Guest dog14787 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 So you're going to dodge the question again? Good deal. I'll move right on. I didn't dodge anything and you have never proved anything. You wanted a link with a player letting you know loud and clear, we have O-line problems. I suppose you know more than TO and our HC now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Excellently worded. When he came in I thought: "This is it Trent, this is your chance to prove to people that you aren't a fragile, scared QB that is afraid to throw the ball, your last chance to be the QB of this team." 3 snaps, 2 sacks and Captain Glass Checkdown is out of the game. The Trent Edwards Era is OVER. The irony is he'll probably be in the UFL next year like JP. Er...um....in case you been sleeping under a log or something, JP Losman plays for the Oakland Raiders... Link - Oakland Raiders sign quarterback J.P. Losman Former New York Giants coach Jim Fassel believes that J.P. Losman could be successful with the Oakland Raiders if he's given the opportunity to play... Fassel is coach of the newly-crowned UFL champion Las Vegas Locomotives, with whom Losman was the starting quarterback this fall. The veteran coach believes that the strong-armed quarterback has what it takes to return to form in the NFL. "J.P. is a solid guy and talented quarterback," Fassel told FanHouse in a phone interview Wednesday night. "He is certainly battle-tested. Most of all, though, I'm very impressed with his work ethic, desire to be good and really work at his trade and be better." Fassel also admitted that three teams were ready to sign Losman if the Raiders did not but declined to specify which ones. Link - Fassel: Losman Can Thrive With Raiders Meanwhile, it used to be that Fanning Fan Edwards couldn't finish a season w/out injury (he's played only one complete season since high school) - NOW the candyass can't even finish a series without an owie! Good luck in your next career, Trent, whatever it is you chose to do after your brief and awful impersonation of a pro quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I didn't dodge anything and you have never proved anything. You wanted a link with a player letting you know loud and clear, we have O-line problems. I suppose you know more than TO and our HC now. dog, I know that you can read, so try following the conversation: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1676178 I've never, ever denied that the team has O-line problems. All I've said, over and over and over (and over), is that a good QB can overcome them and lead a playoff-caliber offense. You've repeatedly denied it, and I've gone on to repeatedly prove it by referencing several teams in this very NFL season that have good QBs overcoming lousy offensive line play (Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Green Bay, Dallas, Philadelphia). You continue to ignore it, for reasons that remain unclear to me. So I continue to ask you the questions in the post to which I linked. If you want to end this ongoing debate between us, all you have to do is explain to me: (1) why you refuse to acknowledge that a good QB can overcome a bad OL, (2) why you claim that no QB can succeed behind a bad line, when it is absolutely not true, and (3) why you continuously dodge these same questions over and over whenever I pose them to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Er...um....in case you been sleeping under a log or something, JP Losman plays for the Oakland Raiders... Link - Oakland Raiders sign quarterback J.P. Losman Former New York Giants coach Jim Fassel believes that J.P. Losman could be successful with the Oakland Raiders if he's given the opportunity to play... Fassel is coach of the newly-crowned UFL champion Las Vegas Locomotives, with whom Losman was the starting quarterback this fall. The veteran coach believes that the strong-armed quarterback has what it takes to return to form in the NFL. "J.P. is a solid guy and talented quarterback," Fassel told FanHouse in a phone interview Wednesday night. "He is certainly battle-tested. Most of all, though, I'm very impressed with his work ethic, desire to be good and really work at his trade and be better." Fassel also admitted that three teams were ready to sign Losman if the Raiders did not but declined to specify which ones. Link - Fassel: Losman Can Thrive With Raiders Meanwhile, it used to be that Fanning Fan Edwards couldn't finish a season w/out injury (he's played only one complete season since high school) - NOW the candyass can't even finish a series without an owie! Good luck in your next career, Trent, whatever it is you chose to do after your brief and awful impersonation of a pro quarterback. and our boy Graham Harrell couldn't even start a season without one, but hey, that's Pro football for you, especially when you play behind the worse O-line in the League like Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Some players out there are mean spirited and play with bad intentions, just ask Incognito... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 dog, I know that you can read, so try following the conversation: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1676178 I've never, ever denied that the team has O-line problems. All I've said, over and over and over (and over), is that a good QB can overcome them and lead a playoff-caliber offense. You've repeatedly denied it, and I've gone on to repeatedly prove it by referencing several teams in this very NFL season that have good QBs overcoming lousy offensive line play (Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Green Bay, Dallas, Philadelphia). You continue to ignore it, for reasons that remain unclear to me. So I continue to ask you the questions in the post to which I linked. If you want to end this ongoing debate between us, all you have to do is explain to me: (1) why you refuse to acknowledge that a good QB can overcome a bad OL, (2) why you claim that no QB can succeed behind a bad line, when it is absolutely not true, and (3) why you continuously dodge these same questions over and over whenever I pose them to you? Big Ben is not your typical pocket QB, you pull up an exception to the rule and expect me to buy into it when 90% of the QB's in this league need protection and the other 10% that get by without good protection could be invincible with good protection. I've never dodged the question and your argument is irrelevant to 90% of the teams in the league including ours. How many times do I have to explain that to you before it sinks in, good grief man, get over it. We have serious O-line problems here in Buffalo and NO, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Edwards, even Tom Brady could not play well behind our friggin O-line so give it up because you will never in a million years prove differently by me. Big Ben is a freak of nature, good God By the way, your list of teams with a bad O-line is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Big Ben is not your typical pocket QB, you pull up an exception to the rule and expect me to buy into it when 90% of the QB's in this league need protection and the other 10% that get by without good protection could be invincible with good protection. I've never dodged the question and your argument is irrelevant to 90% of the teams in the league including ours. How many times do I have to explain that to you before it sinks in, good grief man, get over it. We have serious O-line problems here in Buffalo and NO, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Edwards, even Tom Brady could not play well behind our friggin O-line so give it up because you will never in a million years prove differently by me. Big Ben is a freak of nature, good God By the way, your list of teams with a bad O-line is a joke. I get it now. I finally understand. Holy crap dog, you just don't get it, do you? Forget Roethlisberger, since you think he's this untouchable exception. Look no further than Romo, McNabb, and Rogers for 3 perfect examples. If you can look at the sack stats... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?sea...mp;d-447263-n=1 and the rushing stats... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1 and honestly say that my list is a joke, then you are incapable of looking at this subject objectively. You've got 3 QBs that get sacked more than 2/3 of the league, and 2 of those QBs have running games that are below average (Dallas is the exception). You see, there are other teams in the NFL with bad offensive lines. So bad, in fact, that they allow more sacks, and have poorer running games, than ours. This is not a debatable fact, as bad as you may want it to be. However, despite those equally bad/worse offensive lines, they have much, much, much, much better offenses. So your argument that no QB can be successful behind our line is a total and complete lie. Total and complete. If a QB (like Rogers, Roethlisberger, Romo, etc.) can be successful for a team with an equally bad/worse offensive line than Buffalo's, then a QB can be successful behind Buffalo's line. This is simple logic, and for someone that works for an engineering firm, which you've claimed on multiple occasions to do, logic should be second-nature to you. But if you want to stick your fingers in your ears and yell "la la la la la la" or tell me that every QB that gets sacked more than Edwards/Fitzpatrick is simply "a freak of nature" in order to preserve your argument, go for it. I, for one, can no longer stand reading this farce of an argument from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I get it now. I finally understand. Holy crap dog, you just don't get it, do you? Forget Roethlisberger, since you think he's this untouchable exception. Look no further than Romo, McNabb, and Rogers for 3 perfect examples. If you can look at the sack stats... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?sea...mp;d-447263-n=1 and the rushing stats... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1 and honestly say that my list is a joke, then you are incapable of looking at this subject objectively. You've got 3 QBs that get sacked more than 2/3 of the league, and 2 of those QBs have running games that are below average (Dallas is the exception). You see, there are other teams in the NFL with bad offensive lines. So bad, in fact, that they allow more sacks, and have poorer running games, than ours. This is not a debatable fact, as bad as you may want it to be. However, despite those equally bad/worse offensive lines, they have much, much, much, much better offenses. So your argument that no QB can be successful behind our line is a total and complete lie. Total and complete. If a QB (like Rogers, Roethlisberger, Romo, etc.) can be successful for a team with an equally bad/worse offensive line than Buffalo's, then a QB can be successful behind Buffalo's line. This is simple logic, and for someone that works for an engineering firm, which you've claimed on multiple occasions to do, logic should be second-nature to you. But if you want to stick your fingers in your ears and yell "la la la la la la" or tell me that every QB that gets sacked more than Edwards/Fitzpatrick is simply "a freak of nature" in order to preserve your argument, go for it. I, for one, can no longer stand reading this farce of an argument from you. You are really dense buddy and I told you when we argued about this before, we have a difference of opinion and I could care less what you think. So you go on now and keep telling yourself you don't need a good O-line to succeed in this league and I'll keep laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grelit Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Tired of the excuses for this bum. He was unable to succeed with one of the best left tackles in the league on his team. One of the worst QBs we have ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrojanitor Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 You are really dense buddy and I told you when we argued about this before, we have a difference of opinion and I could care less what you think. So you go on now and keep telling yourself you don't need a good O-line to succeed in this league and I'll keep laughing. Those stats prove you can not put the blame 100% on the O Line. O line is bad, yes. But other playoff bound, and contending, teams have equally bad O lines. You get a competent QB in there and it does not matter as much. Unfortunately Trent is a loser who can not get anything going and Fitz is terrible at best. Leads us to a 5-11 season. A cat like Ben throws 503 yards with a horrible O line and no run game. Trent threw something like -2 Fitz was 120 or something. A Buffalo QB has not cracked 300 yds in years. It would be nice if they had a couple more seconds, but this is a sign of bad QBs as much as bad O line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Those stats prove you can not put the blame 100% on the O Line. O line is bad, yes. But other playoff bound, and contending, teams have equally bad O lines. You get a competent QB in there and it does not matter as much. Unfortunately Trent is a loser who can not get anything going and Fitz is terrible at best. Leads us to a 5-11 season. A cat like Ben throws 503 yards with a horrible O line and no run game. Trent threw something like -2 Fitz was 120 or something. A Buffalo QB has not cracked 300 yds in years. It would be nice if they had a couple more seconds, but this is a sign of bad QBs as much as bad O line. 48 straight games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Those stats prove you can not put the blame 100% on the O Line. O line is bad, yes. But other playoff bound, and contending, teams have equally bad O lines. You get a competent QB in there and it does not matter as much. Unfortunately Trent is a loser who can not get anything going and Fitz is terrible at best. Leads us to a 5-11 season. A cat like Ben throws 503 yards with a horrible O line and no run game. Trent threw something like -2 Fitz was 120 or something. A Buffalo QB has not cracked 300 yds in years. It would be nice if they had a couple more seconds, but this is a sign of bad QBs as much as bad O line. Please let me save you the time. He doesn't care about the stats, numbers, facts, comparisons, or any of the relevant information. His response is going to be: Anyone that knows football knows it all starts up front. What you said is wrong. Such is life when you debate with Dog. He's a good guy at heart; I mean it, he really is...but he's busting at the seams with excuses for the QBs. It doesn't matter what other teams with bad o-lines (and bad running games for that matter) can accomplish, all that matters is that nobody could play behind this one (except for the guys that could, like Rogers, Romo, Roethlisberger, McNabb,...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 i think trent looked good when nobody knew what he was about. bills fans have been waiting for so long to stake their claim to a new franchise qb, that we all bought in to what he had going in one way or another. he has since been figured out by the league and has shown he sucks. trent, jp and billie joe hobert all got what they deserved. back to the drawing board......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 We have seen Losman, Bledsoe, Collins, Johnson and Flutie leave this team in the past decade. I felt all of these QBs had seen their course with the team and we had seen enough. In summary we knew what they were capable of and it was time to move on. I dont feel the same about Edwards. He is better than his production and has been dragged down because of the support system around him. If he leaves the Bills next year there is very little doubt that he will flourish elsewhere. I dont think he is a Pro Bowler but he is better than 1/2 of the QBs in this league. There are many playoff teams that are making it happen with less talented QB's than Edwards. Today's game frames the situation. He sits for four weeks behind a journeyman at best....and gets sacked twice because of a turnstile O-line. If this front office had done NOTHING with last years o-line Edwards would have had a chance to springboard this year. Edwards deserves far better than this BS. I say the same about the other QB's you mentioned and I include Kelly's last couple years in that list. JP Losman looked at one time like a QB capable of leading fourth quarter comebacks, having done it numerous times. Then he took way too many hits and was done. I feel that Rob Johnson came here as a very talented but flawed quarterback, but horribly regressed. Add to that, the list of offensive coordinators that failed here, but went on to great success elsewhere- Bruce Arians, Kevin Gilbride and Dan Henning all come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 First of all the last thing I am concerned about is my credibility with posters on this board. I don't have any love for Trent Edwards, I believe he is a above average QB in this league that will flourish under better circumstances. TO has no option but to keep his mouth shut. His production is horrible and he is over the hill. There wasnt a huge market for him last year... if he implodes publicly as a Buffalo Bill it would kill him this spring. He is smart enough to keep waiting until he has the next contract secured and then you will see throw our entire organization and many teamates under the bus.... some deserve it some dont. The problem with TO this year is that his presence limited the development of Hardy and Johnson and he took reps away from our best WR Lee Evans. Can I quote you on this? Because this is in direct contradiction of what a lot of people (fans, front office, coaching staff, Trent(?)) were saying last year. Last year, those same people were saying the reason Edwards was NOT throwing the ball down field was due to the fact opposing teams could just double Evans, forcing TE to checkdown. Bringing TO on was supposed to OPEN UP the passing game, and thus revealing to us mere mortals, the true greatness of Trent Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Can I quote you on this? Because this is in direct contradiction of what a lot of people (fans, front office, coaching staff, Trent(?)) were saying last year. Last year, those same people were saying the reason Edwards was NOT throwing the ball down field was due to the fact opposing teams could just double Evans, forcing TE to checkdown. Bringing TO on was supposed to OPEN UP the passing game, and thus revealing to us mere mortals, the true greatness of Trent Edwards. We would have been a better team if the money given to Owens went to someone else that we already had......cough cough Trent was a good young QB, if he can get back to that is anyone's guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 i think trent looked good when nobody knew what he was about. bills fans have been waiting for so long to stake their claim to a new franchise qb, that we all bought in to what he had going in one way or another. he has since been figured out by the league and has shown he sucks. trent, jp and billie joe hobert all got what they deserved. back to the drawing board......... This sums it up completely. Every single one of the bums we've had over the years, looked really promising early. The fans will fall in love with the next bum as well. .... unless of course the unthinkable happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 We would have been a better team if the money given to Owens went to someone else that we already had......cough cough Trent was a good young QB, if he can get back to that is anyone's guess Good point, our offense was a real force last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 For every one of you folks that doesn't think the O-line matters very much in the NFL there's a thousand folks that think differently and its just the same old folks here on TSW, same old story over and over again bashing TE, but you are a minority regardless if you like it or not.(talking about the O-line, not TE) Losing faith in TE I can understand, but throwing all logic out the window because you hate a Bills player so much, that I cannot understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 For every one of you folks that doesn't think the O-line matters very much in the NFL there's a thousand folks that think differently and its just the same old folks here on TSW, same old story over and over again bashing TE, but you are a minority regardless if you like it or not.(talking about the O-line, not TE) Losing faith in TE I can understand, but throwing all logic out the window because you hate a Bills player so much, that I cannot understand. The OL very much matters, however, an above average QB can still succeed behind a bad OL. A pro bowl type of QB will put up the type of numbers that Aaron Rodgers & Big Ben consistently put up (without the benefit of an average OL). Unfortunately, we have neither an above average QB, or even an average QB. For all of you who go out of your way to defend TE, please stop insinuating that anyone who doesn't believe that he's even an average QB, personally has hate for him. It is a simple fact proven over and over: TE just doesn't have what it takes to be a successful starter in the NFL. Come to grips with this reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The OL very much matters, however, an above average QB can still succeed behind a bad OL. A pro bowl type of QB will put up the type of numbers that Aaron Rodgers & Big Ben consistently put up (without the benefit of an average OL). Unfortunately, we have neither an above average QB, or even an average QB. For all of you who go out of your way to defend TE, please stop insinuating that anyone who doesn't believe that he's even an average QB, personally has hate for him. It is a simple fact proven over and over: TE just doesn't have what it takes to be a successful starter in the NFL. Come to grips with this reality... The reality is my reality happens to be different then yours and I will continue to defend TE just as I'm sure the bashers will continue to bash him. I don't mean to lump everyone into one category, its just hard to distinguish between the two when our O-line problems have been painfully obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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