CincyBillsFan

Lamar Jackson was not considered raw he just wasn't able to make certain types of throws. There's a BIG difference. Jackson ran a spread offense where he was the guy. I'm sure that Jackson was attending multiple elite QB camps throughout high school. He was exposed at a young age to top notch QB coaching. The nature of the offense that Mahomes ran meant he was anything but raw coming out of college. Allen was raw because he didn't attend those elite QB camps and he didn't benefit from top notch QB coaching until he was preparing to be drafted. I bet that between the age of 12 - 22 Allen threw a lot fewer passes, in any capacity (games, drills, practice, 7 on 7's, camps) then Jackson or Mahomes did. Allen is a true rarity among young QB's today - he's still learning how to play the position. Collin Cowherd on his show made a great point with Trent Dilfer about the current crop of young QB's receiving all sorts of elite training and throwing the ball tens of thousands of times by the time they get out of college. But Allen is an exception to this. Under the circumstances hes actually making great progress.

I may be naive but deep ball success is as much on the receiver as it is the QB. There are a few deep throw routes that I see frequently in the college & pro game: * The classic over the shoulder catch of a straight line shot. You actually don't see this that much in the pro game. These are the ones that Allen struggled with this year. * The deep throw where the receiver tracks down and snags the ball. I put this on our receivers more then Allen. On a couple of deep shots to Foster it seemed like if he had just broke off his straight line route to track the ball it would have been a great throw. This is the most common deep ball you see thrown in the NFL. See KC for the best examples. * The "50/50" deep shot where the receiver goes up and gets the ball. Bill's receivers were awful with this kind of deep shot. I'm thinking of the pass that Brown missed against Denver and the one Foster missed against Baltimore. Upgrade the receivers and you will make Allen a better long ball thrower.

I would settle for ONE elite WR, a solid TE and a second solid RB. At present we have one good WR, a 2nd competent WR, a below average TE group & one good RB. Now don't get me wrong I think Knox will develop into a solid TE. But during the last season he was below average and had to many drops and ran some poor routes. As for Kroft & Smith................. Just look at the Super Bowl. The Chiefs field an elite WR, an elite TE, very good 2nd & 3rd WR's and a solid RB. The 49's feature an elite TE, an elite RB and a very good WR. It's not being a fan boy to hope the Bills can have at least ONE elite skills player on the offense. Or put another way I am 100% convinced that if the Bills had an elite TE Allen would have been well above 60% in completion % this season.

And when 3 rushers can generate that much pressure that quickly it's a disaster considering that the Texans had EIGHT men in coverage as a result of only rushing 3. As an aside, I listen to Cowherd a lot and over the last month he frequently calls out Allen as an example of the next wave of super QB's. This is a distinct change from when he was calling Allen a bust. My guess is that Cowherd has watched some tape and talked to some QB experts who studied Allen and he's changed his mind about him as a result. From what I've seen Allen does more with less then almost any other QB in the NFL. It's that simple. I predict that when the Bills surround Allen with players that lift the Bills into the top half of NFL offenses, Allen will perform as a top 10 QB. If we ever get the talent on offense to reach the top quarter, Allen will be a top 3 QB.

Never in the history of pro football have so few argued so strenuously and for so long that a particular QB sucked. The "pro" Allen folks throw out the reasonable and obvious observation that Allen got better from his rookie to his 2nd season. And then the naysayers express their horror at such homerism and throw out all sorts of stats to show that Allen sucks and will always suck! He is hopeless so we better draft a QB in the 4th round to give him competition. And to prove their point they employ more mathematics then was employed by NASA in the moon landings. That this thread has gone 100 pages without showing any signs of dying out is amazing and a bit sad at the same time.

The excuse for Buffalo was that the organization wasn't ready to take their franchise QB in 2017. Brand new coach, a GM hanging on by his finger nails and a relatively new owner. And I suspect that Tyrod's very low turnover rate appealed to a defensive minded coach like McD. I bet that the thinking was along the lines of "lets see how we do with Tyrod if we go into 2017 with a much better defense". And do you think Jacksonville is kicking themselves for taking Fournette over McCaffrey? What was their excuse? They were in the market for a RB and still took the wrong one. The NFL draft is one big crap shoot.

This is a great point. And for the record, Cincinnati's pick John Ross at #9 has been a world class BUST! Had they taken Mahomes instead they wouldn't need to be drafting Burrow at #1 this year. And we all know that Mahomes would have been a superstar with the Bengals just like he would have been with the Bills and is with the Chiefs. As an aside, do you think Jacksonville wishes they had taken McCaffrey over Fournette?

I guess this depends on how you look at things. Since the available evidence has convinced me that Allen will be a better QB then Darnold it was awesome that we didn't waste draft picks to move up to #3 and take Darnold.

Am I the only one who thinks that Palamalu & Mahomes Head and Shoulders commercial is hilarious? The way it ends cracks me up every time.

Agree 100%. I don't understand how anyone watching these games doesn't come to the same conclusion. Also notice how much YAC these receivers gain. And just as often as not the pass isn't all that great but they manage to dig it off the ground turn on a dime and gain 5 - 10 more yards. The other thing you notice is how deficient we were at RB. Other then Singleterry we had nothing. Look at how the #2 & #3 RB's on these other teams make plays BOTH running & catching the football. I suspect we've been to hard on Allen AND Daboll.

So was mine!

I was being sarcastic there Motorin! And you're right, Rogers had a more normal development path. If we're lucky Allen will develop along a similar line. People forget that we've been there and done that before with respect to Mahomes - his name was Dan Marino! And like Mahomes, a lot of teams passed on Danny.

According to folks on this board that IS passing on Rogers. Had we NOT traded our 1st round pick for Losman we could have taken Rogers and the rest would be history. I mean the Bills should have known a year ahead of time that Rogers was a future HOF QB and NOT traded for JPL. Remember you can't win an argument with me on this because I have 20/20 HINDSIGHT - just like all the Bills "fans" backing Mahomey's!

I don't know about that but we definitely passed on Aaron Rogers!

So we have Bills fans obsessing over the PAST because we didn't draft Mahomes three years ago and we also have Bills fans obsessing over Allen's FUTURE accuracy. Funny what Bills fans worry about isn't it? Here's the bottom line: * We can't do anything to change the fact that the Bills passed on Mahomes. NOTHING. So at what point do folks move on? * It seems stupid to worry about Allen's accuracy NEXT SEASON. I mean it still hasn't happened yet right? * Allen improved his completion percentage from 53% to 59%. It was OBVIOUS to anyone who watched the last 2 seasons that Allen's accuracy improved considerably. * Given the CAP room and the fact that under Bean/McD the Bills have drafted well it's reasonable to assume that they will further upgrade their offensive skill positions. Add in another year for Allen to develop and for an offense with NINE NEW players to better gel it's likely that Allen's accuracy will further improve.

Do Bears fans obsess about Mahomes as much as Bills fans do?

But the Bills didn't take a QB that year right? So they didn't pass on Mahomes. Look the Bills had a lame duck GM and a brand new head coach and almost a brand new owner. It wasn't a year that the Bills were going to pull the trigger on a 1st round QB. And let's not forget that Reid was one of the few NFL guys who saw greatness in Mahomes.

Allen was a better pick for the Bills then Jackson would have been. And IMO 5 years from now the this will be considered conventional knowledge. The Bills were not going to hire Roman at OC and were not going to build an offense to fit Jackson's strengths.

No. But you know what's worse, much worse, obsessing over something that can't be changed. How long are some Bills fans going to cry into their beers over not drafting Mahomes? It's been freaking THREE YEARS. And the Bills weren't the only team to pass on Mahomes.

Great run by Mahomes but I feel for defenders in the modern NFL. The next time Mahomes is running along the sideline and steps out as he gets blasted on the sideline what do you think the refs are going to do? Yep, 15 yard penalty for roughing the passer.

You want FACTS - FACTS that matter? 2018 in his rookie season Allen completed 53% of his passes. In 2019 his 2nd season Allen completed 59% of his passes. Great improvement in % completion indicating that next year we should expect Allen to complete somewhere between 60 - 65% of his passes.

I didn't see his one year at Jr college numbers. Not did you post his freshman football or Junior high football numbers. Hell why not go back to Pop Warner football it might really strengthen your argument.

Oh please, the agenda is that Allen isn't accurate. Own it for crying out loud! If you actually watch high school football you wouldn't post the stats because they have NO relation to what a guy does in the NFL. The ONLY % completion numbers that matter for Allen is that he went from 53% to 59% in one year. A similar improvement next season will see Allen in the low mid 60's for % completion. Then you guys are going to have to find something else to complain about.

High school results mean zero, zip, nada when it comes to the NFL. I can't believe anyone would post them in order to make a point.

I agree with this. It's interesting to see all the revised history about who was in a worse position, Allen or Rosen. The only thing I'll concede is that when all is said and done Allen is part of a better organization. But that doesn't mean the Bills organization didn't put Allen in just as bad a position last year as Arizona put Rosen in: * BOTH QB's were placed in offenses that were historically terrible. The ONLY reason some say Rosen had a worse O-line is that they ignore the fact that Allen bailed last year's O-line out with his athleticism - which is greatly superior to Rosens. You put Rosen behind last years Bill's O-line and he looks just as bad. * Rosen actually had a better receiver group. Fitzgerald is a solid vet and unselfish class act. He alone elevated the Card's receivers over anything the Bill's fielded last year. * And let's not forget just how badly the Bill's mismanaged Allen's rookie training camp & preseason. They gave him very few snaps with the first team and then declared that Peterman would be the starter. This lasted ONE FREAKING WEEK. After that they threw Allen to the wolves. That he survived and by the end of the season had started to thrive is why he is the guy for us. * And let's not forget that going into the season the Bills had done NOTHING to ease Allen into the league. Allen did not benefit from having an experienced QB in the QB room and his Offensive Coordinator was brand new to the Bills. Allen succeeded his rookie year IN SPITE of the Bills. It's that simple.