Ex-Pro Athlete SLAMS Haiti relief effort...

[qwksilver]

I know there is another place for this post, but I think it deserves to be posted right where I have put it. For the sole purpose that I only associate with the people in this specific forum and I do not think I have ever posted elsewhere. Therefore, I would like some feedback, thoughts and comments from all or as many of you, as I can get to read this and chime in.

 

This article just completely twisted my brain and flabbergasted me. I am in "Awe" and astounded that a professional athlete, who has gotten so much out of life, a majority of which I am sure was free, could say such things as he does in this article. However, I kind of, and I don't know why, agree with some of the points he tries to get across. Actually, the only thing that sticks out in my mind, like my Mother said a week ago, is why don't we teach these people about "birth control?"

 

That is the only thing I will comment on, is the birth control, until I see how others feel. I do not want to offend anybody.

 

 

PLEASE read this and share your thoughts on this article and how it relevantly relates to the situation in Haiti.

 

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010...ians-use-condom

 

 

 

*This is something new to talk about. Something to take our minds off of our inept front office and the lackluster offseason our beloved Buffalo Bills have embarked on. There is nothing religious or political about this either. Please try to keep it that way, as well as somewhat positive, serious and non-offensive. (May be VERY hard to do, but please just try?)

 

 

THANK YOU - I hope to hear from MANY of you on this specific topic. (Not Haiti itself, but the article about the disaster.)

 

Sincerely,

Byrdman

 

 

One of the posters said:

 

"maybe HIS parents should have used a condom" SPOT ON!

[metzelaars_lives]

a) Astonishingly well written.

b) It's also astonishing that someone so smart can be so unbelievably ignorant simultaneously.

c) I would bet my life savings right now that he is a Republican. And give you 10 to 1 odds. It sounds like something Ann Coulter would say.

[metzelaars_lives]

I hope Shirley is re-incarnated as one of 15 children in a hut in the middle of the Sahara so he can build infrastructures and then help his people avoid natural disasters. Or figure out a way to move to another continent so he can escape the poverty around him. This article is unfathomable.

[todzilla]

Thanks for posting this Byrd. Very interesting reading, and it's nice to see everyone stay on topic and give mostly intelligent opinions. I agree with alot of what Shirley says and have enjoyed reading him in the past, but I think he is oversimplifying the solution. Ignoring the suffering to prove a point about living conditions still leaves thousands suffering and hungary. I think that is why I donated, in the hopes that someone injured, thirsty, or starving will be able to find some comfort. I was watching the telethon and saw a 2 year old whose parents were both killed and then looked over at my daughter playing on a comfortable rug with a full belly and was suddenly very thankful for what we have and felt compelled to do what I could.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Thank goodness this wasn't posted on PPP...right now, there'd be about 200 responses and we'd be bickering about global warming.

 

As for Shirley's opinion...well, he's clearly way too up on his high horse to really see the suffering that is happening right now. I dare him (and some of you) to travel to Haiti, look a starving child in the eyes, and say "Sorry kid, but if I just give you a handout...what did you REALLY LEARN?"

[RuntheDamnBall]

I hope Shirley is re-incarnated as one of 15 children in a hut in the middle of the Sahara so he can build infrastructures and then help his people avoid natural disasters. Or figure out a way to move to another continent so he can escape the poverty around him. This article is unfathomable.

THIS.

[DC Tom]

This article is unfathomable.

 

I disagree. It's obnoxious as hell, but not the least bit unfathomable. It's a cornerstone of American policy and thought that everyone on the planet is just a misguided American...so why the hell wouldn't an American be wondering "Why can't the Haitians take care of themselves like we do?"

 

Massively ignorant, like I said...but not the least bit unfathomable.

[stinky finger]

What do you do them when they are out at sea?

 

whack-a-mole?

[metzelaars_lives]

I disagree. It's obnoxious as hell, but not the least bit unfathomable. It's a cornerstone of American policy and thought that everyone on the planet is just a misguided American...so why the hell wouldn't an American be wondering "Why can't the Haitians take care of themselves like we do?"

 

Massively ignorant, like I said...but not the least bit unfathomable.

 

It's a cornerstone of neo-Conservative American ideology.

[DC Tom]

It's a cornerstone of neo-Conservative American ideology.

 

The only difference between neo-Cons and other Americans is that the neo-Cons consciously decide to indulge that particular prejudice. But there's plenty of examples from American politics and culture otherwise that demonstrate precisely the same stupidity.

[Guest dog14787]

I think his article shows an egocentric outlook and lack of empathy.

 

Being born in Michigan or in his case California, It's easy to look at other areas and say that's a stupid place to live. But the truth is people tend to stay in the area they were born in and certainly within the continent/country they were born in. The poorer the country, the further other countries are, the more this is true. I don't pretend to know the history of Haiti or why they have such high poverty levels. I imagine if they had the option to build wood/metal framed houses and use reinforced concrete they probably would have used it. Perhaps the government should have done more, perhaps the people should have done more. I don't know how much they could have done, again I'm not Haitian.

 

This guy presumes a lot of things here. Maybe if he was born into Haitian society it would be easier for him to understand why things happened like they did. Maybe I'm a sucker and my money will be wasted. Still the thought of so many kids parent less, some with no comprehension of whats even happening..... So much human suffering. If my money can help somebody even get a sip of clean water, well I'm glad I did it.

 

 

Giving in an emergency situation like this doesn't make you a sucker it makes you a hero because it helps save lives.

 

Every man and woman should be treated equal on this earth, but every man and woman are not born on an equal playing field with the same opportunities available to them. Some folks face an up hill battle just trying to survive from day to day.

 

Helping our neighbor in another Country is no different then helping our neighbor next door because he is sick and can't harvest his crops and without the income his family will struggle.

 

Lending a helping hand is our way of giving back and thanking God for all that he has given us...

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

a) Astonishingly well written.

b) It's also astonishing that someone so smart can be so unbelievably ignorant simultaneously.

c) I would bet my life savings right now that he is a Republican. And give you 10 to 1 odds. It sounds like something Ann Coulter would say.

 

 

A moderate Republican? A far right Republican? A Conservative? What?

 

It's funny you'd think that. If I was a betting man, I'd read into it that he was a liberal. Not a democrat per se, just a liberal. He has a lots of thoughts but isn't willing to be part of the solution financially. Everyone else can do it, he's just the idea man.

 

It's hard to find people as self-absorbed as this guy is, but they're out there. Crazy liberal hoops player.

 

 

I'm a conservative republican, and I feel nothing but empathy for the people of Haiti. I've been invovled in the clean-up phase of many natural disasters in this country, by the way. The huge difference between "us" and "them" is the infrastrucute we have at our disposal. Left to their own devices, many, many people in this country would live the after-effects of a hurricane and have no place to live, no money to rebuild, no plan to get on with their lives, and sit and wait for the government (aka our infrastructure) to take care of everything. they would probably have some cool body piercings, a couple cell phones, and a pack of smokes though. interestingly, i'd still feel empathy for them and try and help them out.

 

crazy republicans.

[yungmack]

As the old adage goes, opinions are like a-holes: everyone has one, and most of them stink. Mine too I suppose. But wouldn't it be better for all of us if people actually based their biases - er, opinions - on facts, which can be gained with maybe a little more study of history? Then we wouldn't have to sound like Archie Bunkers, braying away at the end of the bar. So here are my comments on two of the more prevalent opinions being expressed as facts.

 

High Birth Rate = High Poverty. Even the most cursory study of demographics and economics shows that that formula is exactly backward. It should be: High Poverty = High Birthrate. Since birth control has become widely available in the years since WWII, the birthrate has dropped in countries around the world precisely as the populations in those countries attained greater economic stability (the Middle Class effect). This is true even in such staunchly Catholic countries as Italy, Spain, Ireland and most recently in Mexico, where the birthrate has stabilized and begun to drop with the growth in the economy. Where high birthrates continue in these countries and others such as India, it is found almost exclusively among the poor. Middle class Mexicans, Indians, Egyptians and others tend to have two or three children. China of course has the One Child laws. But interestingly, and even though you can pay a stiff fine and have more than one child, the well-to-do there seem not to want to have more than two children.

 

Haitian History: When the French Revolution broke out, with its declaration of Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite, the slaves in Haiti made the not-unexceptional conclusion that this should apply to them as well. And so, inspired as well by the recent revolution in the US, they revolted against their "masters." It was long, it was bloody, and it was finally successful. Haiti became only the second independent republic in the western hemisphere. Then, having chosen to hew more to the American form of governance than the French, turned to the US in expectation of support. Instead, it got the back of our hand, largely because the slave owning aristocracy in the US was in shrieking fear that their slaves would rise up and slaughter every last one of them. Which, come to think of it, would have spared the rest of us the god-awful cost of the Civil War.

 

As my fellow Marines, former or active, can tell you, Haiti has been interfered with ever since. Throughout the 19th century and well into the 20th, the Caribbean and Latin America were practically training camps for the Corps. That, of course, was at the order of the federal government, which then as now was beholden to special interests who wanted to exploit the resources of those nations. Then the fear of omnipotent Communism led the US into supporting one of the most brutal and violent dictators in the world, Doc Duvalier, and later his son, Baby Doc, and their Ton Ton Macoute, effectively undermining any remnants of democracy in an unequalled reign of terror (which the American taxpayers subsidized). Today the country is effectively owned, lock, stock and two smoking barrels, by six families, all with cozy relationships to American elites going back generations.

[blade]

What the F? F-HAITI. F-HAITI. F-HAITI

 

The Domincan Republic is on the same island as Haiti and is much better off as a country than Haiti. This guy is like many other people in this country. We get d-bag foundations like the Red Cross and other people saying we need to give money we worked hard to earn to some country that is corrupt and will just waste it. If you feel the need to be charitable, go to the corner bum, buy him a Big Mac. He deserves as much charity as some people in Haiti.

 

Some could argue they are prisoners of their government. Does that mean the USA has to run over there and save them? We cannot even save ourselves in this mess of a country. Even Cuba has a better economy than Haiti. That we should spend one ounce giving half of a second of thought during a commercial of a rerun of a show we hate is a joke. What country has ever come to our aid during national tragedies? Other than 9/11, I cannot think of anything. Maybe Canada helps us on a few things but I am sure we pay them. What are we going to do to help them? Rebuild homes for them when children here in this country are as bad off? Are we that hypocritcal of a country to neglect our own to protect someone who, quite frankly, is not as important as someone in our own country?

 

Another fun point... it took us how long to get in to New Orleans to help out? A week? Yet, we're dropping off our own soldiers to play police officer in a foreign country? What will it gain? We have a freakin war going on people! New Orleans, though, should have fixed its levies and I wish we wouldn't have saved that place.

 

Stop giving blindly to charity. Research good charities if you're going to give. The United Way and the Red Cross are practicing nearly organized crime! Give to local charities, look in to their tax filings. Doctors Without Boarders is a good charity, for example.

 

We feel bad for this place because it is plastered on the news every five seconds. In the past 2 weeks their have been 6 other earthquakes with a magnitude of 5 or higher all breezed over in the news. How many soldiers have died in the two weeks? How has our government done on this whole healthcare bill? What has happened locally in your area since? What important things are really going on right now that are being left aside to cover this? They knew earthquakes were coming. They were warned. They brought it on themselves. It is just the way it goes, it is unfortunate, but it is life. A chance, a gift, and you cannot always control it. While I do feel bad that people are suffering, I care more about what is going on in my own house, in my own neighborhood, in my own country. After all of that, I will think about Haiti...and do nothing.

 

Are you serious? Who helps us? Not to many, but let me educate you. For years the U.S. has had to have China purchasing our treasury bonds to keep this government running. Yes because we're trillions of dollars in debt because of overspending, mismanagement of money, and yes corruption. Yes, we have that in the U.S. as well. The fact that you would compare the level of poverty of a person in the U.S. to someone in Haiti is beyond idiotic. If a homeless person in the U.S. is really in a desperate situation there are many fastfood places where a person could go if they had to and see if anything edible which was thrown out. That isn't an option for most Haitians. In most cities in the U.S. there are several soup kitchens or food pantries for those down on their luck. That's not the case in Haiti. I think you would have to search ridiculaslly hard for someone if anyone who is literally starving to death. The U.S. is one of the most obese countries in the world. Many in Haiti are literally starving to death.A lot of people there actually eat mudpies to try to stop their hunger. The poorest people in the U.S. would probably be viewed as upper middle class at worse in Haiti. Sure there is corruption in the Haitian government as there is in the U.S. government or any other country the only difference is that the U.S. and those other countries have enough resources to maintain their standard of living despite the corruption going on. As far as the Dominican Republic, you are wrong on that too. My pastor is Dominican and he talks about it all the time. Although they are not as poor as Haiti they are very poor as well.

 

You should keep in mind that Haiti has had had it's independence since 1804 from brutal enslavement by France. Since then besides some monetery aid no country has helped Haiti in becoming more developed. When the French were there it's not like they were there building schools, building infrastructure, and setting up different industries. For the most part the only thing happening when France was there was the harvesting of sugar on plantations by slaves. When those slaves revolted and took the island the French left without teaching those people anything about higher education or trades where they could make money. Since 1804 Haitians have for the most part been left to fend for themselves and they did what they could with the meager resources that they had and still have. Yes in Haiti's time the people heve been victims of corrupt government, but they are not alone in that. Either way it's not the fault of the people of Haiti that people in the government took advantage of bad situations during their time (remember Mao in China or Castro in Cuba). Although you might not think of them as such the Haitians are people too, some of which helped Americans in our Revolutionary War. Yes they did look it up. The Haitian people are desperate and are reaching out for help. Just because you are so myopic and can't see that no one in the U.S. can compare his/her condition to that of those in Haiti doesn't mean you should speak poorly of those who do have the means and a concious to help others in a terrible situation.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Thank goodness this wasn't posted on PPP...right now, there'd be about 200 responses and we'd be bickering about global warming.

As for Shirley's opinion...well, he's clearly way too up on his high horse to really see the suffering that is happening right now. I dare him (and some of you) to travel to Haiti, look a starving child in the eyes, and say "Sorry kid, but if I just give you a handout...what did you REALLY LEARN?"

 

 

What are you saying? You a "suit" or "dungaree" man... State thee!

 

This thread is too sterile!

 

[DC Tom]

As the old adage goes, opinions are like a-holes: everyone has one, and most of them stink. Mine too I suppose. But wouldn't it be better for all of us if people actually based their biases - er, opinions - on facts...

 

 

Are you serious? Who helps us? Not to many, but let me educate you...

 

 

I think this article pretty much covers it.

[blade]

I guess nature has a way of dealing with a variety of things. I think they call it natural selection or only the strong survive. While I feel for these people they do not have any formal rights to aid from anybody but themselves. Whatever happened to individual responsibility? That's a term being phased out of our language very quickly.

 

In the past, lazy people were punished with a meager lifestyle and existence. Now, we provide mucho "benefits" and "entitlements" to the lazy and unmotivated. Need more cash - have another baby....Didn't work enough for Social Security? no problem we'll give you SSI. Are you unfortunately physically healthy and able to work but don't want to - no problem we have a myriad of designer mental health conditions such as depression, moodiness, stress etc, etc etc to ensure you get the money you are "entitled to"...

 

This whole structure is beginning to crumble as there are too many people getting hand-outs who don't work and that number gets larger every year... We're doomed....

 

First let me say I'm American and I love this country but let's not forget or rewrite history. Much of the money used to set up some of the biggest companies and industries in the U.S. came off of the back of slaves not from their lazy slave master owners who were to lazy to pick cotton or do what ever other hard work there was to do themselves. Just because someone is poor doesn't make them lazy. Do you know how huch minimum wage in Haiti is 3 dollars a day. Not an hour but per day and many gladly work those jobs because it is all they have. Would you do well on that?

 

I suppose the colonists fron Great Britain who took the U.S. from the Native Americans were to lazy to take over one of the other European countries which had weapons comparable to theirs to fight back with, unlike the Native Americans.

[blade]

I think this article pretty much covers it.

 

Um what are you trying to get across with that website (which is not funny if that was your intention)?

[metzelaars_lives]

A moderate Republican? A far right Republican? A Conservative? What?

 

It's funny you'd think that. If I was a betting man, I'd read into it that he was a liberal. Not a democrat per se, just a liberal. He has a lots of thoughts but isn't willing to be part of the solution financially. Everyone else can do it, he's just the idea man.

 

It's hard to find people as self-absorbed as this guy is, but they're out there. Crazy liberal hoops player.

 

 

I'm a conservative republican, and I feel nothing but empathy for the people of Haiti. I've been invovled in the clean-up phase of many natural disasters in this country, by the way. The huge difference between "us" and "them" is the infrastrucute we have at our disposal. Left to their own devices, many, many people in this country would live the after-effects of a hurricane and have no place to live, no money to rebuild, no plan to get on with their lives, and sit and wait for the government (aka our infrastructure) to take care of everything. they would probably have some cool body piercings, a couple cell phones, and a pack of smokes though. interestingly, i'd still feel empathy for them and try and help them out.

 

crazy republicans.

 

Alright, this is the stuff I like. Thanks for responding. Notice nowhere in my brief post did I say that every registered Republican in the United States is unable to feel compassion for the less fortunate. Tim Tebow, for instance, I'm guessing is a Republican because he is all about JC. That guys embodies what JC was intended to be all about. Sadly, he is in the vast, vast minority. The connection between JC and Republicans? I have no idea, but the vastly superior Republican marketing machine has been able to convince simple-minded Americans who do not think for themselves that JC would've walked into a voting booth last November, sandals, robe and all, and cast a vote for a ticket that had Sarah Palin on it. At any rate, you may be a conservative for fiscal reasons or whatever and that's fine, but just remember, you're voting for the same leaders as Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson, Mel Gibson, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and Larry the Cable Guy. And if you really don't think that as a GENERAL RULE in 2010, a so-called "liberal" in the United States doesn't tend to be more compassionate, friendly, giving, caring, open-minded than a "conservative" then you are not worth arguing with. Please take me up on that bet by the way! 10 to 1 odds, I'm sure we could find out rather easily. Email me personally.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just another nut case running his mouth. The easy thing to do is to write a letter or a blog post about what they see as wrong with the world. It's harder for them to actually get off their fat duffs and do anything about it.

Their "convictions" are in name only, to cover their hidden desire for attention.

 

 

So when are you heading to Haiti?