transplantbillsfan

Welp... I'm sorry... I'm not in here all moments of the day. Actually, I haven't had the chance to be in here talking Bills football as much as I used to for months now. I followed protocol. I literally scrolled down to the bottom and looked at the thread titles of the first 3 pages and didn't see the topic. If it's been talked about for many days now, that thread wasn't in the first 3 pages after I read the MMQB and thought about posting it.

Where did Beane say something about Rudolph at 22?

Okay I vaguely remember Gunner's post. I was mainly thinking about this as I read Peter King's MMQB today and saw the Bills were trying to trade up with the Colts. If Rosen was legitimately off Buffalo's board, then I think the persistence of trading up while Arizona was reportedly also trying to do that for the same QB is pretty telling... I also think Arizona's changing narrative of now suddenly claiming they liked Rosen more than Allen is entertaining. https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2018/5/8/17329316/the-arizona-cardinals-were-never-in-on-josh-allen-because-of-the-price

Searched through the first 3 pages... didn't see a thread this would be merged with. So sorry for the trouble.

Brandon Beane actually recounts all of this in terms of the trades and attempted trades almost two weeks ago now to trade up from 12 to get a QB. It's in an article by the Buffalo News, but is, unfortunately, behind a paywall. But even before that article, reports were wide-ranging now that the Bills had a deal in place to trade up to #5 with the Broncos. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-the-draft-day-trade-the-bills-and-broncos-had-in-place-before-bradley-chubb-fell/ And we all know they eventually traded up to #7 with the Bucs (a deal that apparently nearly didn't happen after Beane made an offer and the Bucs GM passed, but then he called Beane back just as they were getting on the clock), but Peter King reports this week in his MMQB that Buffalo legitimately was trying to trade with the Colts, too. http://amp.si.com/nfl/2018/05/07/peter-king-sports-illustrated-nbc-mmqb?__twitter_impression=true • The Bills moved from 12 to seven in the first round to get Josh Allen, and they tried to move from 12 to 6. The Colts, at six, did a great job disguising their intentions, because the league thought GM Chris Ballard wanted Roquan Smith there. But the Colts’ research showed their quarterbacks being hit more than any other quarterbacks in football since 2012. So sure-fire guard starter Quenton Nelson had been locked in for a while at six, and Ballard got the last prospective early interior-line starter on their board at 37, Auburn guard Braden Smith. Interesting that in his pre-draft press conference Ballard said the offensive and defensive lines are how they’ll build this team, and in the first two rounds, he took two guards and two defensive ends. Maybe those useless press conferences are worth something after all. Anyway, when the Bills called Ballard, he didn’t have much interest, because he wanted Nelson so bad as a shield for beaten Andrew Luck. So, Beane was, by his own account, ready to move up to #5 for sure and even had that deal in place before the draft, pending whether the Broncos guy (Chubb) was available or not. Clearly Beane was also trying to get higher, but wasn't willing to give up any future picks, which I'm guessing is what Dorsey at #4 and Gettleman at #2 was asking for. Based on some of his cryptic responses in that Buffalo News article in response to the question of where Allen was on his board, I think it's pretty clear that Darnold was #1 and Allen was #2. But my question is: how much of a drop from Allen to Rosen was there? Of course, this is just an educated guess, but I'd say if it went #1- Darnold and #2- Allen... do you think Rosen was even ranked #3 on the Bills board or do you think he was completely off the Bills board, whether for durability or personality concerns? Whether Rosen was completely off Buffalo's board or not, I don't know. But if Allen and Rosen were ranked even closely together, I don't think the mad scramble to get to #5, then #6, then #7 would have happened... and Benjamin Allbright also reported early this week that Arizona had been trying to get to #5 for Allen. https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/992792690600407040 There was no deal in place pre draft between Denver and Arizona. Arizona had called to inquire, but Denver had a deal in place with Buffalo (as we reported prior to the draft). Denver backed out of that deal to select Bradley Chubb. Both Buffalo and AZ were after Josh Allen at 5 So, knowing the price we paid and would have also been willing to pay going up to #5 and the picks we could have saved if the difference between Allen and Rosen were negligible, do you think our trade up to draft Allen is more a sign of how much Buffalo likes Allen or how much Buffalo didn't like Rosen?

Part of the reason Peterman got absolutely rocked is that he doesn't have an NFL arm and had serious trouble actually making NFL throws even from a clean pocket. Allen has an NFL arm... and then some. And Allen isn't just a statue in the pocket either. I think comparing Allen to Peterman is off base. As for Edwards... call his career simply shook by a single hit from Adrian Wilson. PS... why has the last page or so turned into a Tyrod Taylor discussion? Is he a Buffalo Bill anymore? Who cares that Cleveland's Head Coach is choosing to bench his high 1st round QB for a vet QB... it doesn't mean that's the right move for the Buffalo Bills.

Considering that all of this is based on his college tape over the last 2 years and, supposedly, Allen and Palmer have fixed a lot of these issues, I expect Allen to start earlier than midseason... likely week #1... PS: This is Joe B's most thoughtful/thorough work I think I've ever read. I hope this is indicative of a massive chip on his shoulder so he can continue to autocorrect all these "pre-draft flaws" that he claims and we hope have been corrected. One thing's for sure... with his buddy/offseason QB Summit competitor Darnold now in the same division and in a significantly larger media market, that chip on his shoulder can be nourished healthily for the next decade PLUS with almost inevitably more national attention going to the guy in NYC.

This is such a friggin comprehensive and thorough article, I don't think it should have been merged, but whatever. It's gotta be the most thoughtful thing I ever read from Joe B. I actually went back a couple times to see if he actually wrote it. Considering that all of this is based on his college tape over the last 2 years and, supposedly, Allen and Palmer have fixed a lot of these issues, I expect Allen to start earlier than midseason... likely week #1.

I won't be upset if McCarron starts, I just think his likelihood of starting depends more on Allen losing the job than on McCarron winning it. If the difference between McCarron and Allen is negligible, with McCarron being even slightly ahead, I think Allen will start for the sake of that invaluable on-field learning. If Allen continues the reported trajectory he's been on since his last game at Wyoming with his improvements on mechanics and footwork--which have been considered his biggest weakness--then I think Allen will be a lot further along than all those folks saying he needed to sit a full year were saying and would become the favorite to win the starting job. I rescind my argument that Allen should start week 1 if this apparent repair of his mechanics and footwork doesn't stick... but he and Palmer and others seem to believe he's fixed them or is in the process of fixing them with continued reps for muscle memory's sake.

Yeah... he might... I don't think by much if at all, but he might.

Do you suspect he has much of a chance showing he's much better than Allen, if at all?

That's a game I'm considering being back in WNY for... That'd be awesome ...way more awesome than the Thad Lewis introduction to the NFL in 2013... although that game actually went to OT.

Oh please... I think McCarron is probably smart enough to realize whatever time he gets under center during the regular season is borrowed time. Seriously... it's a new NFL.. rookie QBs just generally don't sit unless they're extremely raw... and Allen isn't raw in the way Mahomes was, who never really NFL experience playing in an Air Raid offense in College. What exactly about him is raw?

I thought about starting a thread predicting Allen would and maybe even should start immediately, but I think I'd jinx him In truth, though, despite the fact that he's currently 3rd on the depth chart, I kinda think Beane wants/expects him to win this job out the gate. I can't get the article anymore, but in that Buffalo News article about the draft process, I thought this comment was telling: "I think what's come with social media and all the draft coverage is that all the stats get plastered out there,” he said. “I said it on the radio show the other day ...one of the guys said something about Josh Allen being raw. I went into a thing like, raw came from a national pundit. They labeled these guys as different things. Some of them I agreed with, some of them I did not.” That sure sounds like Beane doesn't believe Allen is raw. Dude is 6'5, 240 lbs, all the arm strength in the world, has more experience in a pro style offense than the other top QBs, is very smart, and quick to process things. The biggest question, I think, will be how much of the improvements on his mechanics and footwork from his work with Palmer has truly stuck. He has the size and athleticism where I don't think he's going to get shell shocked after getting killed in his rookie year. If he earns the job, let him start right away. Does signing AJ McCarron as like the last real viable fringe starting QB on the 3rd day of Free Agency really make people think McBeane's plan A all along has been to have a vet QB start this year??? Do you think AJ McCarron is a shoe-in or even a favorite to beat an uber talented rookie who's likely really going to WOW his coaches over the Summer with at least his physical ability, if not also his mental processing (based on reports of how he is at the whiteboard)??? If your answers to both of those questions are "No," which I think they are, then Allen's probably the favorite to win this job right out the gate.

Cool T.O. 2.0

Boy... you're being really sensitive. What's upsetting you?

Guess we view athleticism differently. Also shows what happens to messaging based on the perspective of the listener, cause I heard very little in there about "arm talent" (I assume you mean strength) and more about work ethic, smarts, processing speed, misunderstood accuracy, etc. But, to each his own. I am. Are you?

Awesome article. I read it right away so I wouldn't lose the opportunity to. Beane sounds legitimately like he was super excited about this draft, even though I think it's clear he had Darnold ranked ahead of Allen, but I think Allen was his #2 and wasn't all that far behind. Just a guess, though. One quote I thought was really interesting: “I think what's come with social media and all the draft coverage is that all the stats get plastered out there,” he said. “I said it on the radio show the other day ... one of the guys said something about Josh Allen being raw. I went into a thing like, raw came from a national pundit. They labeled these guys as different things. Some of them I agreed with, some of them I did not.” I don't think Beane really views Allen as all that raw and it seems to indicate there's a strong possibility he starts pretty quickly, if not immediately.

Did you listen to all those interviews I posted? Did you listen to any of them? Doesn't seem like you did if Palmer is "just excited about Allen's athleticism" considering he talks very very little about Allen's athleticism. Here's another WGR interview by Palmer just before the draft. http://www.wgr550.com/media/audio-channel/04-25-quarterback-consultant-jordan-palmer-howard-and-jeremy Another interesting thing, to me, is the post draft interview circuit for Palmer. He's had some regarding Allen, but none, as far as I can find, about Darnold. I absolutely did... though not the defending him with my life thing. But yes, I loathed the idea of drafting him. I also said before the draft that if we drafted him, I just hoped I could delude myself into getting excited about my new QB relatively quickly... and I guess I did

Ethos: Character and credibility, often inclusive of expertise and knowledge. (Thanks Aristotle ) If Jordan Palmer has it... then Allen >>>>> Darnold. All in all, I have listened to Palmer talk about Allen and Watson and Darnold a good bit... he really seems genuinely excited about Allen in interviews I've watched and listened to, slightly less about Darnold. On the DP show a couple weeks ago, unprompted Palmer brought Allen's name up when Darnold to the Browns was referenced. You could call it salesmanship, but listen to the interview... he's genuinely excited... even saying that Darnold would be the clear #1 in any other draft, but not this one. Sounds like he almost gets coerced into coming back to talk about Darnold. On Darnold's pro day, Palmer, at one point, says Darnold has probably about 20% less of the arm strength of his brother but about 20% more mobility. At another point in the interview he brings up how mobility is going to be necessary for Franchise QBs moving forward, but at the moments he talks about this in the interview, he's not bringing Darnold's name up. He also makes a point to bring up Allen's upcoming pro day in this interview. As for Palmer's feelings solely about Darnold... In other interviews like on the Rich Eisen show, for example, he just sounds so stoked about Allen. http://www.wgr550.com/media/audio-channel/04-27-jordan-palmer-one-bills-live Sorry if this was posted... I searched "Jordan Palmer wgr" and didn't find this Interview from Palmer right after Allen was drafted -Allen is so small town that his teammates are going to quickly become his family -Allen's completion %, after watching the tape, should have been at least 4-6% higher... that he even reached 56% with all the factors working against him (protection, offensive weapons, guys open, dropped balls, etc) is amazing... Allen's significantly more accurate than his numbers imply. -Incredible work ethic derived from being a farm boy... this is actually a really interesting part of the interview -Raved as a unique QB, but Palmer used a combo of his brother, Big Ben and Deshaun Watson in comparison to the mould he might fit -Incredible smarts. Palmer said his smarts/study habits were greater than Deshaun Watson, who he worked with last year. And he absolutely lauded Watson's smarts. -Allen has only scratched the surface. 2 years of real college Football after being injured and out for a year after a JuCo after playing HS Football at a tiny little High School. and a fun little tidbit... - The funniest QB Palmer's been around... and he specifically brought up Fitzpatrick. And on a sidenote... can we PLEASE friggin hire Palmer as our QB coach for continuity's sake?!

So regarding more "highlights." Here are just a few of his senior bowl highlights, which I think are significant because of the caliber of players he's both playing with and against: I think once you get past the first couple plays where he scrambles and get to the 30 second mark of the video, his passes really jump out and demonstrate he's more than just a strong armed big kid... At that 30 second mark, Allen shows great pocket presence along with strength as he steps up in the pocket after shedding a tackler and despite that tackler getting a good hand on him and a relatively open field in front of him to gain a few yards, Allen calmly throws the ball to a WR running across the middle of the field 15-20 yards away while almost simultaneously shedding the tackler. On his 1st TD pass. He demonstrates great touch and pinpoint accuracy on a pass that travels probably 30 yards in the air... no hesitation on his part throwing to a player who's pretty well covered, either. His 2nd TD pass showed great touch, too, though the guy was more open. In fact, it was his touch on many of his passes in the Senior bowl that impressed me. In the highlights of the OP of all the TDs, a lot of those passes were "WOW" throws, many in terms of arm strength (and accuracy), but one of the things we've been hearing so much in terms of criticism is his ability to adjust ball speed. But the last TD throw in the highlights showed great touch and at the Senior Bowl I think you saw it even more. Getting excited about what the kid could be

Thanks Hap... I need to decompress from that terrible music before I give any thoughts on the throws themselves.

These types of analytics were my reason for loathing the idea of drafting Allen before we drafted him. This very "he's destined to fail because look at all these other failures who had similar collegiate careers" is the very reason I chucked my phone across the room the moment I heard his name. But I legitimately think his story, the path he traveled to get to that college career and ultimately get drafted, becomes the reason I've gotten largely behind this pick. His story tells me he's just really, really different... maybe there will be different results with him...?

If he's somehow way ahead of schedule, why would he need time? I think so, too.

Yeah, my biggest takeaway was the Rosen thing, too. I mean, I seriously wanted Goodell to call his name when we traded up... like so much so that I threw my phone across the room... it's a flip phone, so it's fine. But then when I heard several radio and TV interviews immediately after on draft night, I couldn't believe what a jackass he was. And those interviews were when my paradigm shift began, and it's continued as I've really really looked at Allen both on the field and off. It's possible I'd make excuses for Rosen if we drafted him and he said the same things, but I don't think so. I've seen people comparing Rosen to Mayfield in terms of what was said as a means to excuse Rosen, portraying it as some double edged sword, but I think it'd be different with Mayfield because he wouldn't get all weirdly snobby and political with his comments. I dunno... but evidently his personality is actually a pretty big problem.