PTS Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 What a sad day for Poland. The Polish President and many top officials died in a plane crash in Russia. They were on their way to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the massacre in Katyn forest of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/10/po...crashes-russia/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 What a sad day for Poland. The Polish President and many top officials died in a plane crash in Russia. They were on their way to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the massacre in Katyn forest of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/10/po...crashes-russia/ Not to be seem insensitive, but how is that ironic? I think it would be ironic if they were on there way to commemorate the 70th year of the Air Traffic Safety commision in Poland. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britbillsfan Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Not to be seem insensitive, but how is that ironic? I blame Alanis. (A song about irony without anything in it being ironic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huuuge Bills Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 I blame Alanis. (A song about irony without anything in it being ironic) Actually ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 They were flying on an old Russian Tu-154. The Airport is an old Military Airfield with no; Instrument Approach, no Approach Lights, No all weather runway markings, and no weather reporting capability, it was likely a "GCA (Ground Controlled Approach) non-precision approach in Fog. GCA told them to go around because they were too low. It takes a whole lot of power and time to transition a Tu-154 from approach to go-around configuration and maybe they waited too long to try that. I understand that the crash happened on their 4th approach to land. It's a tragic loss for the Poles but could have likely been avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 I blame Alanis. (A song about irony without anything in it being ironic) Not true. There are examples of situational irony (irony of fate) in that song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Not to be seem insensitive, but how is that ironic? I think it would be ironic if they were on there way to commemorate the 70th year of the Air Traffic Safety commision in Poland. But I could be wrong. Situational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Not true. There are examples of situational irony (irony of fate) in that song. Thank you! It's a common misconception that the song contains no examples of irony. Some of the lyrics are not ironic, yes. But... It's a no-smoking sign on your cigarette break It's like rain on your wedding day It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife He won the lottery and died the next day Mr. Play it Safe was afraid to fly...and the plane crashed down All of those things do, in fact, represent irony. "Ironic" is a big pet peeve of mine, because it's not an obscure word but I'd estimate that 10% of our population knows how to use it correctly. Most people use it when describing something unfortunate or coincidental. "Ironically, I lost most of my money on a bad investment." "I love the White Stripes too! That's so ironic." Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Not to be seem insensitive, but how is that ironic? They have killed a large chunk of their leadership who's travelling to a ceremony memorializing the killing of a large chunk of their leadership... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 They have killed a large chunk of their leadership who's travelling to a ceremony memorializing the killing of a large chunk of their leadership... Touché. I was looking more a cause of death. My focus was clearly too narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Thank you! It's a common misconception that the song contains no examples of irony. Some of the lyrics are not ironic, yes. But... It's a no-smoking sign on your cigarette break It's like rain on your wedding day It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife He won the lottery and died the next day Mr. Play it Safe was afraid to fly...and the plane crashed down All of those things do, in fact, represent irony. "Ironic" is a big pet peeve of mine, because it's not an obscure word but I'd estimate that 10% of our population knows how to use it correctly. Most people use it when describing something unfortunate or coincidental. "Ironically, I lost most of my money on a bad investment." "I love the White Stripes too! That's so ironic." Nope. That's my pet peeve, that's so ironic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 yeah, so, anyway, back to the topic: This is just so incredible in this day and age! A First World Nation that transports it's President on an archaic plane to a nowhere airport?? It's stunning. I just can't get my head around how this could be. Are we that far superior that we have a State of the Art plane for our President, complete with crisis plans? I just can't ever see that happening here. Sure, the plane is a mechanical device and nothing is fool proof. But the flight plan they used -with no back up plan- defies logic while encouraging disaster. Sure enough, disaster happened. So sad. So F***ing un-necessary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 yeah, so, anyway, back to the topic: This is just so incredible in this day and age! A First World Nation that transports it's President on an archaic plane to a nowhere airport?? It's stunning. I just can't get my head around how this could be. Are we that far superior that we have a State of the Art plane for our President, complete with crisis plans? I just can't ever see that happening here. Sure, the plane is a mechanical device and nothing is fool proof. But the flight plan they used -with no back up plan- defies logic while encouraging disaster. Sure enough, disaster happened. So sad. So F***ing un-necessary! Keep in mind, when comparing Poland's procedures, to the US's, that the annual operating budget for Air Force One can probably pay for Poland's entire military. So...yes, we are that superior. And the Tupolev isn't THAT bad. Most of its ills apparently come from ****ty third-world pilots flying ****ty export models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Keep in mind, when comparing Poland's procedures, to the US's, that the annual operating budget for Air Force One can probably pay for Poland's entire military. So...yes, we are that superior. And the Tupolev isn't THAT bad. Most of its ills apparently come from ****ty third-world pilots flying ****ty export models. Did you ever watch that special on History Channel about AF-1... They have a whole 'nother one ready to go. It was fascinating they wax both planes by hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Poland's leadership structure is devastated. It's incredible that they were all on the same flight. DC Tom mentioned above the budgetary differences between the USA and Poland, which likely played a role in having so many top bureaucrats on the same plane. And they were travelling to a rather remote area, it wasn't as if they were catching flights to JFK. In addition to the President, deaths included: On board were the national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, Olympic Committee head, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, the Polish foreign ministry said. Kaczynski's wife, Maria, also died. The Polish military suffered the deepest losses. Among the dead were the army chief of staff, the navy chief commander, and heads of the air and land forces. Sad loss for the Poles. It's hard to imagine Barack and Michelle, Clinton, Geithner, Gates, Napolitano, Pelosi, and 85 other senators, bureaucrats, and Pentagon officials all dying in a plane crash. Regardless of your political leanings, this would be a crushing void to fill for any nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Poland's leadership structure is devastated. It's incredible that they were all on the same flight. DC Tom mentioned above the budgetary differences between the USA and Poland, which likely played a role in having so many top bureaucrats on the same plane. And they were travelling to a rather remote area, it wasn't as if they were catching flights to JFK. In addition to the President, deaths included: Sad loss for the Poles. It's hard to imagine Barack and Michelle, Clinton, Geithner, Gates, Napolitano, Pelosi, and 85 other senators, bureaucrats, and Pentagon officials all dying in a plane crash. Regardless of your political leanings, this would be a crushing void to fill for any nation. Not that I would wish death on anyone but losing any of them would be an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Not that I would wish death on anyone but losing any of them would be an improvement. I would keep the Pentagon officials. The rest can go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Not that I would wish death on anyone but losing any of them would be an improvement. Yes the next guys would certainly have your personal best interests in mind. Take care of yourself, don't wait for the talking asses in expensive suits to do it for you. I was merely commenting on the upheaval caused and challenges faced when losing your top 6 dignitaries in the power pyramid, plus 80 other top-level bureaucrats. As prepared as any nation could possibly be, there just isn't a contingency plan for that. The USA may have something on paper as to who assumes what command, but it wouldn't go swimmingly in any nation, here or Poland or elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Yes the next guys would certainly have your personal best interests in mind. Take care of yourself, don't wait for the talking asses in expensive suits to do it for you. I was merely commenting on the upheaval caused and challenges faced when losing your top 6 dignitaries in the power pyramid, plus 80 other top-level bureaucrats. As prepared as any nation could possibly be, there just isn't a contingency plan for that. The USA may have something on paper as to who assumes what command, but it wouldn't go swimmingly in any nation, here or Poland or elsewhere. This is what has me in awe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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