transplantbillsfan
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Posts posted by transplantbillsfan
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And the fact that they have been playing in the worst division in NFL history since Luck came into the league. And the fact that Luck was out of college eligibility that year, unlike Darnold, and had no choice but to go there.
Exactly.
The Colts had the Perfect Storm.
I can't believe people point to that situation like it was really even a decision the Colts really had to mull over. Or as though it's a situation that is often available.
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I don't know, but the Colts have made the playoffs 3 of the 4 years that Luck has been healthy and gone as far as the championship game. Typically it takes a team like NE to beat them in the playoffs- so I would say they have been fairly successful. I would take that in a heart beat and if you eliminate Brady - they probably have at least 1 SB trip. Of course if you eliminated Brady - the Bills probably make the playoffs at least once in the last 17 years.
They also fell into the situation and did not try to suck for Luck, but an injury to Manning made it possible.
I am not a fan of tanking, but I also think that if you are not going to be good enough to win - a la the NYJs this year - you are better off looking at ways to eliminate your bad contracts and get your team situated for the future rather than just doing the same thing over and over.
You point to the Colts, but they're an incredibly unique example.
They could sell tanking easily to their fan base because they were in a win win scenario with a one year window of your amazing HOF QB being sidelined for a year and the "best NFL prospect since Elway" set up to come out in the draft.
The fan base wouldn't have lost any way you looked at it.
People who point to the Colts as an argument for tanking ignore the unique reality of that situation.
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There is a couple million more in guarantees in the Glennon deal but they are more frontloaded. It is actually cheaper for the Bears to get out of the Glennon deal after 1 year than it is for the Bills to get put of the Tyrod deal.
Those deals are both right at market value for bridge Quarterbacks. It is absolutely obvious to me when interpreting the numbers that the league value on Tyrod is exactly that. Bridge quarterback. Once he realised that it was better to be the bridge here than in Chicago or Cleveland or anywhere else.
We are not getting him cheap. We are getting him bang smack at market value.
No, unless you're definition of market value is different than what it actually is, we're getting him cheap.
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Who cares?
They're all idiots.
I don't know how it was over here, but it just got sickening the way some posters over at BBMB were vomiting out these "reports" from "experts" and "insiders" like LaCanfora as though they were actually arguments against anyone who said Taylor would be back.
In the end,
Media and "insiders" lose.
Logic wins.
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Look - you Crusher and JM can all go round and round - it certainly happened enough everywhere else.
You both have thoughts that are partially proven, but TT did say specifically when one of the reporters asked and TT had him repeat the question - he started to talk about "informal" discussions and then dropped that line and said I know what you are doing. To me that implied exactly what Crusher said about his agent had some discussions with other teams - be it tampering or not - he got a feeling for his market value.
Point two in that was he specifically stated his decision to restructure was made 2 days ago - so although he had been meeting and talking with the coaching staff - something clicked 2 days ago that made him realize a restructure here was better than the open market. I think that had to do with two thing: money and team.
I think he realized from his "informal" discussions that his value was less than he thought and he realized his best fit and chance to start was in Buffalo - so they blinked and he restructured to a significant pay decrease that pays him comparable to his passing position in the league.
I think TT has a chance in this offense to put up some better numbers than in the previous offense, but I still think he is very limited in what he can do. This played out about as perfectly as it could for the Bills - they eliminated the signing bonus money that was causing the dead cap space - which was what many people disliked about the old contract and have created a year to year deal allowing his play to determine his length of time as the Bills starting QB rather than the money.
All of this is reasonable.
But again, my issue wasn't with Crusher's interpretation, it's that he believed what he had was a fact, not an interpretation. Just like what you have here, which is an interpretation, not fact. Just like what I have, which is an interpretation. I feel strongly about mine because of what he actually said, which makes no direct reference whatsoever to finding out his market value was less, and the reference you guys believe he makes to that could very well not be a money issue and could simply be a team issue.
Maybe he found out he'd get a great deal of money on the open market (and the only concrete evidence I have for this is the fact that Mike Glennon is getting more guaranteed money than Taylor, which I think most reasonable people would find ridiculous), but only if he went to the Browns, Jets, or Bears, but he looked at those teams and didn't want to play for any of them, for whatever reason. And upon thinking of those potential changes, he realized what most people naturally realize: change sucks.
That's just my interpretation. It's not fact.
But I'm fine with your interpretation, even if I disagree, just like I'm fine with Crusher's.
Just don't pretend like something you can't even possibly know is fact.
This is an argument grounded in a pretty ridiculous notion, though.
It just really doesn't matter. Because the big question heading into the offseason was whether a new HC would want to have "his guy" at QB, and so many thought it was inevitable that Taylor was gone because of that and because of the fact that upon going through the evaluation process, McDermott would inevitably realize that "he just isn't good enough."
That's about as close to factually incorrect as we can get without actually calling it a fact.
Who cares about the reason we got him "on the cheap?" I'm loving that we did.
There's a reason why he said "I'm not taking less guaranteed money" and then took a lot less guaranteed money.
Did he say that?
I think this is largely accurate. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Tyrod realized his only chance to make more money was to go to Cleveland and that would basically end his career. I originally thought he had a good shot with the Bears, but I forgot their management is clueless and wants to make Glennon the next Osweiler-sized mistake, so good luck to them. So when weighing all the options, coming back to Buffalo where he is familiar with the players made the most sense.
I believe the downside for the Bills is that if Tyrod ends up performing well, we will no longer have him on the cheap in a couple years. So Tyrod is betting on himself again IMO. There is truth to both narratives.
Exactly... maybe the dumpster fires that are the Browns and Jets were the only teams that were going to give him significant money.
Some people are talking as though pro sports players will just automatically go where the most money is. I think that's an incredibly cynical (and incorrect) point of view.
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If money was the contributing factor the Pegula's would not have handed out the most signing bonus money of any NFL team in their first year....after paying billions for the team itself.
Good point
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I have no doubt that most of what he said was genuine. I believe he's a team guy, and I'm sure there's things he likes about the OC and the team.
On the other hand...if you don't think that the Bills weren't ready to move on if Taylor didn't take a reduction in pay, and if you didn't think money was a factor for Taylor, then that's quite the leap.
Money is a main factor in nearly every athlete's thought process, and guys who are in their prime and haven't gotten that big payday are even less likely to pass up a significant amount of money. The timing even leads you to believe that Taylor held off on this until his agent got to discuss what other teams were willing to pay during the combine where these things get talked about, and that he didn't get quite the interest he anticipated, so he decided to stick with what he already has here.
I just find the story that he just decided to be the ultimate team guy and pass up tens of millions guaranteed in order to stay in Buffalo a less believable and less logical conclusion to arrive at.
It does make for a real cute story, though.
Let's just agree to disagree. We're talking around each other about something neither of us could possibly know about: Motive
In the end, Taylor wouldn't still be the Buffalo Bills starter if the new coaching staff didn't have confidence they can make the playoffs and be a contender in 2017 after thoroughly evaluating upon arrival.
That's what matters.
Teams think about money, obviously. So either you or I could be right; there's good evidence both ways.
But NFL franchises and owners (good ones at least... and I think we're all assuming the Pegulas fall into this category) think about winning first
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So Tyrod "told (his) agent to find a way to make things work here,"
says
there were other teams showing interest, but that he "chose" to restructure his contract
says
"My commitment is to this team, to this community, to get a winning product on the field."
Raves about the "very player friendly system" Dennison runs talking specifically about success McCoy and Watkins can have in it
says
"The main thing throughout the process was that me and Coach McDermott were able to keep an open line of communication," said Taylor. "If I needed to talk to him about something I could call him. Things were difficult sometimes with trying to move money around and trying to find what was best for the team. But ultimately we were able to get it done and I'm happy that we got it done."
and even Vic Carucci tweets that Tyrod "chose to restructure" to help the Bills add pieces
Yet, we are required to assume that it's more logical that he was focused primarily on money rather than his competitive nature to finish what he started and build a playoff contender with a group of players and a city he really seems to love?
Taylor is now guaranteed less money than Mike Glennon, so by the logic of some here, teams were telling his agent they thought less of Taylor than Glennon...
Yeah, okay...
I think there's something to the actual words coming out of Taylor's mouth. All that speculation posters are doing to console themselves is entertaining, though, so keep going...
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It's much more than a guess.
Taylor and his agent pressured the Bills last offseason for that awful deal that just had to re-do if he was to stay on the team. I believe his agent said there are 31 other teams that value Tyrod if the Bills don't. It was clearly about the money then, but now he's just taking a lot less because he loves the organization that benched him which he was clearly not happy about.
It's called using common sense to draw a logical conclusion.
You're assumption that you made yesterday when this news broke requires some steep jumps beyond logic and reasoning. You were also fairly adamant that he didn't sacrifice any money also.
Pathetic?
Lol
Dude, you're just bending reality at this point because you were so utterly wrong.
It sucks being wrong. I get it. But own it when you are.
Just man up and stop trying to act like you've been right all along because clearly you haven't.
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He only is because he took a steep cut in pay.
Despite many saying otherwise.
You are celebrating Tyrod staying. Will you still celebrate you're beloved QB when the team goes 6-10 and he still isn't playing beyond the low level that he produced at last season?
I don't hate that he's back now that he's getting a lot less, but now he and the coaching staff have a lot of pressure on a team with major holes across the board.
I'm not so sure this was the right strategy to employ with this new staff. I don't think McDermott realizes just how quickly the fans will turn on him if he he doesn't deliver.
Dude.
You're being sad now... do you not see that?
This is just kinda pathetic.
Move beyond the money thing that is pure speculation at this point. You have absolutely no clue how the process played out and you're talking as though you knew it absolutely. You're speculating about something you don't know and insinuating that you're right and we're all wrong because your speculation (stated as fact) is true.
We know only one thing: Posters like you said time and time and time and time again that Buffalo somehow "finally see the light" and would move on from Taylor.
No matter how this whole process played out, we can say that assumption was absolutely, 100%, concretely false.
Everything else regarding how much he could have gotten elsewhere or why he took less money is you guessing, along with the rest of us.
You aren't right just because of a guess.
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Bottom line is he is only here because he took a massive paycut to his guaranteed money.
Taylor will say all the right things like all players do, but it's naive to think Taylor chose to stay here for significantly less than what he could have made in the open market.
Lots of posters swore Taylor would not budge on his deal and that he could do just as well or better elsewhere. Others like me said teams may wise up after seeing Osweiler's deal blow up in Houston's face.
As it turns out...I have seem to have faired better in my prediction.
That's not the bottom line.
That's what you think is the bottom line.
We'll never know because we never reached the March 11th deadline and the only people we'll have to trust are media guys who were mostly saying the Bills were 100% moving on from him, so if you think they're credible sources and you can trust them, go ahead.
And who cares?
You're still trying to be right. And why?
Buffalo thinks they can "win now" with Tyrod Taylor as QB.
I said all along that I wanted the Bills to try to get Taylor for cheaper and that Taylor might be open to it since he publicly said so at the end of the season. They did, and I love it.
But one thing you and many others were very, very wrong about was the inevitability of Tyrod being gone once a new coaching staff came in because they would want "their guy."
The new coaching staff came in. They evaluated the team.
They like Tyrod Taylor as the starting QB.
I'm glad it's on a reduced contract now because maybe we can beef up one of the league's worst WR corps, but the very action of keeping Taylor rather than letting him go is very telling.
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I don't think there was any commitment on the Bills part. If there was they would have just picked up the remainder of the original contract.
To me this was plan B or C or D.
Yup, the only place he was guaranteed to start was Buffalo. Him and his agent quickly found that out a couple days ago.
Wow... whole lotta speculation here stated as fact.
But you're really wrong on your first sentence. The Bills, regardless of their committment to Taylor, had no need to pick up the remainder of his contract until March 11th. And with Taylor coming out and publicly stating that he would be willing to rework his deal (which he might regret now, depending on the reason he took less money), it would have been fiscally irresponsible for Buffalo to not try to get him to rework his deal.
And if your argument becomes, "well, picking up the option early demonstrates a committment to the QB and helps his psyche," well that's a pretty flimsy argument.
Fair enough but still a far cry from the other half dozen or more good teams that were supposed to be fighting for his services like a lot of others around here were saying.
Remember when everyone was saying Tyrod was going to break the bank as a FA! Nope, didn't happen and was never going to happen. Loud obnoxious ignorant argumentative know nothings are really annoying.
Isn't that exactly what you're being here?
You have absolutely no clue what was going to happen in Free Agency because it didn't happen.
In the end, the argument that it all boiled down to this offseason was whether Tyrod Taylor would be the Bills QB in 2017.
He is. Despite a whole lotta loud obnoxious ignorant argumentative know nothings who said otherwise.
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Cap hit isn't getting kicked down the road. Tyrod took a massive pay cut.
He was due $27.5M in year 1 and $40.5M over 2 yrs under the old deal
He is now due $14.5M in year 1 and $30M over 2 years. He basically took a $13M paycut this year.
This was a massive win for the Bills, and seems to indicate there wasn't much of a market for Tyrod outside of Buffalo.......you don't take that type of paycut unless there's no where else to turn. I always thought reports of other teams ready to make a run at Tyrod were being overblown.
I never hated Tyrod, but I did hate his old deal. It had way too much cash for a middling QB. His new deal is much more in line with his value, so I'm okay with it. Still don't like the player, but I do like the value of the contract now.
I think it's weird the way some folks are trying to comfort themselves here.
#1: It's clear that our new Head Coach views our much-maligned QB as a QB he can "win-now" with
#2: Tyrod Taylor is familiar with and has only started for one NFL team: the Buffalo Bills
#3: While the Bills have a new HC, the new OC runs a system Taylor is very familiar with and is tailored (hah) to his strengths
#4: As far as we know so far, most of the personnel on offense outside of the WR corps will be the same
#5: Agents negotiating with or talking to other NFL teams is not allowed by NFL rules and is considered tampering
#6: We can't read Tyrod Taylor's mind
Now, I really don't care what happened.
If tampering did occur and Taylor found out there's less out in the open market than in Buffalo and so he decided to stay: wonderful!
If Taylor just decided to take a lot less money (still waiting on all those contract details... ?) to stay with Buffalo for whatever reason (familiarity with city and fans, familiarity with offensive personnel, familiarity with OC and offensive system, competitive desire to "finish what he started" and bring a winner to a city that hasn't won in so long, any combination of those, etc.): fantastic!
We don't know. Taylor evidently has a PC today, so maybe he sheds some light on some of this. But for me at least, the moment Taylor said at the end of the regular season in locker clean out day (I think) that he would consider reworking his contract (I'm paraphrasing), this was going to be a big game of chicken up until the March 11th deadline. It would have been irresponsible for Whaley and Overdorf and Co. having heard that statement publicly from Taylor, to not try to rework his deal. But I thought it was inevitable that someone would flinch and that Taylor would be back.
So, what did we see over the last few months? Lots and lots and lots of the media and "experts" saying pretty much that it was inevitable that he would be gone. Seems to me like a great way to test Taylor to see how steadfast he is on the money and/or how much he wants to be back. For me, Taylor just flinched first and lost the game of chicken. Personally, I think the Bills were prepared to exercise his option by this weekend if he didn't, but obviously that's just speculation... we'll never know. Or, maybe he just truly is a team guy and saw the Cap trouble the team was in and wanted to help. And sure, it's possible that feelers went out and he saw less money on the open market.
Who knows?
Who cares?
Tyrod Taylor is still the Buffalo Bills starting QB, despite so many saying he would inevitably be gone.
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Exactly. Oh wait...
Ah f it, color me unsurprised. Still unable to think critically. Shame.
Oh come on dude... it's the chicken or the egg argument at this point.
The Bills running game over the last 2 years was the best in the NFL. In 2016 the Bills had the opportunity going into week 17 to be one of only 2 teams in NFL history to average 5.5 YPC or better. The running game was an incredible strength and we had a defensive minded head coach who had come out publicly time and time again professing a "ground and pound" mentality and you're talking about it as though the Bills were forced to run the ball because they couldn't pass it.
Maybe they ran it because they were really freaking good at running it and a defensive minded head coach LOVES running the football.
And I don't expect that to change.
Yeah, there were times our passing game was a detriment, like the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals games. But then there were other times where our passing game was more than good enough, but the D just couldn't hold up at all, like in the first Jets game, the Seahawks, the Raiders, and the 2nd Phins game... even the 1st one, to a lesser extent.
Your assumption that we ran because we couldn't pass is just that: an assumption.
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The Colts are 25-0 when they give up less than 20 points under Luck, but he's played 60 games. If he couldn't win games when teams put up points...he'd be well below 500, and the Colts would have never made the playoffs.
The QB needs to do more...especially in the air late in games and in crucial moments.
Actually, Luck has a losing record just like Taylor when the opponent scores 20 or more points.
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So when your posting of hate against the starting QB gets discredited in here, you won't go back and respond? good to know.
Because it's not relevant.
I have chosen a different approach here to show respect for this board. You have chosen to keep doing what you did over there.
I'll discuss what I say here, over here.
Anything else I'll leave to posters like you.
Will you 2 behave yourselves and just find a way to either ignore each other or actually get along?
Jm, stop clinging to the past.
Crusher, just admit you're wrong when you are.
Move on... new board. I'm feeling like the guy who was invited to the party by someone I had one cool conversation with and my outspoken drunk friend who I brought along is getting close to knocking over the nice antique vase on the table.
Be nice... feel the love... let's hug it out...
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I've certainly never held his receivers against him. But injuries happen.
And let's be honest...they attempted the fewest passes because they sucked at it. The running game was great, the passing offense was abysmal. Just reality dood.
Injuries don't just happen... not like they did with our WR corps.
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Rush defense was way below average by YPG, pass defense was above average by YPG.
I'm guessing you'd object to a similar breakdown of the offensive production...
How often do teams have massive success in both?
Isn't the reason our pass defense was above average largely because teams like Pittsburgh and Miami didn't need to throw the football?
And offensively, our run game was far and away the best in the NFL.
I don't think it's wrong to make a "cause and effect" argument, I just don't know if you're making the correct one...
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if Jeremy White is hearing correctly, his gtd money was cut in half.
Didn't Jeremy White only talk about 2017?
What about 2018?
It sounds like all his money for 2018 is pretty much guaranteed. How much is it?
So, basically, as the contract was before this restructure (according to Spotrac), Taylor would have been fully guaranteed just under $31 million if the Bills exercised his 2017 option. If Taylor is now guaranteed $15.5M in 2017, how much of his 2018 contract is fully guaranteed? If it's the same amount as his 2017 contract, this is pretty much the same contract in terms of guaranteed money for Taylor.
Gotta wait for all the details to come out, but the contract details for 2018 are what matter at this point in terms of discussing whether this is a true pay cut. I'm curious myself.
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This is pure speculation.
It's actually quite foolish IMO to think that he would pass up money like that for what he just signed for.
It's much more likely that Taylor and his agent went looking for teams to see what they were willing to pay, and after they saw that it wasn't much better, they went back and took the Bills offer.
Many of the so called experts on the other board said Taylor would never take less because he could make as much or more because that's the market now.
Turns out they were wrong. Taylor is now in line with his play...bottom starter pay for a bottom of the league QB.
You accuse some of pure speculation and follow it up with pure speculation yourself?
Crusher, just admit you were really, really wrong.
You were.
And as to the money thing, you should hold off on gloating about that, too, because it seems as though Taylor may not actually be taking less money.
Practice some restraint in our new digs, dude. Just wait until you know before you say something you don't have a clue about.
I say all this with love
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My only problem is that it puts pressure on this staff to win now. People may sour on McDermott and Taylor very early this season, and nothing I have seen from Taylor makes me think we will do any better next season. The defense is still going to have major holes, and we still won't have money to upgrade much of this roster that needs it.
This is a win since Taylor ended up taking less money, I'll agree with that. I don't know how it helps otherwise.
Did Taylor end up taking less guaranteed money?
A lot of people are talking as though this restructuring just involved converting salary to a signing bonus... I don't know if Taylor's actually getting less...
it'll be nice when those details actually come out, though.
I won't be surprised, either way.
Just glad the inevitable actually happened and we can move on to actual future football discussion rather than speculation about what might happen or discussion about whether Taylor should or should not be our QB in 2017. He is and it seems clear that McDermott and Dennison like him and feel they can win with him.
I just still think it's funny that there were so many people who were so confident he wouldn't be our QB moving forward...
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Here's a better stat, and Ill quote myself again:
Since 2015, the Chiefs are 15 - 1 in games where they score 25 points or more.
Since 2015, the Bills are 9 - 8 in games where they score 25 points or more.
Fix the defense. Make the playoffs.
Andrew Luck is 25-0 over his career when the Colts have held the opponents under 20 points.
Taylor only has 1 loss when his defense holds opponents under 20.
Our D needs to improve.
well, Tyrod proved to be the upstanding young man i always thought he was. regardless of reports that he wasn't open to taking a penny less, he did so for at least this year, for the benefit of the team. i still am curious what the commitment to him is for the two year period. being that, right now we have ample cap room for '18, i'm thinking he has a larger deadcap hit than he originally had for '18. i hope the actual details come out soon.
that being said, i am still not sold on him as a passing QB. he still has too many deficiencies that he had back in college that haven't been rectified in the 7 years since he left. i am not very confident that he will ever overcome them. especially in a WCO where he will need to throw over the middle and anticipate where the receiver will be before he gets there. hopefully a better coaching staff, in particular Dennison, will be able to manage him to maximize the play.
I'm still confused about this.
Did Taylor take less money or not? From what some people in this thread are saying it sounds like he's going to get the same amount of money, but a bunch of his salary from this year is being converted to a bonus...
I'm lost on NFL contracts.
Can someone, when they find out, simply post the money Taylor is guaranteed with this new contract?
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Or him and his agent took feelers for his value and it wasn't what they thought, so they took what they thought was the best they were going to do.
It's funny how many were so sure Taylor would make as much if not more on the open market, but he let the Bills leave him twisting in the wind while deciding his fate on a lesser deal. That tells me he wasn't as in demand as many thought (including you). He wouldn't have passed up his 40 million guaranteed over the next two years for this if he thought he could do close to or better than that...you're in denial if you believe otherwise.
I said I would be fine with Taylor on a bridge deal that paid him around 10 mil for two seasons, and now he's right in line with that, so at least he's being paid accordingly now...near the bottom for starting QB'S, which he is.
I'm a bit better with this outcome because there is no way he was worth what he was due under his other deal, but I still believe this puts Taylor and the new coaching staff in the cross hairs right away. Things could go south really fast, but this is what they decided to go with, so time to hope for the best.
Wow... you're still clinging on trying to be right in some way?
Honestly, you're really reaching at this point...
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Nothing happened to the option bonus--it's still there.
So Taylor's getting all the same money he was getting before? No pay cut?
Oh man... Thurman#1 is going to be really unhappy that something he thought couldn't possibly happen did...
Tyrod's new restructured contract - the details
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I'm sorry but could you direct me to your breakdown?
Finding these things on an iPhone is a pain.
I'll be really curious to see the various QBs and contracts you qualify as "Bridge QB/Contract."