billsfan89 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thats why we will go with M. Vick, not a noddle arm with what you call"Limitations" . Yeah its not like Vick has no limitations even when healthy Vick was never an accurate passer. Now you give a athletic QB with accuracy issues who is 3 years older and had 2 years of no football what so ever and his one year back he hasn't played all that much. Give me a accurate passer who has won this division played in 7 playoff games with a pair of victories and a guy who is going to be a great leader and mentor. Yes he has injury issues and yes he has arm strength issues BUT the guy's positives far out weigh the negatives. I know a lot of you see it this way Chad Pennington = Trent Edwards BUT the key difference is that Pennington is able to work the 15-25 yard range very well and while he isn't a play maker he does do a good job of putting his play makers in a position to make plays (Which is something a QB in Buffalo hasn't been able to do in a long time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 ^^^^^^^This !! Taking the best player availale is drafting 101. Drafting for need is dumb and will cause losing and getting the GM fired. Mike Holmgren was GM of Seattle and in his 3 #1 picks, he picked some guy I never heard of and Koren Robinson and Jeremy Stevens to fill need. See where that got him. Got him fired as GM and rightfully so. I also agree that if we take a QB at #1 and put him the starting lineup odds are like 80-20 he's gonna suck and we're gonna suck. I say we hit the FA market heavy on need like both lines and QB. Maybe an LB too if we can get a good one. Need plays a factor in drafting a secondary factor but a factor you don't want to take the best guy available if you are already stacked at that position for example you don't want to draft too many DB's even if the best guys are DB's. The way I look at drafting is you assign yourself 3-5 needs you can fill in the 1st round and pick the best player available from those positions. The way I look at it is Buffalo has 3 major needs going into the 1st round QB, LT, and DT. Then going into the second round they have other needs like OLB, DT, Guard or RT (If they don't think Wood will be back or Butler is effective) and WR. To me you isolate your big needs round one and you take the best guy that fills one of your needs. Hit free agency for front 7 depth (Vonnie Holiday, Jason Ferguson, Derrick Johnson, and a vet OLB along with resigning draft) and grab Chad Pennington as the temporary QB. Hit up the draft for a LT and a DT in rounds one and 2. Grab a guard in round 3 as insurance for Wood and depth as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Need plays a factor in drafting a secondary factor but a factor you don't want to take the best guy available if you are already stacked at that position for example you don't want to draft too many DB's even if the best guys are DB's. The way I look at drafting is you assign yourself 3-5 needs you can fill in the 1st round and pick the best player available from those positions. The way I look at it is Buffalo has 3 major needs going into the 1st round QB, LT, and DT. Then going into the second round they have other needs like OLB, DT, Guard or RT (If they don't think Wood will be back or Butler is effective) and WR. To me you isolate your big needs round one and you take the best guy that fills one of your needs. Hit free agency for front 7 depth (Vonnie Holiday, Jason Ferguson, Derrick Johnson, and a vet OLB along with resigning draft) and grab Chad Pennington as the temporary QB. Hit up the draft for a LT and a DT in rounds one and 2. Grab a guard in round 3 as insurance for Wood and depth as well. While I agree that a difference making DT is a need, I would not put it at the top of the list like you. We have A beast in Stroud and a competent player in Williams. We are terribly thin at LB. Poz is average at best. Mitchell, when healthy is also average to slightly above. Beyond that we have nobody. WE DESPERATELY NEED A STARTER OR 2 (MAYBE 3) AT LB. Besides a franchise QB, I would say at LB is our #1 priority for the draft. I think OT will be addressed in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 While I agree that a difference making DT is a need, I would not put it at the top of the list like you. We have A beast in Stroud and a competent player in Williams. We are terribly thin at LB. Poz is average at best. Mitchell, when healthy is also average to slightly above. Beyond that we have nobody. WE DESPERATELY NEED A STARTER OR 2 (MAYBE 3) AT LB. Besides a franchise QB, I would say at LB is our #1 priority for the draft. I think OT will be addressed in free agency. I think that if you can get Derrick Johnson at OLB and resign Draft and get another vet OLB to add depth we will be OK at Linebacker. I think that linebackers are a product of the D-lines they play in front of to a certain extent. While I like Stroud and Williams they get worn down late in games and in the NFL you need 4 quality interior D-lineman in a 4-3 to have an effective rotation. Sign Jason Ferguson or Vonnie Holiday (Preferably Ferguson) and add a DT in round 2 and then you have a pretty good 4 man rotation at DT. As far as OT in free agency most LT's (Good ones anyway) don't reach free agency and as far as RT go the ones available won't be that much better then Butler (Who comes at a cheaper price). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I think that Pennington's days as a starting QB are over with his second serious shoulder injury. He'd be a solid back-up guy to have around though. he isn't even sure if he will be able to play again after the last injury, so why not bring him in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yeah its not like Vick has no limitations even when healthy Vick was never an accurate passer. Now you give a athletic QB with accuracy issues who is 3 years older and had 2 years of no football what so ever and his one year back he hasn't played all that much. Give me a accurate passer who has won this division played in 7 playoff games with a pair of victories and a guy who is going to be a great leader and mentor. Yes he has injury issues and yes he has arm strength issues BUT the guy's positives far out weigh the negatives. I know a lot of you see it this way Chad Pennington = Trent Edwards BUT the key difference is that Pennington is able to work the 15-25 yard range very well and while he isn't a play maker he does do a good job of putting his play makers in a position to make plays (Which is something a QB in Buffalo hasn't been able to do in a long time). Pennington positives cant get the Ball to a receiver on a 15 yrd out, he is tooooo easyyyyy to defend. Did you forget that our Line is terrible...Give me a Passer That Defenses are scared of. Vick went into GREENBAY AND WON A DIVISION championship.Fact is Penny arm is not worth a penny right now plus he had how many operations on a throwing shoulder that he already cant throw far with?.............really so you will take that ? You can have it on your team ...............Vick will be on the Bills so brace yourself because there is nothing better on the FA market . We will continue to build both Lines through the Draft we just dont have the talent now. So get ready I will get my Buffalo Bills Vick jersey next season I cant wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Vick will be on the Bills so brace yourself because there is nothing better on the FA market . We will continue to build both Lines through the Draft we just dont have the talent now. So get ready I will get my Buffalo Bills Vick jersey next season I cant wait Gosh I hope not. The FAs I think we should go after QB wise are Kyle Orton, Tavarius Jackson, Charlie Batch, or Duante Culpepper. They can hold it down while we find someone real after we get our lines tightened up. Let whichever we get (unless Orton because he's clearly better) battle it out with Brohm, Trent, and Fitz. Top 3 stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Pennington positives cant get the Ball to a receiver on a 15 yrd out, he is tooooo easyyyyy to defend. Did you forget that our Line is terrible...Give me a Passer That Defenses are scared of. Vick went into GREENBAY AND WON A DIVISION championship.Fact is Penny arm is not worth a penny right now plus he had how many operations on a throwing shoulder that he already cant throw far with?.............really so you will take that ? You can have it on your team ...............Vick will be on the Bills so brace yourself because there is nothing better on the FA market . We will continue to build both Lines through the Draft we just dont have the talent now. So get ready I will get my Buffalo Bills Vick jersey next season I cant wait Defenses aren't afraid of Vick throwing the Ball. Teams don't fear guys who are inaccurate and careless with the ball. The Vick won that game against Green Bay was what 7 years ago. Vick next year will be an athletic QB whose skills will be eroding thanks to his age (Past the 30 years old mark) and he has had a big two year absence in his career AND in his come back tour he hasn't played any serious snaps. So rather then take a guy with 5 playoff appearances, a guy who has played in cold weather, won this division multiple times, and is an accurate passer you want a guy with accuracy issues, a guy who hasn't had meaningful playing time in over three seasons, a guy who hasn't had a whole lot of experience in cold weather, and a guy who best skill set (His legs) are only prone to decline due to his age. Give me the savvy professional in Chad Pennington. Yes there are the injuries BUT he has been discounted more then once in his career and knows how to battle back from injuries. Yeah he struggles to get the ball out quick past the 25 yard mark BUT he does win when healthy and can put guys in positions to make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Tom Brady and Chad Pennington are the last two QB's to win the AFC east since 2001. Now we all know that Trent is not the answer and Fitz is no more then a good backup. Brohm is a project and won't start next season or maybe not the year after if ever. Now even if we go QB round 1 (I think LT is the better pick philosophically but its all Dependant on the guys actually available) Pennington is a great guy to have a young guy sit and learn for a year from him. Derrick Johnson is a guy on the outs in KC because he isn't a fit for the scheme. Now if we maintain a 4-3 he is a good fit for that scheme and due to his dropped value could be had at a very reasonable price (Around the same deal we gave Mitchell) and help out this much hindered run D. Both could be had both fit a need and could be had. Draft a LT in round 1, Draft a DT in round 2, and sign Pennington and Derrick Johnson and this team fills 4 needs going into next season. Seems like a plan? Pennington.....oh boy--if the guy didnt have that cream puff arm...too bad...he has a probowl brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 derrick johnson, ryan pickett, draft mclain in the first and tackle in the second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Chad Pennington 102 TDs 64 Ints and 90.1 career ranking. And he's only 33. Maybe got a couple of years left. If our doctors give him a thorough look over and deem him fit to play, I sign him in 1/2 a heartbeat. He's a pro who can play now. No 2 or 3 years development needed. I'm tired of baby sitting snot nose rookie QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodak Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Chad Pennington Jeff Garicia. And yes we could get DJ for 3-4 mil a season - great addition. no get mcnabb he'll be free after this year and will play for 4 or 5 more years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBuff Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yeah Pennington may be shot but what do we have? Fitz......oh god Edwards..............jelly head with a dead arm. Dont even mention the 3rd string clunker. Bring in Pennington then hope the new regime knows how to draft. Penny could mentor like he did for Henne. Speaking of Henne, why couldnt this team pick a guy like him or Sanchez? Freakin idiots. Brady Henne Sanchez FITZ ...............................just kill me now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 He could wear a cup. Or atleast some tighty whiteys. JERRY Don't you see what's goin' on here??? .. No boxers, no Jockeys.. ELAINE Eeaawww... JERRY The only thing between him and us is a thin layer of gabardine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Tom Brady and Chad Pennington are the last two QB's to win the AFC east since 2001. Now we all know that Trent is not the answer and Fitz is no more then a good backup. Brohm is a project and won't start next season or maybe not the year after if ever. Now even if we go QB round 1 (I think LT is the better pick philosophically but its all Dependant on the guys actually available) Pennington is a great guy to have a young guy sit and learn for a year from him. Derrick Johnson is a guy on the outs in KC because he isn't a fit for the scheme. Now if we maintain a 4-3 he is a good fit for that scheme and due to his dropped value could be had at a very reasonable price (Around the same deal we gave Mitchell) and help out this much hindered run D. Both could be had both fit a need and could be had. Draft a LT in round 1, Draft a DT in round 2, and sign Pennington and Derrick Johnson and this team fills 4 needs going into next season. Seems like a plan? I did not know about Derrick Johnson but I have been on the "pick up Chad Pennington" bandwagon for most of this season. I do not think he can be starter for a full 16 games nor do I want him to be. We draft a young QB in round 2 after getting our starting LT in round 1 and the rookie can play and learn behind Pennington a leader, winner and very accurate QB until ready to take over or until forced to take over do to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 no get mcnabb he'll be free after this year and will play for 4 or 5 more years LINK? I dont think McNabb is going to be a FA after this year. I do however think Kolb is and he would be a good fit for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Defenses aren't afraid of Vick throwing the Ball. Teams don't fear guys who are inaccurate and careless with the ball. The Vick won that game against Green Bay was what 7 years ago. Vick next year will be an athletic QB whose skills will be eroding thanks to his age (Past the 30 years old mark) and he has had a big two year absence in his career AND in his come back tour he hasn't played any serious snaps. So rather then take a guy with 5 playoff appearances, a guy who has played in cold weather, won this division multiple times, and is an accurate passer you want a guy with accuracy issues, a guy who hasn't had meaningful playing time in over three seasons, a guy who hasn't had a whole lot of experience in cold weather, and a guy who best skill set (His legs) are only prone to decline due to his age. Give me the savvy professional in Chad Pennington. Yes there are the injuries BUT he has been discounted more then once in his career and knows how to battle back from injuries. Yeah he struggles to get the ball out quick past the 25 yard mark BUT he does win when healthy and can put guys in positions to make plays. Thats funny because the Jets Head Coach is still afraid of Vick. The five playoff appearances you are talking about is Vick correct .Who has a arm that can throw and win playoff games on the road(Green Bay) in this weather .Did you forget our Line ? I hope not . We know Bledsoe was better than Penny and our line couldnt protect Bledsoe and it will not protect Penny. Vick is younger than Penny(you did know that?) so when you say decline in age with three throwing arm injuries who are you referring to IT MUST BE PENNY AGAIN. people I know that some people will never accept Vick.But face facts there is not a QB in FA that present DEFENSES WITH A PERSON THEY HAVE TO GAME PLAN FOR ..................SORRY VICK WILL COME TO BUFFALO because he is the best FA QB available.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 SORRY VICK WILL COME TO BUFFALO because he is the best FA QB available.... Actually he is not a FA. He signed a 2 year deal with the Eagles. Unless they cut him of course. Here's my list of FA QBs I'd take in order: Kyle Orton, Chad Pennington (if healthy), Tavaris Jackson, Jeff Garcia, Duante Culpepper, Charlie Batch. Except for Kyle, all stopgaps, but I'm OK with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thats funny because the Jets Head Coach is still afraid of Vick. The five playoff appearances you are talking about is Vick correct .Who has a arm that can throw and win playoff games on the road(Green Bay) in this weather .Did you forget our Line ? I hope not . We know Bledsoe was better than Penny and our line couldnt protect Bledsoe and it will not protect Penny. Vick is younger than Penny(you did know that?) so when you say decline in age with three throwing arm injuries who are you referring to IT MUST BE PENNY AGAIN. people I know that some people will never accept Vick.But face facts there is not a QB in FA that present DEFENSES WITH A PERSON THEY HAVE TO GAME PLAN FOR ..................SORRY VICK WILL COME TO BUFFALO because he is the best FA QB available.... 5 playoff appearances was Pennington Vick had 2 or 3. And you continue to ignore Vicks accuracy issues and the fact that he hasn't started FOR 4 years. Also Vick has Started only in Atlanta a dome and in a hot weather division. Pennington is 33 But his skill set is not as prone to decline at that age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Actually he is not a FA. He signed a 2 year deal with the Eagles. Unless they cut him of course. Here's my list of FA QBs I'd take in order: Kyle Orton, Chad Pennington (if healthy), Tavaris Jackson, Jeff Garcia, Duante Culpepper, Charlie Batch. Except for Kyle, all stopgaps, but I'm OK with that. Pass on Jackson, Garcia is going to be 40, Culpepper is a backup, so is Batch, and Orton won't hit the market. Pennington (if healthy) is our best option on the free agency market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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