Shaw66

They were 5th and 3rd the year before, essentially the same. So, how do we know that Dorsey did anything? It didn't look to me that he did much.

They had the same offense they had in 2021, and it wasn't Dorsey's offense. I didn't see a lot of Dorsey in the 2022 offense; it seemed like the offense just was an extension of the previous season. So, I don't see how that means he's one of the 10 best coordinators. As I said, a lot of people could have stepped into that job last season and gotten the same performance out of the offense.

Well, yeah, I would be top 10, too, if I inherited Daboll's offense and I had Josh. I'm far from convinced that Dorsey should be anywhere near the top of this list. There's not enough evidence that he should be on it at all. This off-season noise is really a joke.

Actually, flat was Cowherd's word, and Dawkins agreed with it. I think he agreed because it was the easy way out. My impression was that there's a story behind what happened, and he didn't want to talk about it. He said it was a really difficult time, and somehow it just all came together badly in that game. He didn't say more in part, I think, because he didn't want to sound like he was making excuses. I think it'll be years before we hear the full story. After they win a Super Bowl, after these guys are retired, some time. For now, there's radio silence.

I think he's an emotional risk. Bills already have one kind of prickly star wideout, and adding a second is a risk. I've talked before about GM, the book the Giants GM wrote about building their Super Bowl team. He said no team can win with three prima donnas, and it's really hard to win with two. One you can manage. Diggs is one. Hopkins has the potential to be the second. One of things that made OBJ such a great addition for the Rams was that he came with a team-first attitude, something he hadn't shown consistently at his earlier stops.

Hopkins over Floyd or Poyer. Not over both. I think Hopkins is a risk. There are reasons he was traded and now is an unsigned FA.

I don't watch every interview with every player, but this is one worth every minute. Good stuff. Good insights. Good way to get to know Dawkins. Thanks for posting it.

We sort of agree. Whether Josh gets injured or not, he almost certainly will not be running five years from now like he was running two years ago. The wear and tear on players is simply too great to expect them to continue to play like they did in their early 20s. Nathan Peterman is exactly the point. Super Bowl quarterbacks are great game managers and decision makers. Brady, Mahomes, Montana, Rodgers. Great quarterbacks are elite in that area, and whether they can run or not is pretty much irrelevant. Allen's highlight reels are fabulous and Brady's are boring. Running is a nice piece of his game, but if he doesn't get the presnap and postsnap reads right, running can't save him. That's exactly what we've seen from Josh. Spectacular as he is running the ball, running QBs don't win Super Bowls. That's why no matter how many unbelievable runs we see from Lamar Jackson, he's not my quarterback. And although I can see the logic behind saying the Bills need to be better at drafting offensive linemen in the first and second round, it just isn't that simple when you're picking at #28. The Bills really needed a corner back last season, and pretty much no one was complaining when they took Elam. Elite tackles are almost always gone by then, and it's very unusual to take a guard in the first round. So, they got their guard in the second round this season. Similarly, stud wideouts are hard to find - it's easy in hindsight, but late-first-round wideouts often flame out. Most second-round receivers have little impact in their rookie seasons. Again, I'm not saying there isn't some logic in what you say, but I don't think it's as simple as you think. Even given that, they took Kincaid. I don't see much reason to complain about how they've acquired talent. This league is about quarterback play - it's about having a coach on the field taking snaps, elite, cerebral talent. And it's about creative offensive play design and play calling. It's likely the Bills will have a better offensive line this season, with Brown healthy, and two new guards who both will challenge for starting jobs. They have a better collection of receivers, particularly if Kincaid does what everyone expects of him. The Bills' success will depend on whether Dorsey can prepare an effective offensive, and where Josh can execute it. Where we agree is that an effective offense is NOT expecting Josh to be Superman carrying the ball. It's a bad solution for the short term and for the long term.

Actually, I don't think the fundamental point is about running and risk of injury, although I agree that if Josh keeps running, he's going to get hurt, and he's going to slow down. The fundamental point is as I said earlier - he needs to be a better decision maker on the field. He needs to be a better passer, finding the right guys and hitting them. He isn't good enough at that yet and oddly enough, his running has something to do with that. When Josh doesn't make the right decision, he often runs, and his running turns a bad play into a good play. The result is that he isn't forced to learn how to make the right decisions. As for Derrick Henry - look up his stats. The guy gained 1500 yards rushing last season, had more receptions than in any previous season, and he did that even though he isn't a three-down back. I don't think there's any reason to conclude he's "slowing down considerably." As for your last paragraph, it's simply a truism: In order to have a good chance of making it to the Super Bowl, you have to have a stud quarterback. The Chiefs aren't winning consistently without Mahomes, nor the Bengals without Burrow, etc. Roethlisberger was a serious running threat when he was young - not like Josh, but he ran well and hurt teams because he was big and picked his spots. Then he got banged up, more and more, and eventually he couldn't run much at all. But he played a lot of good football later in his career because he kept getting smarter and smarter with the ball. The point is, Josh's mobility, or the loss of it, is not what's going to determine how successful he and his teams are going to be. It's his quarterbacking skill. When he can manage the game, play after play, like Mahomes and Brady, he'll win all day long, because NOBODY throws like Josh.

I think this is the wrong perspective on Josh. What gives him no limitations is his arm. He could be the best purr thrower ever. Running is an important, additional feature, but if he never ran at all but he learned to manage the game and read the field like Brady, he'd be the best QB ever, because Brady could only dream of throwing like Josh. Michael Vick was the best running QB ever. Josh never will run like him. Vick had an excellent arm. But he never was a great QB because he never became a top level decision making pocket passer. Josh has the brains to be elite in the pocket, and if he learns to be that, his arm will make him a deadly QB. His running will be an incredible bonus. If he never learns, his running won't make him elite, just like running never made Vick elite.

Those skills you're talking about, running skills, don't win Super Bowls. See Newton, Lamar, Vick. Being the smartest passer in the pocket does. See Brady, Montana, Mahomes. Josh needs to be an alite decision maker. When he's elite like Brady, Montana, and Mahomes, he will be better than any of them because of his arm and legs.

It's this attitude that drives me crazy. As MJS said, the drought has nothing to do with it. And the Super Bowl losses have nothing to do with it. Your personal disappointment has nothing to do with it. Whether the Bills win a Super Bowl has nothing to do with the "many." And history will be what it will be. And I don't believe it, for a minute, when Josh and all these guys say they're objective is to win a Super Bowl for the fans. There's one thing going on here, and only one thing. It's sports competition. It's a team of 60-odd players and 20-odd coaches with a personal burning desire to win a championship. Many of us tried to do that in high school, in one sport or another, and some of us tried to do it in college. Most of us have had the experience at one time or another - trying to win the championship. The Bills are trying to win a Lombardi, one of the toughest championships in the world for a team to win. It takes talent, hard work, determination, guts, and a half dozen other things. It's really difficult. Really difficult. The only thing relevant to the conversation about Beane and McDermott is whether they are the right people to do something that's very difficult to do. That's all. Whether one fan or million want them to win doesn't matter. Whether there is some bad history to be erased, whether it's the drought or the four Super Bowls, or whatever, doesn't matter. And whether no coach has won a Super Bowl after five years of coaching or ten years of coaching doesn't matter. Whether Mike Tomlin won one in his second season doesn't matter. NONE of it matters. All that matters is whether Beane and McDermott are the right people. MJS is correct.

Bills would have won a Lombardi if they had Thurman instead of Motor. Would have won a couple if they OJ instead of Thurman.

And OJ.

All these guides over here are telling me about Euripides and Pericles and John Clees. Learned it all from Mr. Reed, 10th grade World History.

I went to a good high school!

They seem similar to me.

Why isn't he more revered? Well, us old guys remember Joe Ferguson, and Joe was the real deal. Tyrod wishes he could play like Joe.

This time of year is horrible. No Bills news. Just waiting for training camp to start, and hoping no one gets arrested for doing something stupid. The measure of how bad it is is that people actually are reading this thread.

Very little sports clothing in Europe, except soccer stuff. Ive seen one Cubs hat, a few Yankees caps, and one Chiefs Super Bowl tee shirt.

Yes, I am. I thought about not posting, but I realized that a LAMP would be an upgrade for the forum these days.

I broke out my blue Bills polo shirt to wear to the Acropolis today. Through the mobs of people, an excited Buffalonian shouted, "GO BILLS!!!" We're everywhere.

I agree about this. They haven't been intense enough in the okayoffs, and I'm sure McD knows that. And I fully expect to see more aggressive play calling on the defense, all season long. It adds to unpredictability, and McD likes that.

I don't think there is anything that McDermott doesn't get. McDermott sees what wins in the playoffs. Last season he didn't have the personnel to play any other way. As I said, I think if he has his starters in the playoffs next season, you'll see a different style of defense.

I think this analysis is correct. The data about Jackson and Elam point out the bend-don't-break nature of McDermott's defense. It's always frustrating to see how easily the Bills give up yardage, but at the end of the season the frustration has to be tempered by the fact that, on average over time, McD's defense stops teams better than others. The problem is that in the playoffs, you're not playing the averages - you're playing one game, and you have to stop people. Now, maybe the answer to that is to get White back healthy. When White's back in form, he can take his man man-to-man, especially if the offense lines up their #2 guy against him. When that happens, the Bills can double the other side, and with that defense the Bills get more stops, which is what's needed in the playoffs. Also, we just have to wait and see about Elam. He had good cover skills coming out of college, and we didn't see him stand out much in that area. Frankly, I think in college he didn't need much more than good cover skills, and he probably never learned much of anything about more sophisticated defensive backfield schemes, which the Bills run a lot of. He struggled with the defense most of last season. I'm hopeful that this season he'll be more comfortable in the defense, which will also make him more comfortable when he's in man. And I'm not counting Benford out, either. Bottom line, though, is that it's tough to win in the playoffs when your defensive scheme is bend-don't-break and your corners are mediocre, as this chart shows about Elam and Jackson. White-Elam-Johnson-Poyer-Hyde are the guys I want on the field in the playoffs.