Andy1

Reports from operators of abortion clinics indicate that women from all racial-political-socio-economic strata use their services. As you say, “people are people” and surprise pregnancies happen. When women feel they need an abortion for whatever reason, they will do what is necessary or go to where it is provided. Bans on the procedure especially target the young and poor who are less able to travel to a provider state. Not sure what you mean here. Personally, I’m not for unrestricted access to abortion. I’m just assuming that republican politicians do not want to harm women with pregnancy complications. Thus, they should allow medical doctors to decide if such procedure is needed to protect the health of the girl/woman. No woman wants to be denied necessary medical care due to the wording in a law written by stupid politicians. She shouldn’t have to be near death to get treatment,

The report ChiGoose quotes is exactly what I predicted last week. This will become a real shock to republican anti abortion women who have pregnancy complications. The political support for strict anti abortion laws is at its peak now and will only decline in the future as women and their partners, friends and parents from all walks of life, realize it affects their health care. If republicans were smart, they would craft laws that give wide leeway to doctors to determine the medical need for abortion procedures to protect the health of women. They will need to push back on the religious right a bit to do this. Otherwise, this issue is going to backfire on them. I have no faith that they will do this.

I agree completely that popularity is not the rationale for their decisions. This court is forcing the legislative branch to legislate. It’s. Going to be interesting because for about as long as I can remember Congress tried to avoid making decisions. They were happy to designate some day as National Dairy Day but would avoid taking a vote on anything meaningful. Their sole purpose as elected officials had been to collect cash to get re-elected. This court is definitely changing that. When the SC sends decisions back to the states though, we may end up with widely varying laws between states. Deciding where to move to won’t just be what state has the best weather. People and corporations will need to consider many other factors that affect their quality of life.

The SC interprets the Constitution based upon the justices political philosophy. This is why there is an epic political battle for who gets on the court. It is also why rulings are overturned. The founding fathers had could not foresee many of the issues the court must decide today.

One thing I’m sure of is there are alot of upstanding religious, conservative southern women who have saved their marriage or reputation by having an abortion they didn’t tell anyone about. It’s their personal little secret. They never thought the law would change. Now they are all going to have to take longer “vacations” in the future. Hypocrisy is everywhere on this issue. It’s easy to be anti abortion when it’s the poor teenage girl from a broken family in the trailer park. When it affects the healthcare of middle class women, minds will change. Lawyers rule the world. If there is any uncertain medical issue, they will be advising hospitals to restrict care to protect the hospital from legal liability.

The media likes to push the division between the left and right in America. Emphasizing the division helps sell and keeps people glued to the tube. At this time, the Supreme Court is dominated by conservative justices whose views are not supported by a majority of Americans. It appears that they are on the path of overturning laws that were previously considered settled law. Gay marriage rights may be next to fall. They seem to be sending the issues back to the states or congress for resolution through legislation. What we may end up with is a bunch of issues that are patchwork of laws, differing widely by state. Where you live may have a great impact on what rights you enjoy. On the personal level, lots of Americans need to go back to school and take civics classes to learn how to disagree without insulting each other. People need to talk with those who are different from them. When you are laying in a hospital bed, you don’t care if your doc or nurse is liberal or conservative, or white, black, Hispanic or Asian. When you get to know other people, we all have a lot in common. Talk is cheap. Anyone talking of civil war has no idea what war is about. What the hell would we be fighting about anyway? Gay marriage? Abortion? Tax policy? Signs on bathrooms?

Happy 4th to everyone on this board! While at times we may debate on issues or politics, today we remember that we are all Americans and grateful to be citizens of this nation. America has its challenges but there is no place else I would rather live.

Yes, and our nation has a long history of, at times, passing laws that are unjust. This is one of those times.

This is an interesting read. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/abortion-roe-prolife-movement-prohibition/661402/ The writer compares the win for the anti abortion movement to the victory for prohibition supporters. Eventually he suggests that a truce may develop between the pro-life vs pro-choice movements as has already happened in many other countries.

I think the viability of the fetus must be considered. I’m pretty much in agreement with the suggestion by ChiGoose above. Generally allowing it up to fetal viability is also the position of most states in the nation. Only AK, CO, NM, OR, VT, and NJ allow abortions through the full 9 month term. At the other end of the spectrum, SD, OK, AR, MO and AL don’t allow any abortion after conception. More states may be moving in that direction though. In TX, TN, OH and SC it is allowed up to 6 weeks. The vast majority of states (including traditionally liberal states like CA, NY, MA and CT) have permitted it without restrictions up to fetal viability which is defined as in the 24-26 week range. I would suggest that state definitions for age of consent be used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States This is just a very complex issue affecting womens health that goes way beyond saving babies is the right thing so let’s ban it. I have no faith that male dominated legislatures in republican states understand the complexities of this issue. They have been catering to the religious right for years and have no courage to make laws that would disappoint them and allow exceptions in their bans. The next thing I expect to see is politicians offering their “thoughts and prayers” to girls like this.

For years republicans have said that you can’t trust the government because they are incompetent. Now all of a sudden, they want you to trust them with the health decisions for your wives, girlfriends and daughters. When they are forcing kids to have kids, something is seriously f’d up.

And so the suffering of women and girls begins…. I saw another report of doctors not filling prescriptions for methotrexate which is used to treat many autoimmune diseases. They won’t prescribe it because it is considered an abortifacient. This is just the beginning.

Ok, to be crystal clear, here is what he said to Jonathan Karl of ABC News. “Well, the people were very angry,” Trump said. “They said, ‘hang Mike Pence,’” Karl told Trump. “It’s common sense, Jon. It’s common sense that you’re supposed to protect,” Trump said. “How can you, if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?” Now if a crowd was chanting to hang someone you cared about, say your brother, would your first thought be to defend the mob saying it’s common sense? If you cared - hell no! No normal human has that response. You also would not assume he was protected, you would take affirmative action of some kind to try to protect him. Trump didn’t care. At least that’s my view. Others may say or do differently for their brother.

What evidence is there that Trump took any action to protect Pence? Why would he instigate the mob tweeting “Pence doesn’t have the courage…” when he knows the violent mob is in the Capital? He himself has said that he deserved to be murdered. It doesn’t get any clearer than that. He was just fine with Pence, Romney, Pelosi, AOC, etc. being killed.

Wow! That’s not what I meant. Everything I spoke of was in the context of a medically necessary abortion that the woman wanted. The doctors opinion (as patient advocate) should rule, not clumsy ambiguous legal wording written by morons in a legislature.

Are you naive enough to believe that legislatures dominated by men will write the laws governing the bodies of women correctly the first time? I would bet that the tendency will be for them to over reach to please the religious righteous. Over the years, the laws may be corrected but until then, women will suffer.

It’s a simple problem to solve. The states need to give exclusive authority to determine the medical need for an abortion to the patients doctor. No other subjective qualifications required for the procedure. Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to happen.

This is what will happen. I doubt that these legislatures are going to invite the medical community to help craft their laws. Instead they will say something stupid like “only allowed to save the life of the mother”. So if a fetus medically needs to be aborted, will doctors need to wait until the mothers life is in danger before doing the necessary procedure? Will the mother be denied medical care, increasing the risk to her health? They may have to tell women to “come back when you are about to die “. They may eventually figure it out, but women will suffer until then.

I think a bunch of republican states have extreme laws that were passed just to please the religious right, without ever thinking they would actually take effect. Now they are in effect. Hopefully the medical community and outraged citizens push the politics to modify these draconian laws.

She knows she is sinking her political career in this current version of the Republican Party. She is a true conservative who values truth above party. Someday Trump will be gone. Maybe trumpism will fade. Maybe then, she will be recognized by the party as a patriot and someone who sacrificed their political future for the good of the country. Historians know she is one of the few republicans who stood for truth and for American democracy. Trump and his supporters… not so much. But they probably don’t care.

Anyone who says a word against the orange god king must be expelled from the cult.The only thing that matters is to protect and serve Trump. What a cult. Seriously, that young lady had amazing courage to testify today. I hope she is protected.

Whatever happened inside the Beast is kinda irrelevant. There was plenty of other testimony indicating Trump was planning to overturn the election. I mean what President has ever said that his VP deserved to be murdered?! The only answer is Trump.

Trump was right about one thing - he could shoot someone in the head on a sunny day, in the middle of 5th Avenue in NYC and his followers would still support him. They would still give him their money for his legal defense fund after he claims that he was set up by Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton.

Just because their plan wasn’t iron clad logical means nothing. By this time Trump was ignoring the advice of the rational legal staff around him. He was only listening to the nuts he surrounded himself with : Guliani, Flynn, Stone, the pillow guy, the crazy woman lawyer, etc. There was nothing logical at all with that brain trust.

The steering wheel and thrown food don’t have much legal implication, though they do suggest his state of mind. The more incriminating testimony was that he knew the crowd had weapons and didn’t care. He knew they weren’t going to injure him. He was fine with sending the people with the weapons up to the Capital. He was uninterested in the safety of the Vice President. He would have been happy if the mob killed Pence. Meadows participating in the meeting of the Trump nuts (Flynn, Giuliani, Stone) on the night of 1/5 also indicates planning for the following day. Stone had Oath Keepers for his personal body guards. Oath Keepers were one of the para military groups there on 1/6. Meadows and Giuliani requested pardons. Either it was a planned coup or all just an incredible coincidence of details and testimony under oath incriminating Trump.