Logic

Yes. Health and public safety be damned. We need to see Josh throw the ball out of the stadium.

Actually, the spike in COVID numbers in states that held the largest protests pales in comparison to the spikes in red states that re-opened early and with no mask-wearing protocols, where people pack into bars and restaurants. Minnesota (where George Floyd was murdered) is adding about 250 cases a day. Oregon, which has seen 22 straight days of protests in Portland, some as large as 12,000 people, is adding about 160 cases a day. Meanwhile, Arizona, Texas, and Georgia are adding cases by the THOUSANDS every day. Too-early reopening in states with no mask protocols has been responsible for VASTLY more infections than masked protests. If you don’t believe me, go look at the numbers yourself.

Not only what HardyBoy said, but if you are admittedly "unsure" about masks being effective but are choosing not to wear them, can you please stay home and not go into any public spaces ever? Because choosing not to wear a mask in public spaces puts OTHER PEOPLE in danger. So when you say "I just disagree, no problem"...Well...it IS a problem, because you're endangering the lives of others. It would be like if I said "ya know what? I've educated myself as I can about using using the 'safety' switch on my gun, and I just don't agree with it. So when we hang out in common spaces, I'm gonna walk around with my gun and not have the safety on. No Problem". You see? It IS a problem. It's not just YOU that is affected by this choice!

I stand by what I said. You're making a selfish choice. By the way, Below is a link to a recent study on the matter, which I just posted a link to above your post. And one more thing. Ya know all the other countries...ya know, the ones that have essentially beat COVID and are starting to return to normal life? Masks. They all wore masks. But sure, continue to ignore science and real world results and continue to pretend like there's actually a reasonable debate about effectiveness of masks in mitigating the spread of COVID. Knock yourself out. If everyone thinks like you do, maybe we'll get to have a football season sometime a couple years from now. God forbid you have to undergo a SLIGHT bit of discomfort by wearing a scrap of fabric over your face for a few months. https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117#sec-5 "Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic worldwide. We conclude that wearing of face masks in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with extensive testing, quarantine, and contact tracking, poses the most probable fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic, prior to the development of a vaccine. It is also important to emphasize that sound science should be effectively communicated to policy makers and should constitute the prime foundation in decision-making amid this pandemic"

Even if, in your opinion, the science about masks is "unproven", that still means that you concede that there is a possibility that masks DO help. Like I said: If there's even a 10% chance that masks will help slow the spread of this virus and thus, save lives, and you're STILL choosing not to wear one, it's selfishness, pure and simple. You can say "it's just my opinion". The problem is that your "opinion" in this instance is leading you to do something that can potentially put other people's LIVES in danger. The FIRST LINE of the link you posted says that Fauci has been an immunologist for 34 years. But I suppose I'll believe you and the random Twitter friends you keep quoting instead of, ya know, experts in the fields of epidemiology and immunology. Let me repeat: This is the problem. Too many people think that their OPINIONS -- based on having spent about 10 minutes reading pseudo-science and lies from random dingbats on Twitter and not vetting these opinions to confirm their veracity -- are worth as much as those of trained experts and scientific studies. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/13/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-studies-say-but-wearing-them-still-a-political-issue/#1b8b343c604e https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117#sec-5 "Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic worldwide. We conclude that wearing of face masks in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with extensive testing, quarantine, and contact tracking, poses the most probable fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic, prior to the development of a vaccine. It is also important to emphasize that sound science should be effectively communicated to policy makers and should constitute the prime foundation in decision-making amid this pandemic"

I quoted an article from a national source that people have heard of, that includes results of studies that have been done on the subject. You, thus far, have quoted two tweets from some random people on Twitter with less than 1,000 followers. That's the problem our country currently faces in a nutshell: In many people's eyes, the opinion of some random lunatic on the internet counts for as much as scientific studies. "I've researched the subject" means "I read about it for 10 minutes on some guy's Twitter feed". People think their OPINIONS have as much weight as SCIENCE. That's the problem.

Amen. Put it this way: If there's even a 10% chance that wearing a mask will help to slow or prevent the spread of the virus -- and make no mistake, the likelihood of masks helping in this regard is much higher -- I'm doing it. To refuse to wear a mask is to openly declare "I don't care about you or your health. My comfort is more important than your life". Period. That's all there is to it. Put aside your refusal to believe in science, your selfishness, your sense of entitlement, and just for ONE SECOND think about "we" rather than "me". It's a tiny scrap of cloth over your mouth for a few months, for Chrissakes. Grow up, stop being an ass, and do what needs to be done for the increased safety and health of our population, you self-centered dingbats!

Well I know I'M not going to question the expertise of....*checks notes*....Twitter personality Savanah Hernandez? This nonsense has already been debunked. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/13/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-studies-say-but-wearing-them-still-a-political-issue/#25f1126b604e A new review published in The Lancet looked at 172 observational studies and found that masks are effective in many settings in preventing the spread of the coronavirus (though the results cannot be treated with absolute certainty since they were not obtained through randomized trials, the Washington Post notes). Another recent study found that wearing a mask was the most effective way to reduce the transmission of the virus.

Von Miller, 17 days after testing positive, said he still felt like his lungs were not back to their normal capacity. And he's a lean, muscled up pass rusher. Think about the offensive linemen. Think about the coaches in their 70s. Think about people shaped like Andy Reid. That is simply not true. The increase in positive tests is NOT solely due to increased testing. Positive cases ARE on the rise. Community spread IS on the rise. People pretending that things are improving, rather than re-escalating, have their heads in the sand. There has been drastically less increase in positive COVID cases in states where large protests occurred (like Minnesota and Oregon, for instance) than in states that simply re-opened early and without mask-wearing mandates. Go compare Arizona, Florida, and Texas to Minnesota, Oregon, and DC and tell me what you see.

Breaking News: Baby Goodwin placed on IR, then will skip following season to train for the olympics. [it's a joke. Congrats to the proud new parents. Many happy returns.]

Absolute nonsense. An utter lie.

66 pages. Bills fans are bonkers.

Accusing me of "thinking I'm smarter than everyone else" certainly feels like malice. It also seems like the pot calling the kettle black. Alas...

Refusing to read someone's response to you, insisting on replying to it anyway, then indicating you won't respond to any further replies to you, either. Yep, certainly SEEMS like reasonable, mature, non-hostile discourse. Feel free to @ me if you want to discuss the original topic at any point, rather than continuing to stubbornly insert your own topic of choice and respond dismissively to anyone who dares to disagree.

Why even feed into the hijacking of this thread by people who clearly have no interest in discussing its original subject? Why facilitate and acquiesce to the apparent desire to re-direct a perfectly reasonable and worthy conversation toward subjects which have very little --if anything at all-- to do with what was originally being discussed? Collectivism vs Individualism is a completely different topic than "the impact of violence on revolutions".

Your hostility toward others and your desire to take this discussion in a completely different direction than the one intended by the OP are bizarre. This thread is about the impact of violence on revolutionary movements, and you want to come in here talking about socialism and "my desired form of government"? As if you even KNOW what my desired form of government is, or as if it has ANY impact on what was originally being discussed? If you want to talk about the comparative merits of direct action vs peaceful protest, or of the impact of violence on revolutions, I'm all for it. If you want to continue down the path of condescension, arrogance, rudeness, and completely changing the subject to what YOU want to talk about, I'm out. Good day to you.

I edited my statement because I realized that I, too, was contributing to changing the subject from what the OP intended, by shifting the conversation from violence in revolutions to "left vs right". I'm trying to make a more concerted effort these days not to hijack threads and have them go off in directions unrelated to the OP's intent.

I assume this is your way of outing yourself as both ignorant AND selfish?

Weird. Here I was under the impression that MANY of the freedoms we enjoy today came as a result of revolutions, rebellions, and strikes, put together most often by what you'd refer to as "collectivists". I guess revolutionaries all over the world should just quit trying to work towards a better, more equitable world, since their efforts have historically never achieved anything whatsoever. Besides, it's quite clear that modern, late stage capitalist, materialism-worshipping America is doing just fine in all respects and doesn't require any change anyway. Our American individualism is working ESPECIALLY well as it relates to COVID-19.

The topic at hand is "the place of violence in revolutions", not "why you think leftists and socialists are wrong". I'm sure there are plenty of people in the PPP that would love to take potshots at leftists, if that's what you're after.

I’m not really sure what your point even is. This thread is about football players taking precautions to avoid COVID infection. If you think this is all very simple and easy to figure out and that there’s just DEFINITELY going to be an NFL season, I’d suggest that your head is in the sand, and your position is foolhardy. Ditto if you think it’s as simple as just quarantining ONE player (as the recent infection of TWENTY THREE Clemson players shows). If you want to discuss these matters like an adult, great. If you want to be confrontational and go wildly off topic, save it.

The point of nonviolence is to build a floor, a strong new floor, beneath which we can no longer sink. A platform which stands a few feet above napalm, torture, exploitation, poison gas, A and H bombs, the works. Give man a decent place to stand. - Joan Baez Without a direct action expression of it, nonviolence, to my mind, is meaningless. -Mahatma Gandhi 1869-1948 I want to point out also that there is a subtle but important difference between non-violent resistance and "peaceful protest". Peaceful protest, if it is just marching around in circles or sitting on the lawn with signs, is unlikely to affect change. Non-violent resistance, on other hand -- actions which, without inflicting violence, disrupt the system (traffic, commerce, etc), usually do more to affect change. To use your example of the 60s Civil Rights struggle: It wasn't peaceful protest that changed anything. It was the images of black Americans being beaten, sprayed with fire hoses, and having dogs unleashed on them, that garnered the sympathies and attentions of most Americans. And the actions that brought about those violent repercussions were typically non-violent, disruptive, direct actions. Furthermore, it was on the seventh night of nationwide riots resulting from Martin Luther King's assassination that the Civil Rights bill was finally signed. I'm not advocating for riots, mind you, though I do advocate for non-violent, disruptive, direct action. There is value in both "sides" of the revolution, I suppose: The Civil Rights struggle needed Martin AND Malcolm. It's a very interesting, and age-old question. How much direct action is needed for a revolution to succeed?

Well...this is the problem. It's not just THEMSELVES. If player X gets COVID, and maybe doesn't know it because he's asymptomatic, and then goes out to party that night -- a very realistic scenario for invincible-feeling rich 20-somethings -- he can then spread it to a huge number of people. If it were just "taking responsibility for one's self", it would be a whole different matter. Because of how easily the virus spreads, the reality is that you have responsibility to your community.

When it comes to how it affects the team/sport, symptoms are irrelevant. They can still spread the disease and, thus, still have to be quarantined and be unavailable to practice or play for two weeks. If Josh Allen tests positive for COVID the night before the Chiefs game but has no symptoms, guess what? It’s still two weeks of quarantine.