CincyBillsFan

Look I admit I'm an Allen fan and I would hate to see the kid driven out of Buffalo due to the insane and ignorant expectations of a small but vocal part of the fan base and a bigger but even more ignorant segment of the Western NY sports media but pointing out the absurdity of treating 300 yard passing games as something special is NOT making a "lame excuse". And sorry but all you have to do is watch a day of NFL football to appreciate the Bill's utter lack of play makers on Offense. IMO, the ONLY Bills offensive guy that opponents defenses game plan for is Allen. Who do you think the Bill's defensive coaches game planned for against Cleveland today? I bet Baker Mayfield was #4 or #5 after Landry, OBJ, Chubb and even Hunt. That you guys see this as making excuses is strange to me.

YES. As others have noted Brown & Beasley are having excellent seasons and the Bills are winning. And the draft is packed with great, impact receivers. As an aside, I believe that if Allen was behind center for the Browns and Mayfield was QBing the Bills the final score would have been Cleveland 34 Buffalo 13. IMO Mayfield under performed given the talent at wide out and in the back field he has.

Exactly right. Hell on one play they pitched the damn ball to Gore on a sweep. What the hell is that? It's like putting in a tackle eligible player and calling his number on a deep throw. It makes no sense. My problem with today is I couldn't for the life of me figure out what Daboll was trying to do offensively. Now to be fair part of this was due to a D which allowed Cleveland to many long drives and couldn't get off the field. There were some LONG stretches in the 1st half between possessions for our offense. It's hard to get into any kind of rhythm under these circumstances. But 41 attempted passes and less then 15 called running plays seemed unbalanced in a close, one score game.

I think this is fair. While Allen and the offense were off at times their biggest problem was that they again missed out on 2 or 3 possessions because the D couldn't get the Browns off the field. While everyone is raving about the great goal line stand, and it was impressive, the Browns had two long drives that devoured a big chunk of the 1st half. And while those two drives only yielded 3 points you can't ignore that they kept the O off the field, robbed us of at least 2 extra first half possessions and made it more difficult for an already shaky O to get into a rhythm. And again the D did not force a turnover. That dropped INT cost the Bills about 35 yards in field position. We know the O is weak and that this team depends on the D. But that goes beyond holding the other team to 19 points and then crying because the O couldn't score 20 points. It also means forcing TO's and putting our O in position to score points. After 9 games we have only forced TWO TO's in opponents territory and only ONE TO in the opponents red zone. This offense needs all the help it can get. Given that the payroll & talent are concentrated on the D this is a reasonable expectation. And finally, given how this team is structured to have a strong D, I don't care how anemic the O has been or how many FG's we miss when we have a 4 point lead with less then 6 minutes left in the game and the opponent is on their own 18 yard line WE SHOULD WIN THE DAMN GAME.

First off this obsession with 300 yard passing games is nuts IMO. QB's not getting anywhere close to 300 yards won 9 games today. While QB's throwing for over 300 yards lost 4 games. Only 1 of the QB's who threw for over 300 yards won their game. The quote from Bleacher Report is absurd. Did the guy watch the game? How many open targets did Allen miss today? I count 2 - Brown on the 4th down and McKenzie on the long pass. BTW, did anyone else think McKenzie looked like he was running in sand and actually slowed down on that play? So on 41 attempted passes he missed 2 open guys - not bad. Allen hooked up nicely with Beasley & Brown multiple times but like Bleacher Report notes neither of these guys are spectacular - which is part of the Bill's offensive problem. We don't have a single reliable game breaker. After watching OBJ & Landry can there be any doubt of this? As for Singletery what is Bleacher Report talking about? He only got 8 carries so how the hell is Allen supposed to benefit from the "life" he's giving to the running game?

Really? Sure these things are important for YAC but the plays that have the most potential to ring up HUGE YAC are screen passes. Before the Redskins game the Bills had attempted 16 screen passes and gained 34 yards. I challenge you to show me where Allen's throws IN ANY WAY negatively impacted those plays? If you want big YAC then throw a ball behind the LOS like the Giants did and let Barkley take it for 70 YAC. Or the screen Allen threw to Motor that gained about 45 YAC. I maintain that YAC is most impacted by the skill players ability to make a move and/or break tackles. Yes, putting the ball in the right place helps but is not the difference maker. And after the individual skill player, the willingness to run screen plays well sets up all kinds of YAC. And here the O-line is critical because the screen depends on the O-line first selling it and then blocking for it in space. I keep hearing people talk about QB's "throwing the WR open". Allen does this several times a game when he fits the ball into tight windows and throws before the receiver makes his cut. And except for rare instances these plays don't generally produce much YAC. WR's create YAC by FIRST creating separation and then by making a move or breaking a tackle.

Fair point but IMO Allen's "unimpressive" stats are a direct result of: * The style of game the Bills play. Once they get the lead the Bills primary job is to protect it. They downshift the offense. Even in their 2 losses the Bills were not blown out. There has not been a game this year where the Bills needed to abandon their conservative game plan in order make up a huge points deficit. In fact going back to Allen's post injury starts from last year and you see the same pattern. Even last years NE loss wasn't a blowout loss. * A completely revamped offense in which 9 of 11 starters are new. * A lack of explosive, big play offensive skill players. The injury to Motor removed the only big play RB on the roster for 5 games. The WR's have been upgraded with dependable guys that can make clutch catches but would anyone confuse Beasley & Brown for game breakers? The Bills still get very little pass catching production out of their TE's, particularly compared to most NFL teams. The FACT remains that the Bills are a few missing pieces away from having an explosive stable of skill players. By next year I suspect that when needed Allen and the Bills offense will be able to throw the ball for 350 yards and win a shootout. However that will NOT be the preferred game outcome for the Bills. They will be fine with winning games 17 - 6. The Bills will never by a fantasy football darling on offense.

Hunt's return may benefit the Bills in that it reduces the # of carries Chubb gets.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. YAC is more influenced by skill player talent, O-line mobility and play design/call then by QB. Before Motors big screen play the Bills had attempted 16 screen passes gaining a total of 34 yards. I've seen NOTHING about Allen's ball placement this season that leads me to think it is costing us YAC. What I see are receivers who don't get a lot of separation; Receivers who don't break a lot of tackles and a team that hasn't been able to execute any type of screen pass on a consistent basis. This is what drives YAC IMO.

Actually it's quite common for backup QB's, even rookies, to get thrown into a game and do well. Sometimes they can extend that for a few games. But opposing defenses catch on and the backup starts to flounder because they do NOT IMPROVE over time. Clearly this was the case for Minshew. Did you even watch his last game? Allen has been steadily IMPROVING. Sure it's a bit like the stock market, up & down/up & down, but the trajectory is clearly up. It's at the point that Allen levels off and stops improving that you decide whether he's the guy or not. He doesn't seem close to that point yet. Which is why some of us are excited about the future.

Bingo. I can count on one hand the big YAC plays that Allen has had: last week the 49 yard screen to Motor (first successful screen of the season - chew on that fact); The Knox rumble against Cincinnati; The Beasley big pass play against the Giants; McKenzie's big gain against TN and Motors 28 yard TD against the eagles. A perfect example of what you're saying happened Monday night. Danial Jones had 210 yards passing in over 40 attempts but 90 yards came on just 2 passes: 67 yards came on a screen to Barkley thrown behind the LOS and another 23 yards came on one of the best catches made by a WR this season - the one handed grab by Tate of a ball thrown way behind him. Explosive, talented skill players make a big difference to a QB's stat line.

The bias that these two clowns show is pretty amazing. Makes me think PFF is pretty crappy. They keep saying Allen made more inaccurate throws. Really? Could they tell me which ones? Funny how Allen's fumbles which he's only lost 3, are somehow much worse then say Danial Jones fumbles that I think he's lost 8 of - in 2 fewer games then Allen! Or how about the other Allen in Carolina who fumbles quite a bit when he's sacked? I wish these guys would stop the confirmation bias in their weekly Allen reviews and actually tell me something valuable in how Allen is progressing. I know Allen needs a lot of work and there's plenty of room for improvement. But these tools appear to take it personally that he's playing in the NFL. It's like an affront to their metrics!

Not in the least. No one has beaten us so badly that Allen got to spend the 4th quarter padding his stats against backups playing a prevent defense. Check out Jackson's stat line against KC & Cleveland. Some serious "garbage" time passing yards there. And before you say the Eagles game that wasn't a blow out until late in the 4th quarter. But hey if you're impressed with efforts like Gardner Manshews 309 yard game in the Jags loss to Houston last Sunday, the game in which the Jags only scored 3 points, more power to you.

The biggest lie going around 2BD is that the passing game in the 1990's was so different that you can't compare stats from that decade to 2019. Here's Marino's stats from his SECOND year in the league in the 1980's! 64% completion rate; 5084 yards; 48 TD's & only 17 INT's with 9.4yard per PASS ATTEMPT! If this message board was in play back in the 1980's you would have had people screaming at the top of their lungs that the Bills had screwed up by passing on Marino to take Kelly.

Agreed. I mean that's the 3rd deep ball to an open receiver he's missed. I mean everyone says that it's easy to hit these types of passes.

That's what a productive TE does. Most teams have at least one. Jarwin caught the ball 6 inches off the ground turned and then exploded for the TD. Knox has shown flashes but overall NONE of our TE's have done anything remotely like that play. And while we're on the topic has any Bills WR over the last 2 years made a catch as nice as Tates was?

A couple takeaways from this game: * The Bills/Dallas game is not an automatic loss. * If the 5 - 2 Bills were playing tonight against the Giants and were only up 13 - 12 at half folks on this board would be losing their minds. We would have assumed a cake walk against a bad team with a rookie QB. There are no easy games in the NFL. * Tonight both QB's have missed several deep throws with one being intercepted. I thought it was easy to complete the long ball? * I've heard Allen described by the National Media as a "turnover machine" yet he has what 10 TO's (7 int & 3 lost fumbles) in 8 games while Jones just made his 14th TO in 7 games? * Has a Bills receiver made a catch as good as Tates was in the last 2 seasons?

And while we're on the topic of National Sports Coverage of the Bills we have to stop worrying about it. If the Bills win it will come. Now I know that's easier said then done as we listen intently to these morons bather on in the hope that they might actually mention the Bills or one of our players. But in the end the Bills might get 2 minutes in a 3 hr show! But when you listen to these guys the first thing you begin to understand is just how stupid they are. They're the ultimate front runners, flavor of the moment "experts". Of all of the national guys I like Cowherd the best because he will at least admit he was wrong. But does he know football better then the typical, committed SOBER NFL fan? Hell no. All year he's been saying that the NFC North is the TOUGHEST division in football. Then yesterday we watch them lose all 4 games! The truth is that these guys aren't "experts" but simply sports entertainers. So the only time I get pissed at them is when they stop being entertaining. You know like Dan Patrick most of the week. I check out DP on Monday to get his NFL take but then don't listen again until the next Monday because DP is boring.

I heard the same thing. DP said that he actually watched the entire Bills/Redskins game because of his interest in how Haskins would do. DP said: * That Allen was a bad QB and not a starter in the NFL and at best was a career backup. * One of DP's minions defended Allen and blamed the offensive design saying it looked like it was "25 years old". But this got me to thinking. Regardless of where you are on the Allen front would any knowledgeable person watching yesterdays game conclude Allen sucked and shouldn't be a starter? He had a QB rating of 111; completed 70% of his throws; had one passing & one rushing TD, NO TO's and made several big time throws. The only takeaway on Allen from watching yesterday's game was that the Bills were mimicking the Vikings from 10 days earlier and Allen was simply managing the game in the same way Cousins did in the Vikes 19 - 9 home game win over the Redskins. As others have noted DP hasn't watched any other Bills game this year (or last year I suspect). So IMO this fool is basing his "opinion" on what the analytics guys and some high profile Allen critics are saying. Because nothing in Allen's game yesterday could support a claim that he was at best a backup QB in the NFL.

Case in point were the Bengals & Giants games prior to yesterday's game. Interesting that in all these games Allen & the offense had to bail out the team by scoring a clinching TD in the Giants game, score a comeback TD against the Bengals and yesterday score a clinching TD late. So while I get McDermitt's thinking here and it's worked so far, as the schedule gets harder or fortunes turn against the Bills we're going to lose a couple of games where we took our foot off the gas and didn't put the other team away.

Not just a loss but the Jags only scored 3 points! The 300 yard passing game is probably the most irrelevant milestone in the NFL.

And don't forget to throw in the difference in TE play. We are in the 1st year of an O-line rebuild. We need another tackle & guard and we need to hope that Ford can become a solid guard on the other side.

For them? The answer is yes. But if Jackson goes anywhere else I don't think he's successful. What Harbough and the Ravens were willing to do in support of Jackson's style of QB play was unique. I don't see any other team going to the length that Baltimore did and so far it's worked wonders for the Ravens. But is he the best QB in the 2018 draft? I don't think so. But we won't know for at least 5 more years. Hell it may take 10 years. At this point Jackson is playing best among the 2018 class of QB's. He also has had by far the best situation to come into As an aside you don't think having one of the best O-lines ion the NFL doesn't help Jackson and the offense? You seem to dismiss the idea.

I would say the Ravens have one of the top 5 if not top 3 O-lines in the league.

He's obviously been hitting the bottle in the booth as he just got done telling us that he would run Brady a couple of times a game to keep the other team honest!