Logic

Getting beaten one-on-one by Kawaan Short is gonna happen. It just is. Short is a top 10 DT in the NFL. I don't know what people think happens in the trenches, but you win some reps and you lose some reps. No one -- not even perennial All-Pro guards -- ever wins every single rep against defensive linemen. Spain is the least of my concerns when it comes to the Bills o-line.

This is Bob's usual schtick. Anyone who still believes him even 10% is a rube, plain and simple.

He was not getting beat on every single snap. He was beat a couple of times by Kawaan Short, who is one of the best in the business. Short gets paid, too. The book on Spain has already been written: He's an above average run blocker and an average pass blocker. Everything we've seen thus far in camp and preseason backs up this notion. There's a reason he's been basically the unquestioned starter at left guard since camp opened. He clearly brings stability and skill that the coaching staff likes. Notice that with all the mixing and matching they have done on the o-line "to find the best five guys", Spain has pretty much been a constant. He'll be fine.

I'm at the point where I'm just going to assume that Feliciano is going to start at center for most of the season. If Morse is healthy, it's a great bonus. At this point, after 3 weeks in concussion protocol, I'm not counting on him.

What makes any of the other receivers that he would be cut in favor of -- none of whom have ever caught a regular season touchdown -- worthy of booting him off the roster? The fact that they impressed in camp or a preseason game?

Josh Allen!!! LeSean McCoy Frank Gore Devin Singletary John Brown Cole Beasley Mitch Morse (might not play in preseason as it is, but still) Jerry Hughes Ed Oliver Star Lotulelei Tremaine Edmunds Matt Milano Tre'Davious White Levi Wallace Micah Hyde Jordan Poyer So yeah, I don't see much value in trotting any of the above listed guys out for the third preseason game. I just don't. Bubble wrap them all and we'll see 'em week one against the Jets. I'm not alone in this. Sean McVay and Matt Nagy have been resting just about their entire starting 22 the past couple preseasons, as well.

What I don't get is why they haven't been trying him out as a punt returner. And, to my knowledge, he hasn't been playing special teams, either. There's no way they keep an RB4 on the main roster who can't play special teams. Even if they did, it would be Yeldon. I like Wade and I'm enjoying his story as much as the next fan, but he needs to be on the practice squad at best.

Well first of all, he plays all four special teams units. A player that plays all four special teams units is more valuable than a back-end receiver who doesn't really contribute on special teams. So even if special teams were ALL that Dimarco did, he would be worth keeping over a non-ST contributing depth receiver. But it's NOT all he does. He plays about 20-30% of the offensive snaps. Daboll's offensive playbook is extremely similar to New England's. It features a fullback. In the NFL, your offensive system either features a fullback or it doesn't. Daboll's does. You could employ a back-end-of-the-roster TE as a fullback, but he probably wouldn't be any good at it. Unless and until the Bills change offensive coordinators and offensive playbooks, you can count on them continuing to employ and use a traditional fullback.

The level of hate that Zay Jones gets among Bills fans is UNREAL. It truly boggles the mind. Anyway, that having been said.... I believe the six receiver spots are all but set: Brown Beasley Jones Foster Roberts McKenzie This staff loves versatility. The fact that McKenzie can return punts and kicks in a pinch while also backing up Beasley in the slot and being a useful gadget player will get him a roster spot. Well, those things and the fact that he has balled out the past couple preseason games. It's hard for me to imagine a Duke Williams or a Ray Ray McCloud making a big enough late-preseason roster push to kick McKenzie off the squad.

I'm not really sure why the Bills would want to trade away their leader in touchdown receptions from last year for a late round pick. Seems like bad business.

Exactly. To pretend that there's no correlation between preseason execution (or lack of it) and regular season execution is silly. If you can't block to save your life in the preseason, why would you suddenly be able to do it in the regular season? Conversely, if you get open against quality cornerbacks in the preseason, why should I think that you won't be able to do it come regular season? This whole "there is ZERO correlation!" idea has gotten out of hand.

Betting wise, that's a great move on your part. Truly, though: Between the reports from both McDermott and Frazier -- neither of whom is given to heaping praise on players unless they deserve it -- that Murphy looks like a different player, the fact that opposing offensive lines will be devoting more blockers/attention to Oliver and Hughes, and the play I have seen from Murphy with my own two eyes thus far, I'm sticking with my prediction. His career high for sacks in a season is 9, by the way, so the 10 prediction isn't as out there as some might think.

Just to back up my point that it's not a GIVEN that you dominate the opponent in preseason when they're resting key starters: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/17/jacoby-brissett-plays-well-in-andrew-lucks-absence/ "Brissett started today’s preseason game against the Browns and played well, capping his 8-for-10, 100-yard day with a touchdown pass to Eric Ebron in the corner of the end zone. Brissett also ran once for 11 yards." Hmmm...He sure didn't look that way against the Bills!

This year, Hughes and Murphy will bring an adequate amount of pressure and the Bills defense will be very good. Murphy will have at least 10 sacks this year, in my opinion. The main emphasis of the next offseason, though, should be beefing up the pass rush, and I trust it will be. Luckily for us we can go into that refurbishing of the position with a still-producing and recently extended Jerry Hughes, at the very least. And a big bonus: Darryl Johnson seems like he can really play. He may be a true late round steal. I expect 2-3 new edge players to be added using premium resources in the offseason.

In my 10-team PPR snake draft league, The Bills D was chosen...the pick RIGHT before mine. Grrrrrr. Josh Allen was not drafted. Cole Beasley also was not drafted (I picked him up after the draft)..

I realize this thread could probably go elsewhere, but then again, it IS Bills related. So, people of TSW: Are you planning on drafting or have you drafted already any Bills players to your fantasy team? I went running back heavy early on, which left me in a position of having to find some hidden gems at WR later in the draft, as I only really had Antonio Brown (yuck, but he was a great value where I picked him) to lean on. As such, I wound up with -- among others -- John Brown and Cole Beasley. Primarily, I think Beasley will be a PPR monster this year, to the tune of at least five catches a week. Brown will be streaky, like Foster was last year, but with some 100 yards and 1 TD games sprinkled throughout the season. I've been thinking of adding Josh Allen, who went undrafted in my 10-team league, but I already have Deshaun Watson and Baker Mayfield, so I'm not sure it's really necessary. Also, related to the reports out of recent Bills-Panthers practices, I passed on DJ Moore early and went with Curtis Samuel in later rounds instead. Anyone who can dust Tre'Davious two days in a row in practice...well, ya know. What about you?

https://theathletic.com/1143752/2019/08/17/what-do-you-not-see-in-him-josh-allens-economical-week-in-carolina-has-bills-eager-for-regular-season/?redirected=1 Excerpts: “It’s awesome to see him kind of transforming in front of all of our eyes into his second year,” tight end Lee Smith said. “I wasn’t here for his rookie year, but I was obviously told a lot about him. The word on the street was just the upside he had. But upside is just that. It’s upside, right? But to watch him kind of take control of this offense. Him and Dabes (offensive coordinator Brian Daboll) have such a great relationship, they’re on the same page. It’s really fun to watch. To see him kind of figure them out for two days which would be as if we were game-planning during the week. To come out here and take advantage of certain things and change a couple calls, and have control of the offense, it was fun to watch and it’s exciting. “What do you not see in him?” Beasley said. “He has the arm. He can move, he can extend plays. He has everything you would want in your quarterback. There’s still room to grow, which is awesome. I’m just happy to have the opportunity to grow with him and be a part of that process. The dude is very, very talented and has all the tools.” “He’s as good as anybody I’ve ever been around in the huddle,” said Smith, a nine-year NFL vet. “He’s a little bit like an 8-year-old off the field, but when we get on the ball, he’s a grown man and he does his business.” “He’s a natural leader,” DiMarco said."

Well, I follow the game and use logic, and I disagree with the notion that pre-season results have no correlation to regular season results. For the past infinity years, the Bills have looked awful and disjointed and undisciplined and disorganized in preseason, and guess what? They looked the same way come regular season! I agree that the SCORE and the SCHEMES don't correlate, but I DO think that knowing your assignment and executing it better than your opponent can execute his assignment DOES matter. The whole point of my original thread is that just because the final score doesn't matter and the schemes are vanilla, it doesn't mean that NOTHING can be drawn from the preseason games. I disagree with that notion. I think it's a myth. I think people tend to confuse final score not mattering and schemes not being indicative of regular season usage with the whole enchilada not mattering and not being able to show you anything. But it DOES show you something. That's why the games are played, and that's why coaches go into each preseason game with specific objectives. Feel free to be more cautious than I and to not draw conclusions, but to say that I don't "follow the game or use logic" because I think execution matters in the preseason is unwarranted.

Is this really all anyone has? "The opponents were missing key players"? What do Bills receivers beating their cornerbacks have to do with Luke Kuechly or Andrew Luck? What do the Bills front four whooping the o-linemen in front of them and controlling the line of scrimmage have to do with McCaffrey or Hilton? If Bills players from various position groups (including groups who ARE playing all their key starters) are out-executing their opponents, it's a good thing. I don't care that the opposition didn't play. Recently this preseason, the Patriots absolutely WHOOPED the Lions. They beat them in all three phases THOROUGHLY, and won 31-3. And guess what: the Pats rested Tom Brady! How would you feel if the Bills had gotten thoroughly outplayed and beaten 31-3 by the Luckless Colts or the Newtonless Panthers? Dominating opponents who are missing key starters is a GOOD thing, and it's not a given.

And if the Lions play all their starters, and the Bills do too, and the Bills wind up playing better and continuing to look good overall....THEN are we allowed to be excited? Better question: Can't we just be excited now? It's football. Our football team looks good. Once again, I'm not saying "Super Bowl champs!", I'm just saying this team looks completely prepared, is executing soundly, and I have hope that this sound execution and preparation can carry over into the regular season. The most optimistic thing I've said so far is that they might win 10 games. I get it, some people like to guard themselves against disappointment after experiencing it so much over the past two decades. Not me. I choose optimism, because life is short and sports are fun.

I have this recurring feeling that people didn't read the original post. My basic point was that while schemes and scores don't matter, execution does, and the Bills have been executing well. Our players have been lining up and beating the players lined up across from them. I don't care who those players lined up across from them are. Your job in football is to out-execute the player you're going against in individual matchups ("do your one eleventh"), and the Bills have been. Personnel and scheme don't matter to me. Execution does.

It's almost like you didn't read my post at all. I admitted that record and final outcome of games don't matter. I said that I look for sound execution, which the Bills have demonstrated. I never said this preseason means that the Bills are winning the Super Bowl this year. I just said they've looked very good, out-executed their opponents, and have done so in a way that leads me to believe their performance will carry over into the regular season. And if the point is "cool it, it's only preseason, we have to wait and see", well...I know that. It's the title of the thread. ? What if the Bills HADN'T out-executed their opponents even though they're resting starters? That's happening all around the league this preseason. Sloppy performances by teams going against opponents who are resting key players. You're SUPPOSED to dominate opponents who are resting starters, and the Bills have. And once again, THE BILLS were also missing key players. Are Alexander and Hyde not crucial to defensive success? Are Morse, Nsekhe, and Brown not going to play big parts on offense this year? If all anyone has to refute my (admittedly cautious and tempered) enthusiasm is "but our opponents have been resting starters", well...did you read the original post?

@Ol Dirty B Enjoy staunchly defending your "I can't take any joy from the fact that my football team looked good the past couple weekends!" stance. Seriously. Have fun with that.

That's weird. I don't seem to remember the Bills playing Lorenzo Alexander or Micah Hyde on defense last week, yet they shut down the Colts offense pretty convincingly. I don't seem to remember Mitch Morse, Ty Nsekhe, or John Brown suiting up for Buffalo tonight. The Bills offense still took it to the Panthers defense. Look: You can only play the people on the field. If the opposition is without key players, it means you'd better DOMINATE them. And the Bills did -- even though they, too, were missing key players. Like I said, the alternative -- and this is happening across the league to teams who are playing against opposition that are resting star players -- is to come out and look bad and fail to execute EVEN THOUGH the opposition is not at full strength. What would you say then? If you want to be a pessimist about it and refuse to take even a modicum of cautious optimism from the fact that the Bills have looked better than their opponents two weeks in a row, then so be it. Fandom must be a real drag for you with that type of outlook. Me? I'll roll with cautious optimism, because life is short and sports are supposed to be fun.