transplantbillsfan
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Posts posted by transplantbillsfan
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I define it as a guy who's spent 5 years with the same team and started >12 games a season over those 5 years for them. Pretty rough but I think it holds up ok.
Kind of a reactionary definition, isn't it?
So let's go through this logic: you're a bills fan as we all are and all of us are looking for a franchise QB, correct?
If that's the case, you would be content (by your definition) with Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, or Jay Cutler (if we could coerce him out of retirement) if we could acquire them and hand them the reins to the franchise for the next several years over Taylor without hesitation?
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How can you be above average, yet not the 15th best QB or higher in the NFL in a league with 32 starters?
I'll hang up and listen.
We don't know if Taylor is above average, really good, below average or what, yet.
In 2015, at worst, he was above average. I think he was really good. Really good being a top 10 to 12 QB.
In 2016, he was average to below average. I'd say he was in the 15 to 20 range, despite the fact that there are some metrics like total QBR and PFF that put him in the top 10. But the problem is that in 2016 there were a ton of variables that came into play and may have seriously affected his play. Robert Woods and Sammy Watkins missed a combined 11 games. Rex was a disaster. There was a change in OC after week two.
The list goes on.
We need to find out what he is. Personally, I don't think he's any worse than an NFL starting QB, but I don't know if he's the answer for the franchise. This year should answer that question.
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The same could be said about the QB and the Seattle or Miami game.
Except that the defenses valleys were much lower than Taylor's valleys. When you give up three different 200 yard rushing games, it's virtually inevitable you've lost three games.
The defense was abysmal and multiple games in 2016. Taylor was bad against the ravens and the Bengals.
Those three games with the 200 yard rusher's are mostly on the defense. Not entirely, but mostly. I think you could throw in there also the first Jets game where the defense allowed Ryan Fitzpatrick to pass for almost 400 yards. And then the defense blows a 15 point lead in the second half of the Raiders game allowing the Raiders offense to score and score and score and score. And while those three and outs that came on consecutive drives in the third quarter of the game didn't help, the defense literally had no excuse for not being rested on the first two Raiders touchdowns of the third-quarter. They had an entire half to rest, and then the Raiders had the ball for less than a minute before the bills offense put us ahead by 15 points.
When the defense was good, they were really good. But it's hilarious that people dismiss Taylor's victory against the patriots because of who is starting QB on the other team. I'm sorry, were the patriots missing any of their defense? If that game should be dismissed for anyone in terms of praise, it's for the defense.
The defense when it was bad, it was abysmal. Taylor wasn't. Like it or not, QBs who don't turn the ball over really aren't ever abysmal.
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Buh Bye then.It's pretty clear that despite fan's desires, the Bills are again in rebuild mode now. Lost more than they gained in FA. Drafted replacements largely. New everything, coaches, schemes, skill position players, etc. Don't have the QB yet although TT is very good. In the NFL, no QB, no playoffs, no media coverage, no interest outside of the local area; no great QB, no deep run in playoffs. So, what to do? Blind loyalty?
I called DTV with the intent of haggling my way to lower the cost for the umpteenth time. know what I did? cancelled the Ticket. The media thinks the Bills suck and cover the team as a suck team. Hard to watch that, although its hard to argue with the consensus. The best case this year is TT goes down, they go 4-12 and draft Sam Darnold, which anyone with a brain knows is the best case. Who wants to watch that happen? Not me. So I think a little break is in order, watch the highlight shows, etc., maybe travel to the Carolina game mainly to see friends. Thats about it.
How will you get through the rebuild??
Got to say, I completely disagree. Year after year after year we've had that same middle of the road record. So putting your money on it happening again is probably a decent bet simply because it's the safe one. But I have a pretty sneaky feeling that this year is going to surprise a lot of people in a good way.
Playoffs, here we come!
...too bad you'll only be watching the highlights
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He's a backup... who cares?
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Great. Another year with undersized weak armed QBs.
You aren't actually Noogie75, are you?
Step away from the ledge!!!
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Someone find Noogie75 and lock him in a rubber room! He's officially on suicide watch!
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Good you are correct. Except 4th for Cardale. K did the QBs in front of him won a championship with Cardale on the Bench? Because it was the same team. They had Elliot, Bosa, and the rest of the squad. And the rook left Tn. To play in a weaker conference because he was not gonna play with that comp. Tyrod did he win a championship with plenty of starts. Now Cardale has not been given a chance. In pre season he ripped it up. Anticipated, pocket poise, cannon of an arm, drove the length of the field with what he had. Scored with the pocket collapsing. Ha if Tyrod could ever do that. I still watch that step into throw to the middle with a dart to Powell.
Enjoy being a Chargers fan now.
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Defense was 16th in the league in points against.
As far a points go, that is dead nuts average.
The problem, ironically, is similar to the issue with Taylor. When the defense was good, they were quite good. Against the Bengals, the defense bailed out the offense the whole game. I think that's about the only time that happened all year. However, the lows of the defense were much lower than Taylor's lows. The Bills defense arguably single-handedly lost four games in 2016. When you allow 200 yard rushers, you are most certainly are not going to win. And the bills allowed and historic three of them, two of those to the same player. On top of that, for whatever you want to say about Taylor not playing well in the second half, the defense just had to be decent against the Raiders for us to win. But they weren't, they fell apart. I should probably throw the first Jets game and allowing Ryan Fitzpatrick a career game as the fifth, but the offense couldn't stay on the field despite scoring points and racking up yards.
Taylor had lows in 2016 for sure. Baltimore, the Bengals, most of the Pittsburgh game, 2nd half of the Raiders, etc. But his lows simply weren't as low as the bottom of the defensive lows.
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Same Tyrod as last year but with good defense and the Bills are an 11-win team.
Are you trying to start something?
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Sooo... how good do these things need to be for you?For me, if he is going to remain there are a few things that I need to see. Gross stats mean nothing at all to me. I care about 3rd down efficiency, RZ efficiency, TD to Int and a high yards per attempt. If those things happen the offense's will be rolling.
You realize Taylor is already 14th in 3rd down % and 6th in RZ Passer Rating, right?
I think the fact that people are so dismissive of the 2017 QB draft class is kind of funny. Weren't three QBs drafted in the first round? Didn't all three QBs have their respective teams trade up to draft them? The bills had an opportunity to draft two of those three quarterbacks. They didn't. I understand that no one wants to see that as any kind of faith and Taylor because of the draft picks they acquired for next year. But if anything, it was a team demonstrating both faith in Taylor while also hedging their bets and understanding that the NFL is a win now league and Taylor isn't proven enough to hold onto after this year if he fails.I think though with a weak QB UFA Class and a Weak QB draft the Bills where smart to essentially reboot the contract. Notice they didn't commit long term to him though either right
That doesn't mean anything other than the fact that all QBs fail at some point in their career mainly and largely if you're thinking about team success. Philip Rivers has been for years. Drew Brees. Andrew luck. Joe Flacco. Cam Newton.
But all of those guys are proven to varying degrees. Taylor hasn't built up the cache to be even just average this year and stick around. He's going to likely need a top 10-12 year to stick around.
Just watch next year turn into the same "week QB class" we had this year. Too funny
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That Taylor throws less to the middle of them other QBs in the NFL is pretty much fact. That it's his weakness in the sense that he's just not good at doing it is, on the other hand, debatable. In a lot of ways I think it was offense of design. When Taylor through to the middle especially in 2016, he excelled. I'm really looking forward to an offense that focuses more on those short crossing routes.It's on topic and it's relevant. I'm sorry if it hurt your feeling. I'm sure other COT parishioners will help you through this difficult time.
Furthermore, it's not a stab. It's pointing out that Boldin's biggest strength is our QB's biggest weakness. It's a factual statement that pertains to the topic.
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Isn't Bolidn's strength going over the middle?
Other than money, I have no idea why he'd even consider coming to Buffalo.
Well... evidently Taylor's one of the biggest reasons he's interested.
So, there's that
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Thurm, you obviously know that was a typo on my part. And that's my bad. Less than 90 seconds in the fourth quarter on that touchdown to Clay. And it should've been less than 90 seconds in the game, but racks and the defense of course just let him down.Was it really clutch in the Seattle game? It sure was a good overall game, but on that final drive on the second and six play with 1:09 left, he scrambles right and ends up running ... and misses a wide-open, and I mean nobody within ten to twelve yards. They send two guys on go routes down the middle, one on the right and one on the left and both in the middle third of the field. The guy on the right beats his man by a step or a step and a half. The one deep safety goes after him. The guy on the left, Woods, is dropped by his cover man, totally dropped seven or eight yards past the line of scrimmage and is all alone. In the deep middle third of the field.
Tyrod runs the ball for a four yard gain and Tyrod has nobody near him as he approaches the line of scrimmage near the numbers, but just misses Woods.
Did he play well that game? Yup. And you're right that that 3rd and 20 throw to Woods on the sideline was flat-out terrific. But he wasn't clutch. Had the chance to take the lead with a minute left and couldn't do it. Oh, and where was Woods again on the play when he was wide-open in the end zone? Oh yeah, the deep middle third of the field.
As for the 50 yard bomb to Clay against New England, it wasn't as good a throw as you're making it out to be. Clay was wide open with one guy six yards behind him and a safety seven or eight yards inside him and Tyrod threw the ball so as to stop Clay from running away from the safety. Clay had to flatten out his angle and it allowed the safety to get back in the play and bump Clay's legs just as Clay went for the ball which prevented him from getting his second arm around on the ball. If he'd made that catch it would have been sensational and Tyrod could have put it in a place where he wouldn't have had to make a terrific catch. It certainly wasn't a bad throw but it wasn't great by any means. Could've led him to open territory.
You point to drops? Can't be bothered to look at them, though calling the Clay play you noted above a drop was very debatable, but every QB deals with drops. It's part of the game. You can point to lots of very nice catches too, the Woods catch on the sideline that you reference above. That was a terrific catch. Sure there were some drops but you could point to any QB and cherrypick some plays where the same thing happened. It's part of the game.
You say, "He threw a touchdown pass on fourth down to Clay to go ahead against Miami with less than 90 seconds in the last game he played. Again, pretty damn clutch."
Hunh? The Bills last possession in that game ended with 4:09 left in the game. With a punt. And if you were talking about the first Miami game, he went, what, 4/13 in the 4th quarter? He was getting a lot of pressure, and he absolutely did have that final drive to at least make it closer but they had three or four drives in that 4th quarter that went nowhere. Clutch is overstating it.
Tyrod certainly shouldn't be blamed for all of Buffalo's problems last year. The whole team was bad except for the run game. But Tyrod deserves his share of the blame.
I'm sorry, you're just wrong about that Clay pass against New England. It would have been a great catch. But it's an NFL catch. And it was an even better throw. Clay just couldn't track the football. I've watch that played many many times at this point. I have still images on my computer of that play with the ball hitting him and his finger. But Clay just couldn't track the ball and get his hands in the right place.
And you're right, all QBs have their players drop footballs. And there are websites that track drops. The problem is, those 13 or 14 or whatever they are drops don't match up with what I think most of us sauce should have been caught passes. Maybe somewhere labeled as passes defense. Maybe some more just labeled as in completions. But most of those charts use the NFL official game log in order to chart of them. But I know from having gone through those things many many times, they aren't always very accurate.
Cian Fahey watched every single snap and pass and tracked all of them and generated a number of really interesting stats based on watching all of the quarterbacks in the NFL, not just one of them. And yes, his eyes are subjectivize. But at least they are subjectivize that watched every single quarterback, not just one. That's been your major flaw in more than one of your arguments about Taylor. You need to compare, not just watch Taylor and come up with your own arbitrary a valuation based on whatever your own expectations are. Anyway, regarding those "drops" what he found was that Taylor's receivers had the fourth highest "failed reception" percentage among all quarterbacks in the NFL. And they had the 20th highest "created reception" percentage in the NFL. You want to dismiss his findings, that's fine. Go come up with your own numbers. Watch all the plays for all the quarterbacks and to get back to me with what you find. I'll trust your integrity. This isn't me saying that we should trust the findings of one guy completely. But I'll tell you this, without even looking at those findings from Fahey, it sure seemed like Taylor's receivers were not doing him any favors in 2016.
Just drop this middle third Crusade already. It's ridiculous. And I'm not the only one here who's responded to you with that sentiment. Still haven't found a single reference to the middle third of the field made by a coach or NFL GM or executive or probably even an NFL player, have you? Yeah, that's because NFL coaches and players don't divide the field up and thirds The way random arrogant message board guy does. I give you actual evidence of the field being divided in the fifths and you just yuck it up. That's to be expected from you since you just like to ignore reality. But whatever, you'll ignore or go off on a tangent or do something rather than just admit that you're wrong since you're incapable of doing that.
I endorse this post.Clearly OBD agrees he doesn't do these things enough as well considering his current contract. This is very much a prove it year for Tyrod. And you could look at almost every QB in the league, scrubs included, and find instances where they have performed well in those situations. The key is consistency which even you can agree hasn't been Tyrod's strength.
You're still being silly.No, it was just a silly comparison. Rivers and Brees are the CEOs of their teams and have to carry them every game. Tyrod's just to get the ball to McCoy, make some throws, & don't turn the ball over. Not comparable at all.
But whatever I grow tired of people who quibble with even bringing a quarterback's name into the same sentence as another quarterback. What a cliché and a bit of a weak out to a discussion.
Brees and Rivers are clearly better quarterbacks than Taylor. and you're being silly for even implying that I am saying Taylor is as good as they are. It's silliness at its sloppiest.
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I think you are dreaming on the stats. Refs are part of the game. And why did he throw a critical pick in the Pitt game. Why was RW was mad at him? Sammy " our passing game needs to get better. At least Sammy will be happy next year he... Is gone like Woods and Hogan. A receiver will not shine with a lousy QB. Like the rest, Sammy will get a huge pay check with a better QB. Thanks to Tyrod. All of our quality receivers are gone. But it's not TT.
Does "I think you're dreaming on the stats" mean that those stats would be good enough for you?
It's a simple yes or no question
Remember last year when Cardale was on the bench.
Did you just quote and respond to yourself?
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When has it happened in the two years. Jacksonville game this year. Wow Jacksonville. Tennessee wow. I saw what happened with K.C. he couldn't move the ball the second half. We lost. Defense ha three turn over that game and made them punt a few times. Yes, they got tired of being on the field toward the end. Could TT extended a few drives. Some were third and 2. That is what I mean. Seattle and Pitt. We could have rallied back as I before mentioned. If TT did his job and finished. Now the KC game who's fault was it on offense? Sammy had over 100 yards. Shady had over 100 yards combined. Who's fault." Nnnooo, but it wasn't TT"
You're just talking bubbles now. Tell me specifically what it is he needs to do. He made place in the clutch this year.
He was incredibly clutch against Seattle. That throw to the woods on third and 20 something is a pass that is literally is clutch as you get. He got screwed by refs and many other things in that game.
He threw a touchdown pass on fourth down to Clay to go ahead against Miami with less than 90 seconds in the last game he played. Again, pretty damn clutch. And in that same game in overtime he made critical throws to extend A drive that should have been a game-winning drive before his offense of coordinator called one of the dumbest reverse plays to Reggie bush losing 8 yards after McCoy I lost 2 yards on first down. and Carpenter was still left with a very makeable field goal that he missed.
In the second game against new England he threw a gorgeous 50 yard bomb that hit Clay on the hands that he just couldn't bring in.
In the same game against new England he throws a beautiful 20 to 25 yard throws to Brandon Tate that he just flat out drops.
Against Pittsburgh on a third and fairly short he throws the ball to a wide-open Sammy, and Sammy drops the football. It was even ruled a catch. That's how wide open he was. I don't think the refs could believe that he dropped the ball. But he did and he knew it.
I can point out please and instances where he does the things that you state. What needs to happen? 4000 yards passing with 30 TDs and less than 10 and interceptions? Or are you tying everything to wins and losses? And if that's the case, what happens if our defense becomes elite but Taylor please even worse than he did in 2016? The team played well and made the playoffs and maybe even wins A game or two.
The truth is I think that if Taylor has a good season with over 4000 yards passing, around 30 passing touchdowns and roughly 10 interceptions, he will inevitably be back in Buffalo. At that point, you know that he will also add roughly 500 yards rushing and somewhere between two and six rushing touchdowns. And that's a pretty damn good season for a quarterback. I expect if that's his season, the record will follow, and this team will be in the playoffs. If they aren't, then something went down hill with the coaching staff and or the defense and or the special teams. But Taylor will still be back.
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This doesn't tell me much. He does all of those things. I could point to multiple plays for every one of your criteria that you set forth. My guess is you're going to say she doesn't do it enough. That's the easy way out for a lot of you. It's the old "eye test" thing.
How often does he need to do these things, 100% of the time? 75% of the time? 50% of the time?
If you truly believe that even the greatest quarterbacks of all time do those things 100% of the time let's just end this conversation because it's ridiculous belief.
So, instead, give me your tangible criteria that we can see and somehow quantify that will get you behind the Buffalo Bills starting quarterback for 2018 QB if he continues with that job.
Ummm... yes? Are you trying to verify that I posted that or are you trying to have a conversation? Yes, I posted that. Conversation to follow?
Dude, I am no technological savant, but I understand how to use the "function on the message board. It's really not that hard. Please take all of us up on that offer to help
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For the love of Christ .. do you read anything before you respond to it? I said the TEAM sucked. I didn't lay it all on Tyrod, but he was part of the sucktitude.
And no ... Rivers and Brees don't suck. But their TEAMS did. And yes .. they played poorly at times.
But I'm certain you're not comparing Tyrod Taylor to Drew Brees and Philip Rivers. That would be pretty silly.
I read it. Is this one of those random tangent posts complaining in general about how the team needs to win before you can say anything at all about it?
You made that comment in a thread about Taylor. And it was after some discussion about stats regarding Taylor. Sure seemed like you were upset about people bringing in stats and you wanted to bring your own two eyes into play.
Yes, I read your post. Maybe you just needed to vent. But it was at best a tangent to the topic being discussed. Or at worst, It was a horrible conclusion about QBs and wins. I'm sorry for thinking the worst of you. Clearly I was misguided and should have just realize you needed to vent about the team the way so many Bills fans need to.
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Yes, that is true they did bench him. Now the year he came out supposedly the same team was there playing - Cardale right? Did they win a championship? When he played he won and they won. Now were the guys in front of him better? Did they get drafted to play QB? That's right suplament draft. With three games he got drafted 4th round. Tyrod and the rook played more and where did they get drafted? Answer me now because I wanna hear this......
Huh?!
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First of all I was d trying to tell dugny that I knew what Talent was since I grew up in Miami watching the U. U of F and Florida State. Tyrod wasn't the type of talent at qb. Then someone talk about Tyrod 5-1 combined against both schools. Then I came up with the facts. For even though he did beat them is he a national champ. Was he a 1-5 round pick with all that talent? And he warmed the bench for a Superbowl ring. If that answers your question.
Ummm... what?
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This doesn't tell me much. He does all of those things. I could point to multiple plays for every one of your criteria that you set forth. My guess is you're going to say she doesn't do it enough. That's the easy way out for a lot of you. It's the old "eye test" thing.He needs to make better decisions when the game is on the line. Extend drives. Hit wide open receivers, quicker release. Stay in the pocket. Make plays in the clutch. put the team on his shoulders when the team is playing not so good.make the difference when it counts. Have urgency when your team is down. Instead of looking nervous. None of this had happened in two years starting specially with winnable games on the line. That's what I need from him.
How often does he need to do these things, 100% of the time? 75% of the time? 50% of the time?
If you truly believe that even the greatest quarterbacks of all time do those things 100% of the time let's just end this conversation because it's ridiculous belief.
So, instead, give me your tangible criteria that we can see and somehow quantify that will get you behind the Buffalo Bills starting quarterback for 2018 QB if he continues with that job.
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So he goes from Cardale Jones (Cardale Jones Cardale Jones) to talking about Ohio state to gushing on about how he played the game to talking about the Miami Hurricanes as though he was on the team to... well, geez, I don't know where he's going to go next. But this might be the best hijacking of a thread that I've ever seen.
Noogie, simple question for you, what does Taylor need to do to win your affection?
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What are you talking about Aaron Rodgers? He has had plenty of 4 the quarter comeback. Way more than Tyrod would ever do. Aaron Rodgers has beaten good teams in the playoffs with under two min.
How many does he have? Better yet, how many Fourth-quarter come from behind victories does Aaron Rodgers have against any team with a winning record at the end of the year?
The answer to the second question is two.
As for the first question, Rodgers has come back in the 4th quarter in 7% of his games over the span of his career.
Taylor has in 6.9% of his career games.
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See... these leaps to conclusions are apparently just inevitable here.Are you honestly trying to compare Taylor to Brees and Rivers? I think SD had way worse WRs than us and Rivers was making guys like Tyrell Williams into 1,000 yard WRs. Those guys have to carry their teams every game. Taylor is along for the ride.
So silly...
The Tyrod Taylor Question
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by transplantbillsfan
What we do know is this: he played well enough in 2015 and 2016 to earn another year of audition.
Taylor is in the middle of his career. Right now, he just looks like an average QB who will never be elite but will never be horrible either. Maybe 2018 changes the narrative. I'm eager to see it unfold