transplantbillsfan

It's not hate. He's just a Project QB, and by Project QB, I don't mean developmental QB, I mean Project QB. I'll provide what I think is exactly the definition of what a Project QB, and all I've done here is taken the summary section of Allen and Blake Bortles (another obvious Project QB) and combined them. "Possesses ideal size, athletic ability, intangibles and enough arm strength to develop into an upper-echelon quarterback. Is not yet a franchise quarterback, but has all the physical ingredients to become an outstanding NFL starter. Where he goes in the NFL will have a big impact on if he pans out. He needs good coaching to develop his game and improve on his fundamentals. Whichever team views him as a future franchise quarterback and takes him will have to have good quarterback teachers in house to work with him." I don't hate Allen. He's just a clear Project, and those guys very rarely become Franchise QBs, despite plenty of examples historically of teams drafting these guys in the 1st and 2nd round.

No. If we miss the top 4, go for Jackson. I still consider Jackson in the top 4, not Allen.

I wish it were Thursday already. This is the worst draft I can ever remember as far as pure anxiety goes because EVERYONE knows what position our first pick will be, which just happens to be the most important position in sports. But no one knows exactly who it will be.

If we're trying to move up to #1 or #2, it's definitely going to cost more than our 2 1sts this year and one next year. The math for the Jimmy Johnson chart says we'd have to throw in a 2nd and maybe a 3rd this year, too. And as long as we still keep one of those 2nds and one of those 3rds, it'd be worth trading those other picks if we land our QB for the next 15 years.

Glad I checked if this was posted cause I was just gonna post this. An interesting highlight Dilfer said wad how much better a passer Jackson is than anyone gives him credit for and that he actually wants to be a pocket passer. And for those screaming he leaves the pocket too early, according to Dilfer, 77% of Jackson's rushing yards we're on designed runs.

This, I think, is what should worry us the most. Browns inevitably take a QB Jets inevitably take a QB 2 of the 3 teams of the Giants, Broncos & Dolphins (or Pats in a surprise trade up ahead of us) take a QB We're left with utter crap. There's 100% certainty the Bills would get, at best, the 3rd QB at 12. Very likely the 4th and only a little less likely the 5th. Trade up!!!

No, it wouldn't. Which is exactly why he may very well be Beane's target.

No, we're making the playoffs again.

I almost distinguished the type of threesome, but I just kinda figured everyone would assume 2 girls with me in a room with one inflatable pool full of whip cream and another full of jello... or would assume whatever they wanted, as long as it's the dream... ...as long as it's the dream

Allen #1?! Josh friggin Allen as your #1

Would I? Is there a Lamar Jackson crowd? I like Lamar Jackson, but I like Rosen, Mayfield and Darnold more and believe this team has acquired all these draft picks over the last year in order to get the QB they believe is the 1st or 2nd best QB in this draft, not the 4th best. That said, if we stay at 12 and draft Jackson and keep the rest of our picks, I won't be unhappy even though this board will remain very divided.

This 3 way would be almost as exciting as a real one!!! My pleasure from this one would last a lot longer than the real thing... that's for sure

You SUCK!!!!

Is that true??? Hey... know what other QB Bills fans are pretty fond of who was recruited by Joe Paterno as an LB...? Sounds like Darnold would fit right in in Buffalo

No, it was in a "draft day predictions" segment. He said he didn't know if it would be a trade up or for how much, just that Darnold would be a Bill. One of the other guys (not Schrager) predicted Darnold would slide to 6 and the Bills would trade up with the Colts to get him.

Agreed! And there will be peace amongst Bills fans... for at least a little while

And I'll be happy. Almost as happy as if it were Baker Mayfield. No link, but he just said it on Good Morning Football on NFL Network. Lately I think he's been one of the more reliably dialed in guys out there. Take it for what it's worth, less than a week from making that pick.

Project QB= Possesses ideal size, athletic ability, intangibles and enough arm strength to develop into an upper-echelon quarterback. Is not yet a franchise quarterback, but has all the physical ingredients to become an outstanding NFL starter

I know what I originally asked. And that's not what I originally asked. The argument that ensued with Thurm (inevitably) pertained to the fact that there's such a small sample size, which somehow nullifies the point, which completely misses the fact that that actually is the point. Project QBs from big schools drafted for physical potential despite bleh college careers particularly on a sliding scale down rarely succeed the way Jay Cutler or Ryan Tannehill did. Project QBs from smaller schools with really good to spectacular college careers typically trending up has been the relative model for success if you want to include Kaep, Big Ben, Flacco and Wentz. But since Phil Simms was drafted in the 1st round in 1979, where are the QBs from small schools with bleh college careers who went onto even solid NFL careers? That was my original question. Blaine Gabbert and Josh Freeman certainly aren't recent examples and these are the only recent ones I can think of in the 1st round. Anyone else? Brett Favre was drafted in the 2nd, meets all the other criteria and went onto a HOF career, so expand the parameters to the 2nd. Brock Osweiler and Christian Hackenberg don't look like they're heading down that road. I know exactly what I asked. The fact that these guys haven't been drafted means something and, as one poster put it in another thread, is Josh Allen really this incredible exception to the rule or is some GM going to draft him because of hubris? If it's the former, awesome... maybe Allen is great and breaks the trend. If it's the latter, it's more of the same and seemed obvious. And I expanded the question outward to show that project QBs overwhelmingly don't work out, anyway. I think it's being generous including Big Ben, Flacco and Wentz in the criteria for Project QB since the questions for them was all about level of competition rather than accuracy, footwork, mechanics, etc. You can criticize me including them, but as far as "projects" go (and again, I think that summary I posted from Bortles's scouting report at nfl.com captured that definition perfectly), Wentz and Big Ben really weren't, but Flacco might have been. That was my logic for not including them. But even including them, you end up with maybe 10% of these guys being Franchise QBs this millennium. Not so good.

No. Revisionist history. And an incomplete Revisionist history at that. Yeah, Stafford had a low completion percentage overall in college, but he improved on it every year and in his last year he had a 61.5% completion %, threw for almost 3500 yards at 9 YPA at Georgia against serious competition and was the consensus 1st overall pick by nearly everyone. 4 years of grooming? In his 3rd year he threw for over 5000 yards and 40 TDs. He missed the vast majority of his 2nd year due to a shoulder injury. His rookie year he won the job from Daunte Culpepper and struggled mightily... probably because the Lions were just one year removed from being 0-16 and absolutely sucked as a team. Stafford certainly does NOT qualify as Project QB.

I understood what I asked okay, but even loosening up a little to be more inclusive so that they aren't just "top 10" guys,, since 2000 there have been 45 QBs drafted in the first round... and I'd say at least 10 of them were "projects" in the spirit of what the OP was asking. But back to my own criteria you think I'm confused about, I think Blaine Gabbert, Josh Freeman, JP Losman, Patrick Ramsey are all guys generally fit that criteria since 2000. All were busts. Loosening up more, Jake Locker was in a bigger conference but was utterly blah in college and pretty clearly drafted for potential. Bust. Jay Cutler played in the SEC but at one of the small schools and was mediocre. I think he's probably the closest thing a success story in the vein of what I was asking and what the OP asked. But if you then want to just expand it to the obvious projects despite college success you include guys like JaMarcus Russell, Tim Tebow, Ryan Tannehill, Paxton Lynch. Blake Bortles and Tannehill has have had some success, but the rest sure look like busts. Those guys might already be busting, too, particularly Bortles, who was just kinda oddly signed to a fairly lucrative extension. It's what comes with being overdrafted, though. Hap brought up the 2nd round as another place these project QBs are drafted. In terms of those project QBs... and again, these I at least (and I think the OP, too) define as guys who, to put it simply, are drafted because of their physical traits (height, arm strength, speed, etc) not in spite of them. Andy Dalton was drafted in spite of being a little short and having a little bit of a weaker arm. Russell Wilson was drafted, obviously, in spite of his height. Drew Brees was drafted in spite of his height. Those guys weren't viewed as projects. Projects need a ton of work, hence the "project" moniker. Those guys were viewed as developmental in the sense that there was hope that they'd develop into starting NFL QBs. I think the end of Blake Bortles scouting reports is almost precisely the definition of what a Project QB is: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/blake-bortles-1.html Possesses ideal size, athletic ability, intangibles and enough arm strength to develop into an upper-echelon quarterback. Is not yet a franchise quarterback, but has all the physical ingredients to become an outstanding NFL starter I feel like that could be simply cut and pasted into the definition of "Project QB," don't you? I realize that people are going to bring Big Ben, Carson Wentz and Flacco into the fold here, and while all of those guys had the physical gifts, they were also largely ahead of the game in terms of their footwork and mechanics for the NFL. They weren't project QBs in the spirit of that term. They were question marks in terms of level of competition and production in college translating to NFL success. Include them if you want. The success rate still doesn't look good for these guys. If we're going intothe 2nd round, Christian Hackenberg, Colin Kaepernick, Brock Osweiler, maybe even a guy like Brian Brohm were all projects who were drafted almost purely for that ball of clay physical potential. Kaep was almost a success story. Maybe he was. Went to a Super Bowl. Out of the league now. So since 2000 we've had 18 or 21 project QBs taken in the 1st or 2nd round (if you are or are not including Big Ben, Flacco and Wentz) and we've had maybe 3-6 success stories, optimistically with Cutler, Tannehill, Kaep and Big Ben, Wentz and Flacco if you stretch that definition a bit. 3 Franchise QBs, 3 starters who flashed at moments, 15 busts. Not exactly models of success. If we want to keep going back, we could find more examples, I'm sure. I only went back to 2000 and we still averaged more than 1 project QB per year. And on average, once every 6 years you're going to find a Franchise QB drafting a project QB. And Allen's background and history and production in college is notably worse than a lot of these other guys. And he regressed rather than progressed through college. Hence, my belief Allen's got about a 5% chance to go on in the NFL to be a Franchise QB. It's a chance. Not a very good one, but it's a chance. But it's sure one I hope Buffalo doesn't take.

Actually, he's never there when I wake up in the morning... I think he leaves in shame in the middle of the night, which would explain his overcompensation with his homophobic comments on here. One of these mornings he'll surprise me by coming back with coffee in the morning, though. I'm sure of it

Yeah, "project" and "developmental" are connotatively 2 very different things when it comes to QBs. Project QBs are those balls of clay supposedly ready to be molded into whatever you want. Guys who are raw but so physically talented that he (supposedly) just needs to be shaped into whatever you want with time. Developmental QBs are Day 3 guys in the draft. When you asked the question in the OP, I assumed you were talking about the former, not the latter. How was Stafford a project?

How is Mahomes a project QB in remotely the same way Allen will be a project QB? Mahomes was fantastic in college and was pretty sound in terms of accuracy and general fundamentals. The only real question about Mahomes related to the college system he was coming from.

Well... I guess the only thing he could do was add velocity... he sure wasn't going to lose any. I'm still waiting for that pass to reach the sideline at the end of the Jacksonville game