Rochesterfan

Is that where Whaley is hiding - the Troll under the bridge?

The initial report is not at all what I remember. Whaley was talking credit for EJ all over the place. Exactly what YOLO posted in the 2nd part. I also remember arguments on the practice field where Marrone did not want EJ and Whaley seemed to make it clear that was where the Bills were going. I think Whaley (which he has done before) is trying to throw everyone but himself under the bus in the hopes he can find work again. Dude is sleaze at this point.

Exactly - people think he would have developed exactly the same way in Buffalo, but even after the trade - it took and entire shift from a passing offense to a running offense for him to emerge. I struggle to think what would have happened if they kept him - I really see no way he makes the Bills 2019 - let alone 2020 roster with his limitations in pass blocking. That is ok and part of the game - some guys need the right fit - Hughes needed the defense we played when he arrived and couldn’t do a thing in Indy. Poyer struggled in Cleveland, but matched with Hyde in a zone based defense - he has grown and become an excellent player. It happens across the leagues - guys are drafted and the scheme changes and they are no longer fits and they blossom when getting into a better fit.

I agree - I think Hollister was brought in for 3 reasons: 1 - he has spent time blocking out of the H-back role - so he can help Knox, Gilliam, and Sweeney get better at it. 2 - he already has a connection to Josh and seems very smooth in the passing game - another teachable point 3 - He is a veteran presence and the coaching staff and FO want that veteran voice in each room I don’t think they are handing anything to Knox and Singletary, but I also don’t think they are actively and generally working hard to replace them either. Much like they are allowing Josh, Tremaine, Ed Oliver, Dane Jackson, Cody Ford, Phillips, etc to all continue to grow and earn playing time - they are doing the same thing with Knox and Singletary - continue to improve and earn the time or like everything else - we have guys coming up that will replace you.

I totally agree with Ross Tuckers take here - interesting after 20+ years of use - you come out with this now with no new major information. Why? It seems much like the “skipping” of OTAs the NFLPA is giving recommendations about things without merit just to pull players away from teams. It will be fun when the GMs suddenly use more games and game time missed for players against them as they negotiate contracts. I don’t disagree with the recommendation, but I question the timing and the data behind it. Without a replacement recommendation that we have not seen - it seems like a big ask of the players by the NFLPA - stop what has been working for you and what has been used by the general public and see what happens. To me it reads like a typical NFLPA response to something they lost and are now trying to gain leverage on. Moving to 17 games - we are going to try to ban a pain killer and make it look like the number of games missed shot way up and then we will blame the added game.

I have not heard if they reached out or not - it sounded like he had offers to compete for starting jobs and chose to come here to learn and develop.

Maybe, but there have been rumors of an Ertz trade since well before the draft and they have not made the move. Maybe Ertz finally agrees to a significantly reduced deal and maybe the teams can come to an agreement, but until they do - even with a ton of very good, talented TEs available in FA and guys that have produced better than Ertz over the last couple of years - the Bills chose to sign Hollister as their FA TE and stick with Knox. They do not seem to be dying to get Ertz in here or the deal would be done - so to me it seems they are still waiting with Knox on development. Even if they bring Ertz in - there is a good chance that Knox sticks and they still wait on development and give him plenty of playing time. If they thought Ertz was the piece to push them over the edge the deal would be done - they are trying to get him at their cost and their deal and therefore that tells me that they see him as potentially a fit, but not something to waste big resources on (and that does not strike me as them admitting they can’t wait on Knox). Maybe as you said - Ertz is their guy and they don’t feel they can stick with Knox, but everything they have done this offseason points to them being comfortable enough with Knox that if needed he will be their starter again.

I disagree - many 3rd round picks get into year 3 to develop as long as they are showing progress and are doing what the staff want. It is this year that will determine if next year comes or not. For the Bills - both Singletary and Knox are 3rd year guys that will most likely get year 3 to show what they have learned. Neither had real serious competition brought in and both are being given the opportunity to be starters/role players on this team.

Right now he is still all untapped potential. He improved in catching from year 1 to year 2. They totally changed his blocking as they went more to motion and h-back role to help with pass blocking. Lets hope that improves along with his catching and then you may have something - right now he is just untapped potential.

It also depends upon the player - watching the highlights - several times Diggs makes a catch and then continues to accelerate and run to the end zone. Watching Sanders - he makes a move and catches the ball and then almost immediately was slowing down - almost like I am saving myself. You also really saw the speed on the deep throws where Josh led Diggs into the end zone. You don’t see the same type of action from the DBs. I love that the Bills collect and use this data. Wish more was shared, but I can only imagine how tight they want to control everything.

Just remember Knox never got a ton of chances in college - almost all of the throws in college went to WRs (they had some good ones). so I am not sure he knows what to make of himself at all. He is not a natural blocker, but got almost no practice at that in college- so he has to learn. He is not a natural route runner and catcher of the ball as he did not really do that in college with the WRs on the team. He got specific plays called that they knew would free him up - very limited block and then flare out type routes. TE is one of the hardest transitions from college because there is so much more expected of them on every play and they suddenly go from guys that are bigger than most LBs and as fast as most DBs to guys that are not elite with size or speed and need to find new ways to adapt. They are suddenly asked to block blitzing LBs and DEs that are strong and have actual pass rush moves and in college it is more of a chip than full on blocking. I think you really saw him in the second half of last year try to focus so much on the catches and not focus on the runs, but he still was not fluid in any of it. The good news is he is working on it - the bad news for him is that they brought in a guy that I believe is a better blocker and is already more fluid in his routes and also knows Josh from college. I really like what Hollister can bring especially out of the H-Back roll and I think he will be getting a lot of playing time if he stays healthy. I agree and you still saw Josh do that several times and it led to some fumbles and I think he finally cleared his head and realized how much better it was to beat them with his arm - now that he has answers.

It was - he talked about that last off season, but he as doing a lot of it on his own with just catching passes from a Juggs machine. It is why his catch percentage increased, but you still see lapses where he takes his eye off the ball and was turning upfield before securing the catch. I believe that was part of what they talked about getting someone external to connect the eyes and the hands so he is focused on the catch. Once he gets that - then the runs come. I said I believe the worst thing that happened to him was the notoriety that came with his angry run - he was always looking for that rather than the catch.

Why would anyone double team him on passing plays? He is not and has never been a skilled pass rusher. The Bills (Carolina before them) have not seemed to expect him to be effective rushing the passer - that is why he is rotational and taken out on passing downs. The expectation is that he will help occupy blockers on running downs and try to gum up the middle and keep blockers off from Edmunds (or other LBs/safeties filling the gap). On passing downs they would put Jordan Phillips or Alexander inside to rush and take Star out. He is only mildly effective as a 1T, but the difference in YPC is somewhat significant with and without him - so he must do something well.

The “salary Cap” is a major reason they folded since teams did not abide by the cap in an effort to sign players like Herschel Walker - who was paid 3x more than the Cap. The 2 point conversion was already part of college football - well before the USFL and was one of several college rules that the USFL adopted - similar to stopping the clock after the 2 minute warning with a first down. Not a USFL innovation. They did allow coaches to challenge calls - so yes - highly innovative. They did allow the run and shoot to start, but again that was due to coaching - not really anything the league did. It is not like the old AFL that changed the football size and texture to allow better passing or something. The USFL did not put any emphasis on passing and really tried to highlight the RBs because they were so limited in talented QB play. I would not call really any rules put in place as innovative. Their goal was to as closely as possible merge NFL and college rules. I stand by my statement - it really was not very innovative as a league, but it did allow some coaches from college, NFL, and Canada to get a head coaching job and try some things they were running other places.

Just another waste of time league that will fold in short order. USFL was never innovative- it was previously well funded to get stars. This will be another league of alsorans. Basically Fox needs something to cover in the spring without Baseball.

Why don’t we wait until at least training camp ..... two seasons from now. Edmunds is under contract this year and next (at minimum) and you are marking a low end FA to replace him 2 years from now.

Not my style either, but I can imagine for veteran OL and DL - these OTAs can’t do a whole lot. Non-contact drills - no blocking or pads - in a system they have been in. Limited meeting time and lots of teaching of young guys - I think OTAs are really a waste for the 2 lines. I get WRs and DBs as they can run and tangle, but the guys on the line are not getting anything and can actually get more accomplished away from OTAs. Not an excuse as I would prefer 100% participation, but I get the group missing.

I totally agree with this. The caveats are that the Mahomes deal is set up such that each year KC has the ability to convert salary to signing bonus on it - so they have the ability to create huge amounts of cap space as needed at the expense of adding to his future CAP hits. It is brilliant in how they can adjust it year after year to free space - especially as we approach the new TV deals in 2023. The other piece is a great team finds it easier to get cheap veterans to sign or agree to great deals after trades. Therefore the emphasis on drafting is lessened as we saw with NE that became a very mediocre drafting team later in Belichek’s career. A great QB and a team willing to trade and sign lots of FAs on the cheap means they will have lots of turnover, but lots of opportunity to remain very good.

I am not sure and maybe I missed it, but I thought that they asked about Diggs missing OTAs and McD came across as fine and understanding - like they talked before hand and he knew Diggs was doing his thing. Then he was asked about Star missing OTAs and it was a totally different response the second time. He sounded more upset/disappointed in his lack of attendance. I did not get the sense he was equally upset at Diggs and Star for missing OTAs. I also am not sure if the frustration centered around him getting multiple questions about guys that were not there or if it was more Star specific frustration. I also don’t know about how he would of responded to others like Hughes or Addision missing the OTAs because that was not asked, but those guys were all in last year and he maybe talked with them. I think @GunnerBill may be reading a bit much, but I also think he is correct in the response between Diggs missing OTAs and Star missing OTAs was definitely different.

It is difficult to say exactly - I was so anti-Rex from before he was even hired and then when I heard about McDermotts interview in Cleveland - he was someone I wanted going forward. I pretty much bought in from day 1, but the Atlanta game in his first year told me what they could do. How open he was with the team after the Peterman debacle in SD and getting that team to buy back in for a playoff run - stellar. Getting the team the next year to 6 wins - should be Wall of Fame worthy right there - that was a bad team and they knew they were bad, but he kept them together and rowing forward. But the truth is - the fact that he is willing to work, adjust, admit mistakes, and keep striving for better has all proven his process to me.

I guess I do not see what Locked on sees as I look at the KC drafts since Mahomes and they are basically failures and the real reason they are good is that they (like NE before them) got great players to sign for less. For example in the draft debate: 2017: 1st rd - Mahomes - Star 2nd rd - Kpassagnon - out of the league 3rd rd - Hunt - released and in Cleveland 2018: 2nd rd - Speaks - out of league 3rd rd - Nnadi - nice pick split time at DT 3rd rd - O’Daniel - 3rd string 2019: 2nd rd - Hardman - Special teamed and back-up WR never broke 600 yards receiving. 2nd rd - Thornhill - Back-up safety 3rd rd - Saunders - 3 string DL 2020: 1st rd - CEH - starting RB - average 2nd rd - Gay - back-up LB 3rd rd - Niang - opted out Basically since drafting Mahomes in 2017 - the Chiefs 1st 3 rounds have netted them 2 starters (neither one a star), a special teams ace, 4 back-up players, and 4 guys that are out of the league or never played. That is out of 11 picks - they have 2 starters. In contrast during that same time the Bills have drafted 7 starters in White, Dawkins, Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Ford, and Singletary/Moss. They have also drafted rotational back-up in Moss/Singletary, Phillips, Knox, Epenesa. The Bills have had 1 player in the 1st 3 rounds no longer on the team in Zay Jones versus 4 for the Chiefs. It is not even close in drafting since 2017 - the Bills blow the Chiefs out of the water. The difference is the Chiefs were a playoff/championship team when they drafted Mahomes and did not need to rebuild the entire roster. They already had a significant number of starters and they were able to get several new additions on team friendly contracts. The Bills started from further back and had to overpay for several players early on - now that they are good and have a QB - they are starting to get signings on more team friendly deals - like multiple starters this off season. Basically Locked on is totally wrong with the draft point for recent years - unless they want to look at 2012-2017 - in which case the Bills blew and the Chiefs put much of their offensive team together.

Although I agree - I don’t think it has anything to do with an Allen extension - freeing up Cap space in 2021 can roll into 2022 - giving additional space next year as part of the extension. It also frees up space that can roll into next year and then additional restructuring can get even more next year and this might just be part 1.

Just one more sign the original premise was clickbait. Don’t give in to the PFF bull - force them to get better.

How should we take a post where a person makes something about about a coach that was not even on the team making a trade for a guy. It was flat out wrong there is no two ways about it. He clearly stated that Bill Callahan the Browns OL coach was the main reason the Browns traded for Teller and Callahan and the Browns pursued Teller because he was considered an exceptional OG candidate. Now let’s talk facts - Teller was a fifth round pick for the Bills - he was not thought of by any team as an exceptional OG candidate. The Bills liked him enough to start him some year one on a terrible OL, but realized he was limited to OG play and was the 4th best OG on the team. Fact 2: the entire FO and coaching staff that made the trade was under the Kitchens regime - everyone was phased out - so the entire thing about Callahan was completely made up. Fact 3: Teller went to Cleveland and was on their disappointing 2019 team and he couldn’t even crack the starting lineup until the second half of the season as their #4 guard with a ton of injuries before he saw the field and he was looked at as a potential cut candidate because of his struggles. They were a much more pass forward team and he struggled badly in pass protection - just as we saw in Buffalo. The difference was in 2020 - the Stefanski regime took over with a heavy dose of run game and the scheme change fit his exact strengths. I highly doubt that we see the same success for Teller if he stayed in Buffalo because the scheme fit is not there. So I will ask you - How should we respond to someone on the message board that states not an opinion, but flat out makes things up to fit a made up scenario? Please tell me @ChronicAndKnuckles the message board etiquette for a deceitful post that has been proven to be completely false. If you can go through the post I called out and find truths - great, but when someone on a message board (or anyplace at all) just flat out makes things up - they should get called out and others should know the post is absolutely garbage. I have no issue with people presenting a truthful take on Teller and yes as it works out the Bills missed out on what he is currently, but to even suggest the Browns knew what they were getting and even worse that the OL and interim HC of Washington Football Team had anything to do with the trade is stupid.

Ok - this is so wrong - I am not sure what exactly you are trying to prove - is this garbage a troll attempt or are you just bad. First - if Teller was considered an exceptional guard talent - he would not have been drafted in the 5th round. The Bills traded him in Aug of 2019 to the Browns - Bill Calahan was in Washington not Cleveland and had absolutely nothing to do with the trade. So your entire first paragraph is just garbage. The Bills thought Teller had talent, but it was singular talent at guard and he was not going to make the squad. Cleveland needed a ton of help on OL and the Bills had a surplus - so the Bills got fair market value for him and they maintained young depth for the PS and veterans. The Browns got Teller in 2019 with Freddie Kitchens run offense and Teller was one of the worst guards in the NFL for Cleveland in 2019. He was so bad there was talk of cutting him going into 2020. What changed in 2020 was the addition of Callahan and the change in offense scheme with Stefanski. Teller was always strong in the running game, but his pass protection was below average. In 2020 with the run first offense Cleveland runs he excelled, but put him in the pass first Buffalo offense - I very much doubt he is the same player. He still struggles in pass protection as a guard. There is no reason to spin it either way - they traded a guard that was not going to make their team and doesn’t fit their style. He struggled in Cleveland until the perfect complement system was installed in 2020. Give Cleveland credit, but to act like anyone in Cleveland knew what they were getting is stupid. The people in Cleveland that made the change were replaced in 2020 when he finally grew into a player - they brought in a new GM and entire coaching staff well after the trade. Therefore your entire premise is wrong and misguided. Wrong - one of the guys with a high opinion may have been hired a full year after the trade, but he was still in discussion to be cut going into 2020 - not an All Pro candidate. He also has elite potential in a run heavy scheme, but still struggled more in pass blocking - so he would have been worse again in our scheme than Cleveland’s - it is all about fit.