Generic_Bills_Fan

You wouldn’t need a knee…it was 2 sneaks maximum. Minny had one timeout and there were 40ish seconds left. You are completely misunderstanding the situation. If you are throwing the football there you would need more than 2 plays because josh would likely be throwing the ball away

I’m with you man I just don’t understand it. I don’t even see how a sneak could theoretically lose a half yard without the snap being bad. In a shotgun snap the snap could be bad and you open yourself up to all kinds of other risks not to mention you probably need to run more plays because josh would be throwing incompletions you could rag doll the qb instantly at the line of scrimmage on a sneak and carry him into the locker room and they’d stop it for forward progress before it lost a half yard lol the qb takes the snap moving forwards and getting pushed from behind

Looks like it got back to the line to me…there’s no chance it lost even close to a half yard. That was not a traditional sneak by any means regardless. I think people are getting confused that making it here was not losing a half yard…when we normally talk about sneaks failing it’s because they didn’t gain a yard/half yard. If you completely reversed the qbs momentum immediately and drove him backwards I dont even think that could cause a half yard loss. heck stopping a sneak from gaining a yard is tough when you know it’s coming…can’t even believe we pulled that miracle off I’ve been looking for one I’m not blindly trying to prove a point lol I think a sneak losing a half yard has gotta be a 1000/1 chance or higher

explain why you disagree. Show me a sneak that has lost a half yard in nfl history and maybe you’ll swing me. I don’t see how a play that has a 99.9% chance of being successful can be a panic move. Minny had one timeout…it was two plays to not lose a half yard. i see the titans game being brought up but that was not a traditional fall forwards sneak and josh still got back to the line which would’ve been more than good enough yesterday If you throw there…you have the same snap risk, you have a tipped ball/int risk, you have the inherent risk that you aren’t stopping the clock if you throw it away 3 times, you have a holding penalty in the end zone being a safety risk,you have an intentional grounding risk.

I honestly feel like I’m taking crazy pills on this one lol can someone point me to a sneak losing a half yard in nfl history? And that includes years where you couldn’t push the qb from behind coaching overall for the game sure flame away…but questioning the sneak call is a little ridiculous imo.

That ‘all they had to do’ part is a nearly impossible task nowadays lol. You could not legally have a player pushing from behind to help the qb in the game against the titans. Not to mention, watch that play again and look at the offensive formation. That was not a traditional qb sneak by any means. It was as much a trick play as a qb sneak. Allen takes the snap and does not immediately fall forward with momentum. double not to mention, if that exact result happened here we would’ve been fine because we didn’t need to GAIN yards. We needed to not lose a half yard and Allen got back to the line on that play. so you have literally provided zero evidence of a sneak type play in the history of josh Allen that lost yardage even with a fumbled snap you can literally fumble a snap on any play Are you implying they only fumbled the snap because they were running a sneak? Heck Kirk cousins got stepped on twice immediately after snapping the ball in this very game on non sneak plays which is a risk that doesn’t exist on a qb sneak because the quarterback immediately falls forward.

Idk if it makes me feel better or worse now that we have a working theory lol even if he got stonewalled up the middle immediately I severely doubt they’d get him behind the los. That feels like a mental error and a physical error now 😂

I really don’t think people can even wrap their heads around how bad of a beat it was because everyone was angrily questioning the call in the moment 🤣. Not getting 0 yards on a sneak with the push from behind now being allowed is pretty much impossible. this was like the worst beat of all time…pushing way into a team recovering consecutive onside kicks and scoring two late tds type territory which I don’t know if it’s even actually happened lol That would be an interesting debate lol mathematically I am definitely not sure though admittedly. I remember when it ended up looking clear minny recovered praying it was a td 😁

I stand by my opinion that it was the second worst outcome with the worst being a fumbled snap recovered by the Vikings that wasn’t recovered in the end zone 🤣 no way were we pulling off a goal line stand again heck I would’ve just tossed Jefferson into the end zone on that catch that got them down to the 1 and the bills almost made me look stupid for a second lol

The more I think about it the more I’d side with you on this one. Josh saw that single coverage to Davis and went for the td there and I’m sure some of it had to do with the general confidence (or lack thereof) that the offense has in slamming the ball in on a first and goal

I was not at all accusing you of starting it for the record. Its just very ‘what came first the chicken or the egg’ trying to assign blame in this one because so much went wrong. If I were forced to pick one I’d blame the coaches for not attempting a fg on that 4th and 2 which is an opinion I had presnap there. maybe you would not be one of them and I applaud you for that but people would’ve been screaming after a 4th down throwaway

The only worse outcome than what happened was a fumble that minny recovered not in the end zone. If we got safetied you could be correct that the defense wouldn’t hold up but the odds of losing yardage on a sneak (assuming you don’t fumble the snap) has gotta be 10,000 to 1. there were a lot of initial hot takes about how we shouldn’t have snuck it and so on which made it seem that a sneak in that situation is difficult but it really isn’t at all. Your qb is falling forwards with momentum while getting pushed from behind gaining 0 yards is darned near a statistical certainty just based on physics lol

I’m with you partially that there’s more to blame than the offense but sneaks are 88% successful when you need to GAIN yards. We could’ve gotten back to the line for no gain and been fine. Heck we could’ve gotten safetied and maybe been ok…that’s what made the win percentage so high. Your logic on this part of your explanation is entirely flawed but I’m partially with you on the general point losing yardage on a sneak in this new age where you can get shoved from behind is just about impossible

Watch the play again…I am a masochist and have been watching it all day lol. It’s perfectly drawn up to counter the Vikings defense and Davis has a step on single coverage with no safety help because the safety took the inside crossing route. Josh just threw an absolutely terrible ball… it’s nearly unfathomable that that play ended in an interception that is the classic you throw it to the back of the end zone and your receiver probably has a td or the ball is incomplete. If Davis runs a better route he is wide open for the game winner but I think he was worried the safety wouldn’t bite as hard. it was a straight up routine play against man coverage…he should’ve probably taken an easier option sure but if you don’t trust your qb to get that throw where it needs to go he shouldn’t be starting. The window for that ball to get into to only give Davis a chance at the catch was huge

This is all kind of a meaningless exercise as there were tons of people you can point the finger at…I think everyone is right here lol

The singletary fumble resulted in 0 points for us too though? Lol a bit of selective logic going on on both sides here. Without the power of hindsight would you really be happy he threw the ball away on 4th down? I find that incredibly hard to believe

You’re kind of proving the persons point you’re responding to imo. Yes he had chances to win the game and blew them and he should be the guy stepping up there, but there were tons of blown opportunities on both sides of the ball making all that necessary too. also blaming him for the 4th down int is going a little far imo…if he threw the ball away there y’all would be screaming about it

He absolutely should’ve taken a safer option but I’ve watched the play 400 times now and Davis had a step in single coverage and that is a straight up routine play against man coverage that 95/100 times ends in a td or incompletion out the back of the end zone. If Davis runs a better route there he’s wide open. The decision wasn’t as bad as it looked from the broadcast angle but the throw itself missed its target badly. The panic in Harrison smith is kind of funny/sad to watch…the Vikings got outschemed badly on that play. He thought he’d turn around and Davis would be wide open with the ball in his hands and did this last second desperation dive to break it up after he took the inside receiver and the ball was going to the outside receiver Caught them with their pants down and shot ourselves in the foot with the execution

The standard hasn’t lowered at all…it hasn’t been pretty but if we were reasonably healthy on the defensive side we would be 9-0 right now and we have a lot of impact players that should be returning to the lineup down the stretch . Come playoff time the expectation is still the Super Bowl. Someone should’ve told the Vikings that yesterday then if it’s that clear 😂. Seemed like their gameplan down the stretch of regulation and ot yesterday was to get no pressure, leave everyone open, let josh do whatever he wants with his legs, give his first read a step against single coverage on back to back plays to the end zone and pray for a drop/bad throw. there’s certainly issues to address going forward but that might be the flukiest loss I’ve ever seen

They were not ready for it lol he’s full of sh*t. the Vikings were outschemed badly on that play even if the ball was required to go to Davis. Peterson was likely beat for the game winner but the throw was horrendous. If Davis runs a better route he’s wide open for the game winner leaving the two first reads on the play more or less open on back to back plays for tds after allowing 60 josh Allen rushing yards certainly shows no evidence that they have some secret recipe for stopping josh Allen lol the Vikings are gonna watch the film and know they got away with one with that final play

I think we have a bunch of captain hindsight’s here 😂. Now that I slept on it and have a clear head a sneak is far and away the safest play and it’s not particularly close. I can’t recall if the titans game was officially a called qb sneak but it should still be safe to say that sneaks are successful for us well over 90% of the time when we have to GAIN yards. And now you can have a player behind the qb pushing so it should work at an even higher percentage and we didn’t even have to gain yards. We just had to not lose more than a half yard on two consecutive plays. Heck even a safety on the second sneak attempt likely would’ve been fine. An intentional safety on the first play though would’ve preserved a timeout for them so I don’t think that was really an option. The odds of us losing the game the way we did were astronomically small which is a fact I think people just haven’t really wrapped their heads around yet the play I would absolutely flame the coaching staff for is not taking that fg earlier in the second half

Toney did virtually nothing against Tennessee and the vast majority of that came against jax so I’d take those results with a grain of salt lol hines made a couple huge plays in the return game that will fly way under the radar for most. I’d give him some time

I feel like there was a game losing play like that a couple years back with Davis too against the ravens…very similar route where he didn’t run at the appropriate angle and just kind of drifted

Geez I didn’t even see Morris haha I’ve gotta watch again. I was focused on Davis. Davis had a step that whole play and the throw was godawful. If you freeze it just as the ball is released and showed it to 100 people that missed the game I don’t think one of them would guess interception knowing he’s going to Davis lol probably one of the worst throws of his career…he missed his window by about 12 yards the absolute worst result that should’ve been possible on that play was an incompletion out the back of the end zone but we are clearly masters of the impossible

I don’t think it’s all on Dorsey…the execution has just been horrible at times. The singletary fumble was maddening…and that final int maddening as well. We were quick to blame Dorsey for not providing more underneath routes but I have watched that play 50 times now talking about the game with some friends and it honestly worked to perfection. josh could’ve either waited and hit singletary sneaking out after the block for a 5 yard gain…or thrown a not terrible ball to Davis and most likely had a td but it should’ve been at worst an incompletion. The stacked crossing routes worked as intended as the middle safety followed the inside crosser leaving Davis in single coverage with Peterson with a step. Josh threw such a bad ball that it looked like Peterson jumped the route but it was a very routine play against man coverage for josh. The back middle of the end zone was open and he missed it by a mile. If we don’t have confidence in him to make that throw then he shouldn’t be starting honestly. heck even the sneak wasn’t a bad call…what are the odds your 6’5” wrecking ball qb is gonna lose more than a half yard on a sneak with the new rules where he can get pushed from behind. Slim to none