Booster4324 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 If that's true Pretty sure that it is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Pretty sure that it is the truth. While we can give all the credit in the world to Ralph for giving us the Bills and keeping the team here for 50 years, he sure has made a lot of boneheaded decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I wish we had brought in Flutie earlier in his career.......when he actually had an arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 What was the final score again? Game was won, RJ was off the field, and then it was lost. Those are the facts, no matter how you spin it. We had the lead when he left the field the final time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) Game was won, RJ was off the field, and then it was lost. Those are the facts, no matter how you spin it. We had the lead when he left the field the final time. So does that mean we won the 1st half of Superbowl 25? Hell, for that matter twenty-eight. Does that mean we actually won one if we add them together? Edited May 21, 2010 by Booster4324 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 So does that mean we won the 1st half of Superbowl 25? Hell, for that matter twenty-eight. Does that mean we actually won one if we add them together? No, what it means is that the QB was not the reason we lost that game. A lack of discipline on ST is the reason we lost that game. What it means is that despite a craptacular OL (TEN FUGGEN YEARS AGO AND NO IMPROVEMENT) RJ had the game in the bag and won. Come on now, booster. You're smarter than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I wish we had brought in Flutie earlier in his career.......when he actually had an arm If I'm wishing, there are countless names higher up on my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 No, what it means is that the QB was not the reason we lost that game. A lack of discipline on ST is the reason we lost that game. What it means is that despite a craptacular OL (TEN FUGGEN YEARS AGO AND NO IMPROVEMENT) RJ had the game in the bag and won. Come on now, booster. You're smarter than this. Rob Johnson's stats from that game: http://www.nfl.com/players/robjohnson/game...amp;season=1999 10/22 131 passing yards, 6 sacks (including a safety), 2 fumbles (1 lost). Like others have said, he sucked the entire game and played good on the last drive...period. Johnson did not win us the game, his play throughout the game lost it for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Rob Johnson's stats from that game: http://www.nfl.com/players/robjohnson/game...amp;season=1999 10/22 131 passing yards, 6 sacks (including a safety), 2 fumbles (1 lost). Like others have said, he sucked the entire game and played good on the last drive...period. Johnson did not win us the game, his play throughout the game lost it for us. That game was a matchup of the two BEST defenses in the league that year. The Titans were not slouches, their defense carried them to the SB and to within inches of defeating StL. The Bills OL that game was as bad as any we've had in the past 11 years. Despite the problems he had ALL game, in the clutch he had it won a'la Ben Rapelisberger, ON THE ROAD. Let's compare that to Flutie's choke escapades in Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 That game was a matchup of the two BEST defenses in the league that year. The Titans were not slouches, their defense carried them to the SB and to within inches of defeating StL. The Bills OL that game was as bad as any we've had in the past 11 years. Despite the problems he had ALL game, in the clutch he had it won a'la Ben Rapelisberger, ON THE ROAD. Let's compare that to Flutie's choke escapades in Miami. Johnson's fumble was turned into 7 points by the Titans, why isn't that mentioned anywhere? Why do fans like yourself blame Flutie for the playoff loss vs Miami? Why isn't the blame put on Eric Moulds and Andre Reed? Eric Moulds was running for a sure TD, then gets the ball popped out from behind him and the Dolphins recover. Andre Reed gets tackled at the goaline and thinks it's a touchdown, but the ref's signal down at the goaline. Reed pleads his case but the ref still says down at the goaline. Then Reed has a hissy hit and hits the ref in the back with the football, getting a game ejection and a 15 yard personal foul penalty. So instead of it being 1st and goal at the goaline, it's 1st and goal at the 15 and we had to settle for a FG. Reed, a veteran WR on the team should have had more composure and kept his cool, he should be held accountable for the loss. With Flutie's fumble, watch it on youtube, Flutie was in throwing motion and Trace Armstrong's helmet blasts Flutie right in the right arm pit. I'm sorry, but that wasn't a cheesy Drew Bledsoe fumble, any QB in the league would have fumbled on the hit from Trace Armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 It's pretty sad that so many people on a Bills message board want to trash one of the best stories of Bills history, which was the time Flutie spent here. Look at the Bills before and after Flutie's time. As someone noted the Bills were 21-10 in games he started, which is pretty damned impressive. But hey, let's trash him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 It's pretty sad that so many people on a Bills message board want to trash one of the best stories of Bills history, which was the time Flutie spent here. Look at the Bills before and after Flutie's time. As someone noted the Bills were 21-10 in games he started, which is pretty damned impressive. But hey, let's trash him anyway. Sorry, the Kelly era Bills of the 90s came before it. Don't even GO there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 It's pretty sad that so many people on a Bills message board want to trash one of the best stories of Bills history, which was the time Flutie spent here. Look at the Bills before and after Flutie's time. As someone noted the Bills were 21-10 in games he started, which is pretty damned impressive. But hey, let's trash him anyway. I agree. IMO, Flutie was a smaller, slower version of Mike Vick. Yes, Flutie made mistakes (but what player doesn't), the guy was smart, very competitive and was fun to watch. I just wish things went different for him here in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Sorry, the Kelly era Bills of the 90s came before it. Don't even GO there!! Here's referring to the year when Todd Collins and Alex Van Pelt were switching back & forth as starting QB. The Bills went 6-10 that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 It's pretty sad that so many people on a Bills message board want to trash one of the best stories of Bills history, which was the time Flutie spent here. Look at the Bills before and after Flutie's time. As someone noted the Bills were 21-10 in games he started, which is pretty damned impressive. But hey, let's trash him anyway. I don't think that "so many people" want to trash him. I think that there are a few irrational folks that do nothing but bash him, just as I think there are a few irrational folks that think he was a far better player than he actually was (i.e. a "stud"). Quotes like the bolded one above make people like myself think that all of the credit for that 21-10 record is going to Flutie, in your eyes (whether that's how you feel or not, I have no idea, but that's how it reads IMO). I can just as easily say that we should look at the team before and after they had a top-5 defense...same results. My question back to you would be: to which entity do you give more credit for the record? One guy on offense, or the entire defensive unit? You see, many of us lie somewhere inbetween the two extremes. I, for example, am not lined up to bash the guy's on-field performance, but rather I simply think that he wasn't nearly as good as he's made out to have been. He was average, which was good enough during a period where the team had a top-5 defense. The real problem, which leads to many a Bills' fan drastically overrating his performance, is that the team hasn't had an average QB since then (save for JP Losman's 2006 campaign, which--as I pointed out earlier--was almost identical to Flutie's '99 season performance). The fact that Flutie's time as an average starting QB in Buffalo is one of the best stories in the team's history should--in my opinion--be an indictment of their historical ineptitude at the position, not a crowning achievement. Just my 1 cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Here's referring to the year when Todd Collins and Alex Van Pelt were switching back & forth as starting QB. The Bills went 6-10 that year. That was one season that came on the heels of a decade of good football. The post smacks of the nostalgia one feels for a dynasty or some other "special" time. Despite going to the playoffs in '98 and '99, the Flutie period in Bills history had that end of an era feel to me. I remember mostly frustration despite their record, and an overwhelming sense that things were spinning out of control. In fact, I don't remember feeling more frustrated during winning football than at that point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 The Bills had the #2 defense the last 2 years under Bledsoe, but went 6-10 and 9-7 during those periods. Bledsoe had a stronger arm than Flutie and when given time, could make more plays, but Bledsoe was the wrong QB for the type of O-line we had. We needed a more mobile QB during that period. Flutie was not great, but he was good enough to get the job done and should have been given the chance to get the job done in the 1999-2000 playoff season. If Flutie lost the game vs the Titans, then the following year is when the Bills should have pulled Flutie and said we're going with Johnson this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Look at 2 Superbowl winning teams with great defenses, the 1985 Bears & the 2000 Ravens. Neither offense was stellar or had a great QB. McMahon was a good QB, but not great. Dilfer was a serviceable QB at best and all he had to do was make 2 to 3 key plays a game to win it for the Ravens. So with teams like that (and I compare the Bills teams of 98 & 99 to them), we didn't need a great offense, just a good enough one to win, and Ralph screwed it up by pulling the plug on Flutie right before the playoffs. It's over with now, let's move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 It all comes down to one question: should Flutie have started the Titan's playoff game? Do the Flutie haters honestly believe starting Rob Johnson was the right choice? Truthfully, benching Flutie when they did was a bad move and I can't stand the guy or the way he played for the bulk of the 1999 season. However, the main issue with how he played that season, tucking the ball and running instead of throwing to wide open WRs, wasn't happening quite as much late in the season. Now, would starting Flutie have won the game? I doubt it..it's doubtful he would've gotten sacked in the endzone like RJ did but he threw almost as many picks as he did TDs that year...might've thrown a pick for TD which would've been even worse than the safety I wish we had brought in Flutie earlier in his career.......when he actually had an arm not me....what? one year earlier? I don't think a year would make that big a difference and to suggest bringing him in earlier than that is akin to heresy...we had an actual NFL QB until a year before the midget was brought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Sorry, the Kelly era Bills of the 90s came before it. Don't even GO there!! Before consisted of Todd Collins and the start of RJ. The team had been declining since '94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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