UConn James Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 - On 815, Jack has noticeably longer hair than in the original pilot ep. In a show as meticulous as this wrt appearance, this can't be accidental. - 815 still shakes before the pilot says it was "rough air." Was it just turbulence? Island is now ~20 ft. underwater in this Alt World. I don't get how that could happen. - Des on 815. Holy crap! I'm thinking his appearance may be similar to how Eloise Hawking showed up to him in 1996. Or how Ethan walked past Juliet in "Not in Portland." Something weird to it... My thoughts at the time were that it creates a constant to prevent the aneurysm effects. - "I'm sorry you had to see me like that." If there was any doubt left that Flocke = Smoke monster = MIB, that doubt was removed. - Why does Jack linger on 815? It's almost like he and the other Losties sense something, but they don't remember... at least not yet. It'd be disappointing if all the histrionics of the past 5 seasons are gone. But, as it's happening, these peoples' lives are interconnected. There's nothing they can do to change their paths crossing. I guess we'll just see if they can "change the equation" now that they have a second chance. - If they're "back" in 2007(?) why did Richard tell Sun last season that he 'saw them all die' in 1977? - How did Juliet know that the bomb worked before she died... right after she said that it didn't work? "Fickle B word" even in death? ... Or was that sentence she said about "Let's get a cup of coffee sometime. We'll go Dutch" a bit of 'course correction'/temporal shift talk? e.g. how Charlotte said she "couldn't have chocolate before dinner" during the flashes, and then we later saw young Charlotte say that line to Daniel. (Her mind had to catch up with what was changed in the timeline). - MIB - "I want to go home." Where is home? Maybe more importantly, when is home? He kicks Richard's ass, and from the comment, it appears that Richard was on the "Black Rock" in some capacity or other. - I think it's fairly obvious, but Sayid = Jacob. We've finally seen some of the interior Temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udonkey Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Nope I think it's Jacob. Has to be - unless the other guy can be 2 places at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Has to be - unless the other guy can be 2 places at once. To some degree, he may be. From Flocke's talk with Ben about Locke's life and his "I don't understand" thought as he died, it's like he was lurking inside of Locke from the beginning. Add in his "Do you have any idea what I've been through to be here?" and I suspect that at least a part of the smoke monster/MIB has inhabited Locke since his birth. It's not like it took over Locke completely. Iit was like... a virus. But it did seem to influence Locke's enjoyment of games, history, hunting, and his anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Disappointing premiere, if you ask me. Poorly written and poorly acted, compared to the standards we're accustomed to. I don't know what you were watching- that was the strongest premiere the series has ever had, including the pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 OK- so wtf is up with these 2 timelines? What's real and what's not? Obviously, something is up with the airplane/LAX timeline, as not only is Jack's hair much longer, as UConn noted, but Desmond on the plane (and then not?), Shannon not on it, and Jack looking like he knows something's off.... just what the hell is going on?! I knew that Carlton and Damon said they had a new narrative going this season, but this is mindblowing right now- just can't figure out what is happening, especially with the island underwater in the LA timeline. These writers know how to drag you in and make you want more and more. Great to finally see the temple and those who were taken from the tail section, and great to see some of the old crew back [boone, Charlie, and Claire]. And I hope this is the end of Juliet once and for all- the worst character on Lost, IMO. Sayid's gotta be Jacob. Also, why didn't the Jacob bodyguard crew just ice Fake-Locke when he came out of the statue, or at least when he laid the beat down on Alpert? It's great to see Ben in this new role of total pawn, totally confused and clueless- it's so unlike him and it's about time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 where to even begin?!?! first off, another great premier. if there is one thing they do well in this series its their premiers and finales. ...i guess that's two things technically. ha! ok, the bomb "worked"! I think what we will end up seeing is that Juliet had a Desmond-like experience when she detonated the bomb. What was an instant flash for the rest of the group, might have been a much longer journey for Juliet, until she woke up under the hatch. It's quite possible that during this journey, she either witnesses the other time line, or Mrs Hawking tells her that it worked. now how they are going to explain the alternate time-line, i have no idea. whether it's going to be an alternate universe thing. or a case where the LOSTies are now stuck on the island forever because there are "other" versions of them living in real life. i dont know. wrt MiB knowing Locke's last thoughts. We know that Smokey reads people minds. I'm fairly certain that he can read people's memories even if they are dead. so my guess is that he got to Locke's body in the cargo hull and extracted his most recent memories. it's just my opinion, but i doubt that he was "in" Locke anytime before the return to the island. Locke was simply a manipulated pawn who had his faith played, i dont think he was a "costume" for MiB until the return. lots more to talk about, but my boss is currently watching me type this so i need to wrap it up! back later to discuss more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 To me the "it worked" comment likely a comment of preventing 815 from crashing. Yet the questions lingers why don't the 2007 Lostaways acknowledge this. Yet the stewardess from 815 at the Temple mentioned that Jack et all were from the "first" flight" not sure if this means anything more then they weren't part of the new crew from 316 or not but it's a line that stuck with me. Another line that stuck with me was Charlie commenting that he was supposed to die. Agreed that Smokey is reading people's thoughts after their dead as think is "it's" way of convincing other people that it's human. As starting to believe that Smokey is the devil and Jacob is God/Jesus or whatever you want to call your "Good deity" whereas Smokey is obviously the bad. White vs Black etc. As also remember comments about stuck on a rock could mean the island but think more of a comment about earth itself. Smokey's home ultimately might be hell. Smokey's commenting about seeing Richard in chains opens up that we could see the Richard back story episode, that I for one and sure many others crave. Locke's discussion with Jack at the end was touching and opens up the idea that perhaps Jack can fix Locke. Yet again questions remain about the purpose of the island etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 To me the "it worked" comment likely a comment of preventing 815 from crashing. Remember that right before Juliet told Sawyer that she had something important to say she said that they should "go get coffee" and that they should "go dutch" if you add that with how strange Miles acts after channelling her and his vague response "It worked" I want to believe that Juliet becomes stuck in between universes like Desmond became stuck through time. Geez that was a long sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Remember that right before Juliet told Sawyer that she had something important to say she said that they should "go get coffee" and that they should "go dutch" if you add that with how strange Miles acts after channelling her and his vague response "It worked" I want to believe that Juliet becomes stuck in between universes like Desmond became stuck through time. Geez that was a long sentence. Agreed. It sounded like Juliet was asking out Sawyer in the "real world". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geggytah Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 So why exactly are we "certain" that Sayid = Jacob? Sorry if it's obvious but I clearly didn't think enough or missed something if it is that obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 ... Well, we're led to believe it's Jacob because Jacob asked Hurley to bring Sayid to the Temple and told the Others that if Sayid died, there would be dire consequences. Plus, there was a very clear allusion to Christ being carried off the cross when Sayid was pulled from the spring and laid to rest on the cloth. Since we know that Smokey possessed Locke, and that the MIB and Jacob are kind of equals when it comes to supernatural powers, we can assume that Jacob needed a body to inhabit once Ben killed him. Enter Sayid. further on this, i would then think that the "people" we have seen Jacob and Smokey as originally (when they were on the beach together) does not actually represent who or what they are either. the person that we have seen Jacob as, could have been a previous island visitor that got possessed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 With one exception, everyone that Smokey (or Jacob) has "embodied" has been dead and brought to the island (Eko's brother, Jack's father, Locke). The only exception has been Walt -- but that could be because Walt wasn't possessed at all but he was just "special". Oh, and I guess Kate's horse counts too. That would be another exception to this rule. indeed, i should have stated a "deceased" previous island visitor. depending on how Sci-Fi they really want to take it, Jacob and Smokey could easily be aliens whose ship (island) crashed here long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 To me the "it worked" comment likely a comment of preventing 815 from crashing. Yet the questions lingers why don't the 2007 Lostaways acknowledge this. Yet the stewardess from 815 at the Temple mentioned that Jack et all were from the "first" flight" not sure if this means anything more then they weren't part of the new crew from 316 or not but it's a line that stuck with me. Another line that stuck with me was Charlie commenting that he was supposed to die. Agreed that Smokey is reading people's thoughts after their dead as think is "it's" way of convincing other people that it's human. As starting to believe that Smokey is the devil and Jacob is God/Jesus or whatever you want to call your "Good deity" whereas Smokey is obviously the bad. White vs Black etc. As also remember comments about stuck on a rock could mean the island but think more of a comment about earth itself. Smokey's home ultimately might be hell. Smokey's commenting about seeing Richard in chains opens up that we could see the Richard back story episode, that I for one and sure many others crave. Locke's discussion with Jack at the end was touching and opens up the idea that perhaps Jack can fix Locke. Yet again questions remain about the purpose of the island etc. ... Well, we're led to believe it's Jacob because Jacob asked Hurley to bring Sayid to the Temple and told the Others that if Sayid died, there would be dire consequences. Plus, there was a very clear allusion to Christ being carried off the cross when Sayid was pulled from the spring and laid to rest on the cloth. Since we know that Smokey possessed Locke, and that the MIB and Jacob are kind of equals when it comes to supernatural powers, we can assume that Jacob needed a body to inhabit once Ben killed him. Enter Sayid. Darlton said on Jimmy Kimmel last night that the Sayid=Jacob idea is basically right, but there will be some fine-tuning of this yet to come. Some things that have bothered me a bit... 1) Rousseau's baby was stolen from her in 1988, by Ben and Ethan. Ben was then back in Dharmaville in 1992 for the Purge. What's up with that? Was it like a Others Reserve weekend for Ben? 2) There's also Faraday's assertion that exploding the H-bomb over the Swan will stop the freighter from ever coming to the island. Is that necessarily so? Or could all of what happened with the O6, etc. --- all of it --- been part of the "secondary protocol"? I dunno what to make of the situation of the island being underwater in the Alt world. W/Could Widmore's intentions still be accomplished? Also, it seems a pretty good guess now that the box Ben took out of the motel vent before 316 left was his ankh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linksfiend Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I have a few comments and a few questions: C1: I love reading this board then rewatching the episode over the weekend. Most of your comments are very insightful. C2: I'm intrigued by Jokeman's comment highlighting Cindy's "first flight" statement. I'm guessing that Christian's body disappeared during the turbulence of the second flight. So that first flight / second flight comment could be revealing. Q1: So now if there are two realities with two flights, where does the underwater island fit in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linksfiend Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Oh, my other question was: Q2: If Jacob took over Sayid's body like Smokey took over Locke's when Locke was dead, doesn't that mean Sayid is also dead? And, if Sayid is dead, then isn't everyone in "deep trouble" or whatever Jacob said would happen if Sayid died? Thus, I wouldn't be too positive that it is Jacob in Sayid's body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I have a few comments and a few questions: C1: I love reading this board then rewatching the episode over the weekend. Most of your comments are very insightful. C2: I'm intrigued by Jokeman's comment highlighting Cindy's "first flight" statement. I'm guessing that Christian's body disappeared during the turbulence of the second flight. So that first flight / second flight comment could be revealing. Q1: So now if there are two realities with two flights, where does the underwater island fit in? if anyone is able to rewatch that clip now, can we clarify whether she said "first flight" or "first plane"? remember there have now been TWO plane crashes on the island. Flights 815 and 316. i was under the impression that she meant "the plane i was on from 3 years ago, not the one that crashed a couple days ago". but i could be wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I immediately thought that both Jacob and his "brother" are beings who continually resurrect into new bodies when they die to continue their struggles. This spring facillitates this process. It is highly possible that they have both done this several times, and the the men we know as Jacob and his nemesis (should be call him Esau?) are past visitors to the island that were possessed by the White and the Black? Does it also follow that while Esau is the smoke (aka monster, or evil, black presence), the animated dead people seen throughout the series (boone, walt, christian) are manifestations of Jacob (white, the light, good) trying to help the islanders? Seeing the island underwater also, for some reason, made me think of Walt appearing to Shannon soaking wet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I immediately thought that both Jacob and his "brother" are beings who continually resurrect into new bodies when they die to continue their struggles. This spring facillitates this process. It is highly possible that they have both done this several times, and the the men we know as Jacob and his nemesis (should be call him Esau?) are past visitors to the island that were possessed by the White and the Black? Does it also follow that while Esau is the smoke (aka monster, or evil, black presence), the animated dead people seen throughout the series (boone, walt, christian) are manifestations of Jacob (white, the light, good) trying to help the islanders? Seeing the island underwater also, for some reason, made me think of Walt appearing to Shannon soaking wet... great catch!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I immediately thought that both Jacob and his \"brother\" are beings who continually resurrect into new bodies when they die to continue their struggles. This spring facillitates this process. It is highly possible that they have both done this several times, and the the men we know as Jacob and his nemesis (should be call him Esau?) are past visitors to the island that were possessed by the White and the Black? From their conversation on the beach it's obvious that Jacob and MiB/Esau have done this game in the past. As perhaps they bring people to the island to test humanity. Yet think we saw Esau tell Ben in Locke form that he's tired of the game and wants to go home and might be why he killed Jacob. Yet appears Jacob is going to one up him and reappear as Sayid. With one exception, everyone that Smokey (or Jacob) has \"embodied\" has been dead and brought to the island (Eko\'s brother, Jack\'s father, Locke). The only exception has been Walt -- but that could be because Walt wasn\'t possessed at all but he was just \"special\". Oh, and I guess Kate\'s horse counts too. That would be another exception to this rule. What about Ben's mother? As it was the vision of his mother (now the question is was this vision Jacob or Mib/Esau?) that caused young Ben to venture into the woods and find The Others. Another thing I forgot to bring up and probably it's obvious but with the ash circles it appear likely that Jacob was in the cabin and The Others were trying to protect him from Mib/Esau and likely why only Ben and Richard were the only ones that were supposed to meet with him. if anyone is able to rewatch that clip now, can we clarify whether she said \"first flight\" or \"first plane\"? remember there have now been TWO plane crashes on the island. Flights 815 and 316. i was under the impression that she meant \"the plane i was on from 3 years ago, not the one that crashed a couple days ago\". but i could be wrong.... I just watched it again and the the quote was, "I know who they are. They were on the first plane, Oceanic 815, along with me". As I originally stated, I think the obvious connection is to think 815 vs 316 but again I just wonder... I mean if Oceanic Flight 815 lands in LA like we see in 2004 the question still remains why are Lostaways are on the island in 2007 and why would Sawyer be ranting about things didn't work when it appears it did when we see him in the LA airport and of course this is what we'll find out in the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'm with you on this one, I even took the night off(something I used to do when the Bills were good and would have a playoff game). This is the closest I've had to that feeling since. I said the same exact thing to my brother. I don't know what you were watching- that was the strongest premiere the series has ever had, including the pilot. Seriously, that dude is on some s**t. I loved every minute of the premiere. I thought it was masterfull. where to even begin?!?! first off, another great premier. if there is one thing they do well in this series its their premiers and finales. ...i guess that's two things technically. ha! ok, the bomb "worked"! I think what we will end up seeing is that Juliet had a Desmond-like experience when she detonated the bomb. What was an instant flash for the rest of the group, might have been a much longer journey for Juliet, until she woke up under the hatch. It's quite possible that during this journey, she either witnesses the other time line, or Mrs Hawking tells her that it worked. now how they are going to explain the alternate time-line, i have no idea. whether it's going to be an alternate universe thing. or a case where the LOSTies are now stuck on the island forever because there are "other" versions of them living in real life. i dont know. wrt MiB knowing Locke's last thoughts. We know that Smokey reads people minds. I'm fairly certain that he can read people's memories even if they are dead. so my guess is that he got to Locke's body in the cargo hull and extracted his most recent memories. it's just my opinion, but i doubt that he was "in" Locke anytime before the return to the island. Locke was simply a manipulated pawn who had his faith played, i dont think he was a "costume" for MiB until the return. lots more to talk about, but my boss is currently watching me type this so i need to wrap it up! back later to discuss more! Maybe that's why Jacob chose whom he chose to be on the island. Each person has a different gift and combined they have what Smokey has. Here's some examples, Hurley can see dead people, the oriental guy can hear dead people's thoughts, Jack is a doctor/healer, Sayid can get down and dirty etc etc etc. Jacob probably needed these "gifts" from these people to compete with Smokey's powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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