34-78-83 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 His job is to watch the games. He has to be as unbiased as possible. Oline get by on reptuation in this league. Peters isn't as bad as some people want to make him out to be. But he also isn't as great as some others what to make him to be either. Peters at $11 million is not better than Schobel or Evans at their salaries. Good players for sure, but not elite. 1- I have no concern for salary 1st off, but actually can understand some of the Bills reasoning for having no choice but to let him go because he wasn't gonna give 100% here for whatever reason. 2- If it wasn't so painfully clear how good he is as a tackle (when motivated) just by watching a few plays as a seasoned football fan ,I wouldn't even bother to post. He is certainly every bit as good as a guy like Ogden was for example. It's just so clear I can't understand why there's so much debate.. Oh wait.. the bitterness of Fans (I know I know, the Philly guy). There are only a handful of excellent LT's in the league currently and he is one of them. His combo of Strength, Quickness, Footwork, Bend and technique are extremely rare. He might be an A-Hole and Selfish but as a football player he is quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 1- I have no concern for salary 1st off, but actually can understand some of the Bills reasoning for having no choice but to let him go because he wasn't gonna give 100% here for whatever reason.2- If it wasn't so painfully clear how good he is as a tackle (when motivated) just by watching a few plays as a seasoned football fan ,I wouldn't even bother to post. He is certainly every bit as good as a guy like Ogden was for example. It's just so clear I can't understand why there's so much debate.. Oh wait.. the bitterness of Fans (I know I know, the Philly guy). There are only a handful of excellent LT's in the league currently and he is one of them. His combo of Strength, Quickness, Footwork, Bend and technique are extremely rare. He might be an A-Hole and Selfish but as a football player he is quite good. Fair points all around but Peters is not on the same planet as Odgen. Do you really think JO got beat like Peters does? I think Peters is an athletic freak and a good tackle. But he's not elite and he is paid like one. 5 blindside hits allowed by your LT does not equal a pro bowler to me. And the part where you said when motivated bothers me. I would never have a guy like that on the team. Talent-wise, Peters could be the best LT in football. But intelligence, injuries, and mental laspes will always prevent the guy from reaching there. He is no better than Tra Thomas was for the Eagles last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Fair points all around but Peters is not on the same planet as Odgen. Do you really think JO got beat like Peters does? I think Peters is an athletic freak and a good tackle. But he's not elite and he is paid like one. 5 blindside hits allowed by your LT does not equal a pro bowler to me. And the part where you said when motivated bothers me. I would never have a guy like that on the team. Talent-wise, Peters could be the best LT in football. But intelligence, injuries, and mental laspes will always prevent the guy from reaching there. He is no better than Tra Thomas was for the Eagles last year. Tra was pretty darn good there for a little while...I think JP is better, but anyway. I definitely understand your point about his head and mental lapses, he isn't the brightest bulb so that probably won't allow him to achieve as much as he could. Ogden was abused by our very own Aaron Schobel in a game if I recall correctly. So was Orlando Pace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Fair points all around but Peters is not on the same planet as Odgen. Do you really think JO got beat like Peters does? I think Peters is an athletic freak and a good tackle. But he's not elite and he is paid like one. 5 blindside hits allowed by your LT does not equal a pro bowler to me. And the part where you said when motivated bothers me. I would never have a guy like that on the team. Talent-wise, Peters could be the best LT in football. But intelligence, injuries, and mental laspes will always prevent the guy from reaching there. He is no better than Tra Thomas was for the Eagles last year. Ogden was obviously great, but he certainly had his bad games. He was the starting LT for a very bad offense (the 2000 Ravens), a team that gave up 43 sacks despite holding a lead in most of their games. They also gave up 56 in 1999. I don't know how many Ogden was "responsible" (a word I hesitate to even use because people abuse it) for, but given the high number, I'm guessing it was at least some. In fact, the Ravens gave up at least 40 sacks every year except one (2004) between 1998 and 2005. They only gave up 17 in 2006, a season in which Ogden was in decline (he missed a couple of games). People are somehow under the impression that good tackles don't give up sacks. They all do - it's part of the game. That doesn't make Ogden - or Peters, for that matter - overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 5 blindside hits allowed by your LT does not equal a pro bowler to me. How should a pro bowler be measured? Simply by number of sacks? Should it be a combination of sacks, QB hits and QB pressures? Should performance on running plays be included? Using a number of sacks allowed number seems awfully simplistic to me. To determine if he is worthy of the Pro Bowl, Jason Peters has to be compared to the left tackles in the NFC. Using the link that Thurman#1 provided, there are only 3 LTs in the NFC who allowed fewer sacks that Peters (Olando Pace (1) , Sean Locklear (1) and and Chad Clifton(4)). However if you look at the number of hits and pressures combined those player allowed Pace (6 hits 37 pressures), Locklear (8 hits 16 pressures), Clifton (4 hits 18 pressures), then Peters looks very good allowing 2 hits and 9 pressures. That probably explains why he is rated as the best left tackle in the NFC at pass protection and the second best in the NFC overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hey guys, remember that draft where this Brady guy was taken in the 6th round? Damn, we could have taken him in the 5th like I hoped. Oh yeah, how about the draft where Montana was taken in the 3rd? I thought we should have taken him too. I can go back and pick out times we missed out too. Hindsight is 40/10 (if thats even possible). How about we dwell on what we didn't do a little bit more? This is just getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hey guys, remember that draft where this Brady guy was taken in the 6th round? Damn, we could have taken him in the 5th like I hoped. Oh yeah, how about the draft where Montana was taken in the 3rd? I thought we should have taken him too. I can go back and pick out times we missed out too. Hindsight is 40/10 (if thats even possible). How about we dwell on what we didn't do a little bit more? This is just getting old. Most of the players people are talking about in this thread (Ngata, McKinnie and Orakpo) were high first round picks that the Bills had an opportunity to draft. In every case there were people on this board who wanted those players picked and bitched about those players being passed up for the Whitners, Williams, Mabins of the draft. I think they have every right to B word and say 'I told you so' for all the BS they put up with from the front office apologists here. I really haven't seen much discussion about the late rounders you mentioned, where things are more of a crap shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Most of the players people are talking about in this thread (Ngata, McKinnie and Orakpo) were high first round picks that the Bills had an opportunity to draft. In every case there were people on this board who wanted those players picked and bitched about those players being passed up for the Whitners, Williams, Mabins of the draft. I think they have every right to B word and say 'I told you so' for all the BS they put up with from the front office apologists here. I really haven't seen much discussion about the late rounders you mentioned, where things are more of a crap shoot. I was just using an analogy (far fetched I know) to just show my point that we can all look back and say we should have taken this guy. However, what never gets said, is who we all wanted to take that became a bust? People are just trying to look like they know football better than the next guy and have turned alot of this board into a competition. Thats my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I was just using an analogy (far fetched I know) to just show my point that we can all look back and say we should have taken this guy. However, what never gets said, is who we all wanted to take that became a bust? People are just trying to look like they know football better than the next guy and have turned alot of this board into a competition. Thats my point. It is not simply a matter of looking back and saying we should have taken this guy. People on this board expressed their hopes for picking McKinnie, Ngata and Orakpo before they were ever drafted. It is not about saying I'm better than the next person on this board. It is about well deserved criticism of the Bills front office. Who was the last first rounder that actually panned out for the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Ogden was obviously great, but he certainly had his bad games. He was the starting LT for a very bad offense (the 2000 Ravens), a team that gave up 43 sacks despite holding a lead in most of their games. They also gave up 56 in 1999. I don't know how many Ogden was "responsible" (a word I hesitate to even use because people abuse it) for, but given the high number, I'm guessing it was at least some. In fact, the Ravens gave up at least 40 sacks every year except one (2004) between 1998 and 2005. They only gave up 17 in 2006, a season in which Ogden was in decline (he missed a couple of games). People are somehow under the impression that good tackles don't give up sacks. They all do - it's part of the game. That doesn't make Ogden - or Peters, for that matter - overrated. Ogden was outstanding but he too had his moments just like Peters. That is the point that people without perspective miss. They are gaffawed that Peters keeps making the pro bowl, yet don't really watch enough of other teams to know the competition and just assume that all pro should mean perfection. A perfect run and pass blocking LT is not elite, he'd be immortal. Peters has yet to even reach his potential, but he's good in pass protection and the best LT in the run game. The guy is only 26. I don't care if he had a run in with management. As the saying goes, cooler heads prevail. The Bills tried to get in a pissing match with a star player and basically traded him to save face rather than quietly accepting the fact that they overplayed their own hand and getting the issue resolved(young star LT's being paid way below market value have leverage). Fans around here act like it was an irreparable situation, but fallouts like this happen ALL THE TIME. Wasn't Ochocinco doing 10 times as much to get out of Cinci just for the sake of CHANGE(not even money) the past couple years? Now, Cinci is back in the playoffs in part because they didn't cave in and trade him for a draft pick that may or may not even be a contributor. If the Bills treated Bruce Smith like they treated Peters he'd have been a Bronco back in 1989 and who knows what the fallout from losing him would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/tag/_/na...nfc-pro-bowlers But I'm sure the ESPN NFC East blogger is just a biased, disgruntled Bills fan too. Blogging is about entertainment. Fact free opinions are often more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 How should a pro bowler be measured? Simply by number of sacks? Should it be a combination of sacks, QB hits and QB pressures? Should performance on running plays be included? Using a number of sacks allowed number seems awfully simplistic to me. To determine if he is worthy of the Pro Bowl, Jason Peters has to be compared to the left tackles in the NFC. Using the link that Thurman#1 provided, there are only 3 LTs in the NFC who allowed fewer sacks that Peters (Olando Pace (1) , Sean Locklear (1) and and Chad Clifton(4)). However if you look at the number of hits and pressures combined those player allowed Pace (6 hits 37 pressures), Locklear (8 hits 16 pressures), Clifton (4 hits 18 pressures), then Peters looks very good allowing 2 hits and 9 pressures. That probably explains why he is rated as the best left tackle in the NFC at pass protection and the second best in the NFC overall. Thanks, Scraps. You're missed around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Ogden was outstanding but he too had his moments just like Peters. That is the point that people without perspective miss. They are gaffawed that Peters keeps making the pro bowl, yet don't really watch enough of other teams to know the competition and just assume that all pro should mean perfection. A perfect run and pass blocking LT is not elite, he'd be immortal. Peters has yet to even reach his potential, but he's good in pass protection and the best LT in the run game. The guy is only 26. I don't care if he had a run in with management. As the saying goes, cooler heads prevail. The Bills tried to get in a pissing match with a star player and basically traded him to save face rather than quietly accepting the fact that they overplayed their own hand and getting the issue resolved(young star LT's being paid way below market value have leverage). Fans around here act like it was an irreparable situation, but fallouts like this happen ALL THE TIME. Wasn't Ochocinco doing 10 times as much to get out of Cinci just for the sake of CHANGE(not even money) the past couple years? Now, Cinci is back in the playoffs in part because they didn't cave in and trade him for a draft pick that may or may not even be a contributor. If the Bills treated Bruce Smith like they treated Peters he'd have been a Bronco back in 1989 and who knows what the fallout from losing him would have been. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1448171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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