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Holy crap did he ever. I know he was on the refs radar for a couple of seasons given his track record of committing a few personal foul penalties per season and always jawing but over the last two seasons he hasn't had any scuffles at all. You'd think he'd get a call here and there.

As usual my man, you know what's up. Would any of us mind if they added a "true #1" WR? No, but the fact is is that you can win without one. I do think it's important they find some more pass-catchers this year, whether that's WRs or TEs but I don't see them going out of their way to try and land a big name receiver.

I said at the very beginning that one of these prospects could turn out to be a big time receiver, but as of right now the wide receivers in this draft aren't in the same class as guys that often come to mind when you think of a #1 receiver. And my point on Daboll was that he's going to carry over some of the things he learned in New England and one of the things he learned there was that you don't need a premiere wide receiver to win. Julio Jones, Odell Beckham, Antonio Brown, Mike Evans... all those dudes are sitting on the couch. The whole idea is that a "true #1 WR" doesn't make or break a team.

I believe Dennison was always a stop-gap. They knew they were tearing it down after 2017 so after their first few targets went elsewhere, I think they figured, "Let's just get an experienced guy in here for this season and next season we'll look to find the guy we'll roll with for the foreseeable future."

Each year as the draft rolls around these prospects have their skill sets picked apart. Case in point with this Snell kid, I keep seeing, "Kid doesn't catch out of the backfield, pass!" And I always find myself thinking, "Maybe he didn't do it a lot in college but it's not like they can't coach him up and help him develop that skill." Sometimes it feels like people view a prospect as they are in college and that's it. Scouting prospects is partially about what they've accomplished now but it's more about how they can translate to the pro level. If there are pro-level traits in a player, he'll be found by someone out there, and they'll bring him in and coach him up wherever he needs work.

I think I've mentioned this in some other threads but it all gets lost in the shuffle. Seems almost every other day we have new threads about how badly the Bills need a number one wide receiver. I'm not saying I disagree, they certainly need some playmakers added to the receiver room, however... I wouldn't hold my breath that they acquire a big-time pass catcher. There are a few reasons, mostly everyone already knows the first two: there's not much in free agency and while there are a handful of receivers in the draft who *could* develop into a number one guy, there aren't any prospects that are ready to assume that role right from the start. A trade can always happen but I doubt Beane is willing to give up too much at this point, especially after he got the short end of the stick on the KB deal. But the other reason, probably the most important reason we won't see them add a guy like that is because Brian Daboll is their OC. That's not a negative comment, by the way. Daboll spent a long time in New England where Tom Brady only had a "true WR1" like, once, and that was Randy Moss. Other than that, Brady has been throwing to an assorted collection of receivers, backs and tight ends for his entire career. They always have a stable of versatile running backs that can make plays coming out of the backfield. They've usually always rolled with at least one monster a TE (Gronk) and have in past seasons added another monster TE that would be a #1 anywhere else (Martellus Bennett), and slot guys like Edelman and Welker have been their leading receivers more than a few times. Belichick has always put a lot of value in versatility. It's the reason the Pats offense is always able to morph back and forth from a pass-heavy attack to a run-heavy attack or something more balanced. Whatever defense they face, they tailor their offense to exploit weaknesses in that defense. Some teams have their schemes and it's "our guys can beat your guys" and that's that, but more and more you're seeing teams that want to have more than just one offensive identity. Daboll is cut from that same cloth. He's said it since day one, that his offense would be a multi-faceted unit capable of switching gears based upon their opponent. And McDermott, like Belichick, is another coach who values versatility. I'm not saying that they'll never have an established go-to receiver, but I don't expect it in 2019 just given the circumstances. Really, I'd expect them to add pieces to every offensive skill group; backs, receivers and tight ends. Again, Daboll worked with Gronk, and then you have McBeane who are following the formula they used in Carolina where they had Greg Olsen. On the bright side, while the draft isn't very deep for receivers, it's shaping up to be pretty good for tight ends, so maybe McBeane finds his own Greg Olsen there. Overall, I expect them to follow the same type of formula outlined above and honestly, it's a proven method that shows you can win without a big-time WR.

Wow, I'm surprised at this one. Castillo and McDermott go way back to their days in Philly. I know Castillo is a well-respected coach and there's a lot to be made as to just how inexperienced this team is but if you look at the main starters in the OL, the only rookie was Teller. Dawkins was in his second year and then Groy/Bodine, Miller and Mills are all experienced players. Should've been a little more cohesion along the line but they just never seemed to really settle in. The other thing to note is that Castillo was also the running game coordinator. Week after week it looked like the same type of runs we're being called and they just weren't working. He just kept beating his head against the wall. No creativity or anything.different to try and get a spark there. That may be a bigger deal as to why he was let go because, at times, pass protection wasn't too bad. But anytime they tried to run it...woof. Obviously losing Wood and Incognito was tough but this is the NFL, gotta adapt. Castillo didn't.

The dude he flattened didn't finish the game.

Both guys have the luxury of saying they didn't have a whole lot to work with, especially on special teams. That whole unit is almost exclusively undrafted guys and first/second-year players. Crossman has somehow survived three different coaching changes and given how he did seem to get things turned around later in the season I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed. Special teams were kind of a mess this year, the whole punter situation was flukey, Hauschka ain't right at the moment, I think that hit he took has affected the power in his kicks, I mean...how do you come up short on 42 and 43 yard field goals? They've shuffled in a bunch of different returners as well. So yeah, given all that, Crossman probably stays with a promise from McBeane to find him a couple more core special teams guys cause right now the only one they have is Alexander. Castillo stays. It's been a rough year for Shady but some of that's on him. He's not the type to take that "three yards and a cloud of dust" but sometimes you just gotta take what's there. Seems like the OL looked better when Ivory and Ford were in there. Both guys are one cut and go style runners, downhill and all that. I feel like a back like that is probably a better fit for what they wanna do offensively. Not to say I don't think Shady can still have a role as a change of pace back who can also make plays in the passing game. I dunno. I guess that was a long way of saying, "I think they'll both stay."

Good lord. Get lost.

Da Bearss...Ditka...Sausage... They have a fun defense and an offense that seems to do just enough. I'd also like to see Phillip Rivers finally get there but nearly all the Charger squads he's led to the playoffs in his career somehow play their worst games at the worst possible times. Just as long as it's not the stupid Pats or the friggin' Chiefs.

What a frickin baby

Wouldn't surprise me if they picked it up. Some players take a little longer to develop than others. He's shown flexibility by lining up both inside and outside. And he really came on over the last few games. I dunno what Miami was thinking but he and Hughes both embarrassed O'Leary yesterday. If anyone had any remaining questions as to why that guy got cut then there ya go.

I hear you. Basically I just meant that when it comes to wanting to return for 2019 or not, the ball definitely seems to be in their court. They value both guys pretty highly and clearly they're still effective. What's great about it is that both have seen their snap-count drop a fair amount compared to last year. I think if they do come back both guys will continue to play in rotational and situational roles. If I had to guess I would say Kyle hangs it up before Lorenzo. Kyle has been a starter playing a high percentage of snaps for most of his career while Lorenzo made his living on special teams and as a backup until earning a full-time starting role with the Bills. Despite his age, he doesn't have the same mileage on him that Kyle does and I think he's driven to show he can still produce despite his age. And Beane basically said that it's all up to Kyle if he wants to come back. The job is his if he wants it. I think the same goes for Lorenzo.

I always go back to this article the Bills website posted just prior to the 2014 season. It went really in-depth on Manuel's history, upbringing and development in football. The thing that was mentioned that stood out to me is that EJ actually needed a fair amount of tutoring all through middle and high school. Not that that's a bad thing or whatever, but my takeaway from that was that EJ was probably always gonna have trouble with the mental aspect of playing QB. You have to know what all ten of your fellow teammates are doing or need to do on any given play. You need to assess defensive looks both pre and post-snap. You have to be able to check out of plays, you have to recognize if the defense is giving a specific look that you know you have a play in the playbook that can beat that look (kinda like how Allen checked into the go-route to Foster on the "the sun was in mah eyes!" play from Sunday), etc. etc. There's just so much to the position mentally that it's easy to see how young QBs get overwhelmed very easily. And despite the fact that EJ's work ethic is off the charts, there are some things in the game that are a "you either got it or you don't" type of situation and I think his post-snap decisions showed how difficult it was for him to properly adjust to what the defense was throwing at him. His internal clock always seemed a tick slow and his brain seemed to default to "no one's open, don't hang around and wait for something to develop, just run!" most of the time. I also recall a scouting report I read on him which made a good point: the person EJ trusts the most to make a play is himself. He still locks onto his first read at times and if it isn't there, he takes off, clean pocket or not. He has a hesitancy to toss one up in a 50/50 situation and give his guys a chance to make a play. It certainly didn't help that Marrone and Hackett both wanted to run the ball forever and coached him to bail and run if his immediate reads weren't open. That's pisspoor coaching. EJ had his own flaws for sure but the coaching around him in Buffalo was hot garbage. Marrone is a moody weirdo, Hackett always looked like he was in over his head, and the QB coach was Todd Downing, who, at the time, had a resume of being basically an assistant to other assistant coaches up until 2011 when he was hired to coach QBs in Detroit. He did really well with Derek Carr from 2015 to 2016 and was even promoted to OC for 2017 where he promptly drove that entire side of the ball into the ground all the way to China and was fired as soon as the season ended. You could even say that EJ had a fairly decent supporting cast having Woods, Watkins, Goodwin and Hogan. He had Glenn and Wood in their prime up front, had Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller, but things just didn't pan out. I also don't think Marrone liked the kid from day one, honestly. He wanted to roll with Kolb until he was viciously attacked by a floor-mat, leaving them no choice to start Manuel, who had missed most of the pre-season that year due to injury but was rushed back for week one. EJ takes his lumps in 2013, heads into 2014 thinking he's the unquestioned starter... but then... what was it... ten days before the regular season started and here comes Kyle Orton and there goes EJ's confidence. Now he has a decent veteran to learn from, maybe that's what he was told, but four games in he gets sent to the bench and has been a backup ever since. And there was all that friction between Marrone and Whaley who were at polar opposites when it came to the QB position. Marrone kicked and screamed for a vet QB until he got his way all while Whaley was like, "play the kid!" No cohesion up top makes things difficult. I dunno, a lot goes into it. He definitely shouldn't have been a first round pick, him being taken 16th overall created pressure from a good part of the fan-base who sees "first round pick EJ Manuel, oh, he must be awesome to go in the first, he better not suck!!" and they call for his benching the minute he throws one crappy pass. I think at best, EJ could've been a high quality game manager. Rely on the run, play it safe most times, protect the ball, eat up the clock and every now and then let him take some shots. With better coaching and understanding he could've been a guy like that. But, his flaws combined with a poor coaching setup in Buffalo pretty much doomed his career by the end of his rookie season.

I don't think he's ready to be "the guy" of the tight end group but I certainly think he can play an important role. Remember, the dude played wide receiver for most of his college career. Don't quote me, but I think he shifted to TE in his senior season. He's got size and athleticism, obviously he's still learning how to be a well-rounded TE but, I think he's a guy you keep working with and see where he can go. He definitely seems to have the right type of character and mindset McBeane prefer. I'd just like him to learn to know when he's beaten, and by that I mean, if you're surrounded by five defenders with four of them already on your back, maybe just say "screw it" to the extra half-a-yard you're trying to get and get down so you don't fumble. That's happened twice to him this year and once last year if I recall correctly, can't cough it up like that. Especially this past Sunday's situation. I mean, I get it, he was trying to break free and score but he has to know when he's beat and when to secure the ball and just hit the turf. Didn't do that and he cost the team points. That extra half-yard ain't worth losing the ball. He'll learn...maybe... I had high hopes for Logan Thomas but that drop on Sunday basically closed the door on him for me. He's JAG and he's just barely made the cut last year and this year so...unless he shows immense improvement next season, I think he'll be shown the door. They need a tight end with a wonky last name like Metzelaars or Riemersma, those guys panned out alright, maybe a guy named Jablonkski or Grundlesnork can come in and be the guy.

Yeah, this is a good observation. We know they are all in on the youth movement but I think it's pretty clear that McBeane places a pretty high value on having experienced leaders in the locker room. The way they've set things up for the future is what makes me hopeful for the whole process. In 2017 they went out and signed a handful of veteran players that are still under 30 (i.e. Hyde, Poyer, etc.) and then they brought back Kyle and Lorenzo as like the "elder statesmen" or whatever, and finally, they headed into this season with a super high percentage of the roster being made up of first, second or third year players. They keep a good mix of experience, leadership, and youth. And I'm pretty sure the whole point of having those veteran leaders around is to show the youngins how to conduct yourself as a professional, provide leadership, and get these kids ready for the "passing of the torch" that'll inevitably happen. And those two guys, #95 and #57, I'm pretty sure they have a "you have a job here for as long as you want" type of situation. Gotta respect that. Obviously McBeane haven't hit on every decision (no team does) but I can certainly see the reasoning behind their team-building methods at this point.

Did anyone else see the NFL Films version of Allen's Mic'd Up from the last game? My favorite part is probably where he and Daboll on are on the sidelines and Daboll says, "You're doing a great job today, getting the ball out on time, everything's looking good." The very next clip is where he scrambled and fumbled, which kinda cracked me up just based on the way they had it play out. "Hey Josh, you're doing great!" "Thanks, Coach, I promise I won't fum-- dang it!"

You can apply this stuff to the 31 other teams that also didn't draft Brady, Gronk, Roethlisberger, Wilson, etc. Brady was an afterthought to most teams, viewed as barely a backup. Other teams passed on Gronk for the same reason the Bills did, dude had a laundry list of injuries throughout college and was seen as a guy that would spend more time in the training room than on the field. Every other team in the league had Russell Wilson projected as a 4th round or later pick. Seattle was the only team that had him projected as a 3rd round guy. Wilson met with the Bills at the Combine, came to Buffalo for a pre-draft visit and word was, the Bills wanted to take him in the 4th, Seattle just beat everyone to it. This kinda hindsight stuff is a little silly. You never know who's going to work out and who isn't when it comes to the draft. There have been a bunch of "sure thing" players that have been colossal busts and plenty of "this guy is a bust before he even plays a down" players who have turned into All-Pros. You just never know.

I guess it depends on which part of the field they're coming from. All players on the sideline have to stay in between the 30 yard lines. If a guy runs straight to the sideline from say, he 20, he can still cause his team to get penalized.... I think....

Man, sign me up for a house like that whenever the time comes for me to actually buy one. Good luck, OP, hope everything works out.

Yeah, this is what's up. I don't know if I've ever seen a season in which the receivers just aren't coming down with the ball the way these Bills receivers haven't been doing. For someone as big and (supposedly) as strong as KB, I've never seen more "drops after the catch" from someone. Guy can get his hands on the ball but like, every other pass he couldn't reel it all the way in. It'd get knocked out on his way to the ground, or the ground would knock it out. Zay has passes zipping through his hands and smacking him in the facemask. Clay looks like the most adjusting to a throw he can do is to move his hands maybe 6 or 8 inches outside his frame and that's it. The receivers they go after in free agency or the draft need to be guys who are really good at adjusting to oddly placed throws and coming down with contested catches. I know Allen can fire a pinpoint perfect pass when everything goes just right for him but that doesn't happen 100% of the time. Allen has that "area code" accuracy going on. He can get it within a receivers catch radius but it's not always gonna be right in the numbers. Receivers that play here are just gonna have to get used to that. I dunno, if I'm Terry Robiskie, maybe I find a way for the Juggs machine to fire "at random" so these guys get used to catching balls from a variety of catch points.

Well, the fact that Beane came right out and took ownership of his mistake of not adding a veteran QB to the roster after the McCarron trade should tell you that the front office is capable of evaluating itself and realizing their mistakes. 2018 is the proverbial "sacrifice season" in this process as they work toward sustained success for the future. They knew going into this year that the offense was super young and inexperienced and that it was going to be a bumpy ride. It certainly seems to be finishing up much better than the way it started, though. Even in their last few losses, they haven't been blown out, they've made it a competitive contest and have only lost by seven or fewer points. And at this time of the year, all teams are scanning the waiver wires, looking at practice squad guys, etc. as they start to shape the roster for the 2019 season. You'll see in January a number of guys will be signed to "futures contracts" and all that. They're really still just evaluating and trying to see who has some talent they can work with going forward. And to give an example of "by design" I would point to John Miller and Ike Boettger. Miller wasn't necessarily losing snaps to Boettger for poor performance, its more that they wanna get a look at some guys who haven't had a whole lot of game experience this season. Combine that with the fact that this is Miller's final contracted year here with things indicating that he probably won't be re-signed here, unless they can't find any better options, and that's why Boettger is getting some playing time. I believe McDermott said he wanted to do the same with Milano's spot. He said Corey Thompson, Julian Stanford and Deon Lacy will probably all get snaps there over the last couple games. Essentially they're just sorting through the roster and trying to find out who to hang onto and who to let go as they gear up for 2019.

I'm with you on this. I was a fan of EJ, he did and said all the right things. Clearly he wasn't a first-round guy, but he's certainly more than capable of being a #2 somewhere. I don't know what the heck Mark Davis was expecting when he brought Gruden back on. The guy obviously stays stuck on his evaluations and opinions of players, but it's becoming quite evident that his evaluations and opinions are stuck in 1996 and they're just plain bad. To look at the film between EJ and Peterman and say, "You know what? Nate's my guy," says to me that maybe Gruden should've stayed in the booth. Yup. And they gave Beane a 5th to get him, hahaha. Someone posted it elsewhere in this thread but the Raiders have scooped up JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Matt Flynn, EJ Manuel, AJ McCarron and now Nathan frickin' Peterman all after they played with the Bills. Watch Tyrod head there next season.

Ah, yes. I see the video evidence. One severely sprained mangina for little Timmy.