PBF81

Given the team and leadership we now have? ... in a NY second. I could die a happy man with just one Championship. More would be great, none is unacceptable. LOL They've had 6 seasons (McD) and 5 seasons (Beane) to get us to a Super Bowl, something that our team with a notably lesser QB did four straight years, and they've failed. Now we've got a ton of holes, Miami and the Jets, of all teams, breathing up our ass and with already splitting with them with a superior team this past season, and of course the team that simply won't die, the Pats, even if they will hover around .500 and fail to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future, they're still a threat to take a regular season game. I don't know how much Pegula cares about optimizing the performance of this team given the talent that we do have, but depending upon how this coming season goes, I can envision changes in coaching and management ahead. I don't think we'll have any losing seasons in the near future, I can't even envision that with Allen at QB, but I can see us not winning the division, going in as a Wild Card, and of course our playoff performance to date raises serious questions as to whether McD is even capable of winning the three or more likely four games in the playoffs required to win it all. The failures in coaching prowess in those games have not been merely simple miscues, they've been cataclysmic oversights taht fall well into the "WTF was he thinking" category. Unless it's a trash QB, our defense doesn't even play well when we win, and we're likely losing Edmunds and Poyer and who knows who else. If we're even close to the #1 D in the regular season this forthcoming season I'll be thoroughly impressed with McD given the current lack of talent on the unit should Edmunds and Poyer leave, and barring some completely unexpected major moves on D. Those are two huge losses. I wouldn't pay huge money to keep either for reasons, but the dropoff from them to the "next man up" in both cases is sizeable. I mean who steps in for Edmunds? This talk of Bernard taking his place is laughable, and he's arguably the "best option." Fair enough, apparently not. Likewise, I never mean anything personally. Always trying to engage.

Why not simply have asked "What were your expectations for the team to date under McDermott as head coach?" A. I expected to merely regularly win the division. B. I expected to make the playoffs every season, but not to advance much in them. C. I expected us to challenge for AFC Champions regularly. D. I expected us to have won a Super Bowl/Championship by now. E. I expected an up-and-down campaign with little if any consistency or continuity. F. I had no expectations of even making the playoffs regularly. Or add in whatever other option you wanted. That would tell you exactly what peoples' expectations were from McDermott, rather than posing the question with the backdrop that McD has either fulfilled or not fulfilled them, which necessarily will give you false responses by the supporters of McD. Think about it, someone that had greater expectations, but that supports McD thinking that he's not the reason for our problems, something difficult to believe, is likely to answer in favor of McD. There are many divisions amongst fans here with some complexities. Some support McD, Beane, Dorsey, and Frasier (now gone I realize, and not likely to return ever imo). Some support McD but not Beane. Some support one or the other or both Coordinators but not McD. Some support McD but not one or both Coordinators. Some Support Beane but not McD. Anyway, the question as I posed it takes a good part of that bias from McD apologists out of the mix. I think you'd have gotten more honest and therefore accurate answers by asking the question that way. That's all I'm saying. Personally I don't care, it's not like I have an axe to grind or a dog in the fight as it were. I realize that my opinions mean nothing in the grand scheme. I'm just pissing into the wind like everyone else here. LOL It can be a fun distraction to discuss, with people that enjoy discussing. Some take this stuff way too seriously in their lives. : /

To address your "So What?" ... That then depends upon what the purpose of posing the question was. Was it merely to stir up dissent amongst posters? Because as I see it, that's about all that it's done. You're absolutely correct, ... ... which was at the root of my point. So we agree there. And yes, also at the heart of my implications is exactly what else you said .... Well, exactly, which again, feeds into my statement as well. You seem to be unintentionally validating what I said. So allow me to ask, is it reasonable to base our expectations more on "what we do in the playoffs than getting there," or not? Seems to me that for someone answering no, they're likely to be a lot more approving as to whether or not McD has met their expectations, no? Visa versa as well, for someone answering yes, that playoff performance means more, doesn't it stand to reason that they're more likely to claim that McD has not met their expectations? Unless of course being routinely outplayed and ousted in them is their specific expectation that is. I'm a little confused as to the point of your response.

My only problem with the question is that everyone's expectations are different. People simply wanting entertaining football, as some have even said as a standard, will be satisfied. Those of us that sat in the cold for the '90s playoff games walking into the games expecting to win them all, and we did, at home, have a different expectation, one that's at least as lofty as it was back then. Allen > Kelly. To whom more is given, more is expected. A better question would be, Has McDermott done what he's said he would do? McD's expectations were to have won a Championship by now as well. So were mine given Allen. In fact, I dare say, or perhaps ask, how many people responding in this poll as the beginning of the season had the expectation of winning it all this year prior to the season starting? Those people, unless they answered "fell short," aren't being honest. My question would be, ... Have McD & Beane left the team on the field this coming season consistent with their own rhetoric and narratives when they started here, or have they fallen short? If short, then why.

I smell a huge lawsuit coming up if they get rid of him. May be coming anyway.

One of the dumbest things that they could do at 27th is take a WR. The history for WRs being taken that late contributing immediately is miserable. I'm curious what people think as to what our starting LB unit looks like going into this season at the moment? The OL is dicey, but the LB core is non-existent after Milano. He goes down, LMAO, then what? Seriously.

Patrick seems like a decent guy. His brother seems like a complete douchebag unlike Allen's siblings who all seem like a fantastic family. Jackson's not doing his brother any favors PR wise. He seems to be nothing but a ball-and-chain in that regard. I couldn't help but notice that when Brittany got into her little social media dustup that Jackson was right there next to her. Instead of worrying about his social media image, Jackson should take advantage of his brother's wealth and start a business or something instead of validating the narrative of the self-entitled's.

Well, one thing's for sure, that's that we'll know more about the team leadership and coaching after if not during this upcoming season. I'm sure that will spawn some things one way or another and that some questions will be answered.

Too early, OL and now LB easily outweigh the need for a WR so high. I also wouldn't throw Davis under the bus that quickly. Sure, he's a disappointment, his career Catch% is abysmal, so he's not completely reliable. But still, that KC playoff game that I'll refrain from using the idiomatic name for that game, in the '22 playoffs, he was monster and he was one of a a few players that showed up in our playoffs this year in the Miami game. He outperformed Diggs in that game. He had the same yards on half the catches as Diggs vs. Cinci too. Does he drop the ball? He did this year. Maybe that diminishes, who knows, but I wouldn't toss him after one season of the dropsies. 35 of his 48 catches went for 1st-Downs, 2nd on the team. His 1st-Down conversion per catch rate is higher than anyone on the team. For a 4th-Round pick he's doing OK, better than average for most of our other picks. Either way he's got another year, no need to panic and reach for a WR. Besides, do we A, trust Beane to draft a WR worth of a 1st-Round pick late in Round 1? I don't. No WR drafted after 11th overall last year outperformed Davis this past season. From the 2021 Draft, only one WR drafted after 10th overall outperformed Davis over the past two seasons. Amon-Ra St. Brown. From his Draft, 2020, only one WR has more TDs, Jefferson. Only one WR drafted after him has more yards, but that WR has half the TDs. The point is that looking to go Draft for a rookie WR to help us more than Davis does, with the 28th overall pick, despite Beane being Beane on top of it, is a low-odds probability even with the perfect pick. 836 Yards, 7 TDs, and 35 1st-Downs is a lot to discard until you have bird in hand on his replacement as our only regular deep WR. I have a strong belief that he'll improve significantly this coming season. For all of the heat on Davis, he was one of Beane's better draft picks, particularly at the end of the 4th Round. If we had gotten comparable value related to our 1st and 2nd rounders on Beane's watch we wouldn't have the litany of needs that we now have. Also, the past two seasons in the playoffs, four games, he's had 18 catches for 389 Yards, 17 1st-Downs, and 6 TDs. That's a per-game average of 4.5 Catches, 97 Yards, 4 1st-Downs, and 1.5 TDs. I think we can use a player like that. In contrast, the past two seasons, Diggs has had in those same four playoff games, 17 catches for 216 Yards, 8 1st-Downs, and 0 TDs. That's a per-game average of 4 catches, 54 Yards, 2 1st-Downs, and 0 TDs. Compare those two for a moment. I'm not sure I'm willing to ditch Davis' playoff contributions in the playoffs, which are greater than any other WR on the team and probably Diggs plus the next one or two combined. Juts sayin'. Particularly when we struggle to find players to step up come playoff time. Davis is far from our biggest problem in the postseason, in fact, to the contrary. I can excuse a few drops in a relatively meaningless 13 win season otherwise. Diggs' Catch % in those four games ... 58.6%. Davis' Catch % in those four games ... 69.2%

Good catch on Risner. I have no idea why we didn't draft him over Ford back then. He was rated the top pass-protecting T at the time, at least better than Ford. I'm not sure that his career has soared to match expectations, but he's been improving in Denver and from what I've read he's a great pass-protecting G. I'd love to see him next to Dawkins, at least the left side of the line would be in relatively good hands pending on how Morse plays. We need to start looking for a C to replace Morse too. It wouldn't surprise me to see Morse retire unexpectedly. He's a good candidate to be following in Jr. Seau's shoes if he's not more careful. He should start thinking about his future more than another season or two of football. Presumably he (Risner) wouldn't cost a ton, IMO he'd be a fantastic pick-up. I'm sure we won't sign him for that reason. LOL

I'd like to see the Redskins' Hogs or our '90s OL, but that's not going to happen with this GM. It's a better exercise to piece together the OL that we'll have based upon legitimate players on the roster. So based upon who's signed for 2023 ... T: Dawkins, Brown G: Bates, Boettger C: Morse We have no significant depth. Beane said nothing significant in free agency, so nothin' there but more 1 & 2 year cheap signees. Whether we draft an OL-man in rounds 1 or 2, or both, remains to be seen, but I wouldn't bet tomorrow morning's coffee that we will. Beane's got a lot of holes to fill for reasons of his own making. Arguably the most pressing is that we only have one starting caliber LB on the entire roster. Maybe Milano's going to spend the entire offseason with Allen so that he can be the Superman LB this coming season and do on defense what Josh does on offense. Then we don't need anymore and can install our paradigm shattering 4-1-6 or 5-1-5 D. Move over '85 Bears D! LOL ... ahh, what am I thinking, maybe a 7-1-3 so that we can generate a pass rush without blitzing one of our DBs. ... hopefully. LOL

Just warming us up for the batch of 1-year signees on the OL. Don't want to give anyone a heart attack with the news of an OL pick in Round 1 or a 4-year signing of a top OT or anything.

Accurate post. I would add to the whole Von Miller acquisition thing that it was a high-risk high-reward thing, that he was brought in by Beane to cover Beane's inadequacies at producing the same type of player on his own via the Drafts, and hardly for a lack of resources and post-draft statements of assurance either. It was an enormous gamble on Beane's part. Having said that, had it worked out, we'd all have been ecstatic. Most of us would be more than happy to ride off into the sunset with a singular Championship. I know that I would be, I'm not greedy, just one is all I need. None of us are expecting a dynasty and multiple Super Bowl wins as many seem to be underlying the thread question with. It'd be nice and we shouldn't rule it out as long as we have Allen, but as expectations, that's not realistic. As with all things like that though, the Von Miller acquistition, there are benefits and risks. Unfortunately for Beane, and us, we realized the risks, not the benefits. Having said that, we realized the risks, and not the benefits, and Beane needs to be held accountable. But accountability to themselves is not something that the team leadership does well. They talk a good game, but when it comes to themselves, nada. One can only say empty things for so long before people start calling them out on it. It seems that everyone including the national media and NFL fans in general are seeing it, just not a portion of our own fans. It shouldn't have escaped anyone's notice that they're not really using the phrase "The Process" anymore. There's a reason for that. It's worn out its welcome. No one wants to hear after 6 years that they just need to trust. They can't even give us explanations that other coaching staffs do for varying things, "13 Seconds" or this postseason's nonsense as two examples. Here's the thing about this situation, what does it say when head coaches can't figure out what every casual football fan and other coach knows, namely what not to do in the last 13 Seconds of a game under those circumstances. We're not talking about Belichick-like defensive scheming here, we're talking about the simplest of things that high school coaches know. I mean what's the learning curve for that by a coach, for something that everyone knows? For a head coach of 6 seasons? That's a pretty big gap there between a "mistake" and the mountain of understanding that, apparently, needs to be climbed to achieve the team's goals at some entirely unbeknownst time in the distant future. Same for that pathetic defensive display that we got this past postseason. I mean seriously, is that coaching that's "on the cusp" or simply needs more time to learn? LOL To me it seems pretty far from basic competence, not being close to getting us to the promised land. Yet, the defense of it is pretty heavy. Also, it's a pattern. Our 2020 exit from the playoffs, KC posted their best postseason game against us. Wild-card Cleveland and their 21st ranked defense gave KC a better game than we did, with Baker Mayfield and Jarvis Landry and Rashard Higgins as their top-2 WRs. And how long do we wait? Until Allen's time here is spent, either due to his opting out, because of major injury, or otherwise being unable to do what he does due to above-and-beyond abuse that he's taken due to their failure to minimize it while having to compensate for the OL, the RBs, and the coaching. If after a couple more seasons of him having to do everything, if he hasn't paid the price due to injury, then why wouldn't he move on? He wants a Championship too, reasonably so, and he expects what some here are telling us it's unreasonable to expect. Which one of us is going to go into that locker room before this coming season and announce that it's unreasonable to expect us, them, the team, to go to the AFC Championship Game? They'd get thrown out of that locker room faster than a used kleenex into the trash. It's the pattern here coupled with the lack of official explanations that are concerning. Just like everything else, by the time it becomes obvious to enough people to intitiate a change, it'll probably be too late. That's the most unfortunate thing about it. Bickering and arguing about it here isn't going to help though. It's just a place to vent, a place to piss into the wind. LOL We'll simply have to let things play out. No other choice. Or Fouts. San Diego had one of the best offenses in league history during the late '70s and early '80s. They were incredibly entertaining to watch. But San Diego wasted Fouts', Winslow's, Jefferson's, and Joiner's talents during that time. The went to the AFC Championship Game only twice. Fouts was better than Rivers and so was the Charger offense under Fouts.

Well, let's take what you did say then ... They go into every season expecting to win the Super Bowl. I'd say that almost every fan posting here had that expectation going into this past season. We can look up your expectations, I suspect you were among them. But here's the thing, we have to ask ourselves several things. First, are we doing the most and best with what we have? It's a Yes or No question. I don't think that there's a fan or NFL media type out there that would answer "Yes" to that. Would you? I see some negative notations to my posts in which I've asked some key related questions. What I don't see is anyone answering those questions, to their thoughts. The question are objective questions although any answers would be subjective. I'm not angry. Frustrated perhaps, speaking for myself. There's more in life to football for me. My life doesn't revolve around how the Bills do. I have family and things going on. But I'm a fan like everyone else here. I bother to take the time to ask myself the tough questions rather than simply make excuses. It is a business, plain and simple. The owners treat it like one, the coaches and GMs treat it like one, the front office people treat it like one, the players certainly do. So I do as well. As such, I ask myself whether as a paying customer of one variety or another, even if only TV game subscription from afar, or merch, whether I'm getting the most from what I've invested, money perhaps, but more importantly for me, time, precious time. I'll never root for another team and if the Bills were to move I'd be done with the NFL altogether. But in the meantime, I ask myself that tough question. If the answer is no, I begin to consider why not. Here's what I see here in the forums in terms of discussing what's wrong with our team and why it's not making the most of the roster that it has. McD's at fault. But he's excused because Beane hasn't "given him the necessary tools." OK, so Beane's at fault. No, he drafted Allen, and despite lackluster drafts otherwise, that carries him. McD's not doing him a solid. It's Frasier's fault. No, can't be, McD's running the D in reality at the most crucial times, which have cost us our seasons. It's McD's fault then. No, it's Frasier's D. Offensively it's Dorsey's fault for poor play-calling. But McD's in charge, not Dorsey. McD put Dorsey in place. OK, so it's McD's fault. Nope. Dorsey's only working with what he has and Beane hasn't done him a solid. OK, so it's Beane's fault then for not providing good OL-men, WRs, and RBs. Nope, Dorsey's not using them correctly. It's Allen's fault, way too many risky throws into coverage, not taking the short high-percentage stuff. Nope, he's doing the best with what he can. Now Doctor says he can't throw short accurately anyway. So not him. Gotta be Dorsey then. Nope, revert to circular logic above. It never ends. it's no one's fault. Everyone's exonerated. Beane's done a fantastic job with the Drafts despite producing no impact players. McD's a fantastic coach that just needs another decade, or what, the rest of Allen's career, to come around and finally learn well enough so that he too can win a Super Bowl with a much greater QB than many other Super Bowl winning coaches have done. Frasier's been great. Nothing defensively is his fault. The players, well, not an issue since Beane's done such a fantastic job. I mean LMAO, ... But we shouldn't expect that we win the Super Bowl with Allen as our QB. ... if we cannot reasonably have that expectation annually until we do, then what's the point of being a fan. And if it's not happening, again, then why not? I've asked this a number of times and all I get are negative image responses, no one has answered the questions posed as such. I think that once people start asking themselves that question, and start answering themselves honestly, than it'll be clear. People have difficulty doing that however. I'll ask again ... Who was responsible for "13 Seconds"? BTW, something that absolutely no one on the team came clean on. No one. Who was responsible for massive underachievement in our two playoff games this season, again, one of which against a 7th round rookie QB that had never started regularly much less in a playoff game, and who won't ever start regularly in his entire NFL career? Who was responsible for our 2020 playoff loss to the Chiefs in which we allowed 439 Yards, 29 1st-Downs, and 7 Yards-per-Play to the Chiefs in the game where we allowed the second most points all year? It was their best playoff game by a country mile. There are answers. Not everyone wants to admit that. Since it's playoff performances we're discussing here, and as I see it, what most fans are dissatisfied with, it's relevant an has become a hump that we've been unable to overcome. Why? Who's responsible. I don't think anyone's upset, generally speaking, with our regular season performances and records despite issues existing there, and despite off odd games like the Jags game last year for example. What I'm seeing is that most fans are upset by us seeing a different team come the playoffs. The excuses posed there are circular logic too. So back to what you did say, I don't see that the fans were "angry at the Bills organization every year." After 2020 we were understanding and realized that KC was very good. Now it's evident that perhaps they weren't that good but that we helped make them look better. If any fans are "angry" as you put it, I would strongly suggest that it's not because of any single season, but rather at the established PATTERN that has developed of our very much inadequate and underachieving performance in the playoffs, again, now three seasons straight with entirely befuddling and inexplicable reasons why, with a coaching staff and GM that refuse to come clean on any of it. So they can look in the mirror for at least part of the current perceptions as such. They're far from innocent. It's a pattern with no reason to think that it will change.

BTW, were you around then to attend playoff games? I can tell you that there was indeed an expectation that we would win a Super Bowl. In fact, we had a better team than the Giants and even than the Cowboys in the fourth SB. The reason why we lost had little to do with talent available. We easily had the better QB, possibly in all four since Rypien was a statue behind the best OL in the history of the game. You're way off about that statement. We went to games, home, away, on TV, expecting to win every game. That included the Super Bowls.

I think that you're splitting hairs here. Any of us would take a mere one SB win during the Allen era. But what, we're to go into each season, as fans, expecting exactly what then? How do you divide that then, take a Vegas type gamble resign yourself to a specific year in terms of expectations? Otherwise, what I see in your point is that we all expect to win the SB every year that Allen's here, which is ridiculous. Your position implies that we should all simply take what comes and be happy with whatever the outcome. Who are you to impose that standard upon the millions of other Bills fans? Because what I'm reading between the lines here is how so many fans are simply excited to be posting winning seasons and playoff appearances, despite not winning. My point is that there are reasons for not winning, but not changing anything and allowing that opportunity to slip away is a waste. As is said, doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. For fans that are happy with merely making the playoffs and an entertaining regular season, great, fantastic even, but they have no right to impose their standards for expectations upon those what aren't satisfied with simply and and who want more. It's wrong to impose anything like that upon others. Either way, I have no idea how we should expect a singular Championship win without having that hope every season, at least until we do. That's the implication of your statements. How does a fan separate that? Because it's funny, at the beginning of all of the recent seasons here, anyone challenging the notion that cannot win it all is lambasted. That contradicts what you're saying here. Just sayin'. The question is about McD. Has he then met your expectations? That's the question posed.

Since they've been in contention, the question then becomes why they didn't achieve the ultimate prize. I would strongly suggest at looking at the reasons as to why our playoff runs over the past three seasons ended, specifically. As in why did we lose the 2020 KC playoff game, specifically; why did we lose the 2021 playoff game to KC, specifically; why did we underachieve in the playoffs this past 2022 season and nearly lose to a 7th-round QB named Skylar Thompson, who's likely to never start in the NFL for any team ever, and get pounded by a Cincinnati team with 60% of its starting OL out, both games at home. Specifically. What's the common thread there. Many are still in the Denial phase on that, which is fine I guess, it simply doesn't change it. But here's the thing ... Once the Allen-era in Buffalo ends, whether it's because Allen opts out after three more seasons, whether his career is shortened because of injury, or he cannot simply do the jobs of the QB, RBs, OL, WRs, Defense, and coaches all at once after another half-decade or so, if not sooner from being worn out, if we have not won a Super Bowl, much less even been to one, after four straight with Kelly 30 years ago, a fraction of the QB that Allen is, the latter whom is gifted beyond perhaps any QB that's ever set foot on an NFL field, then every true Bills fan is going to be saying that it was an opportunity squandered BIG TIME! That failure is going to make Rex Ryan's failure here look like getting the wrong order with DoorDash. Let's face it, we will in every likelihood never again see a QB that even sniffs how good Allen is. Kelly was good, but not Allen good, and we've had crap in the NFL era otherwise over 50 other years. It's like Herb Brooks told the US Men's Hockey Team in 1980 before the title game against Finland trailing 2-1 after two periods, he told the team, "If you lose this game, you'll take it to your f'ing graves!" I wish Herb Brooks were our coach! It's not too far off of that here. If we don't win a Super Bowl/Championship with Allen, it's not likely to ever happen. Given your sentiment above, there's no argument to that. If we're not going to expect a Super Bowl win now, with Allen, I don't know when we would reasonably expect one. If you ask me, any reasons for this expectation are higher than they will ever be again, and quite reasonably at that. The question is why can't we even have the extent of success of the Kelly/Smith-era teams that went to four straight. That fact that so many don't seem to think that this expectation is quite reasonable is a little disturbing. This team has had 6 seasons to "make progress." We're not progressing, we're diminishing. "The Process" has failed!

It'd be pleasant to be able to watch games with a coach that's coaching your team to the extent that it's obvious what's going on in his mind as it is played out on the field, that it seems like the best approach, and that he's effectively competing with his opposing coaching peers while coming out on top. I don't get that impression. Plenty of high-profile prime-time blunders and incompetent moments corroborate that. It's difficult if not impossible to be satisfied with that given the circumstances otherwise.

LOL, ... same adult world that consistently provides a never-ending string of pressers that never say much of anything or otherwise provide any definitive information, seemingly designed specifically so as to keep things as unclear, murky, and ill-defined as possible. Thanks for asking.

Who's the one(s) making these decisions?

Indeed, which further raises questions as to what's really going on behind the scenes regarding coaching. At the end of the day we simply don't know, McD has never made it clear. I do think that fans are growing tired of this secretive approach yet lacking the required results. Notice we haven't heard much about "The Process" anymore.

No, but he's gone above and beyond in proving that he's unlikeable over the past six or seven years, and to understate it. Anyone that likes Antonio Brown now deserves whatever he dishes out to them when, not if, it comes at them.

Agreed, but people should see beyond this as McD's endorsed this for 6 seasons now, despite it having been problematic in three post seasons now, at least. That's all I'm saying. As you said, they're masters of spin, but this spin only plays so far, even if believed. I simply don't think that McD's the right person for the job going forward. Certainly he knows this D inside and out, and if he cannot affect a change this coming season, then that should be it for him. He shouldn't "need three more seasons" to "install his D.

Quite possibly, but has it ever been made clear, other than in passing remarks during pressers, that LF was really the "brains" behind the D? I'm not sure it has, everything about how this team runs appears to be shrouded in at least some level of secrecy. Either way, 6 years in ...

McD's the one that has kept Frasier on for his full 6 seasons here. It's taken him 6 seasons to figure out what he wants? On top of that he promoted Frasier to Asst. Head Coach halfway through as well. He's passing the buck to a now departed Frasier, deflecting any and all heat away from himself. It makes one wonder if he and Frasier didn't have a discussion to force Frasier to "step away from football for a year" in a completely unprecedented move, with the intent of trying to start deflecting to keep his own job, and apparently, with the decision seemingly being his (Frasier's) to return after the year is up at his pleasure. Just sayin' ...