WideNine

The other 2 were for crack-back blocks - no call, just like how the rushing TD that never crossed the goal line was reviewed and held. Is what it is. I would be OK with the penalty if a Bill returned the favor.

I know I am usually preaching offense and surround Josh with some better talent, but I think if Oliver is still there when the Bills pick you take him as the guy is an instant upgrade for a d-line - I do have the head-case concerns and I would expect OBD to do their homework to ensure the sideline tirade was an isolated thing rather than a sign of Aldon Smith-like craziness. There are a couple good tackles in the draft and some mocks have us taking WV's Cajuste. Most would agree that the draft is deep with defensive players, but less so for offensive players. Some use that rational to say that the draft will play out with just defensive guys taken first and foremost. I am not too sure - if the drop in offensive talent is steep from early round to later round talent than there may be a run on the few elite offensive players available and folks will take their chances with the depth of available defensive prospects. I saw one mock where he had the Bills completely focused on offense the first 3 rounds - taking Metcalf as their 1st pick, LT Cajuste with their 2nd pick, and had the Wisconsin Center Biadasz in the 3rd. If Biadasz made it all the way to the 3rd it would be a miracle and a no-brainer steal for the Bills, but that just is not going to happen.

Not sure they are trying to make him a pocket passer as there have been plenty of designed roll-outs and QB option plays called. There are times (the NE game is a perfect example) where a QB is kept in the pocket by the defensive design of your opponent. Belichick loves doing that to rookie QBs because pretty much all rookies have a comfort level of falling back to running the ball when they do not like what they see or get pressured in the pocket. Getting QBs in general and rookie QB's in particular to be "uncomfortable" and out of rhythm is the goal. Also, if I were a betting man and had to bet on Buffalo's receivers catching a deep throw or Allen running wild down the field, the safer bet would be to guard against the latter and trust your DB's and the Bills receivers to not make the catches. It is games like NE that force the need for honing patience and pocket-passing skills. Josh will need to be able to adjust to taking what defenses give him - if it is underneath options from the pocket, so be it. Having some kind of quasi-consistent running game will also help build that patience and the sense that the entire offense is not predicated entirely on his ability to push the ball downfield with throws.

I measure my devotion by how well I have handled being in an abusive relationship for most of my life. So pretty much hopelessly devoted. Signs of Abusive Relationships Important warning signs that you may be involved in an abusive relationship include when someone: harms you physically in any way, including slapping, pushing, grabbing, shaking, smacking, kicking, and punching (causing over drinking, over eating, nausea, bouts of insomnia, frequent throwing up) tries to control different aspects of your life, such as how you dress, who you hang out with, and what you say (pretty self explanatory - just try to go to a Bills game with a deluded Jets or cocky Patriot fan... you do that maybe once in the cheap seats) frequently humiliates you or makes you feel unworthy (for example, if you were a larger market team we would love you, not black you out, and maybe throw some calls your way at critical times in a game) threatens to harm you, or to self-harm, if you leave the relationship (we could move if you don't build that stadium) twists the truth to make you feel you are to blame for your partner's actions (if the 12th man shows up we will beat NE) demands to know where you are at all times (we now have a mobile app) constantly becomes jealous or angry when you want to spend time with your friends (we finally had folks openly admit that they did not stay to see the great Houston comeback playoff game)

What irritates me the most with many of these posts, and all of them that say things like "Allen has always been....", you are seeing what he has always been... Pure idiocy. What vast Allen football history are they drawing from - the multi-sport HS kid who did not go to QB camps where recruiters hung out and was considered too small to garner any college interest. Who spent a season at JUCO (Reedley College), grew to 6' 5" and finally got a shot with Wyoming. Perhaps the vast amount of film is the 2 games he played in his first year at Wyoming before getting injured (broken collarbone), or the his second year where he started before going in the 1st round of the NFL draft. Most everyone who evaluates QB talent, acknowledge Allen has the tools, but also was the most inexperienced QB of the 1st round draft class and would need a lot of time and NFL-level coaching to get up to speed. The good news is the book on Josh is he has always excelled at every sport he has participated in and picks things up quickly. Tossing around stats comparing Allen to NFL veterans and QBs who were recruited and featured at D1 schools is not the smartest thing (I am being kind), and pretty close to a waste of time. The only metrics I care about is Josh game 1 compared to Josh game 2... Josh game 3... you get the picture. Most of us know that Allen was the least ready (experience-wise) for the NFL. That there would be more than enough pundits more focused on ruining the kid with their lack of patience, and narrow-minded comparisons, than those willing to see the potential and understand the time and support needed to bring it all out. Recall what Trent Dilfer said about Josh Allen who he felt had the best raw skill set of the draft class: “Josh Allen is the one right now that’s ripping my heart out. Darnold should be playing, Rosen should be playing, Baker should be playing. I don’t think Josh Allen should be playing. He comes up, a very similar background as me, Central Valley California, smaller school.” “I don’t think he (Allen) is ready for the bigness that is the NFL and he’s not surrounded by enough good stuff, innovation, talent, whatever… the ten other things, that can make up for his lack of sophistication and experience.” “Every year I will identify a kid, that is like me, his background’s like me, you can see the writing on the wall, that we can ruin… the chances of ruining this kid, are better than making him become a superstar.” Dilfer sees a lot of similarities between his and Allen’s situations. “I went early, not because I wanted to, but because I was being told to. I had deep insecurity. I was overwhelmed moving across the country from California to Tampa, Florida to the worst organization in football (yes, I believe he is comparing Buffalo and the supporting cast to being one of the worst organizations in football) …I wasn’t ready. To be able to sit and watch and learn and have people teach me how to be a better pro, and then use their discretion on knowing when I was ready, would have been better for me.”

Here's the thing about the above: Anyone watching Allen knows he has had more very deep passes and deep passes for TD's dropped than any of his draft peers so I wont even debate that point as it would be silly. All teams use man to man, or some man with safety help over top, just a matter of degree. Those passes to Foster were not "broken coverages" if you are using that term as most do - to represent confusion by the defense and no one covering Foster. Those completions you reference were Foster beating his man on his route as well as beating safety help over top too (when its been there) with Allen throwing a perfect throw. With all due respect, if you do not realize that those were deep post routes by design then you do not know what you are looking at. Foster never breaks stride, takes his DB straight up the field and loses him as soon as he makes his break. Foster has really good speed. Turn over on downs versus TD's - fix the dropped passes and that changes like magic. Allen's efficiency in the red zone improves when we have a running game that can both occasionally score and also force teams to respect some play action. No need for drastic Allen changes here - just some support and balance in the offense. Allen's short game - one comment you made that I almost agree with, but I will add a twist. I think Allen can make most or all of the short throws, but is consistently looking beyond the sticks. He just needs some coaching and experience to shift to taking more of the easy shots that defenses are giving him underneath and that comes with experience making pre-snap reads, a better supporting cast so he doesn't feel like he has to do it all, and time.

Was going through all my thoughts about the value of aggregate stats vs. game by game metrics to show how rookie QBs are trending, what my eyes are telling me about Allen's progress, and the lack of any run game support.... and realized it was mostly all here in your post. I did think that pass protection held up reasonably well at NE, but that was probably more due to Belichick instructing his defensive line that they had to stay gap-disciplined and to not let Josh escape as their #1 priority vs some quantum leap in that group's collective ability. Allen looked like a rookie against NE and made some poor decisions and throws, but he also made some jaw-dropping good plays - and that is the story of most rookie QBs with talent. My eyes tell me that Josh is on a good learning trajectory, that he throws balls away now when he would never do that before. He rarely takes sacks for a loss which he did earlier in the year. He is recognizing defenses and although he misfired on some of his throws, it is amazing that he is recognizing where to go with the ball compared to how lost he was earlier in the year. He is even looking off the safeties more than he did earlier in the season when he tended to lock on one receiver the whole way. Does he still make those mistakes - yes, but they are trending in the right downward direction. The physical tools all seem to be there, and I do think he can make every throw, and will make more of them as the game slows down for him and his anticipation allows him to step into those throws with the right touch. Will add my beer to the one's you collected already.

I think we are in agreement on the personnel moves. The Bills also lose contain on the edges too, so some coaching or personnel changes need to happen there, or those may become less of an issue when they get some of their starters healthy again. When I say that our RZ defense is caused by our inability to stop the run I am just using the simple math of: The Bills are rated #1 overall in pass defense. They drop to 19th in run defense. In the RZ they drop even further to I believe 29th. If the Bills could get TFL on running plays they would probably not be 19th overall, but that only happens when the runner is met at the gap or behind the line. Obviously, the Bills front and linebackers are not getting in position or winning those battles (you can't put that all on Star). Our DEs have been a bit undisciplined with the gap control and containing the edges too which forces our first year DBs to come up in run support which can be painful to watch. When teams have shown run all the way in the Red Zone (2 TE and a FB) the Bills, more often than not, cannot stop them - it may take 2 runs or 3, but teams have been able to drive the ball into the end zone rather consistently - hence I use the term running the ball down our throat. I am sure there has to be one or two other times where they have made a stop, but I have only seen the Bills defend the run successfully in a red zone series once - and that was in Miami - where Lorax had a TFL, and they then put together a dominant defensive series even then they almost blew it because Jordan Phillips had a brain fart and drew a penalty show boating against his former team.

As much as I really like Milano's play, he was not tearing it up as a run stopper either. The Bills have been suspect all year - just look at our red zone stops when teams just run it down our throats. Milano is a guy who can play all over the field and who has great ball instincts, but if a blocker gets hands on him it is over. NE just decided to run the ball period - not just in the red zone. We need another space eater and that isn't Phillips - seems more in the penetrating mold like Kyle, but his feet need to grow a heck of a lot more before he fills those shoes. After that, they need to move Edmunds (who seemed to skip the basic classes of reading his triangle keys) outside and get a linebacker through FA or draft that can play the middle and has a nose for the ball. Do those two things and grandpa noodle-arm in NE wont be able to rely on running the ball at will like they did to us on Sunday. I like our pass defense, and for the most part it is the reason our defense is rated so highly. That being said, I saw a lot of whiffs by our safeties and corners on the edges where they should have had contain on NE's RB. Those secondary starters (a lot of them did not start the year as starters) need some coaching up on taking good angles, forcing a runner to change direction, and gang tacking. Get the right personnel and go back to the basics of reading, reacting, and execution.

Thanks Kyle - appreciate all the hard work you put in for the Bills. Best wishes to you and your family on your retirement.

This. There are worse candidates that have been handed the reigns, and Daboll has the connections to pull together a coaching staff and that is more than half the battle. Folks should be careful what they wish for - Daboll is far from the worst OC I have seen calling plays for the Bills. I would like to have him around for another year with a more capable o-line to see what he can do with it.

I am not overly high on this years crop of WRs, it could just be a bad year for college QBs dragging down the measurables too. Bills do not need another smurf so my list would be Metcalf Riley Ridley Kelvin Harmon seems slow to me, does not get off of press cleanly, tends to trap the ball with his body, used more on underneath routes. A J Brown is an intriguing prospect - decent size and skills, can beat press coverage and catches with his hands, seems Ol' Miss had an embarrassment of WR riches N'Keal Harry - He's been productive, just doesn't seem very quick, doesn't get a lot of separation, and tends to trap the ball. Not sure how he would handle an Allen pass. Would like to see his 40 time. Some others: Preston Williams - hard to tell what you have with that Colorado offense, but the kid good size, ran good routes, used outside, inside, and on sweeps. He gets behind defenses, catches with his hands and has pretty tough RAC. Jalen Hurd - great size, good to elite speed, excellent RAC. There is a bit of a story there when he asked the Tennessee coaching staff who were using him successfully as a running back to switch him to playing outside more at WR, said his body was taking too much of a beating. At 6' 4" I can't imagine him not making one heck of a target at RB. They disagreed and he ended up switching schools - nothing I see in the Baylor tapes show me a kid that has mailed it in... they use him all over the place and he makes plays, and he has even run between the tackles for them on some red zone situations. Only one year starting at the position so he is a bit raw, but his success at Baylor makes me think that his ceiling is pretty high - just needs some coaching up recognizing coverages, beating press, etc.. Anthony Johnson - Sure he played at Buffalo and you worry about the competition, but the kid found success even when every defense was keying on him.

I think Croom is your new KB - same measurables, but with better hands and compete. Now if we can just get him to run better routes and to make better decisions. Clay is toast, but this is a good draft for TE's IMO who have above average blocking ability yet can still create matchup problems for LBs and safeties. FA can be tapped to find better blocking possession-type TE's to fill out the roster. I don't know if I believe in the #1 WR concept so much as I like the QB to spread the ball around, but every team could use an elite talent at WR that can usually beat single coverage and has reliable hands - especially the way Josh likes to stretch the field; It is not the greatest draft for that though. I see Foster as a potential #2 as his game is going in the right direction and the 3rd spot is open for grabs with McKenzie in the slot, but all I want in that role is someone who has hands and who can RAC.

Too funny, when Howard comments that Robert Foster has been a nice find at WR and Zay had improved in year 2 McShay says those should be your #3 and #4 WRs. I appreciated too that he mentioned that Allen, does not have a good supporting cast, the o-line needs to be improved, and that Allen has been carrying the offense and should not have been asked to do that as a rookie. I don't mind Allen getting the reps with a terrible supporting cast around him as long as he stays healthy and can keep progressing as a QB. I can't wait for OBD to make upgrades and build around him this off season so he can see more success - also being able to trust and utilize other capable players on offense will help curb that side of Josh that tries to do too much, and will help him grow as a better manager of the game. I guess even those outside our the Bills org can see what is plain to see.

I have seen years where Clay was our best receiver out there - maybe that says more about our receivers over the years than Clay himself. There has been a steady decline, and his ability to stay healthy has been an issue. Beane and McD are going to have to do some house cleaning as part of clearing high-salary players who could be reasonably replaced by less expensive players who can contribute as much or more to the team. This draft is pretty deep with TE's that look like they could succeed at the next level. Shady is a similar situation. I believe they are using Croom in the WR role they were looking at KB to fill. At 6'5" 245 lbs and legit 4.6 speed he is in the same mold, but a faster version of Benjamin, particularly since the knee injury KB had. He has shown better hands than KB, but his decision-making, route-running, and blocking are a work in progress. I do feel that overall he is an upgrade over Kelvin who does not seem to be trending in the right direction for KC - still a bit early to close the book but 2 targets for 1 catch, and then 2 targets for 0 catches... Not sure how many more years Shady has in the tank, but to me it is clear that he has not fully recovered from the concussion and hammy injuries. Even with that, for the past two years I have seen less of that elusiveness and burst for yards that he was known for and more dancing and getting stopped by the first guy who gets to him behind the line. The wise move is to move him and his salary to clear a roster spot for a running back who has a chance to be a more regular contributor. I know I can get a bit brutal commenting on our veteran players that are not getting it done anymore during games. In hindsight I don't think it is very cool to bash players who just hit the wall with age and/or injuries while playing for our team and simply can't get it done anymore - unless they are trying to shift the blame for not getting it done. Not calling out anyone, just a moment of self-reflection - tis the season and all that.

Wont argue with you. There is nothing more frustrating for a coach than to put your player in position to make the play and they whiff on a weak arm tackle or have bad technique. Can't say that does not happen with the Bills. That being said, when I talk about in game changes I am not talking about a complete overhaul of your game plan, it is more about making some tweaks in alignment or personnel to adjust to what the other team is doing, or how well your starters are executing the game plan. I am fully aware that there are times you cannot do a damn thing because you have what you have. Usually the drop in talent is a bit less pronounced the closer you get to pro-level talent, but the gaps in player abilities are also under a microscope and more readily exploited by opposing teams. Seeing what we saw of the Bills, if I were game-planning against the Bills I would use some misdirection runs, counters, that isolate Edmunds as he still bites on play action and misdirects and struggles to recover and be in position with good technique and leverage. I would also isolate runs on the edges against defensive alignments where I believe Wallace would have to come up in run support because, coverage ability aside, the kid hurts the eyes when he "tries" to make a tackle. If we see that, then Frazier sees that too. The question is, how does he prepare his starters to respond if Miami has not mailed it in and tries to take advantage of what they saw in the NE tape?

Being a good HC IMO is more about "who you know" and your ability to pull together a viable staff. Leslie has been around the league long enough and should have those kinds of contacts. Just a matter of convincing owners you are a good fit for the role after that. Not sure why, but I think Leslie could do the job. He supposedly turned down the Colts HC position, saying that it was not a good role... they are not doing too terribly this year. He did spend time with the Vikings as an interim HC, and they seemed better prepared and he did settle things down and got a team that was spiraling out of control to 3-3. Some folks got rankled because I said that he may not be the best sideline coach, but in fairness I think he puts the players where they need to be to be successful if they are capable of executing the scheme he has come up with - sometimes they are not. I feel there are times he is a bit too conservative in a defense that should feature the blitz more often (especially against rookie QB's), but being an HC is a different skill set and I cannot say that he would not be an improvement over some of the guys out there now serving as HCs.

No worries - that game left a vomit taste in my mouth too.

Nothing specific in the Patriots game comes to mind - was not really focusing on that one game in particular so sorry if that is where you thought that was going. Against NE the Bills were up against a coach who knew what most of us on the Wall have known all year - that the Bills have been suspect at stopping the run, even when going with their run-stopping package in the red zone they have struggled to get it done. Belichick just decided to keep running the ball till the Bills could prove they could stop it. They couldn't. That is personnel, lack of push from the d-line, execution - lack of fill and/or tackling from Edmunds, and a few times lack of discipline and contain on the edges. My comment was more a sense of how Frazier has done over the course of the year and my thoughts around his interaction with McDermott and why McDermott may want to go with a DC he has worked with before and may mesh with better.

The dreaded 30 Year wall for running backs. The team would be better served with young RBs with reasonable salaries who can stay on the field. I love what Shady did for this team - was the only exciting thing on offense for years, but it is time to move on and wish him godspeed.

Coaches do it all the time, it is not just halftime where adjustments and personnel match-ups are worked out. There are coaches who thrive on making adjustments during a game...they treat football like it is a game of speed chess, others seemed to freeze up more and need the game to stop for them to process how they are getting beat and how to counter that. That is often why some guys no matter how knowledgeable about their X's and O's never move beyond being position coaches to OC or DC. Like all things it is not black and white, but rather a scale of ability. I believe when McD took the reigns from Frazier earlier this year, that was exactly what was going on. I am not hating on Frazier, he is a good coach, but there may be a better mesh for this staff and team with Wilks.

Not sure how much these stats matter to me. 5 QBs in very different situations with different skill sets. All of them have the capability to be NFL starters and are in fact, starting for their respective teams. Mayfield seems the most NFL-ready of the bunch. I have a hard time comparing Darnold to Allen as the Bills did not register a hit on Darnold the last time we played the Jets, and they have a running back in McGuire who is getting it done. It is no coincidence that Darnold's game has improved over his disastrous early games as his o-line protection issues have settled down and they have a complimentary rushing attack. Also, they have different skill sets as I cannot envision Darnold breaking any NFL rushing records. That being said, Darnold looks good when stepping into his throws from a clean pocket, and also had nice touch on his TD throw on the run when playing us. Props to him as the Jets look like they have a keeper. I would like to see how he performs with some actual pass rushing pressure and getting occasionally hit. Allen has grown in my eyes, is an amazing athlete and only Rosen has as bad a supporting cast and we know how he is doing... Jackson is doing a good job using his legs like Allen to get it done, and is pretty good with ball placement on the run. He has decent support, and is doing well in their system. As one poster mentioned, I would like to see how he does when teams start forcing him to play more in the pocket. Out of all of these, I firmly believe that Allen's skills have the most upside. Is he there yet, heck no, but it will be fun to watch what he is able to do with a better supporting cast, more experience, and coaching. Either way, this class of 2018 QB's may end up being something really special.

There was one real positive of watching that rather painful game and that was listening to Bruce Arians in the booth making comparisons between Josh Allen and Andrew Luck who he had coached before in Indy. He saw a lot of similarities to their rookie growing pains. He mentioned that Luck used to think he could run people over early in his NFL career, but learned as every QB does to protect themselves. Josh is bigger and faster, but he chuckled and said he was sure the coaches probably do not want him lowering his shoulder and taking on tacklers for extra yards. To me, it seemed there was nothing he wanted to do more than jump down to the sideline and start coaching Allen. You can tell when coaches have the itch. He kept talking like he was on the sidelines, "kid, you don't have to throw a TD pass on every play just take what the defense is giving you". He mentioned that being a "game manager" is kind of looked down on, but there are times when a QB has to be patient and take what the defense is giving you and that is fine as it keeps your defense off the field when you can sustain drives. He was not surprised or very critical, rather just pointed out that these were things that rookie QBs did and that the patience will come with experience. He noted what a lot of us have seen and that is that defenses know that Josh likes to push the ball down the field so their corners and safeties play off our receivers on the underneath routes, but Josh does not like taking the 5-8 yard check down passes that are open and would rather wait for the deeper routes to develop which can lead to protection break downs and broken plays when he could check it down to an underneath route and get the offense in more manageable down and distance. He also said there were times that Josh went to Foster and overlooked other routes simply because rookie QBs tend to lock onto the guy they trust the most so it was just a case of a rookie going to his favorite rookie WR on the team. I felt that he was excited by what he saw in Allen and repeatedly said that he will learn to make those better reads, praised him for his accuracy on many of his throws, then chided him for floating that shallow out that ended in his second pick, and for staring down his intended receiver which brought the safety over for that 1st pick. I think Allen has "it", but I am a Bills fan so doubt is part of my DNA. Perhaps that is why I really enjoyed listening to his thoughts, mirrored a lot of my own, and it was comforting hearing from someone that has spent time with and developed really good NFL QBs talk about Allen as a legit NFL rookie QB who has all the tools and simply needs more time and experience to hone his game.

I have felt for a while now that Frazier is a bit more laid back than McD's approach and his forte does not seem to be "in game" management of the "D". In that, I simply mean that it seems to take a while or discussion over half-time before he makes the adjustments that the D needs to make - sometimes the net effect is that our team is already in a hole by the time he figures out how to stop the other team from digging the hole any deeper. Outside of that, he is a good team guy and usually his players play hard for him. Still not sure yesterday if I was seeing a defense mailing-it-in or simply put so off their game plan by their inability to stop the run that it made the whole effort seem ugly - granted they did get a few turnovers.