Beck Water

Well, Yes, actually. They could be worse than Brown.

Oh, Man! Sad news for a guy who showed a lot of heart.

Well, couple if things if your take on the dynamic is correct. First is, if Rodgers is their bright new shiny whose presence will lift them to the playoffs, what happens if he falters as he did at times last season? Rodgers had 5 games where he passed for less than 200 yards last season, no games where he passed for more than 300 yards, and in the game where he came closest (291 yds in a loss to Detroit) he threw 3 interceptions. Second is, if Rodgers is like a God and the coaches are looking up to him, what if he needs some hard coaching or a kick in the butt? Who kicks God in the butt?

Well, that might depend upon what argument, exactly, you're trying to make. I started out reacting to this post of yours: You went on to suggest that just about any guy who can thump could play MLB for the Bills: To the first, I understood your argument to be that the Bills haven't done more to address MLB because they believe, like you, that the MLB is the least important guy on the defense. He's just the communication relay who calls out the play to the D and then the "sponge" who mops up the debris by finishing the business the other players have directed his way, if I'm understanding you. I don't agree that McDermott and Beane think the MLB is the "least important player on defense". They don't think it's the most important, clearly; McDermott insists on a solid DL rotation and Beane spends the most, positionally, on secondary followed by DL. But that's in large part a "numbers game", having 4 DL on the field at all times and 5 CB. It doesn't mean the LB and especially the MLB is the "least important". We have some guys here who have forgotten more ball than I'll ever know, but I think this 'guy who runs around in the middle and makes tackles because the guys all around the perimeter have forced the play to the inside" you write represents a tremendously naive idea of the MLB's role and responsibilities. He has to choose the correct play variant for what the offense shows immediately pre and then post snap and cue the rest of the team to react. If he's late in making that read or fuzzy in communicating it, there will be defensive breakdowns. He has to read the run play and choose the correct gap to defend, but yet not get "sucked in" by play action. Some of these were areas Edmunds struggled with early in his career and got rightly called out here! The MLB needs to be an aggressive tackler, sure, but to do that, the MLB needs to understand where he should be to position himself to make that tackle. And then there's pass defense, and in McD's defense, ideally the MLB has a huge role in zone pass defense which means understanding how his coverage responsibility shifts and re-shifts with different route choices the receivers show post-snap. Gone are the days when the NFL MLB was a big gimondulous beast of a see-ball-get-ball thumper, true, but that hardly means the importance is gone. So only this year's acquisitions and only making moves to sign players from OUTSIDE the team count as "something". Re-signings, extensions and last year's moves don't count. Got it. There was a time when Pittsburgh had the "best" linebackers, "Linebacker U". And in that day, the philosophy was draft in the mid-rounds, and take 3 years to develop. And Beane has a habit of drafting for potential, even in the high rounds - higher ceiling, lower floor guys. Edmunds was an example! The point I was trying to make is this: Beane is like a poker player. He has ideas of how he wants to build his winning hand, but he also reacts to what cards are available and what the other players show. There are times when he has a position, or a position group, that he doesn't invest as many resources as he could or perhaps should. But that doesn't mean the position or position group isn't important, it just means the cards for that hand didn't fall his way, so he did what he could with what was available. My analogy was OL last season (where except for Saffold, he stayed pat) and slot receiver (where you might say the only thing he did was acquire Crowder and draft a 5th round pick who would be a long shot to consider this season; he also re-signed McKenzie and brought in Tavon Austin). It's not that Beane thinks OL or slot are the "least important on offense". It's that he has to build a team, not acquire the best player at every position. So some positions get what he hopes is "enough". If someone they thought was a brilliant potential slot fell to them in the draft or was available in FA, would they have invested the resource? I would say "yes". I would say the same thing about a prospect they thought was "all that and a bag of chips" in FA or draft for what they want at MLB. But that didn't happen, and he had other team needs to address. OK, I guess that's a long winded spiel for you to respond "I'm making your argument for you" again, but I don't think I can be any clearer. TL;DR: the amount of resources Beane puts into a specific position or position group in a specific off-season or draft, does not indicate either his perception of that position's importance to McDermott and the Bills or its importance in the modern NFL. Peace out.

Obviously you'll have a lot of support for that POV here at TBD and if I take a more moderate position, experience suggests I'll be painted as a fan-boy. I just don't think it's logical to suggest that a 5'7", 173 late-round pick stays in the league 6 years unless there's more to him than fun-loving gadget guy (or the coaches are mysteriously building a winning, contending team by being stupid, which is another popular viewpoint here at times, but I digress) . I think the truth is more nuanced. At times, none of the things you say were true, except the hands; he did body-catch balls consistently. He made tough catches sometimes. He tracked the ball and got there sometimes. He ran solid routes sometimes. He made the catch in traffic sometimes. And he understood the game. At different times, all of the things you say were true. I wouldn't say "not cerebral" (again, you don't have a 5'7" 173 lb guy in the NFL for 6 years if he doesn't have a head for the game). I would say "lost focus" (at bad times. In the end, you're right, he wasn't 'enough' as a starting player, not because he couldn't do any of those things, but because he couldn't become consistent at doing them. That's not uncommon for lower-tier guys who work their way up to a shot to start. They got that shot because they COULD do those things. Some make good; some lose that shot because they can't do the things they can do, consistently. It's like Fitzpatrick at QB. At times, he could make those jaw-dropping throws. Then there were the pick-6s thrown at the worst possible time. Not consistent enough. The thing is, I think many of those things have been said of Andy Isabella - not a good or consistent route-runner, doesn't catch well in traffic, body-catches, doesn't track the deep ball well - but never, for whatever reason, got used as a gadget guy either. So we'll see. Maybe he will be that guy who gets his 3rd chance and makes good.

I dunno. In the past, McDermott has used his media sessions to fire a "shot across the bows" to send a message to a player or group of players on more than 1 occasion. How effective "coaching by media interaction" might be, I don't know, but in this instantly-connected media age, I can see it being useful if it becomes clear that what coaches say to the player is getting put through some kind of internal spin and coming out from the player to the media as different. I thought in his comments to Katherine Fitzgerald, Dodson was either being disingenuous or clueless. If a player is losing it in practice, and is drawing the attention of his position coach, his head coach, the director of player personnel, then after practice the head trainer and the director of player engagement, I don't think it's "everything is OK". I think they're concerned. Hopefully this is all pre-emptive concern to nudge things onto the right track before they run too far off and to set a standard at least one player is capable to reach. Not "helmet gate" per se, but everything around it

That was my impression. If Queen were all that and a bag of chips at LB, why would the Ravens have traded a 2nd and 5th for the privilege of signing Smith to a record-setting contract? But Smith is a 'rising tide' and they say it lifts all boats.

One of the Deep Mysteries of Life to me: how Dorsey could say, with a straight face, that Allen and Barkley graded out about the same. The only thing I can think of is using some kind of "do your job" grading system, where if the OL lets a rusher through right away for a sack, that doesn't count against the QB. But when the QB's reaction to said sack is to throw up a jump ball 6 yds behind the LOS with defenders in the area, I would think that still needs to count against him. Ditto when the reaction to a busted screen play is to throw off-target past an onrushing defender and with others in the area (the pick) Dirt that puppy or throw it out of bounds. Disagree, and actually Allen said as much - that the receiver got "hung up a bit" and he either needed to "get it to him or get it in the dirt". I think the fact that the Bills have 4 WR with a very similar physical type on their roster (Shorter, Shavers, Ateman, Patman) says they really want one of them on the 53. Which is why I didn't think Isabella had a shot. But McDermott et al are making me second guess myself.

Not to mention Gesicki listed as a WR.

Well, this amused me greatly Juju SS is fresh off a 977 yd, 77.2% catch% season with the Superbowl champions. That's not a fluke, he has 3 similar seasons, though he's probably more a "good #2" than a #1. Davante Parker was solid last year in NWE. Gesicki was a solid >50 receptions, 700 yd guy for 3 years in Mia before McDaniel got there. Maybe if they all meet in NE and stink, stank, stunk *whispers* maybe the problem is not the receivers

OK, I actually googled this and got nothing. What is "a spotlight girl"? What does that mean?

we may have this upthread but Tomlin was kind of cagey about how much his starters would play

Here's an article on them. McGhin has been in Bills training camps 2x, and has been on practice squads and in the XFL since. Barrow is a rookie UDFA https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-bring-back-former-ol-for-workout-after-brandon-shell-retires/ar-AA1fknvX Neither was signed. It may take until roster cutdowns for someone to free up who the Bills want to look at.

He. Was. Signed. As. A. Backup. it's kind of normal to go through other team's discards to see if you can find a better backup, especially in case of injuries or retirement. Until cutdown day, the other term for discards is "guys competing for a roster spot on Team X"

Right, but in the case of Shakir and Shorter - the draft position is exactly the same. That was the question - why was Shakir being kind of overhyped last preseason, while Shorter is not being talked about and kind of talked down. Since they were both taken in the 5th, the talk may be related to what they showed in TC/preseason. I remember a lot of chatter about how smooooooth and natural Shakir's routes looked and how he had nice soft hands.

I think it's absolutely on-topic. Beane has not made a secret of valuing positional versatility at backup OL positions. I don't think Van Demark is competing with Anderson. I think they usually keep 9 OL: RT, LT, 2 swing tackles (one who can play as a 6 OL). Then starting IOL and 2 backups, one of whom can play C. Heck, the Bills have Anderson listed as a T. So if Anderson is getting a lot of work at C and some at G, he may very well be one of the 2 backup G. If he could play T in a pinch as Bates can, so much the better. The guy he's competing against is Greg Mancz, who under- impressed me last season. What have you seen from him? I'm right in thinking that Van Demark is strictly a T, right? I get him mixed up with Van Roten who was our 3rd string C last season and not invited back.

Well, I could be wrong but....I thought last off- and pre-season, Shakir was flashing quite a lot, and drawing a lot of mentions. Have not heard much out of Shorter. I think that influences the expectations.

Well, I think some would argue that by drafting LB in the 3rd round in back to back drafts, by re-signing AJ Klein as a FA, and by re-signing Tyrel Dodson this spring, Beane did take a shot at filling a perceived hole at LB. You can toss in Baylon Spector as a late round flyer and Travin Howard as a talented, but oft-injured free agent as part of his "taking a shot at filling a perceived hole". That seems to be 4-6 "shots on goal", not nothing. It's actually the same type of shots Beane took with regard to filling the hole at slot receiver last season IMO - he had a guy on the team who had shown flashes but also shown need for improvement (McKenzie), he drafted a receiver they liked in the later rounds (Shakir), he signed a free agent who had shown the ability to play decently from the slot at times (Jameison Crowder). How do you see Beane's need-filling efforts at LB as substantively different from last season's need-filling efforts at slot WR? If Beane felt slot receiver wasn't a priority position, why had he signed Beasley in 2020? If Beane felt MLB isn't an important position, why did he throw a 1st round pick at Edmunds in 2018?

why do people engage with this Air dude? Leaving out David Edwards started every game for the Rams in 2021 (superbowl year). He had concussion issues last season, but he seems to be OK now. First year started 10 games at RG, since then 35 starts at LG. Leaving out Bates, who has played LG but is competing at RG ATM Leaving out Boettger, who started 7 games on what I thought was a better OL in 2020 and 10 on what turned out OK as an OL in 2021 - but has looked like a shell of the former Stallion so far - but the Bills didn't know that going into preseason But other than those guys and a couple PS holdovers like Alec Anderson, McGovern has had no competition. Naturally, every other team brings in a couple of all-pros as backups to compete at every position on the line. 😆 I think maybe more. Strip sacks and stuff.

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that the journalists put in requests for which players they'd like to interview They don't always get who they ask for, the player has to agree and the Bills can turn it down, point is it's not just the Bills deciding who to put out there. Source for this is someone high in TBN sports media

Plausible take overall. I don't think we can keep 7 WR. When we did that before, we did it at the expense of a 3 TE. If we want a TE to be a significant part of the gameplan, we'd best have at least 3, and Morris has been doing a good camp. I don't see what Shorter has done to fight for a spot. We'll see on Saturday I guess. And because Shakir has shown flashes on actual Sundays, I don't think we give up on him yet. It's not impossible that all the Isabella talk from McD is tactical, and there in part to put a fear-o'-whupass into Shakir and get him to elevate, just as some speculate the MLB talk from McD is there to send a messsage to Dodson. I think Shorter is going to wind up on IR and we'll keep 2 out of Shavers, Ateman, Patmon on PS if we can - trying to read the tea leaves Ateman and Patmon may have the edge over Shavers.

OK, so the Bills posted these highlights on their web page now. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-taylor-rapp-diving-interception They also have some stills of this. #37 38 39 if the links don't work https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#4d7d51f1-2c1c-4a0a-b730-381769b81e7a https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#b15e2b6b-3d8f-4b64-86e6-5fba9a7b42cf https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#10395155-a36b-47bc-b5d3-e88f1da32c0c Gilliam just walks away, but you can see where the D is rocking the party and another offensive player might throw a little opinion in there. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-josh-allen-connects-with-deonte-harty-for-the-long-touchdown bonus Gabe Davis TD https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-josh-allen-connects-with-gabe-davis-for-a-touchdown Twas. It's on the Bills website now.

I'd like to re-frame this for you slightly - and maybe I should say up front that while I'm the one who entered the tweets about McDermott's comments into today's thread, it was in the spirit of helping my fellow Bills fans find coverage, not because I'm in MLB panic mode. Beane does attempt to fill needs, true. But he knows, with cap limitations and a limited number of picks, he can't fill every need with the same quality of players. He's talked about he and the coaches "valuing" positions and players after the season - that means adjusting, based upon experience, what priority they put on each position as far as draft resources and cap $$. And sometimes he makes mistakes. He acknowledged after the fact that he could have and should have done more for the OL in 2018. I think if you gave him a few whiskeys, he might admit that the OL and WR we took into last season were not as good as he expected pre-season. On OL, we were counting on Brown to take a 2nd season step and on Saffold to return a bit closer to the form he had with Kromer in 2018 or so. Did Not Happen. At WR, he was counting on one of McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir to seize the day and take over in the slot (or give capable slot play by committee); he was counting on Davis to build on his 2021 season. Did Not Happen. So there Beane sits, with a pile of needs and a pile of resources that's too small to fill them all at a high level, and a need to prioritize and make decisions. I think it's pretty clear that Beane and the rest of the Bills Brain Trust decided that the priority this off-season would go to upgrading receiver and OL, and after that DL. Now we may disagree with what he did - we may think that a rookie TE taken in the 1st isn't likely to be as immediately impactful as we hope, that Hardy was a risky high-ceiling low floor move because of his injury history, and that O'Cyrus Torrence in the draft and McGovern and Edwards in FA aren't enough on the OL. We may side-eye the age at safety. Maybe the moves he made to fill his priorities weren't the right ones. Time will tell. But at MLB, I don't think Beane thought he "had the position covered" any more than he thought he had a good OL in 2018. But he hoped he had enough to get by. I think, like last year at WR, he hoped that between 2 3rd round picks, a backup yearning to start, and a canny vet, he'd have enough. And I do agree with - was it you, Shaw? I forget - the viewpoint that perhaps the Bills were hoping for Bernard to take a step he hasn't shown yet, physically and mentally. But just as in 2022 with WR, I don't think Beane doesn't see a need at MLB. I just think he couldn't do everything, and he hopes he's done enough.

How did this lady get that video? It's like from field level at practice.

Dude, that's simply not a reasonable summary of what I wrote. You Do You, but you can do it without further attention from me. ToodaLoo!