Haynesworth Demands Trade

[Captain Caveman]

I'll step up. I thought they were and still do. At least they are trying, and appear to have accomplished what they set out to in the offseason- they signed a big name championship winning coach, traded for a pro bowl qb and drafted a LT in the first round to anchor their weak line- all things I wish the Bills had done. I wonder how many people on this board would like the Bills to have picked up Shanahan as HC, McNabb at QB and Williams at OT?

 

Have they made some mistakes? Yes, and Haynesworth looks like he may be at the top of the list, but at least they are trying... and money is no object. Eventually, they will get it right and leave teams that try to do things on the cheap in the dust.

 

Money is no object, and their fans pay a lot more to watch a losing team.

 

Redskins have a waitlist for season tickets, with an average price of: 79.13

 

Bills average ticket price: 51.24

 

$28 * 75,000 * 9 home games

 

Works out to about an extra 18 million per year. With no results to show.

[Doc]

What is your point? I never said he was a great owner. I never said he spent wisely on coaches and players. In fact, I have stated the opposite. With respect to his stadium he is paying for it, not the taxpayers . Why would you complain about that?

 

As I stated in a prior posting you make up responses attributed to me and then you make your misguided points off of the false attribution. Neeraj being Neeraj.

Sorry about that John. You made several posts talking about how the Redskins wasted their money on Haynesworth. Which got me to thinking about how fans are always clamoring for the Bills to sign X high-priced player, or coach and are pissed when they don't. Snyder does, but his teams do no better than Ralph's do. I didn't say that you said Snyder was a great owner, but you'd think he'd be one.

[JohnC]

Sorry about that John. You made several posts talking about how the Redskins wasted their money on Haynesworth. Which got me to thinking about how fans are always clamoring for the Bills to sign X high-priced player, or coach and are pissed when they don't.

 

The Bills's owner can spend as much or as little as he wants. That is his prerogative. There is a simple way to judge the caliber of ownership: the performance of his team. The Bills have lost more than they won in four out of five decades they have been in existence. The one decade in which they had exceptional success the owner let go the person most responsible for that success (Polian).

 

There isn't much clamor for the Bills to make high priced and high profile signings. What is being clamored for is to have this organization make smart and competent decisions. Hiring an ill-equipped Levy to preside over the football operation was moronic. Hiring a marketing guru (Brandon) to replace Levy was outright peculiar. Those were ownership decisions.

 

Snyder does, but his teams do no better than Ralph's do. I didn't say that you said Snyder was a great owner, but you'd think he'd be one.

 

I have never said that I thought Snyder would be a great owner. I don't know how you can come to that conclusion? What I will say about Snyder is that the Haynesworth heist is a situaton he will learn from. Although he got robbed or hustled by AH I'm sure he will now rely on his newly installed front office and HC to make the football decisions instead of allowing himself to act on his foolish whims and impulses.

[Malazan]

I have never said that I thought Snyder would be a great owner. I don't know how you can come to that conclusion? What I will say about Snyder is that the Haynesworth heist is a situaton he will learn from. Although he got robbed or hustled by AH I'm sure he will now rely on his newly installed front office and HC to make the football decisions instead of allowing himself to act on his foolish whims and impulses.

 

Yes, his previous record shows that he hires 'football' guys and then never interferes. Synder may stay out of it for a year like Jerry Jones did with Parcells, but it will be the same situation. He will want to start making decisions again.

[Doc]

There is no magic formula for success.

[Red]

PHEW!

 

For a minute there, I thought that this was going to be a post saying 'GET R DONE' or some other kind of stupidity.

 

I tell 'ya, I'm really more proud of London Fletcher after hearing him bash Fat Al. I respect Fletcher that much more.

 

Fat Al is self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Now we know that the year in Tennessee where he lit offensive lines up was, in fact, a 'show me the money' year and nothing more. What a disgrace.

 

To have that ability, and to have gotten the money you wanted, and to just pee it all away...

 

...how can one be soooo stupid?

[JohnC]

There is no magic formula for success.

 

There certainly is a standard formula for failure: Hire incompetents and fools. The outcome is always predictable.

[Doc]

There certainly is a standard formula for failure: Hire incompetents and fools. The outcome is always predictable.

Would you say TD was incompetent, or a fool, when Ralph hired him? Would you say any of the people Snyder has hired are incompetent or fools? Is Ralph intentionally hiring incompetents and fools?

[finknottle]

What were the Skins thinking giving AH that kind of money without getting an explicit assurance that he would play anywhere they wanted him?

 

What I'm hearing here on talk radio (and it isn't confirmed or universally accepted) is that the Redskins reached a verbal understanding with him that by accepting that bonus he would play anywhere he was asked to.

 

That, so some commentators say, is why the Redskins are confident enough to talk about recouping some of the bonus. With his later failure to attend the recent mandatory camp, they now feel that they are on solid legal grounds.

[JohnC]

Would you say TD was incompetent, or a fool, when Ralph hired him? Would you say any of the people Snyder has hired are incompetent or fools?

 

Why you bring up Snyder with respect to our clueless owner is beyond me? What does Snyder have to do with Buffalo's bumbling owner? Your making the point that other owners have done poor jobs to justify Ralph's record is very odd reasoning. The owner is judged on his own record. It is as simple as that. Pointing to other miscalculating owners is a lame attempt at deflecting responsibility to where it belongs.

 

Is Ralph intentionally hiring incompetents and fools?

 

Of course not. He has hired incompetents and fools because he is simply inept. His judgments in firing Polian, driving out Butler/A.J. Smith, hiring Levy and then a marketing guru to takeover the football operation, giving Jauron an extension etc. were bad decisions made by him. I'm sure even you will agree (???) that the less involved the befuddled owner is with the organization the better chance this franchise can turn things around for the better.

[JOHNNYFAIRPLAY]

The prime example of whats wrong with professional sports, and why there may be no NFL next year.

 

Guy just made 34 million dollars in 13 months and now he want to be traded. Shut up and do what you are asked and stop being a little sally about it.

 

I think AH has serious mental issues...If I got 20Mil, I'd sow footballs if thats what they asked me to do.

 

And he seems very very uninformed...wish i was his agent..I'd call him a fat dummy everyday..

 

ring ring...AH "hello?"

ME "hey you fat stupid tard, you want to see how fast you can blow 20 Mil?"

EVERYDAY

[Doc]

Why you bring up Snyder with respect to our clueless owner is beyond me? What does Snyder have to with Buffalo's bumbling owner? Your making the point that other owners have done poor jobs to justify Ralph's record is very odd reasoning. The owner is judged on his own record. It is as simple as that. Pointing to other miscalculating owners is a lame attempt at deflecting responsibility to where it belongs.

 

Of course not. He has hired incompetents and fools because he is simply inept. His judgments in firing Polian, driving out Butler/A.J. Smith, hiring Levy and then a marketing guru to takeover the football operation, giving Jauron an extension etc. were bad decisions made by him. I'm sure even you will agree (???) that the less involved the befuddled owner is with the organization the better chance this franchise can turn things around for the better.

The point was comparing Ralph, a "cheap" owner who hires "incompetents and fools" to an owner who spends money on the best coaches and players out there, and having similar success. We can talk about other owners. Jones spends money as well, and has had a little more success this past decade. Benson and Bidwell were considered terrible owners, but fortunes changed and they now have good teams. The point being it's not as simple as saying "well, he's a bad owner." Much less that the decisions are intentional. That's just childish.

[silvermike]

If Haynesworth wanted a guarantee he'd only pay in a 4-3, then he should have negotiated for it. It's not a totally bizarre world where teams change defensive arrangement. He could have demanded that the contract void if they switched to a 3-4 front, or he could have signed with a team that gave him that guarantee. It's not like he was coerced into signing with a gun at his head.

 

And if all 32 teams wouldn't meet his demands, he could always have retired.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

The Bills's owner can spend as much or as little as he wants. That is his prerogative. There is a simple way to judge the caliber of ownership: the performance of his team. The Bills have lost more than they won in four out of five decades they have been in existence. The one decade in which they had exceptional success the owner let go the person most responsible for that success (Polian).

 

There isn't much clamor for the Bills to make high priced and high profile signings. What is being clamored for is to have this organization make smart and competent decisions. Hiring an ill-equipped Levy to preside over the football operation was moronic. Hiring a marketing guru (Brandon) to replace Levy was outright peculiar. Those were ownership decisions.

 

I have never said that I thought Snyder would be a great owner. I don't know how you can come to that conclusion? What I will say about Snyder is that the Haynesworth heist is a situaton he will learn from. Although he got robbed or hustled by AH I'm sure he will now rely on his newly installed front office and HC to make the football decisions instead of allowing himself to act on his foolish whims and impulses.

 

I live in VA and hate the Redskins but your analysis is right on!! One of the smartest thing I have read on this board in many years. One could argue that losing (FIRING) Bill Polian was one of the worst sports decisions in history. Worse than the RedSox getting rid of Babe Ruth. Why? How long was Babe Ruth around for? How many years/decades has Bill Polian been winning? Which job is more difficult?? To be a superstar and perform as a player OR to build championships and lead organizations to Super Bowls?? Look at Bill's track records....After taking us to 4 Super Bowls he went on to Carolina and the Colts. Took Carolina to NFC Champs in 2nd year as expansion team, Then built the Colts and of course us. Gettting rid of Polian would be worse than getting rid of Peyton Manning but .....

 

We have one wining season in 10 years. Pathetic! One could also argue we might be better off as an expansion team with Bill Polian at the helm than where we are now. Ralph Wilson has a history of making PATHETIC decisions. IF we really have 4 losing decades out of 5, with the one being Polian at the helm than I am utterly disgusted. Don't believe the hype!!!!!!!! With that said I am optimistic we are on a good track now but who knows what the future holds with the ages of Nix and Wilson. Good times! Go Bills!

 

I will ALWAYS be a Bills fan but I think we need to all keep our eyes open to reality and the facts.

[Doc]

I live in VA and hate the Redskins but your analysis is right on!! One of the smartest thing I have read on this board in many years. One could argue that losing (FIRING) Bill Polian was one of the worst sports decisions in history. Worse than the RedSox getting rid of Babe Ruth. Why? How long was Babe Ruth around for? How many years/decades has Bill Polian been winning? Which job is more difficult?? To be a superstar and perform as a player OR to build championships and lead organizations to Super Bowls?? Look at Bill's track records....After taking us to 4 Super Bowls he went on to Carolina and the Colts. Took Carolina to NFC Champs in 2nd year as expansion team, Then built the Colts and of course us. Gettting rid of Polian would be worse than getting rid of Peyton Manning but .....

 

We have one wining season in 10 years. Pathetic! One could also argue we might be better off as an expansion team with Bill Polian at the helm than where we are now. Ralph Wilson has a history of making PATHETIC decisions. IF we really have 4 losing decades out of 5, with the one being Polian at the helm than I am utterly disgusted. Don't believe the hype!!!!!!!! With that said I am optimistic we are on a good track now but who knows what the future holds with the ages of Nix and Wilson. Good times! Go Bills!

 

I will ALWAYS be a Bills fan but I think we need to all keep our eyes open to reality and the facts.

Polian forced Ralph's hand. You don't become increasingly belligerent and call the owner's daughter the "C" word at a party and get away with it. And those 4 SB losing teams didn't help matters any. How long did you think Polian would have been around anyway? He left the Panthers after just a couple seasons.

[JohnC]

With that said I am optimistic we are on a good track now but who knows what the future holds with the ages of Nix and Wilson. Good times! Go Bills!

 

I will ALWAYS be a Bills fan but I think we need to all keep our eyes open to reality and the facts.

 

I am somewhat optimistic with Nix running the football operation. At first I was very skeptical with his hire. However, he has demonstrated to me that he has an understanding on how to rebuild a hollow franchise. The free agent pickups, (DT/DE Edwards, LB Davis) were reasonably priced and were solid additions. They weren't showpiece and marketing pickups such as the T.O. acquisition last year.

 

I thought Nix did well with his hiring of Whaley from the Steelers. The hiring of Gailey was not the inspired choice a lot of people were calling for but it was a sound choice. What the Bills organization needs more than anything else is not a Donahoe type style of trying to outsmart everyone else, so much as needing fundamentally sound football people to make quality decisions.

 

Although many analyst were tepid in their assement of our draft I thought it was sound. In general, we got bigger and tougher. There were no DBs taken (Jauron's neurosis). It is going to take longer than another year to become a serious team again. That doesn't mean that the Bills can't be entertaining and competitive this year. It is a process that will take patience.

[JohnC]

Polian forced Ralph's hand. You don't become increasingly belligerent and call the owner's daughter the "C" word at a party and get away with it. And those 4 SB losing teams didn't help matters any. How long did you think Polian would have been around anyway? He left the Panthers after just a couple seasons.

 

There is no doubt that Polian was a profane person. But that wasn't the primary reason he got fired. The most substative reason why he got fired was that Polian was constantly clashing with Litton, Wilson's finance person in the organization. The situation was untenable. One of them had to go. The owner went with his Detroit finance person instead of the football person.

 

Wilson's daughter worked in the scouting department. Do you think Polian only cursed at her? Wild Bill was tough on a lot of people. John Butler, at the time, was one of his top scouts. He also was very irritated with the abusive style of Polian. That was his style. The bottom line is that goofball owner fired one of the best GMs in the history of the game because he preferred keeping his finance person who was good at keeping his costs down.

 

And those 4 SB losing teams didn't help matters any.

 

Getting into four consecutive SBs while he was the GM surely is better than not even getting into the playoffs for a decade straight and still counting. Don't you think?

[Doc]

There is no doubt that Polian was a profane person. But that wasn't the primary reason he got fired. The most substative reason why he got fired was that Polian was constantly clashing with Litton, Wilson's finance person in the organization. The situation was untenable. One of them had to go. The owner went with his Detroit finance person instead of the football person.

 

Wilson's daughter worked in the scouting department. Do you think Polian only cursed at her? Wild Bill was tough on a lot of people. John Butler, at the time, was one of his top scouts. He also was very irritated with the abusive style of Polian. That was his style. The bottom line is that goofball owner fired one of the best GMs in the history of the game because he preferred keeping his finance person who was good at keeping his costs down.

There was no salary cap at the time and Ralph was being sorely outspent by the larger, higher revenue teams. But Polian had a hand in things, giving bad deals to average guys like Kelso and Wright (off the top of my head). If the salary cap had existed years before, things might have turned out different. Or not. Hence the reason I mentioned Carolina and Polian leaving a sinking ship. Which he'll do with the Colts when it's time.

 

Getting into four consecutive SBs while he was the GM surely is better than not even getting into the playoffs for a decade straight and still counting. Don't you think?

I doubt Ralph had a crystal ball back then. If he did, he might have had the Bills totally tank the 1997 season, so they could draft Manning in 1998.

[JohnC]

The point being it's not as simple as saying "well, he's a bad owner." Much less that the decisions are intentional. That's just childish.

 

There you go again. Making a claim on something I never said. Go back and read some of my prior postings. The point I made is of course the clueless owner is not going to deliberately make bad decisions for the organization. He indisputably has made a number of very bad decisions simply because he is inept. Look at the record.

[Doc]

There you go again. Making a claim on something I never said. Go back and read some of my prior postings. The point I made is of course the clueless owner is not going to deleberately make bad decisions for the organization. He indisputably has made a number of very bad decisions simply because he is inept. Look at the record.

The hiring of TD was widely hailed, because of TD's work with the Steelers. Hiring Marv and then Brandon I'll grant you were bad moves. But you seem to like Nix and Gailey. If they fail, is it because of Ralph?

[John from Riverside]

All I know is that the redskins every year go out and get the prize free agents.....and they dont win any more then we do.......for christ sake their pick was BETTER then ours this year........

[JohnC]

There was no salary cap at the time and Ralph was being sorely outspent by the larger, higher revenue teams. But Polian had a hand in things, giving bad deals to average guys like Kelso and Wright (off the top of my head). If the salary cap had existed years before, things might have turned out different. Or not. Hence the reason I mentioned Carolina and Polian leaving a sinking ship. Which he'll do with the Colts when it's time.

 

 

I doubt Ralph had a crystal ball back then. If he did, he might have had the Bills totally tank the 1997 season, so they could draft Manning in 1998.

 

If there was a championship for twisting and distorting facts and history you would be triumphantly lifting the trophy. Bill Polian is a HOF GM who had a historical run for the Bills. Assembling teams which got to the SB in four consecutive years will probably never again be matched. (Your frequently changing explanation for Ralph's disasterous decision to fire Polian is now that he gave out some bad contracts. Laughable, purely laughable. The explanation for his dismissal is very simple. The owner sided with Litton, his finance man, when it came to one staying and the other leaving.

 

Your explanation about the reason why Polian left his position with Carolina is another one of your creative distortions. Polian took an expansion team and got it into the championship game in its second year. Compare that to the Bills who probably won't get into the playoffs for nearly a generation. The reason why Polian left Carolina is very simple. The owner didn't want an organization structure where a strongman GM thoroughly dominated the football operation. It was simply a philosophical difference. The owner has the right to run the organization the way he wants to. There was no rancor in BP's departure. The same scenario played out in New England where Bill Parcells wanted to have a larger say in running the football operation than the owner, Robert Kraft, wanted to give him. It was a philosophical difference in which the owner has the final say on how to structure his organization. Just like BP moving on Parcells moved on.

 

I doubt Ralph had a crystal ball back then.

 

Ralph for a long time has been very predictable. When you make decisions such as hiring an ill-equipped Levy to take over your football operations and dismiss one of the best GMs in the history of the NFL the outcomes are very predictable. With Ralph you don't need a crystal ball. Just keep your eyes open and see what is in plain sight.

[JohnC]

The hiring of TD was widely hailed, because of TD's work with the Steelers. Hiring Marv and then Brandon I'll grant you were bad moves. But you seem to like Nix and Gailey. If they fail, is it because of Ralph?

 

 

I do like Nix and Gailey. They seem to have a direction and purposeful execution of their rebuilding plans. What I am impressed with is their not making epedient and costly moves to address some immediate needs. My primary concern for this non-playoff team is still the OL, especially at LT.

 

If they fail, is it because of Ralph?

 

No one can answer that question because we don't now know the level of involvementthis goofy owner is going to be with the operation and how much support he is going to give his front office. Basically, what I am saying is the less involved this baron owner is involved the better chance this team has to succeed.

[Doc]

If there was a championship for twisting and distorting facts and history you would be triumphantly lifting the trophy. Bill Polian is a HOF GM who had a historical run for the Bills. Assembling teams which got to the SB in four consecutive years will probably never again be matched. (Your frequently changing explanation for Ralph's disasterous decision to fire Polian is now that he gave out some bad contracts. Laughable, purely laughable. The explanation for his dismissal is very simple. The owner sided with Litton, his finance man, when it came to one staying and the other leaving.

 

Your explanation about the reason why Polian left his position with Carolina is another one of your creative distortions. Polian took an expansion team and got it into the championship game in its second year. Compare that to the Bills who probably won't get into the playoffs for nearly a generation. The reason why Polian left Carolina is very simple. The owner didn't want an organization structure where a strongman GM thoroughly dominated the football operation. It was simply a philosophical difference. The owner has the right to run the organization the way he wants to. There was no rancor in BP's departure. The same scenario played out in New England where Bill Parcells wanted to have a larger say in running the football operation than the owner, Robert Kraft, wanted to give him. It was a philosophical difference in which the owner has the final say on how to structure his organization. Just like BP moving on Parcells moved on.

 

Ralph for a long time has been very predictable. When you make decisions such as hiring an ill-equipped Levy to take over your football operations and dismiss one of the best GMs in the history of the NFL the outcomes are very predictable. With Ralph you don't need a crystal ball. Just keep your eyes open and see what is in plain sight.

Again John, Polian was going to get fired eventually because his teams lost 4 SB's AND because he was an !@#$, to go along with overpaying mediocre talent (meaning his clashes with LittMAN were at least partly of his own doing, believe it or don't). Why do you think he left the Panthers after just 3 years (the team went 7-9 his last year, BTW)? Because he realized Kerry Collins, who he drafted 5th overall in 1995, wasn't going to get it done? Because he rubbed Panthers owner Jerry Richardson the wrong way? Is Richardson "a bad owner" because he got rid of Polian? Again, if only the Bills had tanked in 1997 and gotten the chance to draft Manning, things would have been vastly different.

 

As we saw this past off-season, top coaches don't want to coach in Buffalo, and it has nothing to do with the owner. Ralph's bad decisions have involved hiring Marv and then Brandon, but that was 4 years. The TD hire seemed to be a great move at the time, but didn't pan-out. To laughably say "it was a bad move by a bad owner because it didn't work out" is silly.

 

My (perpetual) advice to you, John, is to get over Ralph firing Polian. As well as your irrational hatred of Ralph. Without him, the Bills would have been gone decades ago. If you want to blame anything, blame Buffalo for being Buffalo.

[JohnC]

If you want to blame anything, blame Buffalo for being Buffalo.

 

Responding to such absurdity is not worth responding to. If the location of Buffalo is such a handicap then how did Polian do such a masterful job when he worked in the western NY?

[Doc]

Responding to such absurdity is not worth responding to. If the location of Buffalo is such a handicap then how did Polian do such a masterful job when he worked in the western NY?

Polian joined the Bills in August 1984 and was promoted to GM in December of 1985. The Bills drafted Kelly (who initially said he'd never play for Buffalo) in 1983, before Polian was with the club. The team had the first pick in the draft and each round in 1985, and got Bruce, Reich, and Reed, before Polian was GM. They were the 2nd worst team in 1985. Now Polian did a good job of drafting overall, but those were 4 huge pieces for the Bills, before he'd even become GM, and 3 of those guys are HOF'ers/HOF-worthy, while Reich probably could have had a really good career with another club. And it would have been "masterful" had the Bills managed to win a SB.

 

But what Polian was able to do with the late 80's/early 90's Bills, has no bearing on Buffalo being an undesirable place for coaches and players to want to play, because of the climate, economy, market size, etc. And back then, there was no CBA and no UFA so players didn't have much of a choice once drafted by a club. Green Bay was also a place no one wanted to play, for the same reasons.

 

The funny thing about Polian is that when he was hired as GM of the Bills in December of 1985, many thought it was business as usual and an "inside move." Sounds familiar.