Tyrod's friend

great. We'll see how this plays out. And yeah, I know you love the guy. Personally, I don't love the guy. I'd point out that the team with the first pick in the draft already HAS a QB that is shorter than 6'2" and they went out of their way to get him. But he's off the board before the second pick is called. Cheers.

Is this the height issue? Because if it is, and you are trying to make a case for Rosen you have to know what I'm going to say about that.

I'll take that bet. Go ahead and give me odds. He's #1, and he's #1 going away. Best QB in this draft and it isn't even close.

Taylor, traded to Arizona early in the season to replace the injured Bradford. Baker Mayfield becomes the starting QB by October 1. Stanton continues to hold clipboard for the next two years.

For real. The third of three Dlineman picked in the first round from the same team, and we got the last. Talk about sloppy seconds.

It ain't Buffalo, you know? But I get some Cincy chili when I want it. Didn't you hear? Sam Bradford is already injured. Southwest food, here I come!

LMAO. Because Ryan Leaf said so. Baker Mayfield is going #1 overall and he will haunt your life.

At one point I was big on Lamar because he was a Erhardt/Perkins scheme QB. But the GM has pointed out that OC's come and go and he wouldn't let that dictate his choice (Daboll wondering WTF?). Could be smoke screen, maybe not. FWIW? Mayfield. #1 overall is the way I see it.

If we'll include that year (MCM), then Doug Flutie is on my list. He just made things happen and probably the best football IQ in franchise history outside of Jim Kelly.

What is interesting is that the Ravens have been competitive nearly the entirety of their franchise history. The Vikings have definitely been competitive the last three years. SO if the Ravens have been extremely competitive, in a tough division, and the Vikings have won the last three years ... doesn't that go to show you that it isn't an impossible path, but becomes so when you can't evaluate talent generally? You know what? If the Browns really f up and taken Allen or Barkley or Chubb or whatever at #1, and the Giants make it possible to get the best QB prospect in the last five years (Baker Mayfield), maybe you are right. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-baker-mayfields-tape-numbers-say-he-should-be-no-1-overall-pick

Oddly enough, I 100% disagree. Respectfully. Surely you should take the QB with the most ability; that's a truism. I am saying that if you want to go to the Super Bowl, it remains a team game. The most important element remains the QB. But he must be surrounded by talent and opening your cabinet and selling everything you have won't work. Ever. EVER. It shocks me to my core that there are people saying "do whatever it takes". Nope. And especially with a team like we have, that really, is devoid of tier 1 talent. The only reach is any draft that puts an immobile, injury prone QB behind an offensive line not capable of protecting him - with no hope bring on any help along that offensive line through the draft. Where the major upgrade to a depleted reservoir of line talent was bringing in a truly terrible center and having to over pay to get that limited talent. By all means, let's empty the cupboard and go get the concussed Rosen, give him literally the worst WR group and stick him behind Turnstile Mills. What could possibly go wrong there?

You won't get a chance. Advanced metrics show that Baker Mayfield is far ahead - like in a different leagues - than any other prospect in the NFL draft today. This information has been widely disseminated to the NFL GMs. All of the T-shirt workouts and scrimmage bull (Senior Bowl) have been a sham. So what did the Browns do? They traded for a 6'1" QB. It was widely thought of as a waste of capital at the time. You have to know, when everyone talks about what a mistake you've made that often there is a plan behind what appears idiocy. A 6'1" wirey, mobile QB. And then they put some pieces into place around that QB, like a 100 catch WR that can move the chains and a capable running back. They'll draft Mayfield because it will appease their fan base. The new QB will look in size amazingly like Tyrod Taylor and what's more, can sit behind him (LOL) for a year if need be. But more than that, it will drive the price of the Giants #2 pick into the stratosphere. It veritably puts the Buffalo Bills into a no-win situation. They will have to give up the farm to get Sam-Rosen or the Mafia will string them up. And in the end, what does this do? It assures the Browns get the best overall player in the draft, at #4 - a player that will transform them like Ezekiel Elliot did, like LaDanian Tomlinson did. Saquon Barkley won't be asked to carry the offense with Hyde, Njoko, Gordon and Landry he could. 14 of the last 16 years the AFC has been represented by one of 3 QBs. Baker Mayfield is the next generation and the Browns have played this to a tee. Just like Russell Wilson, like Jared Goff, Mayfield will be supported by a great infrastructure. All along the Browns have been playing chess, while the rest of the league has been playing checkers. And the Bills will have been forced probably to take a disaster in Josh Rosen - it will create a nightmare scenario. A statuesque QB, prone to injury, behind a bad offensive line and a player prone to trying to be a hero. Just a considered opinion.

100% correct.

I'm at a loss ... omg. Look, is striking me that your argument is the same damned one that every other poster wants to make here; that you can't get to the Super Bowl unless you draft a QB high. And you add in the comments that Russell Wilson was an outlier. We do agree to this much - there are a stack of appearances of guys in the Super Bowl not drafted high. He can't be the outlier, if his experience is not infrequent - if not the norm. To that extent, he's not the only one since the 2012 draft. It's almost becoming the norm to be drafted later and outperforming the guys at the top. Is Jimmy Garrapolo an example of a team getting "lucky". Then the Cowboys must be lucky too; they got a 1st year, 1st team Pro Bowl QB in the 4th. How are all these players just "lucky" and "outliers"? Put a quality guy, from any round selected in a situation where his surrounded by a good team and good things happen. There just isn't that much differentiating players in the NFL today - if there was, you wouldn't have backups getting $20MM deals and making the playoffs.

? Yes, half the QBs in the Super Bowl did NOT come from the first round. You are saying that you need to draft a QB high in order to get to the Super Bowl in a previous post. That is just not true if half the QBs in the Super Bowl are not 1st round picks/ high picks. It's not. Russell is NOT the outlier if half the Super Bowl QBs were drafted after the first.

In other news ... Donald Trump has called California delegates to reconsider their Presidential preferences.

The Browns are more likely to be interested in future first round picks than anything from this years draft. #1 2019 #1 2020 + #12

When you draft a guy and don't have infrastructure ... Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV 2016 22 LAR qb 16 7 7 0-7-0 112 205 54.6 1089 5 2.4 7 3.4 66 5.3 4.3 9.7 155.6 63.6 18.9 26 222 3.75 2.82 11.3 -2 The Rams went ahead and got themselves a LT, 2 WR and the best offensive minds. when you draft a guy and you have infrastructure ... Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV 2012* 24 SEA QB 3 16 16 11-5-0 252 393 64.1 3118 26 6.6 10 2.5 67 7.9 8.1 12.4 194.9 100.0 72.7 33 203 6.84 7.01 7.7 3 4 16 Two guys drafted before they got a QB in the 2012 draft. Misc Passing Rushing Receiving Rnd Player Pick Pos Yrs From To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD College/Univ 1 Bruce Irvin 15 DE 6 2012 2017 0 0 5 35 90 West Virginia 2 Bobby Wagner 47 LB 6 2012 2017 3 4 6 73 88 Utah St. In order to get to the point of drafting Wilson in the 4th round, they passed on 2 QBs - both widely thought to be a reach (Osweiler and Weeden). More lies. Half the starting QBs in the Super Bowl were not drafted in the first round. It can't all be "luck" when it happens that frequently. So just stop with the bull ****.

Stop overdrafting? Maybe there's something to that idea. Since 2012 rookie cap there have been two solid drafts for QBs with plenty of depth. In both cases, I think it will prove out over the long term that the best QB was picked later. No matter how much value you attach to the position, you can find quality all over the board. It's about evaluation process and available inventory. PLAYER POS HT WT COLLEGE PICK TEAM GRADE WATCH Luck, Andrew QB 6'4" 234 Stanford Pick 1, Round 1 (1) Colts 97.0 Griffin III, Robert QB 6'2" 223 Baylor Pick 2, Round 1 (2) Redskins 95.0 Tannehill, Ryan QB 6'4" 221 Texas A&M Pick 8, Round 1 (8) Dolphins 87.0 Weeden, Brandon QB 6'4" 221 Oklahoma St. Pick 22, Round 1 (22) Browns 83.7 Osweiler, Brock QB 6'7" 242 Arizona State Pick 25, Round 2 (57) Broncos 83.5 Cousins, Kirk QB 6'3" 214 Michigan St. Pick 7, Round 4 (102) Redskins 73.0 Foles, Nick QB 6'5" 243 Arizona Pick 25, Round 3 (88) Eagles 71.0 Wilson, Russell QB 5'11" 204 Wisconsin Pick 12, Round 3 (75) Seahawks 68.5 PLAYER POS HT WT COLLEGE PICK TEAM GRADE WATCH Bortles, Blake QB 6'5" 232 Central Florida Pick 3, Round 1 (3) Jaguars 6.2 Bridgewater, Teddy QB 6'2" 214 Louisville Pick 32, Round 1 (32) Vikings 6.1 Carr, Derek QB 6'2" 214 Fresno St. Pick 4, Round 2 (36) Raiders 6.1 Manziel, Johnny QB 6'0" 207 Texas A&M Pick 22, Round 1 (22) Browns 6.1 Garoppolo, Jimmy QB 6'2" 226 Eastern Illinois Pick 30, Round 2 (62) Patriots 5.8 McCarron, AJ QB 6'3" 220 Alabama Pick 24, Round 5 (164) Bengals 5.7 And of course, if you want to go with 2016 the most productive QB to this point has actually been Dak Prescott from the 4th round. And I'll tell you what - there's no WAY I'd give up a king's ransom just to get Jared Goff instead of Prescott. And nobody in the NFL would either.

The team is already not doing "what we've always done", and they aren't avoiding a QB at all costs. Not moving up <> avoiding a QB at all costs.

In the AFC, maybe. 14 of the last 16 Super Bowls have been started by either Ben, Peyton or Tom. One is retired and the other two are fading. Since the 2000 matchup, you are as likely to see a starting Super Bowl QB that was drafted after the 2nd round as you are a 1st rounder. Other than the Mannings, it's almost never a guy that was drafted 1st or 2nd in his year. At the end of the day, if McBeane likes a guy and they make the move who am I to say jackshit? I've proven that I'll watch these jokers no matter who they put on the field. I still have a Fitzgerald/Johnson t-shirt. Cheers and thank god the sun is finally shining in WNY.

If you draft good players, and keep them, and they aren't necessarily QBs, you can do fine. But the Bills * notably are poor in the draft and * when they have a good player, they let them go. When I think about it, since the early 90s I can't think of any franchise players we've ever drafted and truly kept outside of Kyle Williams. The Baltimore Ravens really haven't had a really good QB since the franchise was founded. (Don't you EVEN talk about Flacco as really good). Ozzie Newsome had an incredible record of finding talent; they kept the best and augmented as necessary, and they are competitive each and every year. They've never, ever "reached" for a QB. It looks to me like Andy freaking Dalton averaged about 10-11 wins in his first five years of starting in Cincinnati. Bengals didn't leap up to get him. The Vikings have averaged nearly 11 wins in the last three years without jumping to get a QB and in fact starting three different QBs. I'm sure there are other examples over time. There's a lot of paths to excellence. I think Bills fans are impacted because of Brady; but don't tell me "you can get stick to your board when you already have your franchise QB". Stick the board, retain the quality players, and eventually the board will provide you with a winning culture and team. It's the Jets. Mark Sanchez was the last guy they did this with, and they've been the freaking Israelites, wandering around the desert without a QB for literally 50 years since Namath. I'd say the likelihood is pretty good they screwed up again.

I was actually making a reference to Josh Allen (the must have butterfly, that did so well today at his Pro day), as a means to supporting Mason Rudolph. I think he could start in the NFL early; I think he has the physique to handle the hits, he hits his receivers in stride and he doesn't make a ton of mistakes. And at any rate, I think arm strength can be overrated. Tom Brady was never thought of as a strong-armed QB. Hit the open receiver (or lead the receiver open) and you can get away with a world of arm questions. Sure it would help with WNY winds.

Sorry - no I didn't. I am NOT talking about college stats; that's an absurd argument and not one I was making. Professional numbers. If you weren't in such a rush to try to prove me wrong you wouldn't be trotting out what Russell Wilson did at Wisconsin. Look, the whole point of where I am going is that people here and across football are saying that Josh Allen will magically improve his stats when he gets to the professional ranks, that he needs to work with somebody and he'll do this magic leap in his completion percentage. I have proven this over and again, USING YOUR EXAMPLES, that this simply DOES NOT HAPPEN. Did Allen's receivers drop the ball? Let's turn it around. Did Allen throw catchable balls? Have you ever tried to catch a 65 MPH ball bear handed? There's a reason rocket arms have bad completion percentages. Joe Montana. Chad Pennington. Tom Brady. None of these guys have a rocket but they throw a catchable ball. You know who does have a rocket? Matt Stafford, and for most of his career he had Megatron as his target. After he maintained the starting gig in Detroit in '11 and for the next four years he completed 60% of his passes. Oddly enough, the same 60% he completed when he was at Georgia (and for those that don't remember, it was the most talented offensive teams in the history of football. Massaquo, AJ Green, Knowshon Moreno. You've heard of his LT - Cordy Glenn). I'll say that Matt is the one guy that did improve his % in the pros ... after he was in Detroit for 8 years. SO please, don't tell me I'm purposely dense when you didn't take the time to read what I was saying.

Every year, some guy puts on a pair of shorts and first at the combine and then at some Pro Day - with his hand picked receivers running 60 or 70 very carefully scripted routes - destroys three years of poor performances and emerges as the must-have butterfly. Same story every year; we need to re-learn the lessons that you can't recreate game tape.