Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I had read the Soldier Field renovation went as high as $550 million. Everything I remember reading about the Lambeau renovation was as you posted, $300 million range. How much did the previous renovation of Ralphie field cost? What was done again, those dugout suites, back in 1998? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I had read the Soldier Field renovation went as high as $550 million. Everything I remember reading about the Lambeau renovation was as you posted, $300 million range. How much did the previous renovation of Ralphie field cost? What was done again, those dugout suites, back in 1998? And how long did it take? Did they do it all in one offseason? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobesBLO13 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I had read the Soldier Field renovation went as high as $550 million. Everything I remember reading about the Lambeau renovation was as you posted, $300 million range. How much did the previous renovation of Ralphie field cost? What was done again, those dugout suites, back in 1998? Not sure how reliable a source but this is where I found the Soldier Field number... http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/ChicagoBears/newindex.htm Cost of Construction...$10 Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ok, here is another version with half of the stadium's 300 level seating still intact, and the other half being renovated. This one also has the end zone club seats intact. It's an evolving idea... http://i45.tinypic.com/10qko4m.jpg Does you plan require tearing down the upper decks? How do you replace those seats? Can we put an inflatable dome on it? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Very ambitious to create the photo. Although you left out some details like the end zone club seats on the tunnel end. Are you proposing dismantling all that or did you just forget it was there? Seems excessively expensive to demolish sections of the stadium just to put up a smallish video scoreboard. Also, where do the Bills play while RWS is being rebuilt? The Rogers Centre? The Carrier Dome? You're dreaming if you think you can do all that in one offseason. Then there is the matter of the narrow concourses that are all underground. Those cannot be altered because you can't dig under the supports for the clubs and upper deck. Realistically you would be better off building a new stadium than trying to renovate RWS. You have room across Abbott Road by ECC South. You'd lose a lot of parking during construction, 2 or 3 years, but you can deal with it for the short term. Then you could add the Bills equivalent of a "Patriot* Place" afterwards. Of course you're still in jerkwater Orchard Park. No one is going to go there unless a game is going on. PTR Also, it is possible that the Bills could play their regular season games at the Carrier Dome at the University of Syracuse while the stadium is being redone. It houses 50,000 and it isn't that much of a trek for Bills fans. Especially if the fans know the stadium is being upgraded in Orchard Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Does you plan require tearing down the upper decks? How do you replace those seats? Can we put an inflatable dome on it? PTR Just trying to be positive PTR. I see where there is reason to be skeptical. But, part of renovation is tearing things down. That is the reality of the situation. The seats (as you can see in the picture) become luxury boxes, and there is more seating created by wrapping the boxes around the other endzone. Which right now is just empty space for the most part. Once again, this is all just a dream at this point. Open to any other ideas you have as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Also, it is possible that the Bills could play their regular season games at the Carrier Dome at the University of Syracuse while the stadium is being redone. It houses 50,000 and it isn't that much of a trek for Bills fans. Especially if the fans know the stadium is being upgraded in Orchard Park You have over 55,000 season ticket holders so who has to give up their seats? Plus you lose 23,000 tickets to sell. At an average of $59 you are losing over $12.2 million a season. You would have to raise the average to $79 to make up the loss. Carrier Dome is on campus with zero parking. Forget about tailgating. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 You have over 55,000 season ticket holders so who has to give up their seats? Plus you lose 23,000 tickets to sell. At an average of $59 you are losing over $12.2 million a season. You would have to raise the average to $79 to make up the loss. Carrier Dome is on campus with zero parking. Forget about tailgating. PTR It may be a sacrifice that fans are willing to make to keep the team around. I'm not sure there is a solution here that involves every fan being happy. And it's possible that a slight increase in prices for tickets could make up the difference. I don't know, just throwing ideas out there. It's better than the Rogers Center in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Bottom line we need to build a NEW stadium. Not put hundreds of millions in an old POS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsindayton Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Go the route of the Packers when they upgraded Lambeau Field. Take the existing stadium, and make it a place where people visit in the offseason. Make it a theme park / museum of sorts. A statue of Curly Lambeau and Vince Lombardi stand outside the stadium like ghosts as visitors frequent the stadium year round. The stadium tours, Packers team gear stores, restaurants, and bars in the new Field House attached to the stadium make it a place you can bring your family for a day of fun. This would increase the revenue the stadium brings in by a big number. If you want the Bills to stay in Buffalo, this may be one of the only options. And a much cheaper option than building a whole new stadium. This is what a "Lambeau Stadium Redo" might look like in Buffalo: I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Just trying to be positive PTR. I see where there is reason to be skeptical. But, part of renovation is tearing things down. That is the reality of the situation. The seats (as you can see in the picture) become luxury boxes, and there is more seating created by wrapping the boxes around the other endzone. Which right now is just empty space for the most part. Once again, this is all just a dream at this point. Open to any other ideas you have as well. I'm not knocking you for trying but you have to ask questions. If you say "let's do A" you have to consider the impact of everything. You said you have a budget of $150M. I think tearing stuff down and building new stands will cost you way way more than that. Rather than altering the layout of RWS, how about building a wall around the whole stadium and capping it with a large inflatable dome similar to the Carrier Dome. Once you have all that new indoor space, you can build new concessions and bathrooms in the spaces that are currently outside the stadium. You can't expand the tunnels but maybe you can blast through some of the walls to make walkways to reach those new areas. That you might be able to do for $200 million. Also you could still use the stadium while the renovating. You build the wall during offseason one, you add the roof and blast walkways during offseason two, then finish up in offseason three. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 It may be a sacrifice that fans are willing to make to keep the team around. I'm not sure there is a solution here that involves every fan being happy. And it's possible that a slight increase in prices for tickets could make up the difference. I don't know, just throwing ideas out there. It's better than the Rogers Center in Toronto. That is a very optimistic statement. Everyone who wants to give up their Bills seasons for the next 2-3 years please raise your hands! The answer is do a renovation that does not render the stadium useless for three years. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Go the route of the Packers when they upgraded Lambeau Field. Take the existing stadium, and make it a place where people visit in the offseason. Make it a theme park / museum of sorts. A statue of Curly Lambeau and Vince Lombardi stand outside the stadium like ghosts as visitors frequent the stadium year round. The stadium tours, Packers team gear stores, restaurants, and bars in the new Field House attached to the stadium make it a place you can bring your family for a day of fun. This would increase the revenue the stadium brings in by a big number. If you want the Bills to stay in Buffalo, this may be one of the only options. And a much cheaper option than building a whole new stadium. This is what a "Lambeau Stadium Redo" might look like in Buffalo: http://i48.tinypic.com/w6wrjr.jpg Update: Alternative with more 300 level seating: http://i45.tinypic.com/10qko4m.jpg I know I will get blasted for this..but who wants to visit the Ralph in the off season. What, so we can all reminisce about 4 SB lossses, not getting in the playoffs for 10 years or the .370 win percentage during the overall existence of the franchise. Please dont get GB and B-lo confused. Gb has a mystic to it and Buffalo doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Thank you for the realistic view of the Bills situation. I personally think the "redo" is better for the fans and the bottom line. And yes, the ownership is different with the Packers. They were able to move their project forward with the fans in mind, because they're owned by fans. But Buffalo is a similar city in that the Bills are a huge part of their culture and livelihood. Just as the Packers love Brett Favre (not as much recently) and Reggie White, and grasp on to the history of the team behind Lambeau and Lombardi... the Bills fans love Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith, and hold the history of the team behind Levy and Wilson dear in their hearts. The Ralph can become a monument of sorts. A tribute to the history of a team that has played such a huge part in the lives of Western New Yorkers. If you've ever visited Lambeau field, you would know what I mean. And I believe the Ralph can be that same place for the fans of Buffalo. i have been saying that very thing for a couple of years now. the greatest comeback, the legacy of the 4 straight super bowl teams, tearing down the goalposts after beating miami in 1980, smerlas, haslett coming out on the field after a snowy victory over the rams in the early 80's. there is much history to that place. it started out as a very sterile , spartan stadium in 1973. now, after being the stage for a region's soul, it should be celebrated and preserved. it has now developed it's own charm now. the new stadiums in cleveland, baltimore and cincy are all cookie cutter stadiums, much like the round, multi-purpose monstrocities built in the early 70's. the race has been on to re-create the character of yesterday, i think we have a gem in the ralph, if the powers that be make it happen and think creatively. the fact it is debt free helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 And how long did it take? Did they do it all in one offseason? PTR I think you know very well that the Bears ended up playing elsewhere for a season. Their renovations took a year or so. The Packers never played elsewhere but their renovations went for two years. Kansas City is a two-year project as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 That is a very optimistic statement. Everyone who wants to give up their Bills seasons for the next 2-3 years please raise your hands! The answer is do a renovation that does not render the stadium useless for three years. PTR Here's a caption from when the Packers rebuilt Lambeau and when Chicago rebuilt Soldier Field: "The massive redevelopment plan was designed to update the facilities, add more premium and suite seating, yet preserve the seating bowl, keeping the storied natural grass playing field of the "frozen tundra." The project was completed in time for the 2003 season, bringing the current capacity to 72,928. Construction management was conducted by Turner Construction Sports, and proved to be of remarkably little disruption to the 2001 and 2002 seasons. By contrast, the Chicago Bears needed to relocate to Memorial Stadium of the University of Illinois in Champaign in 2002 while Soldier Field was reconfigured." It is a bold statement to say that people would give up season tickets... but so is the team moving to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 just build a stadium that the bills and ub could share. have ub pay something like 15-33%(i know it's a wide range) of the cost, and the bills pick up the rest. ub would really benefit from having access to the bills professional training facilities, ect when it comes to recruiting. and i dont think there is any way a stadium goes to niagara county. erie county politicians would have a fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 More about the Packers redevelopment: On game days, fans benefit from many of the same 21-st century amenities typically found in the shiny but sterile, newer facilities that have sprouted up across the country in recent years -- everything from wider concourses (including a new, upper concourse) to enhanced concession areas to modernized and increased restroom facilities (particularly for female fans), to a club level for suite and club seat patrons. Two new scoreboards also highlighted the project. Developed by Daktronics, Inc., of Brookings, S.D., the boards -- one each in the north and south end zones -- measure 41 feet high and 162 feet wide. Both feature full-color LED video displays of 27 feet high by 48 feet wide, in addition to scoring, statistical and general information panels. The 32-month, $295-million redevelopment of Lambeau was completed on time -- and on budget -- with the Packers remaining in Green Bay to play all of their games throughout the process. Put into motion by a county-wide referendum that approved a half-cent sales tax increase on Sept. 12, 2000, the project was financed jointly by the city of Green Bay, county taxpayers, the Packers and the NFL. The Packers' football facilities -- a vital element in attracting players in today's ultra-competitive NFL -- also were enhanced greatly by the stadium's redevelopment, debuting in time for the 2002 season. The centerpiece of these quarters is a breathtaking, 64-by-120 foot, football-shaped locker room with 64 stately, wooden lockers. Another 25 lockers can be found in an adjoining, auxiliary locker room, to be utilized during training camp. The new football facilities also feature a much larger training room with all of the latest therapy pools as well as a permanent X-ray machine, a new weight room, individual position meeting rooms with theatre-style seating, a 150-plus seat team auditorium, a basketball court with a parquet wood floor, a racquetball court, a team dining room and a players' lounge. Revenue generated from the Packers Pro Shop, Packers Hall of Fame, Curly's Pub, the Atrium eateries and other restaurants, the stadium club and special events, as well as other Atrium businesses is essential to the Packers' long-term survival. In just the first year, with only the new Pro Shop open and several gate sponsorships sold, the Packers' NFL revenue ranking for the fiscal year 2002-03 jumped to 10th, up from 20th the prior year. The rest can be found here: http://www.lambeaufield.com/stadium_info/history/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 If you want to see the newly-developed infrastructure at Arrowhead, check the link below and watch the video "Laying the Foundation, Part 2" http://www.kcchiefs.com/arrowhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Valid point, and I agree that it will be tough to raise funds. But this is an alternative idea to a complete move and rebuild. With a brand new stadium, you're looking at $900 mil to $1 billion in funds. With an upgrade tot he current structure like Lambeau or Soldier Field, you're looking at $150-$250 million. That's a pretty HUGE difference. If it means keeping the Bills in Buffalo, this has to be at least considered. Lambeau cost 295 million, Soldier 365 million. While Ralph lives, there will be no hope for such a project if it involves him coughing up more than he currently pays in "rent". Move on, boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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