Dr. Trooth Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Brady, on average, releases the ball in less than 3 seconds (and many times less than two seconds) from the time the ball is snapped. There were only about 4 times in which he took more than 3.5 seconds to unload the ball.... and the one time he held it for 5 seconds, he was sacked by Starks. The point? Any idiot... let alone an NFL OC, has to know that if you design and structure an offense, when you pass, you need to have that ball gone before "four missisippi". If your QB ain't doing that with regularity, you need to get your ass kicked to the curb, cuz you ain't gonna cut in in the NFL. And, if the FO, HC don't know it, they have no business coaching in the NFL. So... next time you see Trent or Fitz holding on to the ball till the time you count to four missisippi, the sack is on them and Van Pelt... not the Oline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 99% of Bradys throws are either some type of screen or a pre snap read and some kind of three step route. They force matchups with their formations and use them to open up easy underneath throws. Brady is a very average QB in my opinion. See M. Cassel in 08 and Orton in Denver (Josh McDaniels offense). Anyone can do it. He is no Manning/Brees. So yes it is the design of the O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I did not see the game today. I have watched a lot of his games though. Most of the time, he seems to have enough time to eat both lunch and dinner back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Brady, on average, releases the ball in less than 3 seconds (and many times less than two seconds) from the time the ball is snapped. There were only about 4 times in which he took more than 3.5 seconds to unload the ball.... and the one time he held it for 5 seconds, he was sacked by Starks. The point? Any idiot... let alone an NFL OC, has to know that if you design and structure an offense, when you pass, you need to have that ball gone before "four missisippi". If your QB ain't doing that with regularity, you need to get your ass kicked to the curb, cuz you ain't gonna cut in in the NFL. And, if the FO, HC don't know it, they have no business coaching in the NFL. So... next time you see Trent or Fitz holding on to the ball till the time you count to four missisippi, the sack is on them and Van Pelt... not the Oline. Trooth, I've been saying similar things for years (as have others, I know). A few years back, CBS did a spot where they were trying to show the genius of Tom Brady on display. They ran a replay with a clock running and Brady did indeed release the ball quickly, in the 3.5 second range. Then they showed Losman, time awastin', getting sacked around 4.something. However, one of the key differences on display was the structure of the pocket around each qb. Where Brady had time to set up and throw---and indeed did his part by making the read and releasing the ball, the o-line for our fave team was breaking down virtually from the start, though not necessarily in a way that allowed direct up the middle pressure. A good description, I'd say, was "anarchy in the streets". I'd love to see a qb in Buffalo face something other than consistent anarchy in the streets. I'd love to have the certainty that our next "He's no good" qb failed miserably with a a good to great offensive line in front of him. When you lack consistency up front, all hell breaks loose. The story of the line in Buffalo is that when you alwayd do what you always did, you always get what you always got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Brady is a very average QB in my opinion. See M. Cassel in 08 and Orton in Denver (Josh McDaniels offense). Anyone can do it. He is no Manning/Brees.So yes it is the design of the O. Sorry, but your opinion is pretty jaded or something. I'm not a Brady fan but he's way above average. Just like Manning and the Colts, Brady is the single biggest reason why NE has been so consistently good for the past many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Sorry, but your opinion is pretty jaded or something. I'm not a Brady fan but he's way above average. Just like Manning and the Colts, Brady is the single biggest reason why NE has been so consistently good for the past many years. true. dat. jc, the guy's behind center for 3 super bowl wins, guided one the most prolific offenses in the history of the game, had his team on the threshold of a 4th sb title and currently sits at 6-2. i'd love to say otherwise, but you have to work pretty hard not to respect brady as a great qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 brady is good but not as great as he is rated. we can see from cassel that another guy who can't start in college and sucks ass for kc (way worse than thigpen) can get pro bowl type numbers on that O. so many passes are pre snap reads, once the ball is snapped brady is already throwing the ball short. some DC has to figure out how to disguise a corner with the LBs and jump those routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Cold Bruschi Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Sorry but you're either a fool or someone with an ax to grind if you don't think Brady is elite. Anyone who watched Brady through out his career and then watched Cassel last year noticed the huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Sorry, but your opinion is pretty jaded or something. I'm not a Brady fan but he's way above average. Just like Manning and the Colts, Brady is the single biggest reason why NE has been so consistently good for the past many years. Brady is not the reason, its the team/system. Cassel went 11-5 as teh starter last season. Id love to see what Jim Sorgi could do with the Colts.... Bottom line is Manning on the Pats, they win those 3 SBs and easily a 4th (maybe even a 5th) to go 19-0 (take note of what Brady look like when he was pressured - compare to Manning). Brady on the Colts - they dont make the playoffs that many years in a row/have that many 12 win seasons in a row/win 1 Superbowl etc. If ESPN didnt suck his willie 24/7 a lot of you wouldnt share their opinion of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Brady, on average, releases the ball in less than 3 seconds (and many times less than two seconds) from the time the ball is snapped. There were only about 4 times in which he took more than 3.5 seconds to unload the ball.... and the one time he held it for 5 seconds, he was sacked by Starks. The point? Any idiot... let alone an NFL OC, has to know that if you design and structure an offense, when you pass, you need to have that ball gone before "four missisippi". If your QB ain't doing that with regularity, you need to get your ass kicked to the curb, cuz you ain't gonna cut in in the NFL. And, if the FO, HC don't know it, they have no business coaching in the NFL. So... next time you see Trent or Fitz holding on to the ball till the time you count to four missisippi, the sack is on them and Van Pelt... not the Oline. Bingo, I have been saying this for years that guys like manning & Brady make their lines look good, not the other way around. Brady & Manning pick their spots when to hold onto the ball but in most cases the ball is out of their hands before the rush can get to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Brady is not the reason, its the team/system. Cassel went 11-5 as teh starter last season. Id love to see what Jim Sorgi could do with the Colts.... Bottom line is Manning on the Pats, they win those 3 SBs and easily a 4th (maybe even a 5th) to go 19-0 (take note of what Brady look like when he was pressured - compare to Manning). Brady on the Colts - they dont make the playoffs that many years in a row/have that many 12 win seasons in a row/win 1 Superbowl etc. If ESPN didnt suck his willie 24/7 a lot of you wouldnt share their opinion of him. So if Cassel went 11-5, what would the record have been if Brady had not been injured at the start of the season? Your analysis of the situation is overly simplistic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 How would Trent Edwards do on the Pats*? better yet what about JP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 How would Trent Edwards do on the Pats*? better yet what about JP? Of course, there's not presently a way to tell, but I believe they would have winning records. Maybe even 10 or 11 wins in a season. That's not too far from where they are now, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Brady is not the reason, its the team/system. Cassel went 11-5 as teh starter last season. Id love to see what Jim Sorgi could do with the Colts.... Bottom line is Manning on the Pats, they win those 3 SBs and easily a 4th (maybe even a 5th) to go 19-0 (take note of what Brady look like when he was pressured - compare to Manning). Brady on the Colts - they dont make the playoffs that many years in a row/have that many 12 win seasons in a row/win 1 Superbowl etc. If ESPN didnt suck his willie 24/7 a lot of you wouldnt share their opinion of him. Huh, when Brady was winning those SB's he had street free agents and retreads helping him out on offense. Meanwhile, much of Manning's career in Indy, he's been blessed with perhaps the greatest group of complementary talent (Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Edge, Clark, Glenn, Saturday) in the game. I could only imagine the winning Brady would do if he was surrounded by the amount of talent Manning has had all of these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I did not see the game today. I have watched a lot of his games though. Most of the time, he seems to have enough time to eat both lunch and dinner back there. That was his point. He seems to have enough time to [insert boring, overused analogy here] because he gets rid of it quick. The only quip I have with the OP though, is how he arrived at his conclusion. The reason Brady gets rid of it so quick is less because of his talent, and more because of the fact that ALL of their routes are intended mismatches. Why is that, and why don't we do that? Because Brady can call audibles. Trent can't. End of story. Either way you look at it, our QB isn't cutting it. BUT teams have been able to win despite that. Our coaches can't. So cut 'em both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Huh, when Brady was winning those SB's he had street free agents and retreads helping him out on offense. Meanwhile, much of Manning's career in Indy, he's been blessed with perhaps the greatest group of complementary talent (Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Edge, Clark, Glenn, Saturday) in the game. I could only imagine the winning Brady would do if he was surrounded by the amount of talent Manning has had all of these years. Eh, it's not a real comparable situation. Anyways, you could argue that Brady's only statistically unbelievable record breaking year was complemented mostly by the addition of Moss and the emergence of Welker. Not to mention a great line. The bottom-line... All these great QB's make their team better. You can't just say comparatively that Manning had better receiving talent. How could you possibly compare that? Stats? No, those receiving yards were thrown by Manning. It's a near impossible argument to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Eh, it's not a real comparable situation. Anyways, you could argue that Brady's only statistically unbelievable record breaking year was complemented mostly by the addition of Moss and the emergence of Welker. Not to mention a great line. Brady's 50 TD season proves my point of what the guy can do if given talent to work with. Manning has always had such surrounding talent on offense to aid him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Huh, when Brady was winning those SB's he had street free agents and retreads helping him out on offense. Meanwhile, much of Manning's career in Indy, he's been blessed with perhaps the greatest group of complementary talent (Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Edge, Clark, Glenn, Saturday) in the game. I could only imagine the winning Brady would do if he was surrounded by the amount of talent Manning has had all of these years. How do you know that it wasn't Manning that made these offensive players? Edgerrin James was garbage after Indy let him walk via FA. Brandon Stokely? He is a never-was. Out of his ten year career, he put up a third (basically) of his stats that one big year in Indy. and you can flip it around by saying "I can only imagine the winning Manning would do if he were surrounded by a top-5 defense all of these years" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Brady, on average, releases the ball in less than 3 seconds (and many times less than two seconds) from the time the ball is snapped. There were only about 4 times in which he took more than 3.5 seconds to unload the ball.... and the one time he held it for 5 seconds, he was sacked by Starks. The point? Any idiot... let alone an NFL OC, has to know that if you design and structure an offense, when you pass, you need to have that ball gone before "four missisippi". If your QB ain't doing that with regularity, you need to get your ass kicked to the curb, cuz you ain't gonna cut in in the NFL. And, if the FO, HC don't know it, they have no business coaching in the NFL. So... next time you see Trent or Fitz holding on to the ball till the time you count to four missisippi, the sack is on them and Van Pelt... not the Oline. Brady is just that smart of a QB. He reads the defense quickly and is able to immediately know where he's going with the ball. He trusts the guys he's throwing the ball to and lets it go. In the event the defense has a good play called, he and his players have a chemistry together where they find an opening in the coverage, but we all know that everyone gets sacked sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 How do you know that it wasn't Manning that made these offensive players? Edgerrin James was garbage after Indy let him walk via FA. Brandon Stokely? He is a never-was. Out of his ten year career, he put up a third (basically) of his stats that one big year in Indy. Indy ran Edge to death so I'm not so sure you can draw the comparison you did. Stokely ..... if you wish to nit pick a few of the names out that's fine. Regardless, Manning has had far superior talent complementing him throughout his career than Brady. When Brady was given similar talent to Manning Brady set NFL records passing the ball. and you can flip it around by saying "I can only imagine the winning Manning would do if he were surrounded by a top-5 defense all of these years" Sure, if Manning also has Harrison, Wayne, Clark, etc then he'd win with a top defense. Most any QB would! But give Manning the far inferior offensive skill players that Brady had when he was winning and I'm not so sure that defense could overcome the inevitable choke job that Manning would produce come playoff time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Indy ran Edge to death so I'm not so sure you can draw the comparison you did. Stokely ..... if you wish to nit pick a few of the names out that's fine. Regardless, Manning has had far superior talent complementing him throughout his career than Brady. When Brady was given similar talent to Manning Brady set NFL records passing the ball. Sure, if Manning also has Harrison, Wayne, Clark, etc then he'd win with a top defense. Most any QB would! But give Manning the far inferior offensive skill players that Brady had when he was winning and I'm not so sure that defense could overcome the inevitable choke job that Manning would produce come playoff time. Bottomline, like it or not, is that Brady & Manning when their careers are all done are both are going to be sure fire first ballot hall of famers & probably are going to be both remembered as two of the best qbs to ever play the game. Anybody that says anything else clearly has a hidden agenda. Myself, I am going to be really interested to see when these guys retire how their fan base is going to react to inferior qb play. As the bills & dolphins are living proof it is very difficult to replace a franchise qb, these fans have been spoiled. Both fan bases I consider fairweather fans & it is going to see if they are going to be able to continue to sellout when the team's play is mediocre once these qbs retire. It is just going to be interesting to see. I hope their fans do not ever take these 2 guys for granted, because they are 2 of the best of alltime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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