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transplantbillsfan

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    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted · Edited by transplantbillsfan

    First, the caveat : I'm sure the majority of people skeptical about Mr. Taylor aren't bizarrely weird, just the most vocal ones here.

     

    That out the way, what a spectacle! Transplant says TT would be a fine QB if he could play consistently at the level of the Seattle and (2nd) Miami game. Now, the obviousness of this is so obvious it's obvious, but any formulation finding Taylor the slightest bit above a "running back who can throw" is a red flag to very bull-head people. So they respond with posts saying it's not enuff for Taylor to play with consistency, he has to play with consistency. Transplant is horribly wrong to bring up the issue of consistency, because the real problem is consistency. The thing that would make Taylor a real QB isn't consistency (that fool Transplant !!!), but consistency.....

     

    Me? I think the problem is consistency, so clearly I disagree with everyone - right?

     

    Of course that is the issue. There have been zillions of posts from people trying to define some a priori element of Taylor cooked into his genetics which disqualify him as a quarterback. He can't throw over the middle. He can't see the field. He can't process decisions. My favorite is the "throw with anticipation" bromide, which is a testament to the mass hypnotic effect of sports clichés. It would be a wonderful thing to chart the frequency of usage of this trait as defining QB skill, both before & after it became the go-to Tyrod insult. A thousand-fold increase maybe?

     

    But whatever weaknesses there are in Taylor's game, he has very frequently played at a high level. In fact, if you look at his Bill's career exclusively when he plays with a legitimate Number One & Two receiver, he's looked pretty solid. He can make the throws. He can be a playmaker. He can even improve. Even minus those final Ws, I thought he looked much more clutch the second half of last year. Red zone offense got significantly better. Third down conversions improved. It's all down to consistency. That will define his ceiling and we should see in '17.

     

    Now : Carry on with your argument whether it's consistency or consistency. Enquiring minds want to know!

    Good stuff...

     

    Like I said... consistency :flirt:

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    We see many mediocre and bad QBs have big games every now and again - TT

    We see so many great and or Franchise QBs have crappy games every now and again - not TT.

     

    I'd rather option 2 over option 1.

     

    No transplantbillsfan, its not fine. we need better week in and week out.

     

    1 bad game out of 4 opposed to 1 very game out of 4

    What in the world...?

     

    Am I speaking Swahili or something? Both you and Bang summarized pretty much what I'm saying, though you're putting a negative tone on it while I guess I have a more optimistic outlook.

     

    Interesting...

    I'm not a fan of playing the what if game.

    Ummm... then what are you even doing here?

     

    That's all we got at this point :flirt:

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    Not a fan of this logic really. We see so many mediocre and bad QBs have big games every now and again. The difference between the great QBs and the decent to good to bad ones are the consistency they play with.

     

    We watched Fitz tear us up and have a monster game last year. If he consistently played games like that then he wouldn't be such a journeyman. If guys like Kaepernick and Keenum were more consistent they would still be starters.

     

    Tyrod has just as many stickers as he does great games. It's what middle of the pack QBs do.

    ... ?

     

    You're not a fan of the logic you pretty much entirely agree with...?

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    IF

     

    That is a big if.

     

    The Bills need more production from their starting QB on a weekly basis - period. Spout stats or wins and losses, hard counts whatever. The song remains the same. The Bills lack that guy and have so for a while.

     

    BTW didn't they win the Cincy game in 2016? I thought they did.

     

    That Miami game was just a perfect storm of crap going into OT and a load of crap from the start of OT until the end of the "period" when Miami finally scored.

    Of course if is an if is an if.

     

    Maybe it's big.

     

    Maybe it's doable.

     

    All I said was that if Taylor can more consistently be the QB he's shown he can be, he's going to be just fine.

     

     

    Uh... yeah... we won the Cincy game... your point...?

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    Didn't you post "Bills go 8-8 if they sign Maclin" 2009?

     

    8 wins or less? Not a big endorsement of your guy Taylor.

     

    An improvement on the D is all we need (right?)

    Tyrod Taylor is good enough to be our starter (right?)

     

    Is that what you meant to say? He had a "great game" that day? He also had a "great game" against Seattle too. Truth - we all know that those "great games" are few and far between.

     

    Or was it an involuntary deflect dodge reply?

    Even if the Miami game and Seattle game are Taylor's ceiling, if he can more consistently play to that level and have fewer games like Cincinnati and Baltimore, he'd be just fine.

     

    That Miami game was just a perfect storm of crap going against him after bringing the team down for the late go ahead TD.

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    What people dont talk about in the baltimore game is just how unprepared the offense looked as a whole in game 1

     

    TT barely played in pre season.....RR was really holding players out trying to keep players healthy. I really dont want to make excuses though.....the offense did not play well....it was one of the few games where the defense actually played better then the offense.

    Might've been a factor... sure was a piss poor performance nonetheless

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    Insults and belittling of those who don't agree with you're high praise of Taylor.

     

    You can never keep it to strictly discussion...there's always a little dig thrown into it...as if any other opinion on Taylor isn't worth acknowledgement.

     

    It's fine with me as I can take it and don't mind giving it back, but it still speaks to what type of poster you have become...at least when Tyrod is the subject of the discussion.

    All this time and I figured you would've finally been able to describe me, instead you describe yourself...

     

    A note: the word "delusional" on an internet discussion board is about as big an insult there is that's still generally acceptable in that you won't get an infraction for it. When you enter conversations calling people that immediately, you're picking a fight.

     

    That's you.

     

    I'm just the guy you picked a fight with who's not simply going to turn the other cheek. Maybe I should, but I'm human.

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    This perfect system you are speaking of would have to hide Taylor's major flaws as a passer...we already did that by protecting him with a dominant ground game mixed in with simple plays and easy, low risk throws.

     

    The QB's that have the perfect system in place have the freedom to read the defense and operate in real time while the play is developing...before the snap as well.

     

    Dennison may help him a bit more by rolling out of the pocket and such, but I don't view that as sustainable, and I can envision Taylor taking more of a beating that way, too.

     

    I think we've given Tyrod about as much help as he can expect, and he's been given a system that helps him maximize his abilities already.

     

    Bottom line is I just don't see alot more that can be done to get him playing at a higher level.

     

    ]And Taylor had a chance to put it away, but didn't.

    I'm sorry but this is super lame.

     

    It really is.

     

    You need to consider circumstances and context in a game that has so many other things influencing it than just the QB. Taylor passed what should have been the go ahead TD to Clay with less than 90 seconds in the game, then the return team allowed a 39 yard return, the defense promptly allows Matt Moore to get 25 more yards, then our dumbass HC can't call a TO to potentially ice the kicker. Then on the first OT drive Taylor helps the Bills get into the Red Zone with a chance to put the game away and you get -2 yards from McCoy on 1st down and one of the worst play calls ever by running a gimmick play to a guy who hardly saw the field all year because he's at the end of his career and he gets-8 yards. Oh yeah, and then our kicker missed a pretty easy FG by NFL standards giving the opposition good field position.

     

    Loss.

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    So coaches don't see great physical ability and believe that they can turn it into more? Do you really think this doesn't happen alot with coaches and players?

     

    The fact is that Dennison has already worked with him and he still has major flaws and weaknesses in his game. It seems very unlikely to me that the new OC will transform this guy into something that we haven't already seen. I think people are hoping on hope that someone will get Taylor to take that next step, and Dennison made the best pitch that he was the guy to do it. It's fair to wonder just what he can do with the guy because he sure didn't get his previous team to see it...they just let this guy walk out the door, so apparently whatever he did with Tyrod in the past wasn't anything that caught anyone's attention.

     

    Dennison is going to install a system that he thinks will play better to Taylor's strengths. He's not going to correct his fundamental flaws and his struggles reading the field and anticipating receivers. He's going to run more gimmicky stuff and get Taylor out of the pocket more. This doesn't sound like an offense that will be sustainable...it is likely to catch some team's off guard at first until they get a handle on it, and then they will adjust...force TT to stay in the pocket, and make throws he's not shown to be able to make. At least this is how I envision it.

    What?

     

    Dude... Dennison's most recent statements on the offense sounds like he wants Taylor in the pocket passing the ball making quick decisions...

     

     

    You're never going to like Taylor mainly because you don't like the type of QB he is. When you talk about "next step" it sure seems like you're talking about Taylor becoming a completely different QB rather than just a more consistent version of the very good QB he's flashed as at times.

     

    By all means correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're alone in that sentiment, either.

     

    Taylor is what he is in most ways, and that honestly might be a ceiling of the Seattle and 2nd Miami games this year. He just needs to be that version of himself more than twice a year and we need less (ideally none) of the Ravens or Bengals performances from this year.

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted · Edited by transplantbillsfan

    I can understand how some can get caught up in the exciting plays and physical tools...Dennison seems to be one of those guys. It's easy to just believe blindly and tell yourself he will figure it out, the new system will make him better...whatever makes you feel better about him, I do get it. I just have a more realistic view based on how long he's been in the league and what I've seen in terms of actual passing ability..

    All right everyone... hold the phone... can we hire Crusher as our OC instead of this bum Dennison who apparently "believes blindly" in the "exciting plays and physical tools" Taylor brings to the offense?!

     

    I mean c'mon man... let's get a real OC like Crusher, who has a more realistic view on Taylor rather than someone who's worked up close and personal with in the past... :flirt:

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    You guys......group hug.....group hug

    Nothin but love here from me... Bang and I are old friends :thumbsup:

    That's fine. I don't think it's close at all and both Mariota and Winston are not only better but will be significantly better years down the road. Tyrod is not some 2nd year player. He's entering his 7th season in the NFL and as much as you and others would like to believe he has all of his untapped potential since he's only started for 2 years, I don't agree at all. I think this is exactly who he is and 2, 3 and 5 years from now this is still who he'll be.

    Fair enough. I've explained plenty of times why I disagree so I won't beat that horse again today :flirt:

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    lol, seriously?

     

    tell ya what, click on "Pass" and see where he ranks.

    good grief...

    At 22, which is essentially in line with his Passer Rating.

     

    Total Qbr tries to measure more than just completion %, YPA and TD/INT ratio though.

    Do you believe Tyrod is better than Big Ben, Wilson, Rivers, Mariota, Carr and Winston?

     

    Just asking for a friend.

    I think it's too early to say for Mariota and Winston. They're about the same length into their careers as NFL starters as Taylor and we just need more time to determine what they really are, similar to Taylor.

     

    Though I'll say that I really like Mariota a LOT and strongly advocated trading up to get him in the draft.

     

    Those other, more established guys, no, Taylor's not better, but that doesn't mean he won't be.

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

    By posting their production? I agree with the rest of your post.

     

    It seems relevant to the discussion in my humble opinion.

     

    (with all due respect)

    Old School is a pretty obvious and clear anTy guy. Based on the poster, sure seems like he thinks those numbers reflect negatively on Taylor. I'll gladly apologize about what I said if Old School comes to explain what he believes he's enlightening us with by revealing those numbers and it's something not negative, though :flirt:

    If you believe that Taylor is a true QB, then I have to wonder why you would ever attempt to insult anyone else's intelligence.

    Now you're being a douche...

     

    Boo!

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted · Edited by transplantbillsfan

    So you just pick and choose which rumors you find credible based on the point you're making? Okay I guess. Sounds hypocritical but I suppose you can do that.

    Pretty easy to figure out how true rumors are based on what unfolds. I never absolutely dismiss what the media says. I just always take it with a grain of salt, varying in size. It's especially easy to be skeptical when you get wildly varying reports.

     

    But after the fact it's not so difficult to figure out the accuracy of the reports.

     

    Creepy stalking based on a handful of times I've replied to you? Don't flatter yourself. If anything you should be thankful I find my way into your threads.

    Remember this? :flirt:

    Ding ding ding

    Look, another fan!

     

    Insightful post, as usual :thumbsup:

    QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss

    in The Stadium Wall Archives

    Posted

     

     

    I have no dog in this fight. But if you are going to exclude some games from Tyrod's stats, for comparison sake you need to also exclude those from all the other QB's stats. I hope you have the time to go through every QB's games and decide which games to include, and which to discount. Good luck on getting a consensus!

    Nah. Not something I'll do right now. Completely understand the methodology, the point largely was the impact of the game on the team's average and how it was out of the general norm.

     

    But 15 other teams had starters miss games (or be benched) in 2016, so if you look up NE, IND, ARI, PIT, OAK, MIN, DEN, Chicago, CAR, MIA, TEN, CLEV, LA, NYJ, and SF, you'll have your answer quickly :thumbsup:

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