Beerball Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 leonidas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infernus Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) leonidas I agree with giving CJ and Nelson a few more snaps.. but Maybin honestly looks more lost than Trent out there. I'm a Penn State fan and root for him to do well, but it's sickening to watch. I'm beginning to believe more and more that he'll be on waivers in a year or so. Guessing they don't feel Carrington is ready enough either. Edited September 24, 2010 by infernus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 IF you thought you had some franchise players or long term starters i would agree. No team has become successful by playing all their newbies just to see what they have. Not a winning philosophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 The games aren't painful enough to watch? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 24, 2010 Author Share Posted September 24, 2010 IF you thought you had some franchise players or long term starters i would agree. No team has become successful by playing all their newbies just to see what they have. Not a winning philosophy So, Spiller was a wasted pick? Not a long term starter? Getting Nelson on the field won't reap rewards in the future (and possibly this year)? Do we wait until the offseason to see how they do in OTAs? Do you expect this season to be successful? The games aren't painful enough to watch? PTR What's more painful, watching Lynch dance in the backfield or Spiller dance in the backfield and then breaking one? What's worse, watching Johnson stop his routes or possibly seeing that Nelson has a future in the league? You don't know until you play them. Let's see what we got people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) I agree in principle, but I think there has to be a preparation process involved. Throwing them to the wolves when you know they're not ready does nothing but destroy their confidence. Hopefully the coaches are grooming the young to get them into the game in the next couple of weeks as they evaluate the other players at those positions. When they are on par, or appear to be a better option, then they should be put into the starting/active lineup. There are 14 more games left to do it, and just because we suck doesn't mean our rookies will develop quicker. Personally, I'm hoping this staff is better at getting players to their potential than previous staffs, and part of that is not crushing them early on IMO. So many people are livid about Modrak's job of talent evaluation without considering that truly talented players can be really ineffective with poor coaching and no development, thereby making his "choices" look worse when the coaching (or lack of) destroys these players. Edited September 24, 2010 by transient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 So, Spiller was a wasted pick? Not a long term starter? Getting Nelson on the field won't reap rewards in the future (and possibly this year)? Do we wait until the offseason to see how they do in OTAs? Do you expect this season to be successful? What's more painful, watching Lynch dance in the backfield or Spiller dance in the backfield and then breaking one? What's worse, watching Johnson stop his routes or possibly seeing that Nelson has a future in the league? You don't know until you play them. Let's see what we got people. No not a wasted pick at all. But you need to put him (and them) in situations to be successful. Right now they arent good enough to be playing, which is more than being worried about mistakes. You never play guys just for the sake of playing them. Spiller might be the exception because the team does consider him to be a special talent. The other guys not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 The fallacy of this approach is the belief that all young players will benefit from playing time right now and/or if the young players don't show something on the field this year we can conclude they won't be good players. Certainly playing time will help some young players, but others still need to observe, work in practice, etc. I think the coaches should do: 1. what's best for the team and 2. what's best for an individual player. Pleasing Leo Buscaglia's dumber brother, or some disgruntled fan has to be WAY down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 IF you thought you had some franchise players or long term starters i would agree. No team has become successful by playing all their newbies just to see what they have. Not a winning philosophy Good point. I think the staff has seen what these guys can do. Maybin gets plenty of playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 The fallacy of this approach is the belief that all young players will benefit from playing time right now and/or if the young players don't show something on the field this year we can conclude they won't be good players. Certainly playing time will help some young players, but others still need to observe, work in practice, etc. I think the coaches should do: 1. what's best for the team and 2. what's best for an individual player. Pleasing Leo Buscaglia's dumber brother, or some disgruntled fan has to be WAY down the list. Heresy! haha. Coaches film practice, they knows whats going on. Certain players youll take your lumps with because they are talented enough. Some need time to develop first. The Buscaglia article is more along the lines of -- hey sign this guy ive heard of him before .. lets see what he can do!! Fact is, that these guys arent ready, and playing them now may set them back in development. Spiller was not appropriately assessed and thus his workload has been adjusted and i assume it will be tailored to his strengths. as for maybin...yes well hes maybin ill say no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 24, 2010 Author Share Posted September 24, 2010 so, the consensus is that the rookies are not ready to contribute on a very very suspect team. ay yi yi Really? There are no benefits to putting them on the field and giving them a chance to play? Really? We're doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 so, the consensus is that the rookies are not ready to contribute on a very very suspect team. ay yi yi Really? There are no benefits to putting them on the field and giving them a chance to play? Really? We're doomed. It's really hard to argue with such logic and insight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 so, the consensus is that the rookies are not ready to contribute on a very very suspect team. ay yi yi Really? There are no benefits to putting them on the field and giving them a chance to play? Really? We're doomed. I think evaluating veteran players in a new system, especially if they're playing a new position, takes some time too. If they're REALLY bad and not getting better, replacing them becomes a priority not only now but in the draft, however if they're serviceable now and showing improvement, they can be less of a priority to replace. Hopefully this staff can turn the page on bad players, which first means they've identified them and second means they've given up on them. This organization takes TOO long to do that, historically, because they're always back and forth on players and always failing at some sort of reclamation project. If two games was all it took to decide they're done with TE, great, check a box off on the list of things to do this season and don't look back. So what if it takes a few more games for some other players, and therefore it takes longer for some of the rookies to see the field, as long as it's done with an eye toward the (near, hopefully) future instead of the now, which will be painful regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) I think evaluating veteran players in a new system, especially if they're playing a new position, takes some time too. If they're REALLY bad and not getting better, replacing them becomes a priority not only now but in the draft, however if they're serviceable now and showing improvement, they can be less of a priority to replace. Hopefully this staff can turn the page on bad players, which first means they've identified them and second means they've given up on them. This organization takes TOO long to do that, historically, because they're always back and forth on players and always failing at some sort of reclamation project. If two games was all it took to decide they're done with TE, great, check a box off on the list of things to do this season and don't look back. So what if it takes a few more games for some other players, and therefore it takes longer for some of the rookies to see the field, as long as it's done with an eye toward the (near, hopefully) future instead of the now, which will be painful regardless. I don't need to watch Kelsay lug ten yards behind a tight end running after the catch anymore to evaluate him. Play Anotonio Coleman and Maybin and let's live with the growing pains. Bench Green and play Wang or Meredith - guys with upside. Kyle and Stroud should sit more as the year goes on and Carrington and Troup should take over. We're going to suck this year. Let's use the time to give precious playing time to the kids. We'll be much better for it next year. Edited September 24, 2010 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 I totally agree, if you are going to stink, then stink young and cheap. are we developing Green and Kelsay for future- I didn't expect the Bills to be good at all this year but I did hope that they could put together some foundational pieces together this year but I don't see that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 i guess we will see more and more of the youngsters as the season goes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) I totally agree, if you are going to stink, then stink young and cheap. are we developing Green and Kelsay for future- I didn't expect the Bills to be good at all this year but I did hope that they could put together some foundational pieces together this year but I don't see that either. You're right, but I think those foundational pieces could well be here - but not yet playing. 14 games is a great learning ground for these young guys and we should suck it up and play them. Edited September 24, 2010 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 You're right, but I think those foundational pieces could well be here - but not yet playing. 14 games is a great learning ground for these young guys and we should suck it up and play them. Ultimately, I think they will, but it will still take a few games to get to that point. My point before was that right now everything is new to everyone, and in the next few seasons there is going to be a ton of turnover in personnel. Taking the time to evaluate who's here now lets them do it right. I couldn't agree more about Kelsay's play, but this is only the second game he's been asked to assume that role. If they're going to turn the page on him NOW, then they need to be sure they're done with him, because there are other positions that need to be overhauled, too. I'm just saying they need to determine the priority, and to do that they need to see everyone play. They're more likely to give the young guys longer to develop (even beyond this season), so they need to be sure the vets no longer fit into their plans (beyond this season) first, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 I see your point but Kelsay will never cover a tight end and Green is 33 and awful. Let's move on these guys sooner than later . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Thats why I wish we kept James Hardy and gave him a fair chance. Chad Jackson too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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