Beck Water

We can't argue the result (time to throw IS on the high side) but we 100% disagree on the cause. It's nuts to me to believe Josh won't throw unless he sees someone open. He got away from that in 2020, when he learned to throw to the spot even on option routes and trust the WR to choose the same option, which, with Beasley and with Diggs when he and Josh were tight, was usually well-placed trust. Some of Josh's picks last year were because he and the WR weren't reading the defense the same way and he threw it to a place the WR wasn't. Others were because he trusted Gabe Davis to come down with the ball or Diggs to make it "my ball or no one's ball", and his trust was misplaced. I think Josh's time to throw is on the high side because he has that "Brett Favre says touchdowns first, Coach!" mentality and he doesn't want to take the short pass to the open guy, instead he'd rather extend and see if he can find someone open deep on a scramble drill, not because he will only throw to a wide open receiver. All that said - I 100% agree that processing who to throw to given the defense is one of the areas where Josh can really improve.

So for whatever it's worth, Beane and his scouts don't agree with his college profile. Beane said he's great against press and has good moves Now he may be wrong, but that's his evaluation. FWIW, some guys with good eyes like Dan Orlovsky and Chris Simms are enthused PS FWIW this is what Stefon Diggs draft profile said: "Doesn't possess the strength or long speed to make a living as an outside receiver, but he can be an extremely effective weapon from the slot as a pro". That would be news to the Vikes and the Bills.

Brandon Beane is on record disagreeing with you. He says the Bills will use Coleman as an X, starting, like, now. We do have speed on the team. Curtis Samuel ran a 4.3 40 yd dash and is a solid WR. Andy Isabella ran a 4.31 40 yd dash, was drafted in the 2nd round, and has failed to make good as a WR on an NFL team to date. For perspective, Tyreek Hill ran a 4.29 to 4.35 40-time at his pro-day

I don't understand this "Coleman is a big slot" thing at all. 1) I read he played the majority of his offensive snaps at the X in Florida 2) we are already overloaded with guys at WR who are at their best from the slot, why ever would Beane draft a WR with our top pick if he thought he was a slot? 3) Beane has unambiguously said, Coleman will be playing the X in the Bills offense My guess is that the Bills feel that he has the physical tools to refine his route running, because of his basketball background, and that is something they can "coach up" more easily than coaching up reliable hands or the timing to high-point balls. One thing I'm about as positive as I can be is Beane is correct, he plays faster than his combine speed. I could see it in the gauntlet drill at the combine; somewhere it was posted he reached 21 mph by GPS.

He's not, don't worry yourself. He might be giving input, but it's just that - input. Allen said himself "I'd like to think I have input, but really, I don't."

I don't think it's just Allen. Beane is on record saying that the last game you play in a season can really show where your gaps are. In the last game of the season, Diggs fumbled, then missed a catchable deep ball that could have turned the tide of the game. Sherfield also missed a deep ball. Independent of whatever Allen thought, I'm pretty sure a "hands" guy who would come back and go up for the ball and had good ball-tracking skills had to be high on Beane's list and the offensive staff list. If Sherfield makes that catch on the post, and if Diggs hauls in that ball that went right through his hands, the outcome of the KC game could very well have differed. This take is far too rational for this board at this time. Stop Making Sense!!!!

I wanted him too. We had him visit so much, I was sure he was our boy.

Sal Capaccio reported Beane said "no one took their call" to trade up in the 2nd round for Bishop. Will Beane try to trade up in the 4th using 1 or more of our 5th round and later picks? If he tries, will he succeed? I'm not asking much, but Beane, could you please come out of the 5th round with a clone of Puca Nakua?

E Tu, Virgil? Never have liked those "I hope (other team) or (other team player) has way more success than the team or players on team I'm supposedly a fan of"

Well, Denver scratched your itch for ya.

I voted "yes, I like it". It's one of the traits I most like in Beane that he doesn't sit around pissing and moaning about drafting at the bottom of the round each round, or missing a 3rd round pick 'cuz the NFL screwed us on comp picks. Instead, he rolls up his shirtsleeves, maps out a strategy, and figures it out. We started the day picking at the end of the 1st round, no 3rd rounder, and only late round picks. We ended with a 3rd rounder and picking near the top of the 5th, and while TBDians coveted Worthy and Legette, evidently Beane did not so no lost opportunities we would have taken at the end of the 1st. I do think Beane 100% picked for need though. Some combination of BPA and need always, but this year shaded more by need. Always. "Nattering Nabobs of Negativity" have volume.

Nothing says Josh was in on the decision. Just says he was the WR of those left when the Bills picked, that Josh wanted. It would be an assumption that Josh has influence on the draft from what he wants. As he said in his OTA interview "I'd like to think that I have influence on the draft, but really, I don't" Now that said, and I'll ack it if people say "talking out of both sides of my mouth", I would hope Josh has input into what traits he sees missing on the team. Like if he says "I'd like a guy who is open when he's covered and can make those contested catches" or "I'd like a guy with superior ball tracking skills" or "I'd like a fast twitch guy who gets open quickly" or whatever. Same with Brady. But they aren't full time talent evaluators, so let the guys who are decide who best embodies those traits. I think at the bottom of the 1st (which essentially is where we picked), you're not gonna get a perfect, all-rounded, developed receiver. So then it becomes "what traits do you want the guy to come with, and what gaps do you think you can coach up?" This guy has hands, and focus at the catch point. He can make those circus catches with a DB's hand in his face, which is something we just absolutely haven't had. He apparently has field vision to make moves after the catch, and strength to go through people for an extra yard or two when needed. What he doesn't have is refined route running and refined release moves. The Bills evidently believe they can coach that up, more easily than they can coach up a refined route runner to become a focused, contested catch guy. So we'll see.

I think those are words any guy can use. I don't think he's an "NFL insider" in the sense of someone like Adam Schefter or Ian Rapoport etc someone with genuine connections to NFL players' agents and FO personnel. I think he's a "wannabe" Doesn't mean he might not have legit heard something, we have guys here who hear things. Yep at this point, pretty much every team has passed on him 3x. Couple teams have passed on him more.

Looked at his twitter profile and at the link he provided in that. I would say he's a "wannabe" insider, not someone who is genuinely plugged in. https://johnfrascellasports.blogspot.com/2022/10/archive-of-john-frascellas-sports.html?m=1 Still, there are guys everywhere who hear something or know something.

Um....if Josh's contract is up, he does not have to ask for a trade. If a player's contract is up, they are a free agent. I don't think outworking Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen (he's out of football, right?) is the standard we want our hoped-for Champion QB to aspire to. But I understand your point about work ethic

What is the injury? As for size, didn't stop Worthy from going in the first Edit: found this, but it doesn't help too much https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/troy-franklin/34981

Not with a 3rd round grade, apparently I think there are guys who play football because it's their clearest path to making big money It's one of the things that makes the top rounds of the draft such a crap shoot. I'm sure you've noticed, there isn't really a lot of disagreement about who the top college guys are at different positions. Maybe the order they're in, but not who the top 3-5 players are. But then they don't all live up to their talent. Sometimes it's injury, but even if a guy has a good background and is reasonably grounded, handing a kid in his early 20's millions of bucks overnight can have unpredictable effects on his work ethic and dedication.

The Bills spent a lot of time with Franklin, apparently. Maybe they had a poor first impression and wanted to see if he'd get comfortable with them and come across differently?

I can not disagree with this take. And McKenzie, though they did bring in Crowder as competition. But you know, the draft ain't over, and the season won't start the day after the draft, so... I'm starting to wonder just WTF Franklin did though. Did he lease a Lambo? Show 'tude during interviews? Flunk out at the whiteboard? Welp, Then

Where did I say that was my expectation?

Well.....it depends upon what you mean by that Overall the odds are something like 20-30% (higher at the top of the round, lower at the bottom But they're not that much higher in the bottom of the 1st/top of the 2nd Beane's 3rd round picks: Harrison Phillips - struggled with us possibly due to injuries, 34 starts in 2 seasons for Vikes Devin Singletary - 4 year starter for us, 898 yds on 10 starts for Houston last season. Solid. Zach Moss - didn't start for us but 11 starts and 22 games for the Ponies, 794 yds last year Spencer Brown - 41 starts including all 17 last season, Solid Terrel Bernard - looked like a terror last season after rough rookie outings Dorian Williams - to be determined, see Bernard, Terrel I would say Beane's record in the 3rd round is pretty durn good - every one of the guys we have more than a year of data on can play ball. Not stars of stars, but can play. 3 of the 6 we have adequate data on have been starters for us, 2 more hit their stride for other teams.

Yeah, I'm seeing that as a theme. This guy: 3 year team captain, scholar-athlete award in the ACC. Safety Bishop, they said he's a leader, you hear him getting the DBs into position.

You guys should start a "Bad Takes" festival and sell tickets for $2 a pop. Round these parts, you might make book enough for a Tall Flat White at Starbucks. Better go for the decaff espresso.

You Sure?