CincyBillsFan

I guess that where this all leads is that we're just not there yet and that's okay. We're in the middle of a partial rebuild. The D has been ahead of the O and didn't need a rebuild. But the O was a disaster in 2017 & 2018. We all watched that playoff game where Tyrod & company scored 3 points. That was the low point of our O. We are currently coming out of the offensive rebuild and next year we should see a big improvement in the O after seeing a decent improvement this year over the disastrous offenses of 2017 & 2018. So it bugs me when the geniuses that write for the WNY sports media aim their venom at the O - knowing full well that this unit is being rebuilt - while letting the D off the hook. At 6 - 3 we're overachieving this year as a team. And with a break here or there 10 - 6 and a playoff spot is still possible. But getting there will not be pretty and reading the ignorant & lazy takes by some in the WNY media only makes things worse.

Do they? We don't seem to have a lot of 3 & outs. Our problem is that our "drives" stall after a couple of 1st downs. And over the last 5 games, where we have gone 3 - 2, the O has turned the ball over only twice with only one being on our side of the field (against Philly). In fact I think we've only lost one TO in our red zone the entire year (the pick 6 against the Jets). It's true that the O puts our D in a tough spot by not scoring a lot of points but it hasn't seemed like excessive 3 & outs or TO's on our side of the field have been a big problem - particularly over the last 5 games.

Whose fault is that? Our O actually does move the ball on most possessions for at least a couple of 1st downs. We tend to stall out around midfield. In contrast our D has given up a lot of 3rd & long recently.

I disagree. Sure points & yards allowed are important metrics but some D coordinators view takeaways as the most important measure of a D's effectiveness. Field position is also an important metric and our D has allowed teams to get out of trouble to often. We have a good but not a great D and combined with a below average offense and 6 - 3 is a very good record.

I guess my point is that we can't really rely on the D because while it's good it's not top 10 if you look at all the factors that makes a D great. Pair that with an O that's still a work in progress and a record of 6 - 3 is actually pretty amazing - no matter who we've played!

I don't disagree. But if we are to compete THIS YEAR the D has to carry us. Beating on an offense that has 9 new starters and not a single game breaker among the skill position players is missing the target. Now next year Allen has to have improved and we have to have improved the quality of the O-line and the explosiveness of the skill players. Last year we had the 30th rated offense. This year if we can get it to #22 we'll have made a big improvement but at #22 it will still be below average. That's what bugs me about the WNY media stories this morning. They're trashing the O but seem to ignore the very real issues with the D. Let's not forget that over the last two years, 2 out of our 3 first round draft picks have been defensive guys.

Talking about the importance of FORCED TO's...................................One got the Seahawk's a TD and one by the 49's took a Seahawks TD off the board. The more I think about it the more the lack of forced TO's by our D is a problem for the Bills that is going under the radar. And of course the morons that cover the Bills in Western NY don't seem to notice while they focus on Allen's fumbles.

Two observations of tonight's game as it relates to the Bills: 1) QB's fumble. It happens. The more a QB is sacked or runs with the football the more they fumble. Why some folks on this board obsess over Allen's fumbles while ignoring all the other fumbles is beyond me. From the Giants rookie QB who has had 2 of his fumbles returned for TD's to Carolina's Kyle Allen who has lost 5 fumbles to Jimmy G tonight who just fumbled the 49's momentum away. 2) I think we have a good defense but I also think they do some things very poorly. One is getting the opposing O off the field and the other is that they don't force TO's. But all I've read today from the Western NY sports media is how bad the Bills O is and it's "unfair" to expect the D to carry us. And I respond why the hell can't we expect the D to carry us? That's the Bills strength. Tonight the Seahawk's D forces a TO and makes it a game. When you have a struggling O the best way a D can help is force a lot of 3 & outs and TO's. Our D doesn't do either. How many defensive TD's have been scored this year? And we have only ONE forced TO in the opponents red zone. I bet that's worst in the league.

No. But folks who complain about Allen ignore this simple fact. Think about the catches that were made by the Cleveland WR's yesterday. I have not seen a Bill's receiver make a catch as good as that Landry catch on the Browns game winning TD drive over the last TWO YEARS. And I still have that Golden Tate catch against Dallas last Monday night burned into my eyes. Or the Amari Cooper catches last night. Allen definitely misses some open receivers and he definitely has to improve but his receivers are still dropping passes and they NEVER make spectacular catches to bail him out. The Bill's offensive problems are a TEAM problem NOT a Josh Allen problem.

Great take. And this is so obvious when comparing Allen to Tyrod that the folks ignoring it are doing so because of a weird dislike of Allen. Tyrod was given plenty of time to show us he wasn't the guy. I want Allen to succeed and at this time in his career I look for the positive when I watch him play. He has improved greatly from his early starts last season. Remember Green Bay, TN & LA? If he continues to improve we have a keeper. If he plateaus before getting much better we don't have a franchise guy and we'll have to start over. But I happen to think he'll keep getting better and by the midway point of the season next year the negative Allen tirades will look ridiculous in hindsight. But if he doesn't get any better and ends being a Buffalo version of Bortles then it isn't personal He would just be a guy that couldn't quite get to the next level. With a lot of the posters critical of Allen on 2BD it just seems there is a personal animus towards the guy. I just don't get it.

As others have noted Allen went for the win with Brown. In hindsight it was the wrong call but when looking at it from the long term perspective of Allen's development as a QB I think it was the right call. It was aggressive and we'd all be singing Allen's praises today if Brown had comeback for the back shoulder throw. As for throwing to Beasley on that play I think the picture makes the situation look a lot better then it really was. With the Browns DE coming almost unhindered at Allen the possibility the pass could have been batted down or Allen under severe duress would have missed the throw was pretty high. IMO either throw, whether to Brown or Beasley, was going to be equally problematic but for different reasons. BTW, by not going out of bounds on the previous play Singleterry put the Bills in a tougher spot with respect to the clock. This seems to be getting overlooked in trying to assign blame for that last drive.

And after Minnesota's 28 - 24 victory over Dallas we can add another QB who threw for well under 300 yards winning a game against a QB who just missed hitting 400 yards! That brings the total today to 10 games won by QB's who did not hit 300 yards passing with only 1 of the QB's who passed 300 yards winning their game.

You can BOTH play to win a game AND still not expect to have a winning season based on the point in a rebuild you're at. The Dolphins are clearly at the start of a rebuild but at the same time they've been playing to win. If Miami had started out 3 - 3 they would have been sort of happy & in shock. More importantly they would have realized that they were NOT positioned to make a serious run for the playoffs down the line because they gave away all their players. It really is a dilemma for teams when they exceed their own internal expectations during a rebuild. I'm actually glad the Bills didn't go out and overpay for players that might have helped them this year to make the playoffs. I would rather miss the playoffs this year if it puts us in a better position to make multiple playoff runs over the next 5 years.

Well that's one way to look at it. But you're right in that I needed to use more precise wording here - instead of "hoped", which is how you feel when you buy a Power Ball ticket, they "expected" and prepared for a much more modest outcome. But the bottom line is that until we upgrade the talent around Allen it's hard to see just how high his upside is.

I guess it would be to bench Allen and see if Barkley can do it. Then in the off season trade Allen for a 2nd round pick and go all out to sign Teddy Bridgwater or maybe work a deal with Jacksonville for Gardnew Minshew. I mean he's had a couple of 300 yard games so he's much better then Allen. Of course any of these moves would be insane but that's the type of thinking 20 years of NFL purgatory gets you. And I get it. We're seeing a football version of post traumatic stress syndrome. Then how is it happening?

I'm becoming more convinced by the game that the Bills brain trust was hoping to win AT MOST 8 games this year based on where they thought we were in the rebuild. Then we unexpectedly get off to a 3 - 0, 5 - 1 & 6 - 2 start and surge to the front of the pack in the wildcard. Of course this is due to a perfect storm of AFC teams imploding, the Bills having an easy schedule and the teams playing a scrappy brand of football. But if you look how the Bill's offense was structured this year this season was all about getting Allen reps and improving his game. If the Bills truly thought they had a chance to go 10 - 6 and make the playoffs do you think they cut Shady at the end of the preseason and go into the season with those TE's and that backfield? From a big picture standpoint NEXT season was the one the Bills were aiming for to move away from the rebuild and jump into contending for the Division title & beyond.

If this is what happened that it means they did try to win the game and not settle for the FG. You can call it a bad decision by Allen but you could also say it was an aggressive attempt to end the game in regulation. On the road and with an inferior kicker, we were at a disadvantage in OT.

This is where the circumstances of the game come into play. Say the Bills didn't have that goal line stand in the 1st half and the Browns score a TD. Then late in the game Cleveland ices things with that last TD to go up 26 - 16. Now on that last drive Allen, throwing against a prevent D, drives us down for a TD with 18 seconds left, getting that last 35 yards. Bingo he just got his first 300 yard game! And we lose 26 - 23. Since Allen has come back from his injury last year we just haven't had to many of those types of games. Our games are usually close affairs.

I think you bring up some uncomfortable truths about today's game. First off I don't think McD & Daboll are idiots but I do think Daboll over thinks & over complicates things. For some reason he thought we could attack the Browns downfield but with a modern day Bruce Smith on the field and the QB NOT wearing a red jersey it's a dangerous assumption. I also don't think Daboll has much confidence in our RB's. He doesn't see Singleterry as a week in and week out 20 - 25 carry bruiser. And Gore wouldn't last half the season if we tried to run him in that mode. We simply don't have the backfield talent to do what at least half the NFL offenses can do when needed - pound the football.

I agree it is odd. But I also think it's by design. McDermitt doesn't ever want to be in a position where he's so far behind a QB has the opportunity to pile up yardage against the prevent. Hell last week Gardner Minshew threw for 309 yards in a losing cause in which his team only scored 3 points! In some ways that's more amazing then not hitting 300 yards.

Here's where having an expert watch that particular play would really help. First off Allen was not widely inaccurate there as he got the ball exactly where it needed to be but as you say appeared to be off by a "split second". I can live with that in a 2nd year QB. But what I would be curious about is at tomorrows film session at One Bills Drive will anyone say that Knox should have adjusted ever so slightly and stepped to the ball? I mean if he does it blocks the DB from knocking the ball away and it's a either a TD catch or PI in the end zone as the DB would have had to run through Knox to get to the ball. Kind of like that first Cleveland TD where the coverage was good but the WR made a nice adjustment to the ball.

Or you don't have explosive play makers. Or you haven't been in the circumstances that lead to 300 yard games - like falling way behind and piling up yardage against prevent defenses. Like I said there were 9 games won today with QB's throwing for well under 300 yards and only 1 game won by a QB throwing for more then 300 yards. Did he? I wouldn't know from watching the game on TV. I can see when he misses a wide open guy and I can see when a receiver drops the ball and I can see when Allen throws the ball at the feet of a RB so our crappy screen play doesn't get blown up or when he throws a ball into the stands to avoid a sack. But how many times he misses his read - I can't tell. I wait until those guys at the Athletic or 22 review go over the film and show me where Allen made the right or wrong read.

Quit moving the goal posts. The original criticism was that Allen was missing all sorts of OPEN receivers. And I challenged that saying I only remember him missing 2 OPEN receivers with bad throws. As for the 19 incompletions, there were drops, throwaways, great defensive plays and guys who were covered. We had our usual couple of passes thrown at the feet of the RB because our attempted screen was blown up. That pretty much covers the 2 bad throws and 17 other incompletions.

I can't wait to see the deep throw to McKenzie on the 22 review. Maybe it was my looking at Allen's passes through rose colored glasses but McKenzie looked like he was running in sand on that play. he seemed slow and it even looked like he slowed down. Did anyone else notice this?

I think two factors contributed to this: 1) The offensive game plan. Even the scripted drives were off today. 2) The lack of offensive rhythm was in part due to the D not getting off the field and limiting offensive possessions - especially in the 1st half. On our last 2 possessions Allen led us to a go ahead TD, overcoming a holding penalty, and then got us into FG range for a shot to tie things up. I watched the caroilina kicker nail a 50 yard FG into the wind and snow today so 52 yards while long IS make-able. I agree though that things just seemed off today. You get a few of these types of games every season.