Calloway. Released

 

Number one picks over the past several years:

 

Aaron Maybin

Eric Wood

Leodis McKelvin

Marshawn Lynch

Donte Whitner

John McCargo

Lee Evans

J.P. Losman

Willis McGahee

Mike Williams

Nate Clements

Erik Flowers

 

4 out of 11 hits aint bad!

[DrDawkinstein]

speaking of revisionist history....

[Bowl Winner]

speaking of revisionist history....

 

Great come back! Wow! Now where am I wrong here?

[DrDawkinstein]

Great come back! Wow! Now where am I wrong here?

 

at least once in every paragraph except the one about the LBs.

 

and you're on a completely different planet with regards to the Peters situation.

 

but i understand, you have to get it all out cause this franchise is hurting you so badly. so run with it.

 

Circle the Wambulances.

[Malazan]

Great come back! Wow! Now where am I wrong here?

 

It would be easier to say where you're right:

[NaPolian8693]

tldr;

[Bowl Winner]

at least once in every paragraph except the one about the LBs.

 

and you're on a completely different planet with regards to the Peters situation.

 

but i understand, you have to get it all out cause this franchise is hurting you so badly. so run with it.

 

Circle the Wambulances.

 

at least once in every paragraph except the one about the LBs.

 

and you're on a completely different planet with regards to the Peters situation.

 

but i understand, you have to get it all out cause this franchise is hurting you so badly. so run with it.

 

Circle the Wambulances.

 

Yes, but of course you have no specifics. Peters was a jerk. Ill take a jerk over Bell and Green any day.

[DrDawkinstein]

Yes, but of course you have no specifics. Peters was a jerk. Ill take a jerk over Bell and Green any day.

 

your post was almost too long to READ, let alone pick through and respond to each incorrect statement.

 

you were right about the LBs, other than that, I think youre going to find a lot of disagreement.

[Bowl Winner]

your post was almost too long to READ, let alone pick through and respond to each incorrect statement.

 

you were right about the LBs, other than that, I think youre going to find a lot of disagreement.

 

Buddy Nix? Is that you? I thought it was doctor humpindunk. Youre right. We didnt need any tackles. Ill go back to sleep now.

[MattyT]

Buddy Nix? Is that you? I thought it was doctor humpindunk. Youre right. We didnt need any tackles. Ill go back to sleep now.

Why should anyone with any self-respect reply to you when this is the type of juvenile response they are likely to get?

[tennesseeboy]

yeah..you were right about the linebackers. Come to think about it, you were right about the offensive line. Let me look at this again...oh..you were right about the defensive line...ooh...yeahhhh...right about the draft picks too.

[Bowl Winner]

Why should anyone with any self-respect reply to you when this is the type of juvenile response they are likely to get?

 

Yeah youre right. I was kind of a jerk there. I just felt like the guy was giving me the drive by rather than actually reading what I had to say and giving constructive feedback. My bad though. Youre right.

[DrDawkinstein]

Yeah youre right. I was kind of a jerk there. I just felt like the guy was giving me the drive by rather than actually reading what I had to say and giving constructive feedback. My bad though. Youre right.

 

i admitted to only being able to do a drive by right now. and ive agreed with you on the LBs. youre not wrong in EVERY statement. but for someone calling out revisionist history, there sure is a lot of your own opinion on how things went down rather than the facts. if possible, ill pick through later.

[Bowl Winner]

i admitted to only being able to do a drive by right now. and ive agreed with you on the LBs. youre not wrong in EVERY statement. but for someone calling out revisionist history, there sure is a lot of your own opinion on how things went down rather than the facts. if possible, ill pick through later.

 

Sounds good amigo

[mary owen]

I find nothing wrong in all the OP's points. Funny how the one's saying he is wrong can't constructively counter those points.

[FightinIrishBills]

I've thought about this all day and the more I think about it the more upset I get with the front office management at 1 Bills Drive. You're upset with them? Oh no, they just have a team of bad players, you say? Nonsense! These guys can't draft and when they have any players of note that want to be paid, you can just forget them.

 

Lets think about this. Before we started the season we knew we needed two offensive tackles. Brad Butler had retired and Bell not only suffered a knee injury and was not thought to be a starting caliber tackle in this league. We could have found a tackle in free agency and at least one if not both new tackles in the draft. So who do we pick number 1? Spiller! Now don't get me wrong I like Spiller but with Jackson and Lynch on the roster he was a luxury pick. Yeah but we can build for the future with Spiller, you say? I say you don't put the dry wall up until you've nailed on the sheeting. This team needs a foundation and that starts in the trenches.

 

We got rid of Jason Peters because the guy wasn't a first round pick out of Offensive Tackle University. He was an un-drafted free agent tight end converted tackle who just happened to be a hell of a lot better than that first round bust Mike Williams. Could we then pay Peters to stay? Nope. We didn't pay Pat Williams to stay for the same reason and we still don't have a D-Tackle that's a pimple on Pats but.

 

I'm going to say it because we have all already forgotten last years game 1 against the Patriots. Did Trent Edwards look good in that game? Yes he did, because he actually had time to throw the ball. He cant think on his feet the way Fitzpatrick can and he's not an improvisor, but if you give him the time he can throw the ball and make plays. So who was the scapegoat for the fact that the front office was too stupid to get any decent tackles in? Not the brain trust. It was Edwards. I'm not saying Edwards was Joe Montana, but he never had a chance to be any good because the Bills didn't give him an O-line to ever find that out. My guess is that Edwards will get a second chance and when he does he may make us look even dumber than we are.

 

Now to the Defense. Hey everyone lets switch to a 34 defense even though we don't have any of the front seven personnel on the roster to do it. Lets make Marcus Stroud a defensive end. Undersized Kyle Williams (The best D-lineman we have) can play on the nose. We'll get some guy who has a cadaver vertebrae in his neck (Dwan Edwards)to play on the other side, and then the guy we dratted as a defensive end (Alex Carrington) wont even dress. Instead will play another first round bust (John McCargo )who also is a converted tackle in that position! Genius!

 

Linebackers? Dont even get me started. Maybin (another first round joke), and Chris Kelsay! LMAO! Maybe we can start the undersized and one of the best we have at the position in Ellison, or the other first round pick that's constantly broken in Pozlusny! No worries. The new D coordinator (Edwards) has this under control. Just don't tell the Jets that or they'll have 1000 yards rushing against us in 4 games.

 

So what's with the secondary? Well besides yet another 1st round pick in Whitner, who Fewell was smart enough to replace with George Wilson, is back on the field, and now the DB's have to cover for so long because the front seven cant generate any pressure that the opposing receivers have time to adjust on the ball, and we cant get any picks.

 

This team, the team I love and refuse to watch again until they can win a game, is a model of mismanagement. My 10 year old daughter could have picked better players at random, and put them in a better position to win! This front office is in total confusion mode!

 

This years draft class:

 

Spiller. Decent pick but not what we needed.

Troup. Anyone seen him?

Carrington. "" ""

Easley. Injured

Wang. Injured

Moats. Injured

Batten. Injured

Brown. Cut, none else wanted him, re-signed

Calloway. Released

 

Number one picks over the past several years:

 

Aaron Maybin

Eric Wood

Leodis McKelvin

Marshawn Lynch

Donte Whitner

John McCargo

Lee Evans

J.P. Losman

Willis McGahee

Mike Williams

Nate Clements

Erik Flowers

 

4 out of 11 hits aint bad!

 

1.) RE: Offensive tackles. Please explain to me, in detail, who you would've taken to solve the problems at OL and LT. Who would you have picked up in free agency? Flozell Adams? Who would you have taken over Spiller? The Bills are notorious for their reach picks, and yet, when they take the absolute, no doubt highest player available on the board, they're getting bashed. Fact is, Marshawn was on the outs one way or the other, with either his contract situation or his off-the-field behavior. CJ Spiller was a rare gem of a college talent, the type I believe Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix would really like to build a team around.

 

2.) No, we got rid of Jason Peters because he: A.)was underperforming, B.)was being overpaid with regards to his poor performance, and C.)wanted out of Buffalo. Please let me know where this mythical "Offensive Tackle University" is. If you're implying that just because Peters wasn't a stud LT coming up through the ranks doesn't mean he wasn't paid fairly for his high performance, then that's just foolish. Good players get paid.

 

3.) RE: Edwards. Well actually, if you remember correctly, it was the hold-out of the above mentioned LT who was, arguably, seriously detrimental to the development of Trent Edwards. Do you really think that the O-Line would have looked nearly as bad as it did 2 years ago if Peters hadn't held out? Regardless, the QB/OL debate is as old as the chicken/egg argument. A good quarterback has to be able to make plays. It was clear that in this point in his career, Edwards no longer had the vision or even desire to make plays happen here in Buffalo. Whether he's able to do that somewhere else is yet to be seen.

 

4.) Tell you what, I'll let you go coach a pro defense where you have to evaluate the talent at hand and then effectively implement a defensive scheme. In my opinion, the defense was going to look a lot worse this year for circumstances beyond the 3-4. Folks don't like to admit it much, but losing Aaron Schobel was a big hit for this unit. Meanwhile, injuries to key players, especially the linebacker corps, definitely hurt. I'm not particularly impressed by the defense so far, but 4 games in, I'm not going into hysterics. They hung in there with the Dolphins in game 1, and played a solid first half against the Packers. Meanwhile, both the Patriots and the Jets have proven this year to be legitimate playoff, if not championship contenders. No, it doesn't completely excuse poor performance, but forgive me if I'm willing to ride out some of the (what should have been) expected growing pains.

 

Obviously the LBs are circumspect, but I chalk a lot of that to injury at this point. What moves would you have liked them to make? Trade Marshawn for another mediocre LB (A.J. Hawk)? The secondary has been serviceable up to this point, considering the lack of a pass rush.

 

5.) You're right. Put up names on a dartboard and chuck darts up there. That'll get you a 6 game winner. Yeah, it's trite and reeks of Jauron, but it's true: it is extremely difficult to win in the NFL. Honestly, a lot of it is coaching and a lot of it is luck. You can only scout so much, but you don't really know how certain styles of play are going to gel together. There have been some great individual talents, but I truly believe that nothing great exists in a vacuum. It takes a lot of moving parts to get an NFL team functioning at a high level. The Bills need to find the parts to put that together.

 

6.) RE: Draft picks. Well, what do you propose we do about those injuries? I truly believe that a good deal of the problem with the Jauron era fell in the realm of poor strength and conditioning. However, we only figured that out over 5 years. The sample size with Gailey's drafting is simply too small to make an adequate judgment. If you recall, however, Easley was going to be a component of the offense into this coming year. Wang was definitely going to be part of the OL rotation in some way. Danny Batten was also getting looks. And I think we'll see more of Troup as the season goes on. Same goes with Carrington.

 

I will give you that the Bills have had a poor history with drafting this past decade, at least in the first round. But it's a knee-jerk reaction to judge this latest draft class 4 games into the regime's first season. Gailey and Nix didn't draft those guys, so at least try to judge them on their merits.

 

 

 

If that rant made you feel better, than by all means, go ahead. But don't expect us all to buy what you're selling.

[Thoner7]

I also was thinking back the other day, to all the players I really wanted during the draft:

2006 I was all Ngata. When we traded back up for McCargo, I couldnt believe we passed on Mnagold. We should have resigned Big Pat and Fletcher too.

2007 they overplayed teh RB need. I wanted us to take the then injured Michael Bush. I was hoping the Bills would leapfrog the 9ers for Willis because I knew they are gonna take him cause of singletary. After we missed on that I said we should take Beason.

2008 We should have resigned Greer and not taken an CB. But it was painfully obvious to ma that DRC was the ebst CB available. Then I wanted Limas Sweed

2009 I hate Maybin, and am a huge longhorn Fan. Im still angreed we dont have E. Brown too. And We never should have accepted Phillys second 1st round pick. If he had their 21 we could of had Oher.

2010 Anyone other than Spiller would have been nice. Bulaga/Graham/Iupati/even Tebow would have been better. Clausen in the 1nd round? Talk about a no brainer. 3rd round should have been jerry, who Miami took and is now their starting G. Shoulda tendered Incognito too.

 

- Its funny, none of these are in hindsight, thats who I wanted at the time. I believe most of these were agreed on by a majority of the fans too (maybe no 2010, but 2006 and 2008, definately 2009)

[thewildrabbit]

1.) RE: Offensive tackles. Please explain to me, in detail, who you would've taken to solve the problems at OL and LT. Who would you have picked up in free agency? Flozell Adams? Who would you have taken over Spiller? The Bills are notorious for their reach picks, and yet, when they take the absolute, no doubt highest player available on the board, they're getting bashed. Fact is, Marshawn was on the outs one way or the other, with either his contract situation or his off-the-field behavior. CJ Spiller was a rare gem of a college talent, the type I believe Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix would really like to build a team around.

Spiller was indeed a luxury pick considering this team had so many huge holes QB-WR-RT-LT-C-OLB. This new HC didn't re-sign TO, and cut Josh Reed, 2 starting receivers gone. This team could have easily addressed any one of those positions of need by trading back a few spots and plus picking up extra draft picks in the process. Almost any tackle taken in the first few round would be better then Cornell Green is at RT. Drafting the pure best player available is simply stupid, what if the best player is a DB 10 years in a row. You draft best player available in the biggest areas of need.

 

2.) No, we got rid of Jason Peters because he: A.)was underperforming, B.)was being overpaid with regards to his poor performance, and C.)wanted out of Buffalo. Please let me know where this mythical "Offensive Tackle University" is. If you're implying that just because Peters wasn't a stud LT coming up through the ranks doesn't mean he wasn't paid fairly for his high performance, then that's just foolish. Good players get paid.

I can see the OP point about free agents and this team, Fred Jackson was lucky he got a chance to even show his stuff over all the other wasted picks at RB who were getting all the carries. Jason Peters was and is still better then any O linemen the Bills have had this entire decade, The Bills screwed themselves by overpaying Walker and Dockery more then their own only pro bowl linemen. This franchise has a history of not ponying up the bucks to FA's, and it has a history of keeping high draft choices over obviously better talent. The reason Jason Peters play fell off was the same reason Walkers and Dockery's play fell off....the vet OL coach retires and they promote an assistant who stunk, he also screwed up the protections and got Trent Edwards concussed two years in a row.

 

3.) RE: Edwards. Well actually, if you remember correctly, it was the hold-out of the above mentioned LT who was, arguably, seriously detrimental to the development of Trent Edwards. Do you really think that the O-Line would have looked nearly as bad as it did 2 years ago if Peters hadn't held out? Regardless, the QB/OL debate is as old as the chicken/egg argument. A good quarterback has to be able to make plays. It was clear that in this point in his career, Edwards no longer had the vision or even desire to make plays happen here in Buffalo. Whether he's able to do that somewhere else is yet to be seen.

I couldn't agree more with the OP point about Trent Edwards, my thoughts were why the !@#$ did they even keep him if they weren't going to upgrade the O line,Clearly they didn't watch the last 3 years games, sheer stupidity!! Jauron the moron always had the idea that the QB's job is to make all the plays and win games, even when the running game is broken. Chan Gailey looks to have that exact same moronic view! HTF did he expect Edwards to throw with only 2 seconds to get rid of the ball, even then the Dolphins were decking him. The Steelers-Falcons-Ravens all built strong running games to support their new QBs, Big Ben is a perfect example of how to develop a QB

 

4.) Tell you what, I'll let you go coach a pro defense where you have to evaluate the talent at hand and then effectively implement a defensive scheme. In my opinion, the defense was going to look a lot worse this year for circumstances beyond the 3-4. Folks don't like to admit it much, but losing Aaron Schobel was a big hit for this unit. Meanwhile, injuries to key players, especially the linebacker corps, definitely hurt. I'm not particularly impressed by the defense so far, but 4 games in, I'm not going into hysterics. They hung in there with the Dolphins in game 1, and played a solid first half against the Packers. Meanwhile, both the Patriots and the Jets have proven this year to be legitimate playoff, if not championship contenders. No, it doesn't completely excuse poor performance, but forgive me if I'm willing to ride out some of the (what should have been) expected growing pains.

 

Obviously the LBs are circumspect, but I chalk a lot of that to injury at this point. What moves would you have liked them to make? Trade Marshawn for another mediocre LB (A.J. Hawk)? The secondary has been serviceable up to this point, considering the lack of a pass rush.

 

You have to admit that the offense was so bad last season that it was the biggest area of need by far, the defense could have waited a year to be completely retooled. The Bills could have kept playing the 4-3 and drafted for the offense this year. Another failing of this head coach is that he hired a very few experienced NFL coaches for his assistants

 

5.) You're right. Put up names on a dartboard and chuck darts up there. That'll get you a 6 game winner. Yeah, it's trite and reeks of Jauron, but it's true: it is extremely difficult to win in the NFL. Honestly, a lot of it is coaching and a lot of it is luck. You can only scout so much, but you don't really know how certain styles of play are going to gel together. There have been some great individual talents, but I truly believe that nothing great exists in a vacuum. It takes a lot of moving parts to get an NFL team functioning at a high level. The Bills need to find the parts to put that together.

 

6.) RE: Draft picks. Well, what do you propose we do about those injuries? I truly believe that a good deal of the problem with the Jauron era fell in the realm of poor strength and conditioning. However, we only figured that out over 5 years. The sample size with Gailey's drafting is simply too small to make an adequate judgment. If you recall, however, Easley was going to be a component of the offense into this coming year. Wang was definitely going to be part of the OL rotation in some way. Danny Batten was also getting looks. And I think we'll see more of Troup as the season goes on. Same goes with Carrington.

 

I will give you that the Bills have had a poor history with drafting this past decade, at least in the first round. But it's a knee-jerk reaction to judge this latest draft class 4 games into the regime's first season. Gailey and Nix didn't draft those guys, so at least try to judge them on their merits.

 

I'm not sold on any of this years draft picks so far, most are injured and not on the field. Spiller has done nothing in regards to actually running the ball, 4 games 14 attempts 49 yards vs what Jahvid Best has done for the Detroit Lions...

 

If that rant made you feel better, than by all means, go ahead. But don't expect us all to buy what you're selling.

 

To sum it up, I get the OP's frustration with the Bills FO and current regime. It seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Buddy Nix:

Free Agent RT Cornell Green at 3 million a year...

 

Chris Kelsay a 25 million dollar extension

 

Trading away Marshawn Lynch for a 4th now when they could have made this move during last years draft and picked up a 4th rounder they could have used this year. Not to mention the fact that the Bills lost Joique Bell to the Eagles in the process, sheer stupidity.

 

Chan Gailey:

The guy works with Trent Edwards all off season, OTA's, mini camp, training camp, preseason games and defends him from hecklers "you dog one of us, you dog all of us" Calls him ""one tough guy"" after he watches him chip a tooth when he got sacked in preseason.Then cuts the guy after only two games...

Just to show you how completely clueless this man was about his own offense, when asked by the media why Edwards was able to drive down the field for a TD with 8 min to go in the game, and yet he struggled the entire rest of the game, the coach had no answer.

He was asked after the Green Bay game why Lee Evans didn't catch any passes, he stated to the media he didn't know because he had called plays for Evans and they weren't completed.

I'll tell you why, Edwards had only 2 seconds to get rid of the ball in most of that Miami game, even when he did complete a pass in the first few series he was getting hit from his blindside by an UNBLOCKED LB. The Dolphins were spying Spiller and run blitzing to shut him down, much to their surprise the Bills had no ability to block for the pass or run, so they kept blitzing all game ....right up until that TD drive in which Edwards overcame a sack and a false start by Cornell Green to hit Parish with a 31 yard TD strike on 4th and 11. What Chan failed to realize is that by keeping Edwards in shotgun for 75% of the offensive plays in that game he was telling the Dolphins we are going to pass, try and stop us. That is exactly what they did, by blitzing the LB's from the outside and kept pressure on Edwards most of the game In that last TD drive Chan went all out with a 5 WR spread set and the Dolphins changed their defense in a dime coverage and stopped blitzing with the LB's. He opened up the offense even more and forced the Dolphins into dropping into coverage to stop from being beaten by a big play.

 

This style of offense was so reminiscent of how Turk Schonert ran an offense under Jauron, no running game and forcing the QB to try and make all the offensive plays. How many times did we see the RB get hit in the backfield as soon as he got the hand-off, on almost every running play that happened. It is why he had 7 attempts for 6 yards in that game, his longest run was 6 yards so he was only successful on ONE running play

 

The Green Bay game was different in the fact that Gailey actually tried to run the ball more with Marshawn Lynch, and the Bills were somewhat successful on ONE drive with 17 rushes for 64 yards for the game, 14 yard run the longest. the main difference was that the Bills really weren't very successful running the ball the entire game and kept putting Edwards in long yardage situations trying to make a first down, this made him a very easy target for the GB pass rush, particularly Clay Mathews. Steve Johnson was also benched after this game in favor of Parish as the second wideout in 2 WR formations.

 

Make no mistake that Trent Edwards was made a scape goat by throwing him behind a bad O line with only one decent receiver. did Edwards stink it up in those first two games...you bet! Was it entirely his fault...no way. He deserved to be benched, he didn't deserve to be cut. Bottom line Chan Gailey hurt the Bills by cutting him, what happens if Fitz gets a serious injury playing behind that crappy O line and then the Bills find out Brohm can't play .

 

Gailey really did Edwards a favor by cutting him... he still gets his 1.6 mill .... now he gets to play backup on a team that can actually run the ball...a team that has a good tight end that can block and catch. Plus he is now in a position to sit back and watch and learn under a real offensive coordinator for the first time in his career.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Obviously the LBs are circumspect

 

(lots of reasoned opinion ruthlessly snipped)

 

cir·cum·spect [sur-kuhm-spekt]

–adjective

1.

watchful and discreet; cautious; prudent: circumspect behavior.

2.

well-considered: circumspect ambition.

 

Now I get the problem.

Our LB are "watchful and discreet; cautious; prudent" instead of "wrap him up and pound his ass so far into the turf he'll need a shovel to find it"

 

Uncertain our linebackers are well-considered. I was thinking they were more "well, what did you expect us to be able to get?"

[spartacus]

I also was thinking back the other day, to all the players I really wanted during the draft:

2006 I was all Ngata.  When we traded back up for McCargo, I couldnt believe we passed on Mnagold. We should have resigned Big Pat and Fletcher too.

2007 they overplayed teh RB need.  I wanted us to take the then injured Michael Bush.  I was hoping the Bills would leapfrog the 9ers for Willis because I knew they are gonna take him cause of singletary.  After we missed on that I said we should take Beason.

2008 We should have resigned Greer and not taken an CB.  But it was painfully obvious to ma that DRC was the ebst CB available.  Then I wanted Limas Sweed

2009 I hate Maybin, and am a huge longhorn Fan.  Im still angreed we dont have E. Brown too.  And We never should have accepted Phillys second 1st round pick.  If he had their 21 we could of had Oher.

2010 Anyone other than Spiller would have been nice.  Bulaga/Graham/Iupati/even Tebow would have been better.  Clausen in the 1nd round? Talk about a no brainer.  3rd round should have been jerry, who Miami took and is now their starting G.  Shoulda tendered Incognito too.

 

- Its funny, none of these are in hindsight, thats who I wanted at the time.  I believe most of these were agreed on by a majority of the fans too (maybe no 2010, but 2006 and 2008, definately 2009)

"And We never should have accepted Phillys second 1st round pick.  If he had their 21 we could of had Oher."

"Accepted" is the right word - because Philly offered the higher #1  - but the Bills rejected it and took the lower pick plus the extra 4th rounder

 

 

more picks is better is the Bills mantra

 

quality players be damned

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob in STL]

yeah..you were right about the linebackers. Come to think about it, you were right about the offensive line. Let me look at this again...oh..you were right about the defensive line...ooh...yeahhhh...right about the draft picks too.

 

 

He is right about a lot of things. Unfortunately everything he says has been covered 1000 times before.

 

No summary and no ideas.

[bowery4]

You sound like JS only you don't write as well and you want us to criticize it bit by bit and the argue w/ you about it. No thanks!

Personally I guess I am just getting sick of this aspect of the board. Hope you feel better about it and try to spend more time loving the people around you rather than thinking about all this negative stuff so obsessively.

 

BTW did some one say our LBs are circumcised?

 

Oh an one more thing history is never facts, it is written by the winners.

Edited October 9, 2010 by bowery4

[Thoner7]

1.) RE: Offensive tackles. Please explain to me, in detail, who you would've taken to solve the problems at OL and LT. Who would you have picked up in free agency? Flozell Adams? Who would you have taken over Spiller? The Bills are notorious for their reach picks, and yet, when they take the absolute, no doubt highest player available on the board, they're getting bashed. Fact is, Marshawn was on the outs one way or the other, with either his contract situation or his off-the-field behavior. CJ Spiller was a rare gem of a college talent, the type I believe Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix would really like to build a team around.

 

2.) No, we got rid of Jason Peters because he: A.)was underperforming, B.)was being overpaid with regards to his poor performance, and C.)wanted out of Buffalo. Please let me know where this mythical "Offensive Tackle University" is. If you're implying that just because Peters wasn't a stud LT coming up through the ranks doesn't mean he wasn't paid fairly for his high performance, then that's just foolish. Good players get paid.

 

3.) RE: Edwards. Well actually, if you remember correctly, it was the hold-out of the above mentioned LT who was, arguably, seriously detrimental to the development of Trent Edwards. Do you really think that the O-Line would have looked nearly as bad as it did 2 years ago if Peters hadn't held out? Regardless, the QB/OL debate is as old as the chicken/egg argument. A good quarterback has to be able to make plays. It was clear that in this point in his career, Edwards no longer had the vision or even desire to make plays happen here in Buffalo. Whether he's able to do that somewhere else is yet to be seen.

 

4.) Tell you what, I'll let you go coach a pro defense where you have to evaluate the talent at hand and then effectively implement a defensive scheme. In my opinion, the defense was going to look a lot worse this year for circumstances beyond the 3-4. Folks don't like to admit it much, but losing Aaron Schobel was a big hit for this unit. Meanwhile, injuries to key players, especially the linebacker corps, definitely hurt. I'm not particularly impressed by the defense so far, but 4 games in, I'm not going into hysterics. They hung in there with the Dolphins in game 1, and played a solid first half against the Packers. Meanwhile, both the Patriots and the Jets have proven this year to be legitimate playoff, if not championship contenders. No, it doesn't completely excuse poor performance, but forgive me if I'm willing to ride out some of the (what should have been) expected growing pains.

 

Obviously the LBs are circumspect, but I chalk a lot of that to injury at this point. What moves would you have liked them to make? Trade Marshawn for another mediocre LB (A.J. Hawk)? The secondary has been serviceable up to this point, considering the lack of a pass rush.

 

5.) You're right. Put up names on a dartboard and chuck darts up there. That'll get you a 6 game winner. Yeah, it's trite and reeks of Jauron, but it's true: it is extremely difficult to win in the NFL. Honestly, a lot of it is coaching and a lot of it is luck. You can only scout so much, but you don't really know how certain styles of play are going to gel together. There have been some great individual talents, but I truly believe that nothing great exists in a vacuum. It takes a lot of moving parts to get an NFL team functioning at a high level. The Bills need to find the parts to put that together.

 

6.) RE: Draft picks. Well, what do you propose we do about those injuries? I truly believe that a good deal of the problem with the Jauron era fell in the realm of poor strength and conditioning. However, we only figured that out over 5 years. The sample size with Gailey's drafting is simply too small to make an adequate judgment. If you recall, however, Easley was going to be a component of the offense into this coming year. Wang was definitely going to be part of the OL rotation in some way. Danny Batten was also getting looks. And I think we'll see more of Troup as the season goes on. Same goes with Carrington.

 

I will give you that the Bills have had a poor history with drafting this past decade, at least in the first round. But it's a knee-jerk reaction to judge this latest draft class 4 games into the regime's first season. Gailey and Nix didn't draft those guys, so at least try to judge them on their merits.

 

 

 

If that rant made you feel better, than by all means, go ahead. But don't expect us all to buy what you're selling.

 

1- Brian Bulaga, round 1, John Jerry, Round 3. Neither being a hindsight pick

---- "they take the absolute, no doubt highest player available on the board"

------- Whose board are you refering to? The Bills Board? Clearly you must be, No one else had Spiller that high, and he is proving the Bills wrong every week. Mayock didnt have SPiller as the best avaialable. neither did McShay or Kiper - so it wasnt someone in the media. Whose board are you refering to? Because I dont belive Spiller was the best player available at all and I said that on draft day. In fact, I had Best and Mathews as better backs. Best went with the 30th pick and has produced better than Spiller to date....

[EasternOHBillsFan]

You sound like JS only you don't write as well and you want us to criticize it bit by bit and the argue w/ you about it. No thanks!

Personally I guess I am just getting sick of this aspect of the board. Hope you feel better about it and try to spend more time loving the people around you rather than thinking about all this negative stuff so obsessively.

 

BTW did some one say our LBs are circumcised?

 

Oh an one more thing history is never facts, it is written by the winners.

 

And I am getting SICK of all of the LOSING that is going on... don't you think that is just a BIT frustrating??!?!?

 

Ohh, I guess not... all we are supposed to do is sit back and medicate. NO THANKS!

[FightinIrishBills]

1- Brian Bulaga, round 1, John Jerry, Round 3. Neither being a hindsight pick

---- "they take the absolute, no doubt highest player available on the board"

------- Whose board are you refering to? The Bills Board? Clearly you must be, No one else had Spiller that high, and he is proving the Bills wrong every week. Mayock didnt have SPiller as the best avaialable. neither did McShay or Kiper - so it wasnt someone in the media. Whose board are you refering to? Because I dont belive Spiller was the best player available at all and I said that on draft day. In fact, I had Best and Mathews as better backs. Best went with the 30th pick and has produced better than Spiller to date....

 

Now you're practicing revisionist history here. Believe me, if it weren't so hard to find articles regarding individual player's stock from the 2010 draft, then I would be able to back up my points a little better. However, Bulaga's stock was definitely falling before the draft; hence, he dropped down to #25. Meanwhile, with regards to Carrington over Jerry, you have to assume that the Bills knew they would have to re-load on defense for their new scheme. It wasn't, however, a massive gaffe as you seem to be saying, considering Carrington was injured and inactive through the first 3 games of the season.

 

I won't even dignify the Spiller comments. We both know that you're in the wrong here.

[Thoner7]

Now you're practicing revisionist history here. Believe me, if it weren't so hard to find articles regarding individual player's stock from the 2010 draft, then I would be able to back up my points a little better. However, Bulaga's stock was definitely falling before the draft; hence, he dropped down to #25. Meanwhile, with regards to Carrington over Jerry, you have to assume that the Bills knew they would have to re-load on defense for their new scheme. It wasn't, however, a massive gaffe as you seem to be saying, considering Carrington was injured and inactive through the first 3 games of the season.

 

I won't even dignify the Spiller comments. We both know that you're in the wrong here.

 

-Oher was what, 23 or 24? Whats your point? Oher is/was worth 11, Bulaga is/was worth 9. Just because he fell is not evidence he is not good.

 

-Why do I have to assume that? I thought we were taking BPA? (see your own Spiller arguement) And Carrington is NOT INJURED. He has been a healthy scretch the first 3 games, then he finally was on the active roster when Stroud and McCargo were injured. Thats right, MCCARGO is higher on the depthchart than Carrignton. O yea, and he has yet to play a single snap in teh NFL - Thats really "reloading on defense" I never said it was a massive gaff, I said I would have taken Jerry if I were Nix.

 

- Choose to ignore me referencing facts. I dont really care. The fact is Spiller was no where near a lock as BPA when we drafted. I wont deny some people had him as that, but he was so far from a "lock" its silly. I think he is proving that by being 3rd string (well, now 2nd string by no positive play of his own) on the worst team in the NFL.

 

Again, Spiller was not a concensous top ten pick on this board til about 3 weeks after we drafted him and fans were trying to cope. I am so tired of hearing he was "the lock most obvious player ever to draft because we took him and go Nix" A gimmick RB whose name you only knew because of his college return abilities is not a top ten player.

 

Anyways, even if he was the concensous top player, he wasnt worth it. Look at what hes done so far. Look at how much he is helping the team. Its anothe rbad pick by a bad team with a bad FO.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Thoner7

[Thoner7]

-Oher was what, 23 or 24? Whats your point? Oher is/was worth 11, Bulaga is/was worth 9. Just because he fell is not evidence he is not good.

 

-Why do I have to assume that? I thought we were taking BPA? (see your own Spiller arguement) And Carrington is NOT INJURED. He has been a healthy scretch the first 3 games, then he finally was on the active roster when Stroud and McCargo were injured. Thats right, MCCARGO is higher on the depthchart than Carrignton. O yea, and he has yet to play a single snap in teh NFL - Thats really "reloading on defense" I never said it was a massive gaff, I said I would have taken Jerry if I were Nix.

 

- Choose to ignore me referencing facts. I dont really care. The fact is Spiller was no where near a lock as BPA when we drafted. I wont deny some people had him as that, but he was so far from a "lock" its silly. I think he is proving that by being 3rd string (well, now 2nd string by no positive play of his own) on the worst team in the NFL.

 

Again, Spiller was not a concensous top ten pick on this board til about 3 weeks after we drafted him and fans were trying to cope. I am so tired of hearing he was "the lock most obvious player ever to draft because we took him and go Nix" A gimmick RB whose name you only knew because of his college return abilities is not a top ten player.

 

Anyways, even if he was the concensous top player, he wasnt worth it. Look at what hes done so far. Look at how much he is helping the team. Its anothe rbad pick by a bad team with a bad FO.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8171c657/article/bryant-beats-out-bradford-as-drafts-top-offensive-prospect

 

here is the link I found. Mayocks big Board. Spiller at #6, Dez bryant at #3. Therefore, Mayock has Bryant as BPA - so how could Spiller be the lock concensous BPA? McShay I dont remember and really dont care. He is so wrong his opinion couldnt be worth crap. Kiper aint much better.

 

-I fell like these guys all moved him into the top 10 to accomadate the reports that the Bills were going to draft him - hence making themselfs look good by ranking him in the top 10 when they heard we were gonna take him.

[NaPolian8693]

To any outsider, it's blatantly obvious the Bills are one of the those junk franchises that always screws it up. The Bills are a bit of a punchline.

 

Maybe this draft class will go against the grain and pan out, but given it's the Bills odds are that it will turn out to be another draft failure.

[FightinIrishBills]

-Oher was what, 23 or 24? Whats your point? Oher is/was worth 11, Bulaga is/was worth 9. Just because he fell is not evidence he is not good.

 

-Why do I have to assume that? I thought we were taking BPA? (see your own Spiller arguement) And Carrington is NOT INJURED. He has been a healthy scretch the first 3 games, then he finally was on the active roster when Stroud and McCargo were injured. Thats right, MCCARGO is higher on the depthchart than Carrignton. O yea, and he has yet to play a single snap in teh NFL - Thats really "reloading on defense" I never said it was a massive gaff, I said I would have taken Jerry if I were Nix.

 

- Choose to ignore me referencing facts. I dont really care. The fact is Spiller was no where near a lock as BPA when we drafted. I wont deny some people had him as that, but he was so far from a "lock" its silly. I think he is proving that by being 3rd string (well, now 2nd string by no positive play of his own) on the worst team in the NFL.

 

Again, Spiller was not a concensous top ten pick on this board til about 3 weeks after we drafted him and fans were trying to cope. I am so tired of hearing he was "the lock most obvious player ever to draft because we took him and go Nix" A gimmick RB whose name you only knew because of his college return abilities is not a top ten player.

 

Anyways, even if he was the concensous top player, he wasnt worth it. Look at what hes done so far. Look at how much he is helping the team. Its anothe rbad pick by a bad team with a bad FO.

 

1.) Consider this: If the Bills thought that Spiller was significantly more valuable than any other player available at that point, as their draft stock of him was extremely high, then it would make sense for the team to take said player. If, however, we're talking about a scenario where the team does not significantly value that one player relative to the rest of the field, then it might make more sense to choose a player at a position that they consider of greater need. Hence, the strategy of taking the best player available doesn't apply in all situations.

 

2.) First off, you're right about Carrington being a healthy scratch. I was under the wrong impression and thought he was injured earlier in the year during training camp. That being said, I believe that, just as it was with the Trent Edwards situation, Gailey and Edwards are allowing the players on the roster to get a shot playing within their new system. If we're thinking of this year as a rebuilding season (which I've unfortunately resigned myself to at this point), then it makes sense that the Bills would like to see what they have to work with as they move forward. McCargo was a 1st round pick after all; I don't blame Edwards for seeing how he would look in his 3-4 scheme. I think that we'll continue to see a purging of ineffective players from this organization as we move into the future.

 

I also believe that we'll see Carrington get his shot at live action. However, it was important for them to see what they've got talent wise. One argument may be that they have a whole off-season and game-film to evaluate these players; however, as the Trent Edwards' example has shown, a player can be a pre-season hero and then wilt when the bullets start flying. And judging the game film from last year isn't very effective when they're running a different scheme with different players. Hence, it makes sense to let the experienced players on the roster get their shot early on to see what they have to offer. Having said that, I think it's time to inject some of the younger blood into the roster, although you may not see that until the last 8 games or so of the season.

 

And if Carrington just isn't good enough to play on the field? Then the team whiffed on that pick. However, I don't blame them for trying to find the right players to fit the new system they wanted to install.

 

3.) It's a really tricky business talking about draft value. Every team obviously has their own big board, every analyst has their big board, every fan has their idea of what certain players value should be (believe me, I was one of Brady Quinn's biggest partisans. And while I don't think he really got a fair shake with things, he's proven that he probably doesn't have the skill to be a viable NFL starter). So allow me to add the caveat that Spiller was the absolute best player available on the Bills' draft board, and most likely the draft boards of other NFL teams. Either way, I don't believe that the Bills valued any of the OL players available on the board enough to justify reaching with their pick over a talent in Spiller that they so highly regarded.

 

I was mistaken in thinking that it was fairly obvious that Spiller was viewed as a rare talent. Seems as though it was debatable at the time, although my memory alone tells me that praise for Spiller seemed nearly universal before the draft, with certain analysts saying that he could be the most talented player in the draft. But credit to you for finding an article backing up your point.

 

However, you mention that in hindsight, Oher was a top 10 pick and so was Bulaga, even though they weren't drafted in those spots. Unfortunately I think this is a case of hindsight being 20/20, despite your claims to the contrary. Teams drafting obviously work with the information that they have on hand; in that very same draft, wouldn't everyone have said that Andre Smith of the Bengals was not a consensus top 5 pick? The truth is, there are a lot of factors that go into drafting a player, and it takes a keen eye to discern which players will thrive on your team and which ones won't. Figure out which factors are the most important is the difficult part.

 

However, Bulaga was an iffy proposition for a lot of teams. Nobody was really sure if his footwork and his upper body strength was good enough to justify drafting him higher than where he was taken, IIRC.

 

4.) You've made some good points, but here's where I really think you're veering off into conjecture. We're dealing with an extremely small sample size of data here in evaluating Spiller (as well as Bulaga and any of the other players out of this draft class). If, by season's end, Spiller continues to have the limited role on offense that he's shown thus far, then yes, you would be justified in saying that he was a bad pick. However, in keeping with the theme of "tryouts", I believe that Lynch and Jackson were both given their auditions both to work in Gailey's offense in real play and as showcases for other teams. While Marshawn looked strong running the ball, I believe Jackson has better awareness for finding gaps and blocking.

 

Bottom line? There's no way right now that Spiller can be said to be a bad pick.

[Thoner7]

1.) Consider this: If the Bills thought that Spiller was significantly more valuable than any other player available at that point, as their draft stock of him was extremely high, then it would make sense for the team to take said player. If, however, we're talking about a scenario where the team does not significantly value that one player relative to the rest of the field, then it might make more sense to choose a player at a position that they consider of greater need. Hence, the strategy of taking the best player available doesn't apply in all situations.

 

2.) First off, you're right about Carrington being a healthy scratch. I was under the wrong impression and thought he was injured earlier in the year during training camp. That being said, I believe that, just as it was with the Trent Edwards situation, Gailey and Edwards are allowing the players on the roster to get a shot playing within their new system. If we're thinking of this year as a rebuilding season (which I've unfortunately resigned myself to at this point), then it makes sense that the Bills would like to see what they have to work with as they move forward. McCargo was a 1st round pick after all; I don't blame Edwards for seeing how he would look in his 3-4 scheme. I think that we'll continue to see a purging of ineffective players from this organization as we move into the future.

 

I also believe that we'll see Carrington get his shot at live action. However, it was important for them to see what they've got talent wise. One argument may be that they have a whole off-season and game-film to evaluate these players; however, as the Trent Edwards' example has shown, a player can be a pre-season hero and then wilt when the bullets start flying. And judging the game film from last year isn't very effective when they're running a different scheme with different players. Hence, it makes sense to let the experienced players on the roster get their shot early on to see what they have to offer. Having said that, I think it's time to inject some of the younger blood into the roster, although you may not see that until the last 8 games or so of the season.

 

And if Carrington just isn't good enough to play on the field? Then the team whiffed on that pick. However, I don't blame them for trying to find the right players to fit the new system they wanted to install.

 

3.) It's a really tricky business talking about draft value. Every team obviously has their own big board, every analyst has their big board, every fan has their idea of what certain players value should be (believe me, I was one of Brady Quinn's biggest partisans. And while I don't think he really got a fair shake with things, he's proven that he probably doesn't have the skill to be a viable NFL starter). So allow me to add the caveat that Spiller was the absolute best player available on the Bills' draft board, and most likely the draft boards of other NFL teams. Either way, I don't believe that the Bills valued any of the OL players available on the board enough to justify reaching with their pick over a talent in Spiller that they so highly regarded.

 

I was mistaken in thinking that it was fairly obvious that Spiller was viewed as a rare talent. Seems as though it was debatable at the time, although my memory alone tells me that praise for Spiller seemed nearly universal before the draft, with certain analysts saying that he could be the most talented player in the draft. But credit to you for finding an article backing up your point.

 

However, you mention that in hindsight, Oher was a top 10 pick and so was Bulaga, even though they weren't drafted in those spots. Unfortunately I think this is a case of hindsight being 20/20, despite your claims to the contrary. Teams drafting obviously work with the information that they have on hand; in that very same draft, wouldn't everyone have said that Andre Smith of the Bengals was not a consensus top 5 pick? The truth is, there are a lot of factors that go into drafting a player, and it takes a keen eye to discern which players will thrive on your team and which ones won't. Figure out which factors are the most important is the difficult part.

 

However, Bulaga was an iffy proposition for a lot of teams. Nobody was really sure if his footwork and his upper body strength was good enough to justify drafting him higher than where he was taken, IIRC.

 

4.) You've made some good points, but here's where I really think you're veering off into conjecture. We're dealing with an extremely small sample size of data here in evaluating Spiller (as well as Bulaga and any of the other players out of this draft class). If, by season's end, Spiller continues to have the limited role on offense that he's shown thus far, then yes, you would be justified in saying that he was a bad pick. However, in keeping with the theme of "tryouts", I believe that Lynch and Jackson were both given their auditions both to work in Gailey's offense in real play and as showcases for other teams. While Marshawn looked strong running the ball, I believe Jackson has better awareness for finding gaps and blocking.

 

Bottom line? There's no way right now that Spiller can be said to be a bad pick.

 

Very logical post.

 

But I want to address the last line. Yes, you could argue that Spiller was worth the pick, when that is all you considier. "Is Spiller worth a top 10 pick" Most people would agree (I for one dont but that is another topic).

 

 

When you see that you have 2 great RBs, and acknoledge how meaningless teh RB position is relative to other positions, it doesnt make sense to add another in the top ten. My beef with the selection is that look at where we were and were we are now in terms of rebuilding.

 

Me, I am looking at not 1 draft pick, but the entire roster with the overall goal of building a championship team. IMO this pick cannot be viewed as one random transaction with no ramifications elsewhere. This one a move that is inherently tied to other moves.

 

The day before the draft the Bills had Lynch, J.Bell/C.Simpson, and a top 10 pick. After the Spiller Pick and Lynch trade the Bills have Spiller, and a 4th round pick. How is that rebuilding? Thats a huge huge huge huge huge huge huge step backwards. After 1 draft and offseason the Bills are now a worse team than before we started "rebuilding"

 

Thats my problem with the Spiller pick, not Spiller himself, but the fact that his selection and the events that were bound to transpire have made the Bills a worse team and even farther from a playoff berth.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Thoner7