transplantbillsfan
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Posts posted by transplantbillsfan
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So then Transplant and JM2009 shouldn't be taken serious either since they both do the same, but to a higher degree.
I'm held to a higher standard because I don't have high regard for Taylor as a player...simple as that.
Dude, I won't pretend to be innocent, but you pretty clearly like to start $H!+ and use much more vitriol ("clowns and fools," "transplant's got it hard for Taylor," etc) than almost anyone else.
Stop pretending you should be viewed as a martyr
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Lol.
The only one in denial here is you.
Tendencies can't be determined on 17 throws...sorry, bud.
You want to make a point to counter my claims with little to nothing to back it up, and when I direct you on how you can truly make a valid point and legitimately counter my reasoning, you get sensitive and chirp about how you don't "need" to do anything. Ok, you don't need to, but don't come back with some weak response pretending that you actually came back with something worthwhile...that trash you typed up doesn't deserve the time of day.
I've put in more time researching on my own and bringing up facts on this matter than you ever will, so save you're I'm too cool to listen to you BS and come to the table with something substantial or go back to discussing with the puppets and uninformed...you appear to be in the same category lately.
You've put time in for research?
Doubtful.
Crusher, you started a single thread on BBMB that contained some pretty solid research to discuss. I defended you when that thread closed down because I thought it was unfair and ridiculous.
That's the kind of Crusher I hoped to see over here with a brand new fresh start.
Unfortunately, that thread was an outlier for you.
I don't need to go figure out the throws because nothing is going to convince you to acknowledge any level of promise from Taylor in terms of the QB position as you want it played.
You believe that you're somehow showing objectivity when you acknowledge strengths like "a great deep ball" or "elite athleticism" or "a great runner," except you aren't because you choose pretty much inarguably his universal strengths.
But you get those 17 throws to look at (did you even bother going and watching the throws you?) and pretty much acknowledge that he does what you think he doesn't do well on those throws and now need to see the rest of the throws and get numbers for how many were outside of the pocket rather than in the pocket...?
Crusher, you must be desperate.
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It doesn't matter. I only asked him how he thought Tyrod would have done if put in a similar situation as Fitz. You're putting way too much thought into this.
Bang... you and I just had a discussion about what you called something "petty" by me yesterday. Here you're being dismissive of Shaw for pointing something out that actually seems like a natural thought:
You're asking how Taylor would have done with Fitz's WRs, so it sure seems like a point of at least questionable comparison.
I'm really not trying to pick a fight here... and maybe you're just having some Internet fun... but just be wary of the way you point your finger...
I heart you so much
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Crusher -
Do you have any data to back this up? I'm more interested in Taylor data than Fitz data - I'm pretty confident I know that Fitz failed late in games, but I'm not so sure you're correct about Taylor - either about failing or about the reason you think he failed.
Fitz's career passer rating is 80. He was high 80s low 90s only two seasons in his career; most seasons his passer rating was in the low 80s or below. So that means isn't a very effective QB, period. When you look at his splits, you can see he was particularly bad at the end of the game. Career 4th quarter rating - 71, below his career average generally - in other words, he's better in earlier quarters. Tied, or trailing with less than 2 or 4 minutes to play, his passer rating is regularly around 50. 85 in games that are tied, 73 when his team is trailing. So, compared to his own averages, he's played really poorly in the last few minutes of games when his team needed scores.
Taylor is different. He has a career passer rating of 92, which is a really solid number. When you look at his splits, you see that he performs about as well in end-of-game situations as at other times of the game. Fourth quarter rating is 88, a little below his average, but not bad. Tied with less than 4 minutes to go his rating is 149. Trailing, less than 2 or 4 minutes to go, he's around 85. 89 when tied, 90 when trailing. Not great, and maybe not good enough, but unquestionably better than Fitz. Not even the same league.
So unless you have other data, I don't see that there's much comparison between the two. The question, as I intimated, is whether what Taylor has done is good enough. So look at Matt Ryan, someone who probably isn't a hall of famer but definitely is a franchise qb. Passer rating over 93. Career splits: 4th quarter, 85. When tied or losing with less than 4 and 2 minutes to go, passer rating in the 40s and 60s! Tied generally 95, trailing generally 90. So compared to Matt Ryan, Tyrod looks like he's right there.
How about Aaron Rodgers? Career rating 104. Fourth quarter 102. Tied or trailing with 4 or 2 minutes left, 115, 94, 65, 76. 107 tied generally, 99 trailing. So Rodgers performs at the end of games about as he does at other times.
What does it all mean? It means, I think, that we'd certainly want Taylor to be better at the end of games, but he (and at least two inarguably good quarterbacks) perform about as well at the end of games as they do the other 55 minutes. That, in turn, means that Taylor's problem (if he has a problem) is that he isn't good enough generally, not that he isn't good enough at the end of the game.
The problem (which you are sure he has and I am not so sure) is that Taylor can't perform at relatively high levels (passer rating in mid-90s) if he's called on to throw 35 times a game regularly. I think you and I agree that the Bills need a QB who can perform at a high level throwing 35 times a game instead of 25. I really hope we see Taylor in that kind of offense this season, because that will tell us how good Taylor really is.
Stop. What are you saying? That Taylor is better or isn't? Are you saying Taylor throwing to those receivers would have gotten the same results, then why do you think Taylor is better.
The simple fact is that Taylor is unquestionably better than Fitzpatrick. Unquestionably. Taylor's WORST season was better than Fitzy's second BEST season. And Taylor can run. There's no comparison, regardless of receivers.
And, by the way, look at Taylor's receivers last season. Were they actually better than the four you named? Hard to say.
Very. Solid. Post.
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Fitz is more of a gamer compared to Tyrod.
When judging these two I'll use the 300 games of TT vrs Fitz and it isn't even a battle, Tyrod is on the bench wishing for a OT to get that 300 once while Fitz is fighting throwing INTs to get more then 10xs that. Eitherway they both are just not good enough, too bad we couldn't have the two of them cloned into one.
Hooray for 300 yard games as the measure to end all measures!!!
Let's all just hope Taylor doesn't come out with another "We're ready" video the night before our week 1 game against the Jets
The premise of what I'm saying is not wrong when the discussion wasn't about his 17 TD passes. We are talking about the 143 throws that they claimed TT was under pressure on...the TD throws are a small sampling of that.
What you would need in order to claim I'm missing the mark would be to chart all of those throws and give me a number on how many he stood in and completed without using his athleticism.
When you do that and show me an amount that would "encourage" me, then you would be correct saying what you said.
I don't need to do that at all. Nice try, though.
The TD passes and interceptions themselves, for that matter, demonstrate that these numbers are incorporating passes in the pocket as well as outside the pocket from Taylor.
And just from watching his TDs and INTs alone, you can see that Taylor's tendency was actually to stay in the pocket and deliver the ball even with pressure coming.
There were absolutely passes and plays where he evaded pressure and left the pocket and then delivered the ball, like his 2nd TD pass in the Jets game, but then there were those passes where he stood tall in the pocket with a defender (often) barreling directly at him in full sight and he delivered, like his TD pass to Goodwin in the 1st 'Phins game. And you just watch the TDs and INTs he threw and you can see that Taylor had no problems in the pocket in the midst of pressure.
You're just in extreme denial if you're calling for every single pass at this point.
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What happened to you Foxx, you used to root for the team. People are getting a liiiiiiittle too invested in this. A good practice should be a positive thing for all Bills fans, not an excuse to make a dig at a player.
I think Foxx has been having a little fun to some degree taking on this Persona...
I hope at least...
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... "This was a good sign for Taylor, especially considering that the other five workouts weve seen has featured him really playing at an average to below average level" ...
maybe they told the defense to take it down a notch?
These Training Camp discussions are gonna be fun
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And from Joe B, today:doesn't sound like things have changed much during the off season.
gonna be a loooooooonnnnnggggg season....
1) Tyrod Taylor has his sharpest day yet
- Through six workouts that the media has been able to view during the spring offseason sessions, the best day weve seen from starting quarterback Tyrod Taylor was saved for the last day of school, so to speak. Taylor started off slowly with an interception, but after that, he was as sharp as could be. He was hitting his receivers in stride, sensing the pressure of the defense to find the bust in coverage, and firing the ball into his targets. This was a good sign for Taylor, especially considering that the other five workouts weve seen has featured him really playing at an average to below average level and that can be attributed to a number of different things, too. Hes working in a brand new offense, hes working with receivers he hadnt met before a couple of months ago, and a host of other issues, too. Now, he can pocket a great performance on the final day of minicamp and will look to continue that into the start of training camp. For the Bills to be at all competitive this year, theyll need Taylor healthy and to be playing at a similar level to last year at least.
Maybe things have changed, he's just gotta readjust to a new offense, again.
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And six points under league average without pressure.
It figures Tyrod is good under pressure since his elite athleticism can overcome that pressure by escaping it. I've never disputed his ability to get out of the pocket and make throws either, so this was never a criticism of TT from myself anyway.
Yeah, he was absolutely underwhelming without pressure, true.
But the problem with your qualifier in the 2nd paragraph is your assumption that it's his passing out of the pocket that boosts him up... directly from the article:
Tyrod was 64 of 143 (44.7%) for 996 yards (6.96 yards per attempt) with 10 TDs and four INTs while under pressure in 2016.
Now I'm not presuming to figure out every single pass they've recorded, but according to PFF, 10 of his TDs were under pressure.
Now go to YouTube and count how many of his 17 TD passes he left the pocket for. I think you're going to be surprised (dare I even say encouraged?) at the fraction of his TD passes alone he actually left the pocket. If that's any indication of the rest of the throws they counted, the entire premise of what you say here is missing the mark.
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You should write a biography "off the wall"
This is too emo for the wall.
Aww... you want to join for Bocce and beer, too?
Just bring Heineken.
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Back to discussion of the relative topic at hand entitled:
Tyrod Taylor had 7th-best QB rating while under pressure in 2016
And here's Trappasso's conclusion (he's clearly a Tyrod homer
):The combination of these advanced statistics helps to dispel the notion that Tyrod is ineffective in the face of pressure because he morphs into a running back in those situations.
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Thanks! I needed that... I mean my life revolves around these Internet victoriesYou're being overly dramatic and I'm not making it personal.
You're obviously someone who gets off on trying to prove points. If you think I'm being hypocritical then fine. You can have your petty victory.
We're still on for bocce and beers later, right?
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I don't think I've changed much, and Crusher sure as hell hasn't changed me. I'm not being petty and think I'm being pretty direct, which is exactly the opposite of passive aggressive. You're trying to make this personal for some reason. If you can't even acknowledge there's some level of hypocrisy in your line of thinking I guess that's fine. You're a poster I respect even though we often disagree,You're so used to being petty and passive aggressive that it just comes naturally at this point. All those hours spent arguing with Crusher have changed you.
You're making something personal by calling me names when there's no need to.
I've been proven wrong... even hypocritical in the past. When someone points it out, I'll own it and admit it. Or I'll explain myself if I think it's necessary.
You're just perpetuating personal attacks by insulting me, instead.
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doesn't sound like things have changed much during the off season.
gonna be a loooooooonnnnnggggg season....
Oh boy... we're already starting with these practice reports...
Well... might as well give you a counter:
http://www.wgr550.com/articles/bills-wrap-hyper-competitive-minicamp-next-stop-training-camp
—The offense had a much better day throwing the football overall, especially in the red zone. Multiple TD passes were thrown by Tyrod Taylor in the red area while the starters were going against one another.
Good to end strong going into a 6 week hiatus and end on a high note
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i'll settle for him just beating good teams. i don't care how he does it, just do it. he hasn't been able to the last two years.
Do you mean beating good teams consistently or ever?
If consistently, okay. If ever, he's beaten good teams as a starter.
The team (with him at QB) beat the playoff bound Texans last year and the 3-0 Patriots who shut out a playoff bound team 10 days earlier (3 days extra rest and prep for the greatest coaching mind in history) with exactly the same QB at the helm as the Bills would go on to shut them out.
I get that absolutely everyone wants to pile on that Patriots game being without Brady, but that was still a pretty darn good team.
It's me saying I'd gladly welcome more interceptions in exchange for more TDs and wins. Kind of petty for you to focus on a 2 letter word like this.
I'm not trying to be petty, I'm fine with "what if" conversations... and I guess you are, too. But only when they suit you.
Even if the Miami game and Seattle game are Taylor's ceiling, if he can more consistently play to that level and have fewer games like Cincinnati and Baltimore, he'd be just fine.
That Miami game was just a perfect storm of crap going against him after bringing the team down for the late go ahead TD.
Not a fan of this logic really.
... ?
You're not a fan of the logic you pretty much entirely agree with...?
I'm not a fan of playing the what if game.
A bit hypocritical.
I really don't care. I just think it's funny, coming from you...
People don't necessarily want to see more interceptions. We are just willing to accept them if it means more yards, TDs and overall productivity that lead to more wins.
Up until this point, Tyrod has been a low risk low reward QB and while the ability to protect the ball is vital, so is the ability to throw TDs. I want to see him be more aggressive. The interceptions I can live with if his aggression also lead to more TDs and ultimately more wins.
And less than 10 pages later you do this.
Just entertaining...
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Except I'm not playing the what if game.
Sure sounds like "what if he has more interceptions, but he also..."
But okay...
Sure, I can agree, if more interceptions come in the process of significantly more production from him and more wins, I think we'd all embrace it. But there are people who talk about him needing to throw more interceptions because it would somehow indicate his mindset has changed and he's a better QB.
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I dont think it is gonna happen every game because it isnt all on the qb to do this
It would be nice if there were more of them then their currently is.
It absolutely won't happen every game.
My issue is that these individual criteria are just arbitrary.
I've already pointed out how Rodgers is 2-39 in his entire career in 4th quarter comebacks vs. winning teams in the NFL. Yet, by that criteria you've set forth, Rodgers isn't good enough.
I know that's not what you actually think. Of course we all know Rodgers is the better QB. But QB is such an intricate and complex position that when you get one thing fixed it seems another issue pops up.
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People don't necessarily want to see more interceptions. We are just willing to accept them if it means more yards, TDs and overall productivity that lead to more wins.
Up until this point, Tyrod has been a low risk low reward QB and while the ability to protect the ball is vital, so is the ability to throw TDs. I want to see him be more aggressive. The interceptions I can live with if his aggression also lead to more TDs and ultimately more wins.
Didn't you just recently say you don't like playing the "if" game?
I'd say more interceptions being part of an equation that leads to more wins is an awfully big "if."
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If he consistently comes up clutch at the end of games and the team wins, most everyone will (and should) be fine with him.
I don't think he's that kind of qb, but I'd be happy to be wrong about that.
Define "consistently"...
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Excellent question. Here's another one: Would you still want those those additional 40 or so yards/game passing if it also meant that Tyrod would throw as many additional interceptions as those quarterbacks throw?
I would not want this.
I actually think it's weirdly interesting the way some people are almost begging for more interceptions...
I looked some up for 2016
Russell Wilson 279.9 YPG (1), 1.375 TD/G (6)
Derek Carr 267.1 YPG (2), 1.867 TD/G (1)
Sam Bradford 262 YPG (5), 1.333 TD/G (7)
Jameis Winston 265.9 YPG (4), 1.813 TD/G (2)
Eli Manning 251.1 YPG (6), 1.625 TD/G (T3)
Blake Bortles 266.5 YPG (3), 1.625 TD/G (T3)
Trevor Siemian 247 YPG (7), 1.286 TD/G (8)
Tyrod Taylor 240.2 YPG (8), 1.533 TD/G (5)
And for 2015...
Tyrod Taylor: 257.4 YPG, 1.714 TD/G
Again, get back up to 2015 production or (ideally) improve upon it.
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That is 250 ypg and 1.875 TD passes per game.
That's what I'd love to see. 50 more yards per game and at minimum 2 TD passes is all I ask
250 - 265 club #'s 12 - 19
Russell Wilson, 264
Derek Carr, 262
Sam Bradford, 258
Jameis Winston, 256
Eli Manning, 252
Blake Bortles, 244
Trevor Siemian, 243
# 27
Tyrod Taylor, 202
As I've already said, if Taylor's production resembles 2016 or is worse, he's likely gone relatively quickly.
But I'd say 2015 is the benchmark for him to meet or exceed, and that 4,000 yards and 30 TDs would be 33 passing yards more per game and less than half a TD more per game than those 14 games. I'd say in the passing game that's the most I would reasonably hope for from him in the passing game.
But what he adds on the ground on top of that would be extra saucy gravy to also consider...
I don't disagree with this, and I haven't looked up anyone else you listed, but I do think it's important to remember that Tyrod contributes ~40 yards per game on the ground. In his 2 years here he is averaging 248.6 yards and 1.62 TDs per game, which is pretty close to your initial numbers. I guess my question is are you expecting those passing number in addition to his current running numbers? Or do you just want to see his rushing stats essentially converted to passing stats?
Some people really don't care about what he contributes on the ground. It's a non-factor the way they talk about it.
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I have added other comments here I believe. But the three of you guys all exhibit the same kind of behavior, then claim it's only the other guy.
TT is the starting QB this coming year. We'll see how he does under a new OC and new system.case closed.
I am skeptical about TT, but it only benefits the team if he emerges as a strong franchise qb. I hope it works out.
Either way, play on the field, not message board opinion, will determine what happens.
Here's the thing, the case won't be closed because, for some, it's pretty clear that there's a pretty well defined and rigidly set type of QB we absolutely need in order to be successful.
Taylor's never going to be a QB throwing for 5000 yards and 40 TDs. It's not the type of QB he is. I suspect that in terms of production, you're not going to see Taylor do significantly more than he did in 2015.
Do I think he can throw for 4,000 yards in a season and 30 TDs?
In the right circumstances and system, sure.
The question is, would that be enough to satisfy you?
For some, I think the answer is pretty clearly no.
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You specifically said at one point back on BBMB you wanted TT to fail so you could disparage everyone who likes the guy. I'm paraphrasing but you did exactly that, so you can spare everyone the choir boy routine. You, transplant, jm2009 are all acting like three year olds. You did so back on BBMB and you're all just continuing it here.
I just want to talk Taylor in this thread, and I thought the discussion was done except Foxx decided to randomly bump it.
As always, I'll be respectful and limit discussion to that unless someone like Crusher directly insults me.
Indy, why come into a discussion you haven't been in just to try and regulate? I guess your new name fits
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Dak = Dez
Tyrod Taylor = the best running game in the league, including LeSean McCoy, Mike Gillislee and an offensive line that was sensational at run blocking. All that helps a QB an absolute ton. Oh, and Charles Clay who was open constantly.
Wow...
So... who was the next best rushing team in the NFL?
Which team had the Elite OL?
Which team has a future HOFer at TE?
Thurm... you've turned into a real hater... have been for awhile, actually.
Your feigned objectivity isn't fooling anyone.
QB comparative data for Tyrod from Cian Fahey to discuss
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by transplantbillsfan
8 out of his 10 TD passes under pressure were from the pocket. Even if that ends up a little high, it's a pretty good indication of what he did under pressure in 2016.
Really not a good look...