transplantbillsfan

Fair enough... I understand your position, I just think you're being too absolute about a situation that started unfolding 2 days ago. Maybe you're setting the bar as low as possible so as not to be disappointed. Maybe you legitimately think Allen will need that time to adjust despite the fact that the other rookie 1st round QBs recently haven't because Allen is significantly more raw. But wouldn't it be more refreshing to see Allen win the QB competition and then start the season in those first 4 games you're afraid to throw him in? Of course you're going to say something like "yes, but I don't think that's going to happen." And that's fine. I just think there's a better chance of that happening than you do. And all my feelings are subject to change as we see how the Summer unfolds.

Let's be honest... no. No, I do not only want Allen to start because I'm impatient. Yes, however, I'll readily admit there's impatience involved here. Forgive me if I'm a little impatient seeing my favorite team go over 20 years without a Franchise QB and if that plays a role here... it does. And I think it naturally should for any Bills fan. But my impatience is NOT what drives my belief that Allen probably should and probably will start a significant chunk of games this season, if not week #1. What drives that belief for me is that Allen is clearly the more talented QB physically and, more importantly, he has the mental fortitude and work ethic to learn the position while on the field taking live bullets. You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything is an unknown on offense and that McDermott will and should treat it as such. I think that's pretty naïve considering McDermott actively sought Dabol as his new OC and has a year's worth more familiarity with all of his offensive players who'll contribute this year with the exception of guys we've acquired like Bodine and Ivory. Dabol is the biggest change for the offense... other than QB, obviously. But Dabol also have a (very recent) history of being very adaptable in his offense based on who's under center while still running an effective offense. He also said specifically that he has a plan for Allen. Now, maybe that plan is "you're going to sit on the bench the entire year and stay on my hip and learn," but that's not what he thinks he means. I want Allen to start, in part, because I think Dabol will be very smart about the game plans and playbook and the way he handles Allen. And I think McDermott brought him in because of that. You're right, we have an offense in transition and we have a new offensive scheme but it's in transition and new scheme for every single player we have on offense, not just Allen. McCarron's going to be learning the new offense, too. His only leg up in this is 4 years he had on the bench behind Dalton (in a different offense from the one we'll be running) and his whopping 3 NFL starts and 133 meaningful pass attempts. Your mentality clearly is to just throw the vet to the wolves, even if he's not better, because it'll be better for the rookie. I disagree completely, and that has nothing to do with impatience. This is a new era of the NFL. It's not David Carr's era. Lots of QB-friendly rules. So unless our OL is completely in absolute shambles and they can't protect Allen at all, you make sure you start whoever the better guy is through minicamps, training camp and preseason. High rookie draft picks typically don't need to sit anymore if they have the right stuff upstairs. Allen might hit a rookie wall if he starts the way Wentz did in his rookie year, but that doesn't mean starting him was a bad choice.

First of all, if the coaches view Allen's mechanics as being below a certain threshold for NFL Quarterbacking, I'm sure he'll be on the bench until they're confident they're fixed. But I think his footwork problems are overblown. Yes, he has documented issues with footwork in college. But the footwork issues seemed to be more about inconsistency than bad habits. It was more that sometimes he would throw off his back leg or sometimes he wouldn't point his left foot in the direction he was going to throw or sometimes he wouldn't square his hips. But sometimes he would do everything exactly right. I'm not expert enough on the QB position regarding footwork and haven't watched every one of his snaps or every one of all the other rookie QB snaps to know how often this was a problem or how much more of a problem it was for him than it was for, say, Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield. But I've read varying analyses that the footwork improved from 2016-2018... plus there's the supposed work he did with Jordan Palmer all offseason. But I just don't think lower body mechanics (footwork) are nearly as concerning as the upper body mechanics, which Allen has down pretty well as he looks like a completely natural thrower of the football, unlike that other 1st round rookie we drafted 5 years ago, who legitimately needed to sit on the bench because he just wasn't a natural passer.

McCarron = Jimmy G...?

3rd day. May 14th was when he signed. He signed a day after McCown, Bradford, Cousins and Keenum all signed, which is what I consider the 1st wave because those were all the most desirable QBs in FA who were legit placeholders at the very least as starting QBs. Bridgewater was the other and he signed same day as McCarron, but I don't know if it was before or after. News was coming fast at the beginning of FA with lots of guys signing so that extra day is a long time. But it's not just the extra day, it's the fact that we might have been the most desperate team out there in terms of FA, but our eyes were clearly on the draft so we weren't going to overpay, which we didn't, because we got McCarron at a fantastic price. The Bills didn't go hard after any QB in FA, but they did after Allen. That says something.

You're free to. It's an opinion, not a fact. Just as I'm free to disagree with your opinion.

This is based on the basic premise that bench learning is the best learning. I disagree. I hope--under the conditions that Allen actually wins the QB competition, is able to play above a certain baseline threshold and our OL isn't in complete shambles--that Allen starts.

Yes, because I think his OC coerced him into starting Peterman in that game and he only let that carry on for a half and said Taylor, not Peterman was his starter from thereon out. I think he has a much closer, more confident relationship with Dabol.

The OL is the biggest question mark, but just because it's a question mark doesn't mean it's automatically going to be worse so don't start the rookie. They might be better than last year. They might be pretty good. Glenn never even played under McDermott, so he's not a loss, and honestly, I think Groy/Bodine might just be a lateral step (or even a step forward ) from Wood/Incognito. And I think the Bills offensive roster is better than last year.Shady and Ivory and Cadet is a good, maybe extremely good backfield... much better than last year simply by letting go of Tolbert.Clay is a really good TE. O'leary I honestly think will be productive in the NFL for a long time. Logan Thomas has tons of potential for a TE.Benjamin is at least a true #1 WR. McDermott I assume had plenty of input in last year's draft, so I'd say he still has confidence Jones can be a capable #2, but besides him there are players like Reilly and Streater who I'm excited to see along with the vet Kerley and some other players. Our WR corps is already better than last year just with a healthy Benjamin.

Why? You actually think McDermott won't just start the best guy?

EDIT: For the collective poll from the Summer ending September 1st on who would win the Summer QB competition: 479 votes cast. 31.11% were for Allen  45.51% were for McCarron   23.38% were for Peterman  45.51% of the people who voted saw the guy they thought would start week 1 traded away. 23.38% of the board was correct. The rest of us apparently gave our Head Coach the benefit of the doubt and thought he'd make the right choice

It will absolutely stun me if Peterman won.

I think Wyche was being a bit generous in his praise of McCarron. I don't think the competition will be McCarron as the clear winner. I think Allen's gonna win the starting job week 1 outright. McCarron has time on the bench for 4 years but doesn't exactly have a wealth of experience in games. I also think this is different from Taylor in 2015. Taylor's competition in 2015 in an already largely mentally/emotionally shot EJ Manuel and a Matt Cassell several years over the hill. I think Allen is already significantly better than the competition Tyrod faced when he won the job.

No, he won't. Do you truly believe this or is it just a massive troll job? I really don't know which is worse.

I take it this is in follow up to his "QB Final Exams" he did for the 6 top rookie QBs? Can't listen to it at the moment... anything extra in there from outside what those evaluations said?

Yes, that was the thread. I have a flip phone and those things are tanks, so I just put the battery back in the phone, put the back cover back on and turned it on. All good

Amen. That article you posted really starts to shed light on the kid, and the kid is the reason I fall into the "medium heat" category. I think his story is just so unique to the NFL that maybe he can break through and become a unique player, too.

That first article has within it all the reasons I really really didn't want initially and some of the reasons I like him now. It leaves out the personal background/late bloomer stuff, but I like the discussion at the end relating to Stafford. I'll say this, it's hard defending the pick to others who've seen him play who aren't Wyoming fans. Allen played in the same conference as Hawaii, so a lot of people here have seen him play, including a terrible outing against us. I tried defending the pick last night at a work party--not easy.

Haven't seen the 1st article. Thanks!

I understand your position completely and don't entirely disagree. It's part of why on draft day I threw my phone against the wall when I heard the name "Allen" rather than "Rosen." But what I asked initially in the thread was what was weighing on the Buffalo Bills/McBeane's mind, not Hapless Bills Fan's mind. You said you think it was more an injury thing as to why we clearly coveted Allen over Rosen. I think that's probably a part of it, but with the sheer number of meet n greets and pre draft visits and so on the Bills had combined with a Head Coach who, to me, is very much about culture and humility and personality, I think they clearly liked Rosen on the football field but we were trying to see how well his personality and demeanor would fit in with Buffalo (team more than city, but city, too) as much as anything, and they really didn't think he was a fit.

My "leap" was based on the earlier criticism of me even starting this thread because of Gunner's thread stating that Mayfield and Rosen were off the our board. Might not be true, but that was my basis... not something I randomly came up with.

All fair enough. I'm just going by what was public in terms of pre draft meetings... and there were plenty with Mayfield and Rosen. The injury history may have been a concern, but I'm a little mystified that you would think personality would not be something Beane and particularly McDermott are very very seriously considering in building a roster... or that personality for the 2 biggest red flagged QBs of the draft couldn't have possibly been a part of reportedly taking both guys off their board.

Steve Wyche: "If Josh Allen is going to get playing time this year he's got to get it out of the gate" http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/steve-wyche-if-josh-allen-going-get-playing-time-year-hes-got-get-it-out-gate "McCarron is a young guy that really hasn't had a break. I think he'll compete like hell, he'll be a good leader in that locker room. I think the competitive edge he'll have will at least let him start the season. I think the Bills have a good enough team to win plenty of games with him as the starter. That could make the transition to Josh Allen tough, which is why I think if Josh Allen is going to get playing time this year, he's got to get it out of the gate."