Shaw66

First paragraph: Ther is not one example, including Derek Carr, who people can agree had his career ruined by starting early. Second paragraph: So Manning and Ryan and Wilson and Deshaun Watson all had success starting early,. So what's you're point? That Allen can't be like them? Third paragraph: When McD and Allen say Allen isn't ready, they mean they'd like for him to have learned more before he started. NO ONE is ready when they start in their first couple of years. Fourth paragraph: This stuff about him getting hurt is indeed nonsense. Allen didn't take any more hits or expose himself in ways that other quarterbacks don't. He's just playing football. His offensive line isn't great, but he isn't getting hit more than a lot of other QBs. So agasin I ask, what's your point. Are you saying that if you're the HC, you wouldn't play Allen?

That's for a different thread. This thread is about Allen.

First, Aikman played 11 games, attempted 293 passes and was sacked 19 times. And you're right, he sucked. So did their other quarterbacks. The team sucked, too. Offense was horrible, defense was horrible. Second, so now your point is what, that good rookies on bad teams shouldn't play until they get good coaches? Huh? So Allen should ask to sit until his contract runs out so he can pick a QB coach? It's very simple. The Bills don't have a great array of talent, and they have a very good prospect at QB. What you do with a very good prospect on a not so good team is you play him. There is nothing to be gained by sitting him.

That's well stated, but it's not on the point. No one is arguing that Allen is in the perfect position for him to start his career. It's obvious that if you could draw it up, you'd put Allen on a better team with a better line and better receivers. That's certainly true. The point is that some people seem to think that because Allen is on a bad team with a bad line and bad receivers, he should sit on the bench. I don't agree. It's just football. Go out and play, and as you play, you'll get better. And although it was nice for Mahomes to sit for a season, Allen will be a better QB at the beginning of his second season than Mahomes at the beginning of his. Allen will learn a LOT more this year than Mahomes did sitting last year. I don't agree about the "plateau." The team's performance may plateau if they don't get better talent, but Allen doesn't have to plateau. Michael Jordan played on a lot of bad teams, but HE kept getting better. Eventually, the Bulls put good players around him and gave him a Hall of Fame coach, and the team started winning. Allen will keep getting better for the next five years, whatever the Bills do.

This is more or less nonsense. First, you asked that someone name good QBs who started their careers on bad teams. I named three, and Bob Griese is another. There are 26 modern era QBs in the Hall of Fame, and FOUR of them started on bad teams. Statistically, that's about what you'd expect, about 15%. Then you try to twist the stats to prove that somehow those guys didn't play on bad teams. Aikman played on the worst offense in the league, and you say it was different because he played behind a good offensive line. How good could that line have been if they were the worst offense in the league? And, yes, he was sacked only 19 times. Why? Because he only attempted 293 passes. Prorate that to 500 passes, what a most QBs throw in a serious, and he has 30 sacks or more. There simply is no evidence that starting as a rookie on a bad team impairs the development of QBs. Is this situation perfect? No. Allen would be better off with a better line (so would Eli Manning), a better QB coach, a better receiving corps, better this, better that. None of it really matters. He's on the field and he's learning, and that's better for him than being on the bench. I think this is nonsense. It's harder to succeed if you start for a bad team? Yes, in that season, it's harder to succeed. But there's no evidence that it's harder to be good in your fifth season if your first season is with a bad team. I mentioned Steve Young, who's a good case in point. He didn't seem to have any trouble overcoming starting his career on a bad team. Who says Allen isn't ready? Does he look like he doesn't know what he's doing? No. Has he taken any serious hits? No. There are probably 10 teams in the league whose offensive line is as bad as Buffalo's. I don't see any teams benching their QBs because they're afraid they'll get injured. QB PTSD. Nonsense. Russell Wilson has been a league leader in sacks since starting as a rookie. He hasn't been beaten up, he doesn't have PTSD, he doesn't do anything expect play great. This is all just nonsense. Put the guy on the field and let him play. He held his own Sunday, and there is no reason to believe that he won't improve as the season progresses. He'll make mistakes like other rookies, he'll get hit like other quarterbacks, and he'll play football.

I think he's shown a lot. First, he isn't showing many rookie negatives. No sulking, no confusion calling plays, no intimidation from a game that's too big or too fast for him. We're not seeing any of the rookie ugliness we got from EJ or JP. Second, he's shown good command of the huddle and respect from his veteran teammates. Third, he's shown none of the wild inaccuracy people seemed to think he had, and none of the overambitious gunslinger mentality he was accused of. Fourth, he's shown great presence in the pocket. Fifth, he's shown an ability to look off defenders and to find and hit receivers downfield, something Taylor struggled with. He has plenty of positives and, to date, few negatives. Yes, the roster is what it is, but I don't think it's as bad as people think. For example, look at sacks through two games. Now, the Bills started two totally inexperienced QBs, and inexperienced QBs always take more sacks. So you'd expect the numbers to be bad because of that. The Bills have taken 11 sacks, one less than Seattle, one more than Cleveland (Wilson and Taylor are perennial sack leaders). There are plenty of teams with 6 sacks or more, and watching the games I'm amazed how MOST teams have trouble protecting the QB. The Bills aren't a terrible outlier, and as Allen learns more, he'll take fewer sacks. Plus, it's a new offense for everyone, and Allen didn't get a lot of first team reps all summer long. He and the receivers will develop some rapport that they don't have yet. For example, he and Benjamin miscommunicated on the back-shoulder incompletion early in the game Sunday. That rarely happens once two guys know each other. Once they know each other it's also easier for the QB to avoid sacks, because he knows where to find his outlet guys. So I fully expect that the offense will improve from week to week. I think Daboll was reluctant to throw the ball a lot on Sunday, and I think that will change, too. As Allen learns more and gets better with his receivers, they'll let him throw it. You can be sure the whole league already knows that you can't sit on the short routes against Allen. He keeps hitting guys over the middle 15-20 yards downfield, and that's going to continue. Once that happens, Daboll will start popping receivers open on shorter routes. Allen will move the sticks better then, his completion percentage will go up, and the running backs, whoever they are, won't have to worry so much about the safeties in the box. I really expect that by midseason the media will be singing a different tune about Allen.

Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning and Steve Young had okay careers starting with bad teams. Allen's getting a great education playing now. He's already showing he can handle the mental and physical pressure. I'm confident his sacks per game will go down as the season progresses. He'll read the defenses better, and he'll know his receivers better.

I don't think it was balanced at all. I think the story was written based on stats and conventional wisdom. That is, it started for the assumption the Bills are train wreck and went on from there. It recites all the things the Bills have done wrong in handling their QB situation, things that weren't even wrong. Getting rid of Taylor wasn't surprising - getting a decent pick for him was surprising. What it ignores, completely, is how Allen is playing. Who cares if they unloaded McCarron? Who cares if there's a vet in the QB room to mentor him? Who cares if coming out of college the "experts" said he was raw and needed work? How about just watching what he does on the field and making a judgment about whether the guy looks like an NFL QB? The fact is he DOES look like an NFL QB. When the Bills start winning, the writers are going to say that Allen took his lumps and grew up and blah, blah, blah. In fact, he's playing as better than Taylor and Trubisky. He looks as good as Darnold but doesn't have his stats. The press just doesn't want to tell that story.

Well, because Allen can throw the medium deep ball so well, even with mediocre receivers, they should be able to force the defender to back pedal for a step or two. That should give them the opportunity to break off the down field route and get some separation. If the defender continue to play the receivers tight off the line, then the 15 yard in or out routes should create separation. There are very few receivers who get open with one on one moves. Most do it with scheme and sharp cuts, Chris Hogan being a good example. There is no reason Jones can't get open if the Bills have a good scheme and he runs his routes as he should.

That's why I've complained about the pass patterns. Pretty much every team gets guys open on slants and drags, but I didn't see much of that Sunday. Frankly, without McCoy, let Allen throw it 40 times. I think we will like the results.

One of the throws I liked best was deep in the end zone to Holmes. He was in trouble and had to throw it away but was able to make a thrown that gave Holmes a shot at a TD. That was beautiful.

I think your overall assessment is correct ut your bullet points are too tough on him. No qb throws it exactly where it needs to be every time. He was well within adequate on his throws. I think he needed some loft on the deep ball to Clay. I thinks DiMarco fell down because he stopped running and hadn't recover to catch the ball. This was a good outing for Allen. He is going to make m8stakea, but I also think he will be better every week.

You may be right about understanding presnap. That's one of the things rookies don't get. That's why I said last week the Bills would go no hiddle, so Daboll could talk to him presnap and tell him what he is looking at. But he can throw, he can run, he has guts and seems to be learning.

I agree with this. Just about the entire team is a mess, but I think Allen will just keep getting better. I'm watching Trubisky. He has a full season on Allen, and he doesn't have Allen's poise. I don't know if McBeane are the guys to build a winner, but the Bills have their qb.

I all good points, stu. I got no answers.

I'm excited too. And I agree about Daboll. The play calling WAS conservative. And I think the pass patterns are unimaginative. No one seems to get open quickly, and it's those quick passes that makes life easier for the qb.

“Limited Excitement” The Bills stumbled to another loss in the first home game of their 2018 campaign. It wasn’t as ugly as the loss to the Ravens a week ago, but it wasn’t a lot better, either. The game wasn’t as close as the 31-20 score might suggest. It was an odd day at New Era Field, not the usual home opener. The excitement of the draft had ebbed by the start of training camp, and preseason games had left the fans scratching their heads. The blow out loss at Baltimore crushed their spirit. Sunday at New Era, there was very little of the typical opening day excitement. There was hope – there’s always hope – but no excitement. And it was hot, so the fans had wilted before the game began. Still, the fans made noise, in the beginning. The defense responded with a three and out on the Chargers’ opening drive, but after the Bills’ offense went three and out themselves, it began to look like Baltimore all over again. Rivers was All-World, and it looked like the Bills defense was an open book to him. He had no pressure, no trouble finding open receivers, and no trouble hitting them. It wasn’t long before the fans got quiet. It was somber where I sit. For the past six years, I’ve sat behind a family with four tickets. Opening day always was the father and his three fifty-something sons. Dad went to his first Bills game in 1960 and bought these season tickets in 1985. Families like those can be found all over the stadium. Sunday, only one of the sons and his son were there; Dad had died in June, 82 years old and 58 years a Bills fan. It was a sad day in our section, and the Bills did little to change the mood. The Bills woke up a bit in the second quarter, but their general futility and the heat drove many fans out of the stadium at half-time. The Bills actually looked competitive in the third quarter. They had some success on offense and, mercifully, on defense. The score, if not the game, approached respectability, but fans continued to leave. A skeleton crew was left to make noise in the fourth quarter as the Bills mustered a last-ditch effort to get back into the game. The fans wore the usual collection of vintage jerseys – Kelly, Smith, Reed, Fitzpatrick – with several 13s on display to honor Stevie’s return to New Era to wave the flag as the Bills took the field. A few Edmunds 49 jerseys, and more than a few Josh Allen 17s. The rookies didn’t disappoint – they looked like rookies. Allen is, without question, the best QB the Bills have. He showed that. His throws are things of beauty – powerful sometimes, nice touch on swing passes, accurate throws off balance or on the run. The guy is a great, great thrower. Turns out he’s also an excellent runner, and the Bills decided to put the League on notice. The Bills ran the read option several times, and Allen wasn’t afraid to keep it. He’s not going to earn a living toting the pigskin, but he’s going to keep defenses honest. And he can scramble. He can break tackles in the backfield, he can move around. He can stay upright with a tackler on him. And still, Allen plays like a rookie. He holds the ball too long. He seems to lose concentration on some of his passes. He throws an occasional fast ball when a little more air would help. Oddly, I think his two interceptions were positive plays. The first was a remarkable effort on Allen’s part to stay upright, looking downfield with a tackler hanging on him. He waited, waited and finally saw the window he thought he could hit. Turns out he couldn’t, but he’ll learn. Great play. The comparisons to Roethlisberger are easy to see. The second INT happened in that part of the game where the QB needs to take chances to get his team back in it. Allen saw the opportunity and took the chance. He will learn from that throw, too. He needs to take those chances to learn how to execute under game pressure. 18 for 33 and 245 yards with a TD and two okay INTs was a good outing for a rookie’s first start in the NFL. Five sacks is not good. A few sacks weren’t on him, but a couple should have been avoided. One was the corner blitz that he should have seen and didn’t. The offensive line, of course, did Allen few favors. And Daboll’s passing schemes are creating few open targets for Allen. Edmunds continued to mix solid plays with late reads and misreads, getting caught in the wash on some running plays, being left flat-footed on many passing plays. He’s on the field for virtually every play, and he should be learning, play after play. In the meantime, QBs like Rivers will pick on him regularly. Most troubling about the Bills is their general disarray. Marcus Murphy made key mistakes in the punting game, refusing to fair catch one ball, and lining up what looked like 60 yards from the line of scrimmage on another. He ran up 15 yards and still only could short-hop the catch. Critical penalties, again. McDermott taking over defensive play calling. That shouldn’t be necessary; he and Frazier should be on the same page by now. Vontae Davis? His disappearing act begs the question: Do Beane and McDermott actually know what they’re doing? They preach character and they couldn’t figure out Davis had nothing left in the tank? Most courageous play of the game? Taiwan Jones, hands down. His recovery of Murphy’s fumble or muff or whatever that was, and his absolute refusal to go down as he tried to get the ball out of the end zone was awesome. However, maybe I don’t know the rules, and maybe Jones didn’t either, because apparently there was no need to run the ball out, as the officials ruled that the play was a touchback. Runner up? McCoy getting back on the field to see if he could go. Bills desperately need McCoy on the field. The guy is special, and a gamer, and Allen needs the help. If McDermott’s the coach his clippings say he is, this team will continue to improve and begin winning some games. He has the quarterback to do it, but a lot of questions remain. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

I don't remember the game. Bills were on the opponent's 15 or 20, going to the left on TV. Kelly got sacked and didn't get up. I think he might have unconscious for a few seconds. TIimme out and a commercial. Next play Kelly threw a TD pass. Just a ridiculously tough man.

I used to drive College Park to Amherst, and it was more like 6 hours. But that was 40 years ago. I drive 6.5 one way to games. Drive there on Saturday, back after the game. I think i will try Bar Bill tomorrow.

You're driving round trip in one day?

I don't agree but you may be right.

Wheels, this makes no sense. Just because guy cant block doesn't mean he can't line up and learn the play call.

They've practiced doung it all summer. It isn't a big deal.

It's no huddle, not hurry up. You just call the plays at the line I stead of the huddle. The only rushing is that people have to get to the line promptly. They've practiced doung it all summer. It isn't a big deal.

Right. No huddle, not hurry up.