transplantbillsfan
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Posts posted by transplantbillsfan
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People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones transplant.
I've an idea for you. Start a new thread / Poll and make it public where people can go on record. This way we shall see "for real" who is in the minority and who isn't.
Maybe some people are sick and tired of posting the same thing day after day after day after day. I know I grow tired of it.
I'm even more tired of being called out as a hater and having an agenda.
Your idea for a new thread has been done before. Don't you remember? There was a real minority of people who thought Taylor was a real problem.
And I'm sorry, if you guys are so tired of posting and some are going to just get angry and belligerent (and I'm not talking about you), then why are you posting in these topics you're so sick of discussing?
It absolutely baffles my mind.
And yes, I realize I'm not guilt free. I could always keep my mouth shut and not respond to what are turning into more and more angry and/or belligerent and/or middle school posts, but I haven't been.
With that, I'll try harder to not respond to those posts... or at least do so without bringing myself down to their level.
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Which Gruden brother are you ?
Productive post
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i don't think there are a lot of people complaining about the offense. the DEFENSE is what let us down last year. the only complaint about the offense was that once down, there was no way we are coming back. Tyrod can't air it out and get us back into games if we are down by a lot and he can't lead a game winning 2 min drive. the only way this will work is with a dominating defense that keeps the score low and for Tyrod and company to effectively and consistently move the ball and put up points
There are at least an incredibly vocal minority complaining about the offense. It's possible there aren't a lot of them, but the few there are get very vocal and sometimes belligerent about it.
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Just read through this thread, and clearly Thurman and Rochesterfan had the best and most accurate posts.
This thread kind of piggybacks off of the last Tyrod thread and Transplants post near the end about Tyrod and how he fares under pressure, and at that time I argued how that was not surprising because of his mobility and ability to make things happen. It was met with opposition from a certain pro Tyrod poster who challenged this assertion with inadequate information. I'm glad to see this brought back up so that we can get more answers on it.
You can name me. You don't have to say "a certain pro Tyrod poster." I was the one who challenged your assertion because it was wrong.
You, Thurman, and RF all seem to be under the impression that every time Taylor's under pressure, he breaks the pocket or scrambles. You call visual proof from easy access of Taylor's TD highlights, which show a QB only leaving the pocket 20% of the time when pressured "inadequate information?" If it is, I don't know what to give you. You certainly aren't going to trust me if I go through every single pass of Taylor and count 'em up. I won't waste my time doing that when there's no chance anything will sway you.
If you have game pass, go watch every single passing play from Taylor and count them up for yourself. Even if you're looking at those plays with biased eyes, at least you're putting in some effort
Can we just wait for the 2017 season and let that speak for itself?
Then what are we supposed to do here in the meantime?
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God - I try to stay out, but it just keeps coming back and I am sure like all of the other TT threads - we will have the exact same groups on both sides calling each other names and complaining about being insulted - such fun, but I digress.
Thanks Happy - I like the thought, but I am not sure what it really tells us. First - the best part of TT's game is his mobility - so none of the stats "surprise" me. What it tells me is that under pressure - where he can't think and plays on instinct - he plays better. When he has time and an open field to read and absorb - he wants to make the perfect play and therefore is much less effective.
What to me is truly scary is his TDs - well over half of his TD throws by this were under pressure - yet he was under pressure about 1/3 of the time. He needs to get much, much better in the flow of a game.
Overall the combination of articles tell me 2 things - 1 Tyrod's legs are a huge part of his game and really helps with his play under pressure to escape and both run and throw. 2 - if I am a team playing TT - I look to what Baltimore did and I want to force him to be a QB and force him to read the field and make decisions- I think that is where TT struggles and that is why teams talk about making him be a QB.
He is an improviser and his legs are a major part of his game, but the 2/3 of a time that teams did not pressure him and force him to make a play - his play tailed off. We will see what happens next - I will let you get back to insulting each other now.
Soooo... this article includes scrambles, yes. It includes them for all QBs.
You and Thurm have the same conclusions, it seems... that this reveals nothing new because we always knew he was a great runner.
Why are you latching onto 25% of the "pressured" plays he's referring to? I say 25% because Taylor scrambled 47 times. But there were 188 "pass plays with pressure" that footballoutsiders article refers to.
This isn't all about his legs. He stood in the pocket and delivered plenty of passes with pressure around him or coming straight at him. Just go watch his TD highlights and you can pretty easily figure out which ones are the pressure plays and which ones are the non pressure plays. By my count (and please, check for yourself and let me know if I counted wrong and which plays you included), of the 10 relatively obvious "pressure plays" on his passing TDs (since we know from those other sources he has 10 passing TDs under pressure) Taylor only left the pocket twice. Those were the TD pass to Salas in the Jets game and the TD pass to Hunter in the back of the end zone in the Rams game. That means he stood in the pocket and delivered 80% of his TD passes that were under pressure.
And saying at those points he just always is "acting on instinct" ignores plays like the TD pass to Goodwin in the 1st Dolphins game with the defender running free straight at him and plowing him to the ground. Or the Steelers game with the pass to Clay where he pump fakes to try to make just enough room to get the ball to Clay before getting tackled.
You're right, it's just another thread with people lumped in their camps, which is simply a shame because it makes civil and rational discussion absolutely impossible.
It'd be helpful if everyone at least understood what the articles actually said before scurrying to try to fit that square study into their round narrative
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Dude, I wasn't implying that or anything like that. You didn't just miss the point, you selected a new point out of thin air and assumed it was mine.
Of course it considers passing, sacks AND scrambles. That's what I said. Take a look:
Get it?
Since passing DVOA already includes sacks ... when I was talking about their adjustments and said "if you include scrambles past the LOS" I was of course pointing out that the second stat includes passes, sacks and scrambles.
So -for the second time - of course adding Tyrod's scrambles to his passing DVOA is going to make him look better than it makes most NFL QBs look. We all know that's the strong part of his game.
Whyncha try reading carefully next time before you get your panties all sweaty and in a bunch.
*sigh*
I'm not missing anything, Thurm. I read it all. Did you read the article?
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2016
Today, we are looking at our charting results for quarterbacks and pressure for the 2016 regular season. These are always some of the most cited and noteworthy numbers in Football Outsiders Almanac (the 2017 edition will be available in July!). This data primarily comes from Sports Information Solutions charting, although we also have access to ESPN Stats & Information data and we use that to check against the SIS data. Pressure will always have a subjective element to it, but we feel that comparing the two sources has led to a more accurate measurement.
They didn't just "add in scrambles." They factored in only passing plays where the QBs faced pressure. That's different.
You said, "I'm worried about Tyrod's pass game, not his run game," when, in fact, these numbers factor in both. And considering how how Taylor's passer rating is under pressure, if it doesn't change anything for you, you should at least understand what it says before deciding that it changes nothing for you.
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This seems to me to show that Tyrod was very good at running the ball. And that that is also true when he's under pressure.
I would have guessed that.
The stat addresses the fact that if you include scrambles past the LOS, the DVOA (really a whole offense stat, not an individual player stat, as Football Outsiders not just admits but publicizes) improves. Yeah, I would have expected that. I've never ever been concerned about his scrambles once he gets past the LOS.
I'm worried about his pass game. Not Tyrod's run game. I know that's excellent, and I think we all do.
This also doesn't change anything for me.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2016
Instead, this rating represents team offensive DVOA with this quarterback either passing (including sacks) or scrambling.
Ummm... what?
This icreased DVOA (and he jumps all the way up to #2, so far from an insignificant jump) doesn't only consider his scrambles (as you imply in your utterly dismissive attitude), it considers passing, sacks, AND scrambles...
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Clearly that's simply not the way some people operateI just don't understand how the Bills fans are always left off the top fan articles.
I just don't get it.
Oh... Well it might be because some fans call our qb a "turd" and others go into threads they don't have anything constructive to say to call people deciding to be positive about our qb situation "insecure".
I mean, we could just be having a conversation. Don't like the topic? Stay out of the thread. Easy.
Insecure to talk about the qb of your football team? Yikes. I feel bad for anyone in your life that doesn't feel exactly as you do about things.
Differing opinion = insecurity? Wow.
Hap, I'm sorry for being a part of potentially derailing this thread. It's interesting and new stuff and worth at least a discussion.
Exactly!I wish I was, I'd automatically ban anyone that gripes about a thread being started.
It's s message board, if threads aren't started there's no conversation.
It's like whining that you're being given too many options at dinner.
Don't like it? Don't eat it.
Talk about a handful who lack any restraint.
Sorry... I can't resist, but DUDE!!!!!Safe space. I'm gonna stand by the door and keep old school out too.
How many times are you gonna say you're going to stop posting on this subject only to keep posting on the subject?!?!
Yeah a buncha douchebags flooded the thread starting **** just hurling insults rather than remotely talking about the subject.ahaahahaaaaa.
the only problem i can see with this, is that the truth of this post will fly over the head of quite a number of those in the Tyrod Camp.
i was gonna start a thread on the over/under number of days before another Tyrod thread would pop up after the last one got locked down. but i figured it would be sooner rather than later.....
Why shouldn't there always be a thread on page 1 to discuss the starting QB of our favorite football team?
Lolz those 70 yards passing through 3 qtrs really had Big Ben shook. Congrats for tooting that garbage time horn.
This TT biasness and excusemaking is top notch. I can't even anymore.
Enjoy your offseason sir. I'm out of the qb talk/delusion game Til winter.
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Yeah I'm happy you posted that... it provides some validity at least to when I broke down Taylor's scrambles as separate from his designed runs.I wasn't going to with just the sack/conversion study. But then that FO article was published today and it left me no choice.
Looks like our OL was a big issue
Whatever happened to you being done with all the Tyrod discussion?Factually wrong ? Wrong
You're a TT guy and you want to prop him up, that doesn't change the fact he's 1-6 vs .500 teams.
I am factually right if you want to drop this biasness and deal with hard cold facts. Don't disrespect Archimedes bro !
Seasons over, Bills sucked again, thanks to Jacoby Brissett for the 1.
Show me the money in 2017.
It's pretty dumb to not examine the Seattle game or 2nd Miami game this year as positives and proof a Taylor led team is capable of doing serious damage against good teams.Let's go back 2 years to find positives. Nice.
Beating Fitz and Hoyer is quite a feather in the cap. The colts win was something, it felt like we didn't suck for a solid few weeks
It's like you're incapable of saying anything positive.
Instead, you resort to "pantsed" as your go-to...
How old are you?
You keep jumping into these threads and saying you're done with this discussion, without prompting by anyone.
Dude, are you bipolar?
Clearly you're the one who needs Dr. Phil
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I'm a troll because I'd rather draft a qb then watch a guy who put up a 1-6 record vs .500 teams ?
Interesting take. Apologies for wanting more and adios thread. This is devolving into nonsense like the other locked TT thread.
Have fun with the wishing for 9-7 thing.
1-6 No 49ers on schedule this year. Pretend all is well if you must.
I love you all, but let's not forget all the times Tyrod was pantsed by real qb's
And this concludes Tyrod 2016. Part 45,663
and another post
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I didn't skip anything, i watched him poop his pants vs the Ravens, Steelers, Raiders, Bengals, Patriots and Dolphins.
Guess my memory is better than yours. We don't have to agree, you obviously want to give him more chances while I don't ever want to see another Steelers/Raiders/Pats w Brady game again. (My man can't even pass for 200 yards while getting blown out? Gross!)
Don't quote me. I'm out of this subject. You can't convert me lol.
and two posts later...
I see you haven't met Transplant and Jm yet.
They love Taylor more than I love Scarjo and Hathaway.
How many times in this thread alone are you going to say you're done with the subject only to come right back into the discussion you just said you were going to leave?
You just can't quit us, can you?
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Whoa... good stuff! Glad you started this, Hap! Thanks
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Do me a favor and never ever ever ever offer me any advice again.
I don't care about your love affair with all things Taylor. it's a passing league. We need a qb, sorry this offends you.
The horse is all yours, I'm out. Fanboys gonna Fanboy.
Wow, no problem dishing it out but just can't take it, huh?
You keep implying you're done with these conversations and then you keep coming back.
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I stand on the no more backup retreads as Bills starters, draft a qb high platform.
It's a passing league and we can't pass. Jmo of course but I knew we were toast after the Bengals game, then the Raiders and Steelers games cemented it.
I see 5-11 this year and I hope it's not the end of Sammy and Shady in Buffalo.
Wanna make a fun wager? I say the Bills get to at least 8 wins.
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You can't be trusted on this matter. Everyone knows where you stand.
The passing game was just as bad as the defense, maybe worse.
See ya after the jets game bud. I'm not interested in the "if" game.
If you aren't interested in the "if" game, why are you here? That's literally all there is to discuss in the offseason, whether it's past or future "ifs."
And if you're so tired of seeing a dead horse beaten, do yourself a favor and just ignore the conversations
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https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-hc-mcdermott-impressed-with-tyrod-taylors-leadership/
- Taylor’s passer rating in 2016 when under pressure of 80.1 was seventh best among qualifying quarterbacks, while his 10 touchdowns thrown in those circumstances was tied for third.
And anyone wondering who the 2 QBs ahead of him are, it's Aaron Rodgers with 12 TDs and Andrew Luck with 11. Russell Wilson also threw 10 TDs under pressure.
- Taylor’s passer rating in 2016 when under pressure of 80.1 was seventh best among qualifying quarterbacks, while his 10 touchdowns thrown in those circumstances was tied for third.
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No.. But I am bored to tears by your nothing stat.... Can you draw any worthwhile conclusions? Perhaps we should just let 'em sack Taylor to move the chains....
Boy, you're just a bitter bundle of middle school, aren't you?
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The offense was a lot more efficient with Taylor/Lynn, too. Buffalo's 3 & out % and TOP (both areas of huge complaint for some) both go from bottom of the barrel to middle of the pack if you're only looking at the Taylor/Lynn combo.It boils down to this : After Lynn replaced Roman as OC, the Taylor-led Bills scored points at the 4th highest rate in the NFL, using the 2016 team scoring numbers as a benchmark. Of course Old School can have dozens of objections and qualifications to that fact, no doubt every single one legit. But the fact remains promising nonetheless - suggesting the team has a strong offensive foundation. If the new regime builds on what worked last year; if a good set of receivers emerge and stay healthy; if Taylor is a bit more consistent - then Buffalo will have a very potent offense. At which point the team's ceiling will be set by the defense - and that has to be significantly better, right?
You mad, brah?Tyrod plays well after you knock some sense into him?... Great!.... Kick him in the nuts once every down, and let's run the K-gun!
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So which 3 games did you randomly pick to take away from every other team in the league for this comparison?
Why do you need to randomly take away from other teams if you're doing it on a per game basis? If there are other teams that had similar changes in offensive play callers that'd make sense comparatively, but who are those teams?
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Transplant - this is off topic but I think you'd enjoy this Chris Trapasso article:
Didn't feel like making a whole thread for it which is probably the right call.
So I think all this stuff is worth a look. It's pretty darn interesting.
So the Bills had 46 sacks, but Taylor was sacked 42 times. EJ was sacked 3 times and Jones was sacked once. The offense converted one of those sacks on EJ for a 1st down.
So, Taylor's offense was 12/42 (still 28.6%) in converting 1st downs for a sack. But 16 of his 42 sacks were on 3rd down, which are plays I think it'd be hard to call "drive-killers" in the manner some people use that phrase.
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Transplant - this is off topic but I think you'd enjoy this Chris Trapasso article:
Didn't feel like making a whole thread for it which is probably the right call.
Hap, we're nubes so I understand the hesitation for making a new thread for something like this, but I actually think this link and the 2 articles in the "study" it references actually deserves it's own thread. There are going to be a couple of the (*ahem*) usual suspects who criticize the Tyrod homers for coming out in full force, but I don't think this is a study anyone has really seen or discussed.
I'm still digesting some of it myself. I'll come back here to comment on it if you haven't started a separate thread. Thanks! Intriguing stuff
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Haaa. Laughable!
So, calling someone a tightwad now is "bashing them"? I only re-iterated what dozens of sports websites already observed.
When I said "only the worst posters on the board took the thread as an opportunity to bash Tyrod" I meant the thread wasn't about bashing him at all...
And yes, I called out a few of his cabana-boys for overreacting to stats that could be critical of him... This is actually VERY good... I receive similar drama whenever I shine a light on a coach or player with an issue...
9 times out of 10, That player/coach is GONE shortly thereafter... So shoot the messenger if you must... I'm used to it... Just don't whine when he shoots back a time or two...
Yes. Calling someone a tightwad is bashing him. It's an inflammatory statement.
If you really can't see that, I think the next logical question would be: have you graduated High School, yet?
There were plenty of other ways to say what you said. Instead, you chose to go the middle-school route throwing out playground insults.
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Only the worst posters on the board took the thread as an opportunity to bash Tyrod... I actually thought the site would be a good resource for anyone else to assemble their
own stats, and theories for the upcoming season. The thread itself highlighted a passing stat that was 32nd in a ranking of 32 teams.. When coupled with other low-end
passing stats, it reveals a situationthat I feel requires improvement... Why? -Because the defense could still be an issue this season... In that event, this team cannot count
on an abundance of 4-12, 2-14, and 1-15 pushovers to boost our win total... We will have to out-score good teams... So, to those content with dumping the entire failed
season at the feet of Rex Ryans staff, I will tell you that you are 100% not wrong.. I'll also remind you that Rex is no longer here to blame... Don't be shocked if a stat many
of you dismiss, comes back to haunt you in a big way.
Dude... look at your 2nd and especially your 3rd posts in your own thread from page 1:
Alot of them went into Taylor Savings & Loan... Well, mostly SAVINGS... That's where Tightwad keeps all the wide open guys he didn't hit, and all the plays he left on the field because he was scared to throw.
Yah... guys were hurt... The WR corp. was weak.... Still, there were many opportunities TT let sail by...
This year's schedule offers little in the way of forgiveness for such mistakes.
Bottom line? -Ball's gotta fly in '17. or we CRY in '17... -AGAIN!
You're calling yourself one of the worst posters on the board
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Very good point, Shady! I'm impressed.....
Also, Taylor does pretty well when throwing to a legitimate No. 1 & 2 receiver - something he rarely had last year, the hobbled, crippled and MIA notwithstanding......
Tyrod's stats in the 15 games where both Watkins and Woods plays : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs
Yeah, and that's a big part of the problem here. Taylor was missing his top WRs in his not-so-deep WR corps more than most teams. Woods and Sammy missed a combined 11 games in 2016.
Only the Jets and Chargers had their #1 and #2 WRs miss more games than Sammy and Woods. 2 other teams missed their #1 and #2 WRs 11 games like Buffalo: Tampa Bay and Chicago.
None of those teams made the playoffs.
By contrast, the 8 teams with the fewest games missed by their WRs all made the playoffs:
Detroit (1)
NYG (2)
Houston (2)
New England (4) 5 if you take Edleman, Amendola, and Hogan as a group
Atlanta (4)
Green Bay (4)
Dallas (4)
Kansas City (4)
New data shows Tyrod/the offense was better than you thought
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by transplantbillsfan
There have been polls. But if you make that poll with your wording "Is TT the "real" problem, or is TT the long term answer," you leave out all the middle ground where the vast majority I'm talking about sit.
I'm speaking for myself, but I believe the vast majority are, at best, "undecided, but somewhat encouraged" as to whether TT is the long term answer, but believe what he's done so far warrants a longer look.
If you think this poll should be created and you think wording is key, you should create that poll. But again, we had something like that as a poll over at BBMB, and it truly was a vocal minority who thought TT was "the real" or even "a big" problem.