transplantbillsfan
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Posts posted by transplantbillsfan
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Yes, all of us who know you understand that all of your threads are as comprehensive as possible. Ergo it's been discussed.
If I sensed a bit of snarkyness ... If the name Tyrod Taylor is in it, then yes, there is. Again, this is not the BBMB.
seen a ton of Taylor threads, so we have to act like lemmings?
One of the things they didn't do there is stress duplicate threads, yet the would merge them. Use the search function and keep the number of repetitive threads to a minimum. Its a simple request.
Why must we have dozens of TT threads? To argue the same points over and over and over?
Oh...forgot to look at your profile.
You're just another BBMB refugee. I don't feel so bad anymore. I thought you were a TWD vet and I stepped on your toes.
Carry on...
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BBMBers need to understand that multiple threads on one topic is taboo here
Yes it is more liberal here but there are still rules to abide by
Do this and some of the bickering will stop
Sorry. I truly am...
Is there another thread here like this one?
I've seen a ton of Taylor threads just scrolling through pages... so the multiple threads on one topic being frowned upon is either crap or a scare tactic for newbies.
I was hesitant to actually create this thread... that's why I took my time to make it as comprehensive as possible...
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So in your world one good game outweighs 4 or more bad ones. Whatever!
What are you even talking about?
No, one game doesn't outweigh 4. I didn't ever say it did.
Great - believe that if you want - I guess. I would believe you if this was your first TT post about this stuff, but considering that I showed how many posts you started about TT (and it has been brought up in this thread also) and not one of them objective and not one of them did you even consider the fact that your own bias could influence what you see or believe. Even in this post - people talk about the fact that there were still a bunch of issues over the middle and you act like you have the definitive research. This is 2 years of this and you were incorrect last offseason and you were shown to be incorrect this offseason. His agent had feelers out to teams and then he "decides" to take a huge pay cut in bot money, guaranteed money, and years, but that was not because he heard his true value - it was because he is a great guy that loves Buffalo.
My mind is made up by what he does on the field and what the coaching staff and GM has stated he needs to improve on both last season and this season. He needs to improve - I am even open to believing that with a new and talented coaching staff - he can improve. I do not think he sucks - as I have stated many time - he was probably the best bet for this team for 2017, but not at the old contract - he just is not ever going to be a long term answer at the position and that is what we need to be successful. With the new contract it is fine and the Bills can move on after this year or next year.
You on the other hand start thread after thread after thread trying to justify why he is a starter and this load of diaper material about his improvements. He is a starter because of his athletic ability and the fact that he took a huge page cut. The rest of the stuff is just filler that you posted to try to make yourself feel better.
I've told you time after time after time why I start Taylor threads. QB is about all I enjoy talking about extensively.
You think I'm not being objective. I say neither are you. Objectivity is impossible in this case.
I'm a lot more objective than some, though, unless you think I made up the research...
I didn't.
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Well, I agree, but you're also the one who asked to rank them in order of importance... and it sure seemed like passing yards was #1 on your list based on the nature of the question.It's funny because I don't think there's a right answer. They are all "within reason" categories for me.
Perfect example. I don't care if you complete 65% of your passes if your YPA is 5.5. That's just not gonna get it done. I'd rather have a guy complete 59% of his passes with a 7.0 YPA.
Similarly, having a good TD:INT ratio is important, but if you throw 15TD's and 2 picks, that's just not a lot of production. I'd much rather have a guy throw 25 TD's and 6 picks. Even though that's a worse ratio.
So, what's the order for you...?
For me, I think this argument boils down to efficiency vs volume. In an ideal world, you have both probably. But for me efficiency trumps volume any day of the week.
Now cross reference Taylor's bad games with bad games of all other NFL QBs...Balt, Mia 1, NE 2, Cincy, Oak, Pitt There are 6.
6 is more than a few. I hope that number doesn't rise without the creampuffs on next years schedule.
How low is his floor compared to say Jay Cutler or Alex Smith?
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Rank the QB stats by importance.
This is a fun exercise so I'll take a stab at it. Can we just preface this with expectations that these "most important stats" are for starting QBs, obviously? Not some WR who throws 7 passes on the season:
#1- TD/Turnover ratio
#2- YPT (Yards Per Touch)
#3- completion %
#4- total yards
Something like that I'd say.
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If I remember correctly you were all over the work Roman was doing at the end of 2015. You must of made 7-8 posts before the start of last season talking exactly about the same stuff you had in this thread and the advancement TT made throughout the year and the way Roman was grooming him.
I know you felt Lynn did a ton to help TT, but by the Pittsburgh game you were even ready to move on. It was not Lynn and play calling it was that TT was not good enough. Then you even went so far as to ask (in another TT thread you started) about what it would take in the last 4 games for people to get back on board. Once he lost in Pittsburgh and they were essentially eliminated - there should have been nothing that changes your opinion from ready to move on after Pittsburgh to the gushing you went to after Miami. It makes no sense to me that games against Cleveland and Miami would impact your decision so much after everything we have seen leading up to those 2 games.
Look good for you - I am hoping having a real coaching staff and an actual OC that can call plays will make for an improvement, but I am not going so far as to look at anything TT has done in 2015 or 2016 and think it was good enough. He is the starting QB and the we will root for him all day and every day and I actually think with a new coaching staff the entire team has chance to improve and as to the things Taylor did that kept him around - those were not things done on the field - as other posters have pointed out - what kept TT in Buffalo for 2017 was a 10 million dollar pay cut and the ability to cut him after this year with a smaller cap hit and a void for years 3-5.
Why does it have to be that you're either "gushing over" Taylor or you think he sucks?
You've had your mind made up on Taylor for a long time and you and many of your ilk view any changes in perspective on him as a bad thing.
I'm sorry, this is the real world, not politics. If I want to change my perspective after seeing Taylor play probably his best game on the football field in his last game from "I don't think Taylor's maybe an NFL starter, but not good enough" after what was a bad 4 game stretch to "I still don't think Taylor's our long term answer, but he can capably be our starter for the time being and has the opportunity to prove he's more, but I want Whaley & Co to draft a QB high," then I'm going to do it.
You remain admirably steadfast, that's fine by me. But if you think just because I started a thread about positive areas on the field for Taylor in 2016 while stating directly in the beginning I don't think he's the long term answer and view him as a Bridge QB that I'm gushing over Taylor... then whatever...
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Look I expected TT to be back and I am not surprised, but I am so glad they got the deal reduced significantly. He is an amazing athlete, but he is not a very good QB. What draws me to that conclusion is what happened after they eliminated Roman - Lynn came on the local radio stations and talked about how he was going to work week after week with TT and find and call plays that TT was comfortable with and what we saw was a change back to a huge percentage of sideline out patterns and comeback/stop routes with little Yards after Catch. Throws that a QB can make because he can see the WR is wide open.
Roman was trying to grow and develop TT - you saw at at the end of 2015 with the patterns and throws after the Bills were eliminated. He was trying to open the offense up and in 2016 the offense did not function against Baltimore and although it produced against NYJ - it was enough that Rex moved on. The route tree and the throws were simplified and TT had some good games and some bad games, but nothing that screams long term starter.
Weird.
Maybe we just see what we want to see because what I saw from Lynn was an inclusion of more of your standard shallow and deep crossing patterns over the middle, not less, and I saw Taylor execute those plays with greater efficiency than he did with Roman. Taylor's numbers "over the middle" (via PFF and ESPN) seem to indicate that as well. Oh I saw the comeback and sideline routes, too, but it's interesting that you think those increased rather than decreased with Lynn.
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There are 11 starters on defense. If the Bills are elite at all the positions you mentioned I assume you think the defense will finish in the top 10 for points and yards this year?
Top 10, not top 5...?
Yeah, very doable.
What is extremely funny about you CoTers is TTs/any passing yards are totally irrelevant in discussions about the offense or lack there of a passing game yet you include and hype up all TT rush yards like it is a deciding factor as to why the rush attack was good and why he is good. Either ALL yards count or they don't in evaluating the QB position!
It's really unbelievable how hypocritical the CoT is!
If all yards counted, why do posters in the "TT sucks" camp not bother to give him equal or even significant credit for those rushing yards?
I agree that all yards matter. That's why I talked about all of them in the OP.
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Wins and losses are a team thing, not a QB thing.
I'd go with the Bills, but only by maybe 55:45. The Raiders, QB aside, are just a better team, with a better GM, who are therefore more likely to get better this offseason. Especially as unlike us, they didn't have cap problems.
Wow... talk about a guy who flip flops positions like a politician...
I'm not even going to explain that statement. You should be able to figure out why it's such a head scratcher based on your own recent statements about our own QB.
Will Thurman#1 ignore a question of his own failed logic or come up with an overwhelmingly convoluted response in an attempt to lose everyone as he tend to or will he admit that his logic is flawed...
Tune in tomorrow!!!
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Jesus...
Fitz had a pretty long NFL career as a stopgap starter for good reason.
EJ really is one of the worst QB to get prolonged action as a starter.
Ridiculous thread.
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We just have a different meaning for elite. When I use the term I think of special talents that create huge problems for the offense. You are using it to mean good or serviceable.
No.
I'm not.
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Hughes has been very good before. Not recently.
Kyle was elite, no longer. Age takes a toll.
Micah Hyde elite? Solid to good
Darby? No.
Ragland. No and he is coming off an ACL
Shaq was nothing special last year. He didn't look any better than Cleveland's 2nd rounder.
Whatever dude... keep those low expectations so you won't be disappointed.
Anti-homers are as bad as homers.
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RAGLAND? LAWSON?
They're on our team, right?
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Buffalo finished 19th in defense last year and Carolina finished 20th. But Bills defensive line has Kyle Williams who is in rapid decline.
Rapid decline?
What the hell are you talking about?
Kyle was fantastic last year and showed no signs of slowing down.
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Wait... Hughes, Dareus, Kyle Williams, Micah Hyde, Darby... maybe Ragland and Lawson...I think McDermott has proven with elite talent he can do well. Bills don't have that on defense at the moment.
All those guys have been pretty close to Elite players recently... heck, toss Alexander in there last year, too.
What do you think we have on this defense? Scrubs?
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McDermott's defense was worse than Rex's last year in yards and points per game.
Bills have lack of safeties, corners, and linebackers. I don't see it.
But what did his defense do 2 years ago?
I understand your position, though.
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Then by that definition Tyrod is not good enough to go on a playoff run. Maybe if the Bills were in a weak division Bills could sneak in. Only way Tyrod could get to playoffs is by being carried by a top 5 defense.
Bills would get smoked as under Tyrod Bills always lose to teams with .500 or better records.
By that definition...?
Who wouldn't define a "run" as winning at least a couple games?
Considering our new HC and what he did 2 years ago on defense, I have hope.
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But that's nothing but a straw man that people are setting the bar at Brady. Nobody is except in Tyrod fanboy imaginations.
Except for the fact that the guy I responded to directly referenced Jim Kelly, a 1st ballot HOFer.
So some form of a comparison was being made of Taylor to a 1st ballot HOFer.
No straw man, whatsoever, except for all the straws you're grasping at now....
BAAAZIINNNG!!!!
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Agreed he's good enough to get us a playoff run.
Hard to care. The only thing that should matter is being competitive for the Super Bowl, and he simply doesn't look good enough to do that without a defense spectacular enough to get there with someone like Trent Dilfer, and defenses like that are rare. Generally around one team every ten years or so wins an SB without a top ten to twelve QB. That's the bar. And it seems very very unlikely Tyrod will clear it.
He's on the roster so it's worth hoping for but QBs getting that good suddenly in their 7th year are spectacularly rare.
A playoff run is winning a couple playoff games, unless you have your own definition. If you're good enough to get to the conference championship, anything can happen regarding getting to the Super Bowl.
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Deep ball went to 12th to 27th.
Remember when the defense went from 4th to 19th? What did you call that?
Yeah... that's what's going to happen when you have Sammy healthy for 12/14 games you play in 2015 vs a hobbled Sammy in only 7/15 games in 2016.
Do people honestly not understand this?
Taylor is not Brady. He's not going to elevate the guys around him. Those guys are incredibly rare and if that's the bar you're setting, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
But what Taylor might be (and there's evidence to support this) is a guy whose play itself will be more than adequate for a serious playoff run if he has some legitimate, healthy weapons and an above average (not Elite, but definitely above average) defense.
This team has been snakebit in so many ways. Just gotta hope it stops.
Jim Kelly and Steve Tasker had a great season throwing and catching passes when the main WRs were done.
As I just said, everyone who has their bar set at "1st ballot HOFer" like Kelly or Brady should brace themselves for likely being disappointed for the rest of their lives.
That's a mighty high bar. And it's unnecessary for it to be that high.
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The clock is ticking on Tyrod and the posters who keep trying to sell him to everyone else.
Year three is on the way, and the excuses are running out.
Hopefully these guys will find another bum to obsess over once this experiment runs it's course.
And lol to anyone who thinks Tyrod is better than Wentz. One guy actually ran an offense and made calls at the line in a much more complex system as opposed to Taylor who has little to no ability to change plays. Wentz as a rookie is much more the QB than Taylor in his sixth season in the pros. Manning had a lot of turnovers in his rookie season, too...it's because these guys are learning how to run a real passing offense.
No one...and I mean no one would take Taylor over Wentz. Anyone who thinks it's even debatable shouldn't be taken seriously when discussing football.
Clock is ticking for everyone.
Clearly you don't have a clue how much longer Taylor will be in Buffalo, though.
Remember how stupidly adamant you were that he'd be gone and how giddy and excited you were about insulting those of us who thought he'd be back?
You can "lol" all you want about Taylor vs Wentz. Taylor outplayed Wentz in 2016, so I don't know why you would arrogantly call people out if they chose Taylor over him. Wentz might very well have an RG3 nosedive. Who knows?
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I don't dispute the argument that we might be able to make the playoffs with Taylor. But in my mind that's the absolute height of our aspirations with him.
This argument stemmend from a poster who said the only reason to take Wentz over Taylor was their respective ages, which I completely disagree with. Wentz is the kind of prospect you build a franchise around, and Taylor simply isn't.
I gotta say people are too quick to label players.
Remember what seems like ages ago now when Ryan Tannehill and Colin Kaepernick and RG3 were constantly called "Elite" and Kirk Cousins was one of the worst QBs in football?
I'm sorry, but we're too quick to put these types of labels on players. It's utterly ridiculous to do it after one year.
Wentz has the potential, that doesn't mean he's going to meet it. He could bomb out like rg3 or Kaep.
And the fact that Taylor has almost 2 full NFL seasons under his belt and has been at the very least a competent NFL starter indicates Taylor has more potential, too. He could improve drastically like Cousins did.
In a vacuum, I take Wentz. But it's not as cut and dry as you're making it and not a quick decision.
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This is what scares me, having Sammy and another top WR hanging out in the end zone wide open while Tyrod runs for his life.
264/415 (63.6%), 3430 yards, 8.3 YPA, 27 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 105.2
vs
248/402 (61.7%), 2628 yards, 6.5 YPA, 10 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 82.8
One of those is Taylor's numbers with a real #1 & #2 NFL WR in Watkins and Woods. The other is with one or both missing. Guess which is which...
*Hint* It makes your post foolish
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John, you might be lost but don't assume that life is as hard for everyone else.
The Bills were not going to pick up the option. Fact.
Bills were looking at Glennon and asking about Siemian. Fact
Tyrod took a significant paycut after his agent inquired what else was out there. Fact.
Tyrod got paid like a bridge QB. Fact.
Sean McDermott said Tyrod was the best move for the Bills "at this time". Fact.
Saying something is a fact doesn't actually make an opinion a fact.
You know that, right?
Things Taylor did on the field in 2016 that kept him around
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Am I trasplatted?
If so, can you point out where I come out and say someone's opinion is flat out wrong? I admit that I greet hostility with my own hostility... of that I'm guilty. But can you point to a post where I just literally say someone's opinion is wrong?
Much appreciated!