PushthePile Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 This subject was all the rage in the preseason, and it nearly split TSW apart at the seams. Posters argued with such fury and passion you would think Cutler was on the team. I personally was at the heart of the argument and in the Cutler camp. It was a crazy time period with TO, Cutler, Peters, and hope. ....now that the dust has settled. I'd like to be the first to say I was wrong. They both suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 This subject was all the rage in the preseason, and it nearly split TSW apart at the seams. Posters argued with such fury and passion you would think Cutler was on the team. I personally was at the heart of the argument and in the Cutler camp. It was a crazy time period with TO, Cutler, Peters, and hope. ....now that the dust has settled. I'd like to be the first to say I was wrong. They both suck. Honestly Push, I think its to early to give up on both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Edwards sucks way more. I would take Cutler over Edwards 100% of the time. Cutler has no receivers in Chicago and Trent has great ones. Imagine if the rolls were reversed Cutler would have monster numbers throwing to Evans and TO and Edwards would be worse if that's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Edwards sucks way more. I would take Cutler over Edwards 100% of the time. Cutler has no receivers in Chicago and Trent has great ones. Imagine if the rolls were reversed Cutler would have monster numbers throwing to Evans and TO and Edwards would be worse if that's possible. You seem to have forgotten something. Cutler has a much better offensive line. NFL.com - offensive line Compare the sacks and the QB hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Well, I gracefully bow out of the debate. I have seen the light, in terms of Cutler. He might put up some nice stats now and again but he is a terrible decision-maker. He will have an up and down career playing the way he does but won't ever be a consistent winner. TE will be a solid backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Well, I gracefully bow out of the debate. I have seen the light, in terms of Cutler. He might put up some nice stats now and again but he is a terrible decision-maker. He will have an up and down career playing the way he does but won't ever be a consistent winner. TE will be a solid backup. I dunno... I still think Cutler is a notch or two better than Trent. I am not ready to say that nothing can be made of Edwards...but I can almost gurantee you, even with our crappy line, Terrell Owens and Lee Evans would have much better stats (and might even factor in to another win or two) than they have with Trent. Trent seems afraid of the notion of throwing the ball... Cutler is not... their mindsets are completely different. Cutler may have a mixed bag of results in his career as a starter, but I bet he is playing, as a starter, long after Trent has taken a seat. What the Bills lack in O-line talent, the Bears lack in WR talent... there is still the hope that Cutler can learn from his mistakes... Trent doesn't currently have the sack to make mistakes... and has become ineffective. This is very likely the result of crummy coaching... hopefully the damage done isn't permanent.... either way, at this point, it is hard to imagine Edwards getting better in a Bills uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 You seem to have forgotten something. Cutler has a much better offensive line. NFL.com - offensive line Compare the sacks and the QB hits. Yeah, amazing how aggressive defenses can be when you don't take shots down field. I'd rather have Cutler. .. Cutler gives you a chance to win. Edwards does not, he relies on our defense for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Well, I gracefully bow out of the debate. I have seen the light, in terms of Cutler. He might put up some nice stats now and again but he is a terrible decision-maker. He will have an up and down career playing the way he does but won't ever be a consistent winner. TE will be a solid backup. TE will only be a solid back-up if he's backing up a QB who never gets hurt. He sucks. Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 I dunno... I still think Cutler is a notch or two better than Trent. I am not ready to say that nothing can be made of Edwards...but I can almost gurantee you, even with our crappy line, Terrell Owens and Lee Evans would have much better stats (and might even factor in to another win or two) than they have with Trent. Trent seems afraid of the notion of throwing the ball... Cutler is not... their mindsets are completely different. Cutler may have a mixed bag of results in his career as a starter, but I bet he is playing, as a starter, long after Trent has taken a seat. What the Bills lack in O-line talent, the Bears lack in WR talent... there is still the hope that Cutler can learn from his mistakes... Trent doesn't currently have the sack to make mistakes... and has become ineffective. This is very likely the result of crummy coaching... hopefully the damage done isn't permanent.... either way, at this point, it is hard to imagine Edwards getting better in a Bills uniform. Agreed. We can do better than both, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Yeah, amazing how aggressive defenses can be when you don't take shots down field. I'd rather have Cutler. ... Cutler gives you a chance to win. Edwards does not, he relies on our defense for that. I would love to see a Buffalo Bills QB (whether it is Edwards or anyone else) play behind a good offensive line. It has been years since we had a good offensive line. I don't care who you put back there, we need a good line. It all starts up front. P.S. You can have Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 You seem to have forgotten something. Cutler has a much better offensive line. NFL.com - offensive line Compare the sacks and the QB hits. I don't think so. For the inexperience of the Bills line, the Bears line is not leaps and bounds better. The Bears have also played 1 less game. The Bills total of 56 man games for (LG,C,RG) compared to the Bears 422 man games is huge, and I have to believe the Bears tackles have more games played than do the Bills tackles. The sacks and hits numbers should drastically be in favor of the Bears and they are not. Sacks Bills 21 or 2.62 per game in 8 games played Bears 11 or 1.57 per game in 7 games played QB Hits Bills 54 or 6.75 per game in 8 games played Bears 30 or 4.28 per game in 7 games played Edwards/Fitzy are sacked 1.1 more times per game and are hit about 2.5 times more per game than Cutler, not much of a difference over the course of a 60 minute game. I would not call that "a much better offensive line". Due to their extreme inexperience, I think they stack up quite well compared to the Bears oline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I would love to see a Buffalo Bills QB (whether it is Edwards or anyone else) play behind a good offensive line. It has been years since we had a good offensive line. I don't care who you put back there, we need a good line. It all starts up front. P.S. You can have Cutler. Well, if we had a quarterback who can attack short (unlike Losman) AND long (unlike Edwards), defenses would have to do much more to respect our passing game, and we'd see A LOT more three and four man rushes than we see now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I don't think so. For the inexperience of the Bills line, the Bears line is not leaps and bounds better. The Bears have also played 1 less game. The Bills total of 56 man games for (LG,C,RG) compared to the Bears 422 man games is huge, and I have to believe the Bears tackles have more games played than do the Bills tackles. The sacks and hits numbers should drastically be in favor of the Bears and they are not. Sacks Bills 21 or 2.62 per game in 8 games played Bears 11 or 1.57 per game in 7 games played QB Hits Bills 54 or 6.75 per game in 8 games played Bears 30 or 4.28 per game in 7 games played Edwards/Fitzy are sacked 1.1 more times per game and are hit about 2.5 times more per game than Cutler, not much of a difference over the course of a 60 minute game. I would not call that "a much better offensive line". Due to their extreme inexperience, I think they stack up quite well compared to the Bears oline. The fact of the matter is that our QBs have to play behind that inexperienced line. The line is not graded on a curve. There is a huge difference in the QB hits. One also can extrapolate from these stats that our QBs have much less time to throw the ball to our receivers. All you have to do is watch the Bills to see how quickly the pocket collapses. Maybe our line will get better with experience. They obviously are not there yet. We also have been hit with injuries. We really miss Butler. Nevertheless, our inexperience, the injuries, and lack of quality up front have hurt our entire offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The fact of the matter is that our QBs have to play behind that inexperienced line. The line is not graded on a curve.There is a huge difference in the QB hits. One also can extrapolate from these stats that our QBs have much less time to throw the ball to our receivers. All you have to do is watch the Bills to see how quickly the pocket collapses. Maybe our line will get better with experience. They obviously are not there yet. We also have been hit with injuries. We really miss Butler. Nevertheless, our inexperience, the injuries, and lack of quality up front have hurt our entire offense. Is there? I don't think so. 2.5 times more over a 60 minute game is not much. Now if it were like 10-12 more times a game then you would have a case, but 2.5 more, no way. Oh yeah that terrible offensive line that you mention has 300 more rushing yards than the Bears (granted in 1 more game, but still). Hmmm... they really suck don't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The fact of the matter is that our QBs have to play behind that inexperienced line. The line is not graded on a curve. There is a huge difference in the QB hits. One also can extrapolate from these stats that our QBs have much less time to throw the ball to our receivers. All you have to do is watch the Bills to see how quickly the pocket collapses. Maybe our line will get better with experience. They obviously are not there yet. We also have been hit with injuries. We really miss Butler. Nevertheless, our inexperience, the injuries, and lack of quality up front have hurt our entire offense. Peter, with all due respect, how long can you use the offensive line as an excuse for horrid QB play? I understand, it is a huge factor, and I also realize, the line that the Bills are using right now is far below NFL caliber, but, I personally think, before this season, while not great, the Bills O-line was not as all-around horrible as we have been making it out to be. It was used as an excuse for all of Losman's woes, and later for Edwards. Before that, it was Bledsoe. A QB has to contribute to the success of his line as well... if they are making plays for him, but he isn't taking advantage, the QB is culpable for the lines poor play, as well. Truth is, neither of these guys seem to be able to make plays, even when they are there to be made. An athlete has to have a short memory. Edwards, like JP before him, seems conditioned to the idea that he doesn't have enough time. so he doesn't see what is really out there...he seems to hear footsteps... I think a lot of this is coaching, but, wherever the problem starts, the end result is, Buffalo just is not a place, right now, conducive to building a good NFL QB. A QB in Buffalo needs to be much more mentally tough... Cutler posseses some of that... not sure why you think he is so lousy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 You seem to have forgotten something. Cutler has a much better offensive line. NFL.com - offensive line Compare the sacks and the QB hits. Cutler also has an arm. Something Edwards is unlikely to ever have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Is there? I don't think so. 2.5 times more over a 60 minute game is not much. Now if it were like 10-12 more times a game then you would have a case, but 2.5 more, no way. Oh yeah that terrible offensive line that you mention has 300 more rushing yards than the Bears (granted in 1 more game, but still). Hmmm... they really suck don't they. If you like our offensive line's performance, you and I see the game completely differently. By the way, you are looking at the stats wrong. Cutler has attempted 239 passes. Edwards and Fitz have attempted 223 passes combined. In other words, Buffalo QBs have attempted fewer passes but have been hit almost twice as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I assure you, a Bills Message Board is the only place that anyone might even consider Trent better than Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I assure you, a Bills Message Board is the only place that anyone might even consider Trent better than Cutler. His absence has really hurt Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 This subject was all the rage in the preseason, and it nearly split TSW apart at the seams. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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