How do you build moving forward

[BillsVet]

I don't think anyone gets it. We have chaged QB's, linemen, linebackers, secondary... 10 times this decade. THAT is not our problem. We have the wrong people making the decisions. No player will help this team. We need a new front office (GM, head coach, and new directors) in order to move forward. People always say things like how do these teams "find" these players (Harrison from Pittsburgh or Sanders from Indy are examples). The Steelers and Colts didn't "find" them, they made them great players just like what the Patriots, Cowboys, Eagles etc. do over and over again.

 

When you look at the Steelers, Patriots, and Colts high round picks this decade it's far and away better than the bottom feeders. The reason is indeed management, most notably a personnel structure led by someone who knows what they're doing. Whether it's director of football ops Kevin Colbert in PIT, Bill Polian with Indy, or a Belichick paired with a Pioli or Reese in NE, they have their people in place.

 

Meanwhile, the Bills don't even know what to do offensively or defensively. How can a dysfunctional management structure find players for a coaching staff which can't figure out what to do? This team is further away in 09 than they were in 05 from making the playoffs.

[Captain Hindsight]

QB. I think Bell will get better and Meridith/Butler are good enough with room to improve IMO. But until this team can make a play (and Aaron Rodgers has been doing it all year with no line or defense) We wont win, Period.

 

 

We still have a bad line but without a QB it wont mean much if we have the best. I use the Browns as an example. Pretty good line, No QB

[billsfan89]

Philosophically I think you go QB BUT you don't start the kid, you sign a guy like Chad Pennington and keep Fitz on the roster in order to have those guys take the hits and teach the kid (Pennington seems like a guy who could be a great teacher and a great QB coach one day). Also Pennington is due for a healthy season.

 

HOWEVER its all about how highly you view the guys coming out of the draft. If you like a QB try and take that guy, HOWEVER if you don't see a franchise guy don't take one grab a LT to help out the offensive line. Then in the second round go out and grab a defensive front 7 player.

 

Either way go out and grab a QB or LT in round 1 those are your biggest needs. Then go out on the defensive side of the ball in round 2.

[THE GASH STATION]

Brees has one of the most egregious mullets of all time. He isn't looking good nowhere, nohow.

Crackin me up

[StupidNation]

If Alex Smith continues to play reasonably well why not? He's 25 and he's showing something right now. His last game he had 2 bad throws but overall looked pretty good in the last 2 games. Why not see if he can play ok and make a run at him and draft O-line at tackle in the first.

[zazie]

If Alex Smith continues to play reasonably well why not? He's 25 and he's showing something right now. His last game he had 2 bad throws but overall looked pretty good in the last 2 games. Why not see if he can play ok and make a run at him and draft O-line at tackle in the first.

We may just as well bring back JP Losman.

 

Smith belongs in the UFL.

[bills_fan]

I don't know too much about Ryan Mallet, the QB we are projected to take in the 2nd round, but the guy is 6'7" and 240 with a cannon (per the scouting report). Thats the type of big guy we need behind a bad OL. Not an injury risk like Bradford.

[MikeSpeed]

Does the swapping of Ortan and Cutler show us anything?

Ortan did little to nothing in Chicago, while Cutler was doing well in Denver.

Now that they've switched places so has their fortunes.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

left tackle.....not even peyton manning, tom brady or drew brees would look good behind this line, let alone a rookie QB.

Too bad we weren't in a position to draft Michael Oher last year(Oh wait .... we were!!). !! By next year, he, along with Mr. Wood and Mr. Levitre would be starting to form a very good line IMO. But I think those sacks in 2008 by Penn St. against Coastal Carolina, Syracuse and Temple were just a little too much to resist by our well esteemed scouting staff.

[stuckincincy]

Too bad we weren't in a position to draft Michael Oher last year(Oh wait .... we were!!). !! By next year, he, along with Mr. Wood and Mr. Levitre would be starting to form a very good line IMO. But I think those sacks in 2008 by Penn St. against Coastal Carolina, Syracuse and Temple were just a little too much to resist by our well esteemed scouting staff.

 

"Right now, rookie left tackle Michael Oher looks terrible." TMQ's words...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl

 

I watched Oher in both CIN - BAL games. He's bounced between LT and RT, and BAL is giving him much additional line help - too much, IMO, and it's hurting them.

[Thoner7]

"Right now, rookie left tackle Michael Oher looks terrible." TMQ's words...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl

 

I watched Oher in both CIN - BAL games. He's bounced between LT and RT, and BAL is giving him much additional line help - too much, IMO, and it's hurting them.

 

Not to argue you personally Cincy, but the Mike Mayock chat linked in another thread has this to say in responce to the question "Do you think Percy Harvin can win ROY?"

 

Mike Mayock, NFL Network - "love Harvin and he certainly is one of the front runner of rookie of the year. On offense, tackle Michael Oher has played extremely well in Baltimore ..."

 

Me, Ill take Mayocks word over everyone, let alone an ESPN internet columnist. Mayock also goes on to name Byrd the leading canidate for defensive ROY FYI.

 

 

 

On a seperate note, My previous posts said I want to add two tackles in next years offseason, and it just dawned on me that the Jags did just that. They drafted E. Monroe and E Britton with their first two draft picks last draft and both have started since day 1. I have no idea how they have performed as I havent watched Jax this season but it just goes to show it can be done. Two Gs last year, two Ts this year! I have watched Okung and agree he is a great passblocking LT, but I really love Baluga the JR from Iowa - he blocks with the same fire that Wood does. Not sure about him on the left side, but on the right I see dominance. Hopefully we can add both, or at least one, of those guys. Go Bills!

[stuckincincy]

Not to argue you personally Cincy, but the Mike Mayock chat linked in another thread has this to say in responce to the question "Do you think Percy Harvin can win ROY?"

 

Mike Mayock, NFL Network - "love Harvin and he certainly is one of the front runner of rookie of the year. On offense, tackle Michael Oher has played extremely well in Baltimore ..."

 

Me, Ill take Mayocks word over everyone, let alone an ESPN internet columnist. Mayock also goes on to name Byrd the leading canidate for defensive ROY FYI.

 

On a seperate note, My previous posts said I want to add two tackles in next years offseason, and it just dawned on me that the Jags did just that. They drafted E. Monroe and E Britton with their first two draft picks last draft and both have started since day 1. I have no idea how they have performed as I havent watched Jax this season but it just goes to show it can be done. Two Gs last year, two Ts this year! I have watched Okung and agree he is a great passblocking LT, but I really love Baluga the JR from Iowa - he blocks with the same fire that Wood does. Not sure about him on the left side, but on the right I see dominance. Hopefully we can add both, or at least one, of those guys. Go Bills!

 

Fair enough - Mayock's observations trump mine by a wide, wide margin!

 

The CIN games were the only BAL games I've seen. They were helping Oher a good deal - IMO, to detriment of their overall offensive effort. Still - obviously - a good pick by them.

 

I didn't know either, that JAX were starting their rookie tackles.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Current non first round QBs who have had/are having success:

Matt Hasselback*

Kurt Warner**

Mark Bulger

Chad Henne

T. Brady**

Schaub

Garrard

Orton

Cassel

Romo

Delhomme*

Brees*

 

* Led team to Super Bowl

** Won Superbowl

Some of these guys had a couple of good years and fell off, but there were very good to great too.

 

Recent 1st round Busts or somewhat busts

Losman

Quinn

V.Young

Russel

Campbell

Harrington

Carr

Leinart

Alex Smith

 

Some of these guys have kinda gotten the short end of the stick, but haven't cemented themselves as great QBs either.

 

The lists are equally long.

 

The QB does not need to be a 1st rounder. The last thing we need is a huge reach for a QB in the first round - ie Losman.

Great stuff Thoner.

 

Many people want to take a quarterback in the first round and think that it solves the quarterback problem. As I stated in another thread about the rules protecting quarterbacks (I'm all for them), there are very few good quarterbacks in the NFL right now. The bust rate is high and with few exceptions, they take time to develop.

 

Here are the significant quarterbacks drafted since 2000 with comments:

 

2009 1st Round: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman (looks promising)

2008 1st Round: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco 2nd Round: Chad Henne (looks promising)

2007 1st Round: JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn 2nd Round: Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton 3rd Round: Trent Edwards (Kolb might be the most promising of this entire group, Trent was...not so much now. As a group, so far, so bad)

2006 1st Round: Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler (all are talented, none are established)

2005 1st Round: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers (Rodgers looks to be good for the most part, Smith is trying to resurrect his career)

2004 1st Round: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J.P. Losman 3rd Round: Matt Schaub (one of the all-time best quarterback drafts)

2003 1st Round: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman (only one quality starter from this group...all were given ample opportunity to succeed, three failed)

2002 1st Round: David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey (bust, bust, bust)

2001 1st Round: Michael Vick 2nd Round: Drew Brees (Vick's career is in limbo, Brees is as good as anyone)

2000 1st Round: Chad Pennington 6th Round: Tom Brady, Marc Bulger (one star and two average quarterbacks)

[Thoner7]

Great stuff Thoner.

 

Many people want to take a quarterback in the first round and think that it solves the quarterback problem. As I stated in another thread about the rules protecting quarterbacks (I'm all for them), there are very few good quarterbacks in the NFL right now. The bust rate is high and with few exceptions, they take time to develop.

 

Here are the significant quarterbacks drafted since 2000 with comments:

 

2009 1st Round: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman (looks promising)

2008 1st Round: Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco 2nd Round: Chad Henne (looks promising)

2007 1st Round: JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn 2nd Round: Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton 3rd Round: Trent Edwards (Kolb might be the most promising of this entire group, Trent was...not so much now. As a group, so far, so bad)

2006 1st Round: Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler (all are talented, none are established)

2005 1st Round: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers (Rodgers looks to be good for the most part, Smith is trying to resurrect his career)

2004 1st Round: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J.P. Losman 3rd Round: Matt Schaub (one of the all-time best quarterback drafts)

2003 1st Round: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman (only one quality starter from this group...all were given ample opportunity to succeed, three failed)

2002 1st Round: David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey (bust, bust, bust)

2001 1st Round: Michael Vick 2nd Round: Drew Brees (Vick's career is in limbo, Brees is as good as anyone)

2000 1st Round: Chad Pennington 6th Round: Tom Brady, Marc Bulger (one star and two average quarterbacks)

 

Yea, dont get me wrong, I am all for drafting 1st round QBs if they look good, but I dont see many this year. I loved M. Ryan coming out of school, and got ripped on when I told my buddy he was the next Peyton Manning. If I thought there was a good QB in this draft I would say trade every pick we have just for him, but there aint one out there. Who knows if we will even have a chance at a QB, Locker, Bradford, Clauson, Mallet - all of them could stay in school. The safe bet at this point is fix our biggest problem - the OL.

[apuszczalowski]

sounds like a great plan -

 

in fact very similar to the same plan the Bills have used to stock their OL since Polian left

 

pretend that castoffs and scrubs are NFL caliber players

and then get some some inept OL coaches to mold them into a studly bunch

 

by the way- your assessment is completely off base

 

inexperience has not been the problem with the OL for the last 15 years,

lack of talent has been the problem

But now the Bills have drafted 2 good guards, who are playing on a line with only 1 player who had an NFL start before this season started, and you want to say inexperience isn't the problem????

 

This current line needs some time to gain some experienced before we start over again, or bring ineven more rookies to start on it

[bowery4]

See what TE does the rest of the year first, if he sucks see what we have in GH (seriously), I have seen enough of Fitz thank you . Address the FO next (can them all, bring in new coaches, seen plenty of them as well), pick Tebrow if he is there in the second round. Go FA for a RT or move one of our here now guys there. Draft 2 big LTs late in round 1 as RW is too cheap to pay a top 6 (which is what I think we have at this point), plus then if one is a bust you still get at least one good one.

I don't like the FA option much TBH because there is no one giving up a franchisce qb. The best we could do is "servicable" and we have that in Trent maybe (who knows with these dingbats coaching him).

Big and fast LBs and Def line in the rest of the draft and FA.

I would hope we could get a good QB but this team needs more talent in many other places still. One thing I see with teams with **** Olines is talent in other spots besides QB. ie Pitts or GB, Plus we still don't know TE really sucks because he has been coached by these guys.

[sharper802]

Yes they need a franchise QB. Which team doesn't? Is Trent that guy, probably not but does anyone trust this staff to do the things to find out?

 

The point being who says you have to get a franchise QB in the first round?