WideNine

Although as a rule I do not like drafting Offensive line in the 1st round of a draft, one cannot help but see how that worked out for Indy with their pick of Quenton Nelson. There are some legit blue chip O-linemen available this year and I could foresee a run on them considering the needs of teams that invested a lot in their QB of the future - Arizona, Buffalo, and some established teams have to be thinking they need to protect better - Aaron Rogers isn't getting any younger and took a lot of shots this year, the Redskins QBs have been destroyed, the Eagles, Detroit, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Tennessee, and the Giants all but said they are retooling their o-line - all of these teams are likely thinking they have to do a better job protecting their current investments at QB. There has been some solid speculation on this forum that this could also lead to more than a bit of a bidding war around FA o-linemen that are worth looking at and would likely price them beyond their value - the Bills have money, but need to spend it wisely. I see them maybe cracking the piggy bank for 1 or 2 FA o-linemen tops depending on how the bidding goes. So the rest would have to come via the draft. I don't think our defense is in as desperate need as the offense, and will be even better if they can get healthy again. They could use some depth at LB and another prospect that can do what Star is supposed to be doing every down - if nothing else, to help spell him in a rotation because taking on double teams without getting blown up is not as easy as some would think and those guys get gassed fast (not excusing him for lack of impact, just saying he and the Bills would do better with a quality rotation at the position) Darius was supposed to be that guy for the d-line to build around before Star - didn't work. If there is a can't miss BPA on defense then you take him, but it will be interesting to see how the next draft unfolds, I also think there are some really solid TE prospects coming out this year would like us to pick up one that has above average blocking, and hands that can catch a bullet.

Not to knock on Allen, but Belicheat also said we had great WRs and TEs. He always talks up the competition, and our team too before they go out and thump us and he trots off the field with a smirk.

And NE scored a whopping 10 against the Titans and the Steelers this year, but I will grant you that the Bills have not been able to put up big offensive numbers. I do think that they have been a drop away from putting up better numbers each week - we will see if the O can get'er done this week.

I ran across a poster who knew a lot more about Culley than I did, and had nothing but praise for what he can do for a QB. I was willing to take a "wait and see approach" I think that McBeane knew that they were going to go all-in for a QB last year and there is a reason they pulled in Culley and Daboll who spent 2 years as a QB coach and has had endorsements from QBs he has worked with. I do think that there is a difference between having QB coaches to turn to and having a veteran QB on the sideline with a clipboard helping settle the nerves. Maybe a young QB is a bit more comfortable asking situational questions from someone who has actually been there done that. Whatever the formula, I think it is clear that Josh is learning week from week and he seems to have the right people around him that are helping him get there.

Thanks for sharing this. I have to think that any team that uses some kind of aggregate numbers method to determine how to beat rookie QB's would be pretty narrow-minded. Most all of these QB's have learned and gotten a bit better over the season - perhaps Allen and Dalton the most. Belichick is not dumb, he isn't watching Allen's first NFL games, he is watching his last few games and knows that he can hit throws from the pocket. Ol' Bill was a bit overly generous heaping praise on the Bills receiving core and Tight Ends, knowing him he was giggling inside, but we do have some of our young WR talent stepping up. Croom can't block a breeze, but is starting to show some clutch grabs. If there is anything I think the Patriots will take out of watching film of the Bills it is that our line has been pretty susceptible to stunts, twists, and delayed blitzes. So he may elect to send guys after Josh but be sure to have his outside rushers play disciplined to not lose contain and ensure he cannot escape the pocket. I think sometimes folks may also underestimate how hard Josh can be to bring down with a smaller corner or safety... he has shown that he can stiff-arm or shed that first guy so we will see. It will be an interesting match-up and if Josh stays healthy he should learn a lot from it.

Good article about the importance of your offensive line. Although written from the Giant's perspective they focus a lot on the moves that Colts made in the offseason to address their line with some quotes from our Frank Reich. Also a cautionary tale for those who think taking or paying for a top-tier running back is a wise move before a team has built a decent line to run behind. Shurmur gives the nod to Colts success due largely to their retooling of their offensive line.

If dealing with the aftermath of that did not make him go back to hitting the pipe, nothing would. And a bit more about how the Patriots plan to fill the gap left by Gordon - and an almost interesting story around how Belichick informed Gilmore of making his 2nd pro-bowl. Its good to know he never breaks character. Game planning after Gordon's departure and other Patriot news "stuff"

Take the over with the the Bills giving up +6 At least (2) roughing the Brady calls, (3) holds (2 by Dawkins, 1 by an interior linemen like our center where replays leave the booth baffled), and a minimum of (1) DPI against White and likely (1) against Wallace as he will probably draw Edelman in the slot. Throw in the usual (1) more for Dawkins being an ineligible receiver downfield on a screen play and you will probably be in the right neighborhood. Last week was an unusual reprieve... I think we could be in for a flag-fest. I believe we have Shawn Smith's officiating crew (unless the schedule has changed) and he seems to be on the high end of tossing flags around. From Pro-Football-Reference site: in 2018 Smith is averaging 15.85 penalties/game for 142.85 yards the league average is 13.51 for a 115.50 yards They were the crew that officiated our game against Chicago earlier this year where: Chicago was assessed 14 penalties for 129 yards and the Bills were assessed 10 penalties for 163 yards.

Not sure a lot of what we are seeing out there today was by design, but everyone is entitled to an opinion - and I mean that. IMO - What I think I have seen is a staff that has been scrambling to fill holes caused by piss-poor play and injuries and what we have in regards to starting roster is what they were able to pull up from the practice squad, or grab off waivers, and some of it turned out to be not terrible. I give a young front office a mulligan now and then, but some moves were just not very well thought out - like not having some veteran QB depth/backup which forced them to pull one guy off the couch and another off the street. That did not seem like a strategic move no matter how much you wrap it in "process" I am honest about the above, but I'll add that if the the staff at OBD can be honest in evaluating their own performance and learn from past mistakes I am willing to see if they can grow into the role a bit and if that growth translates into success on the field.

Don't fall for it - wasn't Aaron Rogers supposed to be on life support when we played GB and he schooled us, even ran for a 1st down if I remember. Stafford was supposedly at the end of his rope too and had a pretty good game all things considered. I will consider Brady to be officially hurt when his backup is playing.

As for o-linemen I think the OP agreed with you that any o-linemen worth his salt will be at least 10 mil - he added at the end of his O-Line spend tally - (thinking 2 @ $11M & 1 @ $5M)

Have no idea how good a scout Daboll is, he helped us raid some Crimson Tide under-the-radar talent, but having actually been there, that should have been a given. I don't know if I can lay this just at Daboll's feet, but OBD has really struggled for years landing marquis receivers that can stay on the field and be productive. He and Beane are going to be under a lot of scrutiny to see if they can really find the right tools to compliment a Josh Allen kind of offense. Getting our forgotten running game going would not hurt either - need to retool the RB position, clear some dead weight, etc.

You are not wrong, and I will not disagree with you on the picks of Ray Ray and Proehl. I am seriously hoping whoever creates their draft board and ranks WR prospects drops the pipe this year and does a much better job this time around. There is a lot of WR and TE talent coming out this year... and yes, I will join you with the pitchforks and torches if they pick another slot smurf that is projected by most to be an UFA.

Not to mention we have rarely gotten a good deal from officiating when we play Kraft's team at Gillette - I think you are probably right about the spread considering how banged up we are. Even if we do have a lead, I don't know if I quite trust our defense to hold it - they shut down Stafford last week, but he was playing with a lot of hurt. As a consolation prize, I would not mind if we knock Brady to the ground every time he drops back to pass and I would not mind if someone rocks Gronk - just a bit of payback for the White hit. This game is a win/win for us. If we lose we are already out of the playoffs and we secure a better draft position, if we win we can take pride in the fact that we sent a clear message that there is a changing of the guard in the AFC East and NE, Brady, and Darth Belicheat are starting their inevitable slide into NFL history. My hope is that with solid drafting, astute free agent pickups, new coaches and front office(s), NE will mount some kind of NFL comeback in 20 years or so, OR once I am dead and gone.

What I find interesting is that there are a few posters who rarely ever venture into starting a thread themselves, yet feel they are an authority on what is a good thread or not and are quick to offer their opinion. They are welcome to their opinion - of course, and I won't try too hard to change it, but I do think that if a thread is so terrible don't bother reading it, or better yet show some stones and start your own threads so others can sit back and judge them. I just like to get conversation rolling on the Wall - take it, or by all means leave it. I don't really mind that folks argue about the same things from a zillion different angles and will be likely arguing the same things next season, it is what it is. There are plenty of threads that state the obvious about this offense, yet you will still find plenty of people citing our lack of offensive production (the scoreboard) in defense of how poorly Daboll is performing as an OC or how poorly Allen is doing at the QB position. That is why I spelled it out in very clear, very "DUH" fashion as you put it, just how inexperienced and just how many castaways made up our starting roster last Sunday. There is plenty of reason to hope and be excited about this offseason, because if they can produce with the group they have now I cannot wait to see what they can do if OBD retools the line and weapons Josh has.

Weapons are nice, but I think you have to have time to get it to them... I agree with many posts here about upgrading our o-line via free-agency and picking up some WRs in the draft. It is obvious that this offense could use some veteran influence, especially along the line. Not trash, I think they have found some gems, but I am amazed that they have been able to get these guys ready to play. And I would expect routes to be run poorly and more than a bit of miscommunication out there - just think they are doing a pretty good job all things considered. Fair enough... it is not like I am a Daboll fan-boy, I see more than a few plays I would not agree with. The play you mentioned, that was a head scratcher, as well as the inside run for Josh that looked like a design play when we were running out the clock. I am fine with option plays where Josh rolls out and decides to keep it, or when he sees the defense has dropped back into zone or man leaving him a lot of room to run, but running him right into the teeth of the defense... he got rocked on that play.

Agree 100% and I don't think we have anyone behind Groy at Center, at least no one was listed on the depth chart. Likely one of the Guards could be pressed into duty if Groy gets injured - not that he has ever been injured before... which he has.

You are most welcome sir, but you forgot that this was also another excuse thread for Daboll. I will try to abstain from posting anything supportive about Josh Allen or Daboll on this forum - just for you.

Rather than bitching (complaining, nit-picking, whining, pick the appropriate adjective) about offensive production under Daboll or with Allen under center, I think we should all be more amazed that this motley collection below even have the capability to move the ball at all against other NFL teams. Just food for thought. Ladies and Gentlemen these are your Buffalo Bills! The starting roster on Offense for the Detroit game (at least for many of the snaps): 79 Jordan Mills T (Practice Squad Player) 73 Dion Dawkins T (2nd Year Starter) 75 Wyatt Teller G (Rookie - inactive thru Week 8) 76 John Miller G / Ike Boettger (4th year struggling player, lost snaps during the game to Ike Boettger Practice Squad) 72 Ryan Groy C (bounced around the NFL for 5 years PS w/Chicago, traded to NE and spent that time on IR, injury settlement, waived and went to TB Practice Squad then to Bills) 16 Robert Foster (Practice Squad) 11 Zay Jones (struggling 2nd Year Player) 19 Isaiah McKenzie (Practice Squad) 35 Keith Ford (Practice Squad) 80 Jason Croom (Practice Squad) 12 Josh Allen (Rookie QB)

I think the whole completion % thing has been beat to death, but I am pretty sure 26CB posted this clip at some point where Trent Dilfer talks about evaluating Allen. He also emphatically shares his disdain for the completion % stat when incorrectly used as a gauge for accuracy - for what it is worth from someone who played the game:

Daboll was a QB coach for the Jets for two years and Favre thought highly of him, Culley has spent time in the college ranks as a QB coach...so Josh actually has two at this point and I think you can see that Josh is getting coached. I will be curious to see how much input Daboll will have on this draft ...the Bills certainly hit on some Clemson UFA talent... but drafting Ray Ray, and Proehl - two guys both projected as slot receivers was not what I had in mind.

If I actually thought Josh was regressing I would agree. And I like Daboll so far in that he is creative...perhaps too creative at times, but I think he does put guys in a position where they could make a play more often than not. And those situations you mentioned are true for those situations. Josh isn't regressing, so I think it would not benefit him to have a change at OC.

I disagree a bit, but don't mind a game where they are sacrificing some completions for getting to Brady a lot.

Truth - and the reason for the hard count and the free pass play that they always go for.. most teams will get a PI, the refs were a bit wishy-washy on the calls last week. I would think you should take a few shots to see if they are calling it tight or not and if they are - go for it whenever you get that man coverage.

I know the Peterman subject is a sore one for most, but Peterman had his chances and they were epic terrible offensive outings. From all accounts the team liked Peterman and I don't get the sense anyone gave up on him, he just could not sense the rush or escape it which led to a lot of turnovers. Not just this year, but also when he had a much better o-line in front of him than Allen the year before when he filled in for an injured Tyrod, so folks just need to let that one go. I only mentioned him in regards to Zay dropped passes from him, and Tyrod, and any other QB throwing to him - that is all.