Shaw66

I think he does, but that of course is one of the important questions for Taylor and about 20 other starting quarterbacks in the league. QBs like Flacco, Eli, Carson Wentz, Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton, Marcus Mariota, etc.

He brought a smile to the face of all who knew him. He brought more joy to Bills fans than Jeremy Maclin would have. He will be missed.

Since this thread is about Fahey and his stats, I'm going to say again that I take all this stuff with a grain of salt. Fahey is too young and uncredentialed for me to take him seriously. I mean, why in the world should I trust a stat he created that predicts what Taylor's yards per attempt would be if adjusted for wide receiver mistakes? That's a highly subjective and speculative stat, and I'm not inclined to put much stock in it until Fahey is a recognized expert. Fahey is a guy creating content for sale. He's built himself a little niche by taking deep dives into stats, and he produces interesting stuff, interesting in that people like to read it and it helps Football Outsiders and others fill their pages with content. It doesn't mean it's right or insightful or anything. Look up Bill James. He self-published his football stats for years, in virtual anonymity. He was nearly 40 before Billy Bean and Theo Epstein actually started using that data, that is, it took 15 years before people began to see that James's work had validity. And I have no doubt that James was just one of dozens of people out there concocting theories about and manipulating data to try to give greater insight into the game. I don't see any coaches or GMs quoting Fahey data to justify decisions about their QBs. If they aren't quoting him and using his stats, that means they don't think those stats are meaningful or helpful in the pursuit of quarterbacking excellence. If coaches and GMs don't think what Fahey is doing is useful, why should I? Wrong turn. This thread is much less interesting, but it's all we're left with for a few weeks. (Unless, in a cost cutting move, the Packers release Aaron Rodgers. THAT would make the Maclin thread look like a coffee break.) By the way, how do you like your coffee?

This stuff is very interesting and I'm inclined to agree with you. I've never liked Flacco all that much. However, it's a team game, and it's very difficult to give Flacco and Taylor complete credit or blame for a lot of this. It's just too hard to tell. What I can do is imagine Flacco at QB for the Bills instead of Taylor. I can't do the opposite, because I don't have a good sense of what the Ravens' offense is like. Imagining Flacco in the Bills' offense, Taylor is clearly better. Taylor's positive yardage plays with his legs would all be lost with Flacco at QB. And Flacco throwing 28 or 30 times a game just wouldn't be so much more effective than Taylor to overcome the difference Taylor creates running. But even then, it isn't a true comparison. If Flacco had been the Bills' QB for the past two seasons, the Bills would have thrown the ball a lot more. The offense would have been different. So the question isn't which QB is better? The question is which version of the Bills' offense would be better, the version built around Taylor or the version built around Flacco. I think THAT's a close question. Having said all that, your post is an excellent discussion, one of the best I've seen, of how effective Taylor actually has been. I'm perfecting willing to give the Taylor detractors the right to their opinions, and their opinions may actually be correct. What bothers me about the people who don't like Taylor is that they try to explain why the stats that make it clear that Taylor has been an effective QB for the Bills.

My rule is don't give up on high-end talent too early. Ragland is one of those guys who could be a major impact player in the defense for the next five years. No way do I trade him before we even have chance to look at him. Especially in the scenario you're talking about - trading a potential impact player who plays in the center of the field for a receiver that his original team doesn't want and who at best will become a number 2 wideout but more likely will simply be competing to for the 4th or fifth spot in the receiving corps. Makes no sense.

I feel the same about Holmes.

I liked Whaley. But you're right about this. Whaley was pretty good at getting good talent, but he didn't have a winning plan for the long of talent he needed. If he saw an opportunity to get a good player he got.him, regardless of the fit. Of course, he had a coach who also didn't have a plan. What we are seeing now is a coach who has a plan working with a gm who is on board with it. In the case of Maclin, for example, these coaches have seen Holmes and the others and they have an idea about Zay. What they've seen informed their judgment abiut how badly or not they needed a talent like Maclin.

I agree. Actually, Whaley did that generally too, but this front office seems.more disciplined. They know whom that want and they know how much they're willing to pay. That's how the Pats operate and it makes sense. One thing I like about it is that it pyts the responsibility to win on the HC. It says to the HC that he will have good talent at a fair price and the rest is up to him. And I think McD welcomes that challenge.

I like that idea.

So the two relevant questions about Maclin are 1. IS he wearing jeans today? and 2. Where is he eating tonight?

I guess that surprises me. I expected more sartorial diversity from you.

Went a way for a few hours and came back to find out if there's any news. Guess not, except for random unconfirmed air travel "sightings." But maybe those are true. Jeans? I don't see how anyone gets along without jeans. I have a rotation that requires about four pair. The newest pair is for casual dress. The next newest pair, the level my dress jeans fall too when it's time, is casual workman's shopplng and light work around the house. So if I'm going to some light yard work, the second pair is nice, and I still look halfway decent if a run to Home Depot becomes necessary. Sooner or later that pair gets some random paint stain or minor damage and it moves into the third spot, which is for more heavy duty work around the house but not for wear outside the house or in decent society (!). Don't care very much what happens to that paid, because if you spill paint on them or do something else that makes them generally a mess, they drop to the fourth spot in the rotation: paint pants and serious yard work. You could run the same rotation with cotton pants, but (1) they aren't as rugged for the back-end of my rotation and (2) they just aren't jeans.

Anf it's back to the Maclin watch!

Somebody tell OBD to sweeten the deal for Maclin. He'l get whatever was the last offer the Bills made, PLUS dinner prepared by a different Bills fan for the first thirty days he and his wife are living here. We've got a dozen meals or more already.

What's wrong with Maclin and the Bills? they aren't negotiating on Sunday? Their fans are waiting! Maybe they're trying out a few of these recipes. You guys are serious cooks. Last night it was just asparagus, fresh Italian sausage (hot and sweet) and peppers an onions, all on the grill. Then built a fire in the backyard and just chilled for a couple of hours. And now, back to football.

Not to dismiss a discussion about Crohns, which IS a nasty disease, but inquiring minds need to know if JM2009 is a reference to when you first became a Jeremy Maclin fan.

It ain't over yet.

So what do Bills fans do to get him to make the right decision?

The question is the magnitude of the "mistake." The magnitude is significantly smaller than this thread. Would Beane prefer it if Chris Brown hadn't hyped Maclin so much? Yes. Did Beane say something to Brown and his boss about it? Maybe. Does it make any difference in terms of the Bills' ability to win games or sell tickets? No.

People keep coming back to this thread, hoping for news. Holding on until the dagger has COMPLETELY pierced the heart.

He might be higher on the Bills' list, too, for the exact same reasons. Bills have been desperate for a red zone target.

We don't know what he wants, but the Bills know exactly what he wants. Both sides are pretty direct about what they want in these things. If they're close enough that they think they can make a deal, they talk about how they could restructure to get enough of what both sides want. Obviously, that process wasn't able to bridge the gap in Buffalo. Maybe it will work for Maclin in Baltimore, and maybe it won't. If it won't, he'll reconsider his own idea of his value and keep looking. It's important to remember that teams have wildly different views of the value of players. The value to any given team varies with the teams' cap situation, the talent it has at the same position, the age of the talent they have, the impact they think the player would have on the team's play. Beane and McDermott think about factors like that and other factors, and they decide what it's worth to pay for the player. The circumstances at the Ravens will generate a different number. It doesn't mean Beane was wrong and the Ravens guy was right. (Much like the Gillislee decision - just because he was worth $4 million to the Pats doesn't mean that he was worth $4 million to the Bills.)

First, I think what you're saying is correct, except that the way the Bills reported this is about how they always have done it. When press reports get to be pretty clear that something's going on, Chris Brown reports on the press reports. He doesn't report news like this with information from within. It's just outside news. And I believe they've also done interviews in the past with Bills players about they're interest in getting a guy. Not often, but occasionally. Still, seems to me that if I'm the GM I don't want my organization doing this. Second, you make it sound like it's an important lesson to be learned. This isn't a "hard lesson." This is a truly minor event, at most an irritant. Six months from now, if the Bills are over .500, NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE will be talking about the fact that the Bills may have overhyped the possibility of getting Maclin. If the Bills are below .500, some people may be ascribing it to the failure to get Maclin, but NO ONE will be complaining because Beane allowed Brown to overhype the possibility. It's about wins and losses and more or less nothing else. I said the same thing six months ago. Remember six months ago? The press was plastered with stuff saying the Bills were "dysfunctional," a dumpster fire" and all that. The Bills can't do anything right. The acting head coach got steam-rolled by the press at his first and maybe last Bills press conference. Then Whaley held a press conference and the press crucified him. Then the press went after Terry Pegula, because he doesn't handle the press well, either. Does ANYONE care about that now? ANYONE? Would you rather manage the press well than less well? Of course. Does failure to manage the press well cost the Bills money? Sure doesn't look like it. First, most of the revenue comes from the league, not anyone who reads the Bills home page. Second, the current level of management of public relations doesn't seem to have affected ticket sales. Did Doug Whaley get fired because he wasn't great with the cameras on? The exact same Doug Whaley would still have his job if the Bills had gone 11-5 and he'd been horrible with the press. Hey, did you see the Pats fired Bill Belichick because he gives lousy press conferences? Might Beane declare internally that the Bills won't report that way again? Sure. But if he has trouble sleeping tonight, do you think it will be because (a) Jeremy Maclin didn't sign or (b) Chris Brown may have led some people to believe that Maclin WOULD sign?

sounds correct

Did Beane tweet?