transplantbillsfan
-
Posts
10,440 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Gallery
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by transplantbillsfan
-
-
Because you once touted passing stats on 3rd down situations claiming TT had very good stats.
If the Bills run most of the time what value is propping up passing stats?
Except that the Bills passed in 3rd down situations more than they ran in 3rd down situations.
118 passing attempts
92 rushing attempts
Were you just assuming the Bills ran more than they passed on 3rd down without looking it up?
-
John IMO it is not. Some people actually think TT is a top tier QB. Not many, but they exist.
They match the number in the group that says TT is not an NFL starting QB.
its an observation I could be mistaken.
----
Oh and if you claim to be in the CoT..... You are on the edge of that group.
You're claiming people are arguing that Taylor is a top tier QB and that's what has this thread 80 pages long.
You obviously have some posts and posters in mind, so please, direct us to those posts and those posters.
It's an observation you're absolutely mistaken in... in fact, I'd argue that the people who have this thread continuing are posters like Ryan and Jeff and Crusher and xRushx(see, I can name them) who have really been claiming that Taylor is horrible and a backup QB.
And what a weak and crappy statement there at the end. None of us have claimed to be in the CoT, we've been put there by stupid posters who constantly use that term like juveniles in middle school who are searching for nerds in the hallway to point at and make fun of.
The most biased and blinded people in this monster of a thread are you anti-TT folks.
-
Nobody.
Nobody believes that. All of us in the "cot" (has there ever been a dumber term for fans - the guy who invented it is on an involuntary vacation...) have stated repeatedly we believe him to be about the 20th best QB.
Jfh is probably the biggest homer on the board (never change buddy love you for it) and he is supportive of the idea of drafting a QB
Transplant is a TT supporter and you just quotes a post where he says 16-21.
I'm one of the biggest TT guys (wait and see on him) and I have him pegged about 20 and have also said I would be okay with a QB in the draft.
The problem is the anti-TT people can't accept that others haven't written him off yet. You guys have made up your mind that he sucks. We haven't. We also haven't said he is a top 10 qb. I'm not even sure I've seen someone say he is top 15. However being the 20th best QB in the league says he should probably be a starter somewhere. He also has only PLAYED 2 seasons. So some of us are hoping he will progress as a qb, some of us aren't sure if he will but want to see, some of us think there are bigger holes on the roster, etc...
Thanks, this is very well said. Watch out, though, Crusher might accuse you of lying by saying Taylor is a middle-of-the-road QB and of secretly thinking Taylor is an Elite QB and is bound for the HOF even though you haven't said anything resembling that
-
That's where he already was.
So TT bet on himself, then gave up and took the money, played worse, and then bet on himself again and gave up $10M?
I can understand disagreeing with what Shaw says, but at least establish you understand what he's saying.
*Hint* it has to do with freedom
I can't believe this thread is almost 80 pages and strong, but it's essentially still going because there are legitimately people who Think that Taylor is a Top Tier NFL QB.
Who?
-
Dude, professional athletes don't turn away $10 million per year just because. Come back to reality.
Can everyone stop pretending they know that money is the sole or even the primary motivator for every single professional athlete out there?
Sure, it's the biggest motivator for most of them, but not all of them...
or how about this, money is everyone's biggest motivator up until the point where it provides you with the lifestyle you desire... but once you have the lifestyle you desire, I would say that money becomes significantly less of a motivating factor.
-
I'm coming back to the following quote
How many threads did you have on specific TT stats on the BBMB?
The "over the middle" went on for ever. 3rd down passing % as well.
Kudo's 2016 3rd down %, was up from 2015's poorer 21 ranking --- (and they did it w/o Sammy
).Which makes on wonder ..... why are there so many comments about TT not having targets, meaning he didn't have his best weapon as the excuse for his down QBR?
As I and others stated (you'd call it speculation), with more passing attempts TT's numbers would drop, which they did.
Twelve less yards with 94 more passing attempts and one less game played 14 vs 15.
2016 (15 GS) 269 comp on 436 passes for 3023 yds Sammy 53.8% catch rate
2015 (14 GS) 242 comp on 380 passes for 3035 yds Sammy 62.5% catch rate
How does one improve yet not improve? Dude... you're all over the place...
Please very simply explain why the hell you said "3rd down "passing" stats when the bigger picture is total 3rd down conversions." in the context of the discussion we were having.
In other words, please explain how the team's total 3rd down conversions, which includes rushing 1st downs from the likes of Gillislee and McCoy is more important in a conversation about the play of Tyrod Taylor than Tyrod Taylor's 3rd down coversion % passing the football on 3rd down.
-
Blithe insults peppered into straw man arguments masquerading as debate, but designed to elicit an emotional response for your own gratification is, indeed, trolling.
Thank you... odd that he doesn't know that...
-
So disagreeing with your opinion is trolling. Sorry, you don't know understand a basic internet concept. Maybe someday you will get it
What do you think trolling is?
-
i'm guessing most "tyrod supporters" feel this way. i like having tyrod on the team for now, but an upgrade is needed without a doubt. some are makng this into a line in the sand type scenario.
We do... if the Bills feel there's a QB available at 10 who is an upgrade over Taylor, take him.
I don't know that there is because, frankly, I don't follow or care for college football much. And everything I hear and read is that this is a weak QB class and every single guy needs to sit on the bench at least a year. But if the Bills truly evaluate these QBs and find a guy better than Taylor, I'm 100% about them taking him.
-
I can't believe this thread is almost 80 pages and strong, but it's essentially still going because there are legitimately people who doubt that Taylor is a starting NFL QB.
That people are doubting that and calling him a backup QB is what brings out posters on the other side.
http://thebiglead.com/2017/04/11/ranking-nfl-quarterbacks-1-32-for-the-2017-season/3/
http://newarena.com/nfl/ranking-all-32-nfl-starting-quarterbacks-from-worst-to-best/
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000619129/article/qb-index-yearend-rankings
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-quarterbacks-this-season/
Maybe Taylor is an average to slightly below average starting NFL QB, but a QB who is anywhere between the 16th-21st best QB in the NFL means he's a guy who you can win with and will be under center for some NFL team.
Can we settle on that, at least?
-
Hi Thurm -
Thanks.
I think you have to look at what's guaranteed and then what's likely. Guaranteed was $40, and what's likely now is $30. Why is it likely? Because there's no upside to the Bills cutting him after 2017, because the cap hit is almost as bad as keeping him. So unless he becomes a public relations problem, the Bills will always keep him for 2018. Even if they've found another starter, he's a better backup than they could find anywhere else.
So I'm pretty sure Taylor looked at it as giving up $10 million.
However, if you review what's been said and and the contract history, I think the conclusion that these negotiations are a lot less about the money and a lot more about the option to terminate the contract. That is, it's always been about Taylor's freedom to make a new deal and who has the option to set him free.
He left Baltimore and wanted to go someplace where he could start. He didn't seem to spend any time or energy on getting a lot of money; he wanted to go somewhere where he had a good chance to start and where he would have a short contract. He signed a three year deal with Buffalo, but a major part of the deal for Tyrod was that he could opt out after two years.
So what happened? He played well his first year and the Bills were unhappy about the fact that Taylor could leave after year two. That meant that if Taylor had a good year two, the Bills would have to give him something like five years at $20 million per to keep him, and the Bills knew that they weren't going to be willing to commit that much to him after year two. They wanted to see him for at least three years.
So they go to Taylor and suggest renegotiating, so the Bills could have a full three years and then cut him without penalty if they wanted to. Taylor said no, because the option at the end of year two was what he wanted. He wasn't going to give up the option for nothing. He asked for a long-term deal with big money. Bills said no to the money, yes to the long-term IF the option to end it all without penalty at the end of year two came back to the Bills. Taylor said ok, he'll give up the option to get out because he has guaranteed money.
Year two happens and Taylor underperforms, in comparison to year one and also in terms of what's good enough to win in the NFL. Now the Bills are on the hotseat. They have the option to end the deal and avoid the guarantees, but they aren't sure about Taylor. If Taylor is the year-one QB, the contract is a bargain. If he's the year-two QB, they're overpaying and they may want to move on.
Meanwhile, Taylor doesn't have the same doubts. He's started for two years, he knows he can play in the league. His seasons are nothing like the seasons Manuel and most young QBs have in the league. He's seen guys bounce around the league. He knows for the next seven years he can get FItzpatrick-McCown money all day long. He's better than they are, and someone will always pay him to play or to be a quality backup on a contending team. That's his cushion. He knows that he's always going to be able to make the money he's guaranteed under his current contract. What he wants is to get the option back. He wants the leverage to be able to say in a year or two that he wants more money, more than he'd get locked up with the Bills through 2021 or whenever.
So I think Taylor looked at it and said, "I'm guaranteed $40. Under the two-year deal we're talking about, I'm almost certainly going to get $30. I'm almost certainly going to get the additional $10 in the next one or two years after that. So the guarantee of $40 doesn't mean a lot; I'm going to get the $40 either way. But under the new deal, my upside in 2019, 2020 and 2021 is much higher. The salary cap is going up. If I play well, I can get over $20 a year, maybe even $25 a year." I think Taylor listened to that, has confidence in his abilities and his future, and said "this is easy - I'll get the $40 either way, and the new deal gives me options."
Bills, likewise, liked the deal because THEY got the option to terminate without major pain after 2018. What the Bills gave up is the opportunity to have Taylor on the cheap if he turns out to be good.
I think what very well could happen is that in 2017 Taylor has a good year - say a passer rating around 94, which is his average. That would be at or around top 10. Bills win 9-10 games. And next February or March, Taylor and the Bills are renegotiating AGAIN. Why? Because at that point the Bills don't want to go into 2018 with Taylor playing on a one-year deal. If he has another good season, his price tag will go WAY up - as I said, in the low- to mid-20s. So they'll be talking about a new deal, 4-5-6 years, just like the last one, worth more than the deal the Bills just got away from, and with more than half of it guaranteed.
If Taylor has another mediocre season, Bills go looking for a new QB, keep Taylor for 2018 and then negotiate or let him walk.
What happened is that Taylor gave up some money to get out from under a long term deal. The Bills gave up the bargain price for a starting QB in order to get out from under the long-term future. They're both betting on what Taylor does in the next two seasons.
If Taylor didn't want to make that bet, he would have refused to renegotiate and called the Bills' bluff.
Well said...
-
Holy crap... you're seriously coming back to this?Lets revisit BBMB. Top 3 of your "statistical analysis"
Over the middle passes. which led to "The definition of the middle of the field"
3rd down "passing" stats when the bigger picture is total 3rd down conversions.
Fine, in 3rd down %, Taylor's 14th. The team is 13th.
What's your point?
-
Thurm you're just too funny the way you pick straws out that fit a small random point you're trying to make as you neglect 99% of what's being said.So only three dumpster fire teams were thinking about Tyrod? Hmmm.
Funny... sad... a bit of both, I guess...
Can't move on yet... pretty sure he's still the Bills QB...It's just how it is. There will always be people still cheering for the mediocre, can't get it done QB long after it became apparent they were not the answer. You can keep your Tyrod poster on your wall if you wish, much of the fan base has moved on.
Unless, of course, you're rooting for Taylor to fail
-
So perhaps you shouldn't lump me into that same group since that wasn't at all what I was doing. That'd be great. Thanks
I apologize, it was more part of the broader discussion and you're right, I shouldn't have lumped you in with other posters.
My bad
Aren't you someone who criticizes the media for the stuff they report? Now you're using those reports because it fits your agenda?
You have a hard time accepting that Tyrod wasn't the hot commodity you thought he would be.
Yes, I'm highly critical of the media, obviously. But the reason I asked to be directed to any "reports" is because with that it at least establishes, to some degree, a journalist/insider putting his neck on the line by saying directly that he has a "source" who told him something.
Firechan directed me to an article essentially with Rodak saying "Bills expected to..." which could be anything and doesn't imply any sources inside OBD at all.
As much as I loathe Rodak, if he had a report where he claimed to have sources who told him something, I would be less dismissive.
So this is a report but other reports are just speculation?
What makes this not speculation?
In favor of Tyrod = report
Not in favor of Tyrod = speculation
Find where I completely dismissed anything labeled as a "report."
Have you noticed that journalists and "insiders" use the word "report" sparingly relative to everything else they write? There's a reason.
There were "4" teams willing to pay TT, as per transplant. It wasn't just Cleveland.
If TT snaps his leg by some fat DT and has lingering damage, he comes out the loser of this restructure and probably his career. Which is why players who haven't already made their money generally don't leave $10M on the table.
3 teams...
Way to almost pay attention though
You and transplant are apparently in your own little worlds
As is everyone else on this message board...
-
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tyrod-taylor-7899/
That's what he's talking about, and while you can't prove absolutely and without a doubt anything much about why people do things ... that's why he's here.
Because he took a major pay cut. He might have gotten more elsewhere but he was convinced the Bills weren't going to keep him without the pay cut. And he was right.
As critical historically as you are of people who spew opinion as fact, I'm surprised you've been doing it so much lately.
Again, your educated guess is roughtly as good as my or Shaw's educated guess...
feel free to keep trying to convince yourself that stating opinions as fact will somehow validate your argument, though
They didn't negotiate Osweiler's contract. They are paying him because they got a second rounder.
Details though.
Yes... I'm sure that 2nd rounder was worth what they're paying Brock Osweiler...
Are you guys serious with this? Sure, it played a role, but not even remotely close to whatever kind of role you're insinuating...
-
Taylor was going to be released if he didn't renegotiate. FACT.
What made Taylor stay in Buffalo for less money?
Loyalty? There is very little loyalty in the NFL.
A chance to be the starter? He could have been that for 2 or 3 other teams.
Again... not a fact.
And those 3 other teams being dumpster fires could have also played a role.
-
It all makes sense dude. Rather than take more money elsewhere, TT is betting on himself, risking career ending injuries and $10M, to play with the Bills, so he can renegotiate back to the money that Cleveland would've paid him.
Do you honestly think Cleveland would have paid Taylor less than Osweiler?
-
Who is pretending that?
I think Whaley always wanted to keep Tyrod, just not at his previous price tag.
You used to argue constantly on BBMB that not only would several teams be interested in Tyrod if he were cut but he would make more money in the process. That was clearly not the case.
Plenty of people in this very thread are "pretending that."
And I just directed you to a report that at least 3 teams were interested in Taylor. We don't know what they would have paid him for sure, but I don't think it's remotely unreasonable to say that Cleveland would have been willing to fork out at least a little more money than they're going to pay Osweiler.
Sooo.... $17-$18 million per year, but in Cleveland...
Not "clearly the case" at all...
-
Well there is the whole paycut thing. I'm sure you can make a very valid argument that if not for the restructured contract, Tyrod would not be a Bill at the moment.
I think it's reasonable to argue that if Taylor didn't take a paycut he wouldn't be a Bill. There's no absolute evidence that supports this, but it's a reasonable argument to make. I think Shaw's was pretty reasonable, too.
What's less reasonable, though, is arguing that a team like the Browns would not have been willing to pay Tyrod the same amount of money at least as they're now going to be paying Brock Osweiler.
People argue over whether Taylor is worth as much as Glennon. I think that's a bad argument. But people saying that Osweiler is worth more or even nearly as much as Taylor are off their rockers...
The Bills?
link?
-
The only explanation is that Tyrod loves Buffalo sooooooooooooo much.
It's not the only explanation, obviously.
Just don't pretend that the only explanation for Tyrod being back in Buffalo is because he tucked his tail between his legs when he found he wouldn't get much money on the open market and begged Whaley & Co. to keep him at a reduced price.
That's the inevitable explanation many have on this message board for Taylor still being in Buffalo.
FC and I were talking "reports" vs. speculation a little while ago, and then he directed me to an article that was pure speculation that had an actual report built within it:
http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/02/browns-49ers-jets-known-interest-taylor/
3 NFL teams were reported on March 2nd to be seriously interested in Tyrod Taylor.
And another thing that I feel like people are just not considering, the Browns traded for Brock Osweiler and his $16 million base salary and $16 million CAP hit. They did this about a week after that report above. And they did it the day after Tyrod renegotiated his contract.
So I guess 2 questions come out of this:
1) Who honestly thinks that Tyrod Taylor is valued less than Brock Osweiler by any NFL team at this point?
and since I'm pretty sure we can all agree the answer is (or should be) "no one"
2) Based on the amount of money Cleveland is now willing to pay Brock Osweiler, why does anyone think they would have paid Taylor any less than they're going to be paying Osweiler?
People keep saying it's obvious Taylor wasn't going to get much money on the open market and I feel like they neglect the contracts of the likes of Mike Glennon and Brock Osweiler...
Who wouldn't be insanely loyal to a team that says "take a pay cut or we'll cut you"?
Who said that?
-
I fhought that was only for players who are about to be free agents?
It is.
Health aspect? They have a pretty good line.
They do?
They have Joe Thomas.
They don't have a good OL.
"Show me a report" "No I mean one I agree with!"
That wasn't a report, anyway.
-
It was reported the Bills were going to cut TT if he didn't restructure. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2697955-tyrod-taylor-takes-10-million-pay-cut-in-contract-to-remain-with-buffalo-bills
Ummm... that's not a report... that's more speculation... and from a guy who's covering his own tracks from an ESPN headline late last season entitled "Don't bet on Bills renegotiating Tyrod Taylor's deal to keep him"
Try again... I legitimately would like to see a credible report... I won't even point out the fact that Rodak is a douche...
whoops
-
Have you heard of the legal tampering period? TT had a whole day to talk to other teams. If the Browns were gonna give him $10M more than the Bills and the starting job, why would he stay?
Because it's the Browns, and the Browns have one of the least talented rosters in the NFL... which potentially means it's possible there would be a health aspect to that choice along with a competitive aspect...
-
Since you want to pursue this avenue.
Your facts are tainted by selective plays and not the whole picture.
So then please show me actual reports that teams wanted to sign Tyrod.
Selective plays and not the whole picture... ?
I'm sorry, what are the "your facts" that you're talking about?
And direct me to any reports before FA or before Taylor renegotiated that lend credence to your argument, please.
Tyrod Taylor's Highlights
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
said the blind man...
Would you rather people branch these discussions off into countless individual threads?