jrober38

I don't see it. I see a guy who is near the bottom of the NFL in practically every passing category despite playing pretty much every horrible defense the NFL has this year. Defensive scoring ranks, PPG: New England (1st), Tennessee (9th), Philly (18th), Washington (20th), Cleveland (21st), Jets (25th), Bengals (28th), Giants (30th), Dolphins (31st). We should not be struggling so badly to score points. He's played mostly garbage opponents and the results have been terrible relative to his peers. As this thread is about, Allen is a horrible deep passer. His passes often land no where near his intended target, and having better players isn't going to change that because the passes aren't catchable already. I like your optimism, but I see Allen as being one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Upcoming defenses are: Miami (31st), Denver (T6th), Dallas (T6th), Pittsburgh (10th), Baltimore (13th), New England (1st), Jets (25th). This thing could go south in a hurry between weeks 12 to 16 when he faces all above average to very good defensive opponents.

I think the odds of finding a guy via a draft pick in the 1st or 2nd round are higher than the odds that Allen improves to the point where he's a legit franchise QB. I think that historically about 20-25% of guys picked in those areas (excluding guys who go #1 overall) work out. I don't think Allen is any higher than that at this point. He could be a lot lower. I think a lot of people are ignoring how atrocious the teams we've played have been, and how Allen really shouldn't be at the bottom of the league in so many passing categories given how many bottom 8 defenses he's faced. Against a harder schedule, like the one we'll play next year, he could regress badly simply due to playing better teams. We might even see that happen over the remaining 7 games as our current schedule gets tougher with more teams fighting for the playoffs left to go up against.

Yeah, I realize it. I also realize it's practically impossible to win a super bowl without a top 10 guy. Are we happy making the playoffs as a wildcard or are we trying to actually win championships?

This ignores the fact that they could actually find someone better in either the draft or free agency. I don't love to look ahead, but next year's schedule is brutal based off how those teams are playing in 2019. We play: our division, Seattle, San Fran, Arizona, LA Rams, LA Chargers, KC, Denver, Oakland, likely Pittsburgh and likely Indy. I see A LOT of losses there unless our QB is performing as a top 15 guy, and he has a long way to go to get to that level.

You sound exactly like oldmanfan whatever his name is. Is it allowed to have multiple accounts on here? Winston isn't good. He makes too many mistakes but he's also shown an ability to score points, something our QB doesn't do. Allen is one of the worst QBs in the league by every way you can analyze a QB. He's played well in the 4th quarter against some of the worst teams in the NFL. Those games never should have been close, but they were because he couldn't score points in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd quarters because he's such an inefficient passer. When he's played anyone decent, we almost always lose. The schedule is about to get harder. Allen needs to play a heck of a lot better or else the Bills might limp to 8-8 and his seat will be extremely warm heading into the offseason. It's great you love Allen. I don't get it. I don't see any signs that he's a guy who will ever be considered a top 10 QB in the league which is what we should be looking for.

I care about our QB not being ranked as one of the worst starting players in the league. Also, who are you? Am I supposed to remember you? Because I don't. You must have been someone who thought one of EJ Manuel or JP Losman was a good player. Those are typically the most butt hurt people with an axe to grind who follow me around from the old Bills message board.

I agree that's what will happen. I just don't think it's the right choice. History from the past 15-20 years pretty clearly shows that if you're unsure of a young QB after seeing them on the field for two years the correct decision is almost always to cut bait and move onto something else. It never happens because egos are involved, but the inevitable always seems to be coach and or GM get fired, QB gets replaced and the team is back at square one.

I realize what you're talking about, but what you're saying doesn't make any sense. There is no explanation for why McKenzie would look for the ball over the wrong shoulder unless he was coached to look for the ball there. Also our QB is terrible throwing the ball downfield. Why is he being given the benefit of the doubt here?

I'd give him a B+. Rookie tight ends typically produce nothing, and we've got decent production out of him and he looks like a player who could improve and become an asset for us moving forward.

I'd put Knox higher but the rest is bang on. Oliver and Ford haven't come anywhere close to meeting expectations. Ford in particular barely looks like an NFL player.

I think we know who he is now. People don't want to hear it but that's how I feel. Way more often than not that bonus year to tack those final nails into the coffin are just a waste of time that results in everyone getting fired and the QB getting cut or traded at the end of it.

You're assuming Allen threw it to the right spot. I think you're wrong, because it doesn't make any sense. I assume McKenzie knows where to look for the ball. It's probably a play they've practiced numerous times so why would he not know where to look? He's literally wide open. There is no explanation that makes any sense at all that says a wide open receiver just happened to look for the ball in the wrong spot. On the flip side, our QB who literally hasn't completed a pass that's gone more than 30 yards in the air, and is known for accuracy problems, seems like a much more likely candidate to be the one who screwed things up. The QB who struggles to throw deep everytime he throws deep, struggles on this play, and your reaction is to blame the wide open wide receiver? Sureee........

Plus Eli Manning. You can make a case for Matt Stafford but he got hurt his second year even though he started that season well. Those four names are the only ones that really apply. Three of which were #1 overall picks.

This was true 20+ years ago. It's not really true anymore. If you don't show you can play really well within 2 years, there's next to no track record of QBs going on to having successful careers as franchise guys over the past 10-15 years.

All of these things are blatantly obvious at this point.

Sorry but it's not on the WR. The WR did his job and is wide open. Unfortunately our QB yet again overthrew a wide open receiver on a deep ball by a good 4-5 yards and it was no where close to being completed.

Agreed. If Allen is still near the bottom of the league in QB Rating at the end of the season we should cut bait on him. The history of guys who struggled like Allen who went on to become successful after two years is few and far between. We won't do it, and everyone will go down with the ship next year.

I think he's just not a very good passer because that's what he's always been. Allen is an NFL QB. He should already know how to not miss receivers on throws more than 30 yards downfield by 10 yards. His footwork and throwing motion couldn't look worse. His mechanics are just a mess. This appears to be some sort of long developing corner route that Allen throws to the wrong shoulder. The ball should be thrown to the sideline so McKenzie can adjust his route and run underneath it. In all seriousness the ball is thrown about 10-15 yards from the spot it should land which is much closer to the sideline.

The San Francisco 49ers are currently the 4th highest scoring offense in the NFL. Is anyone calling them prolific? Obviously not. The Greatest Show on Turf was prolific. The 16-0 Patriot's offense of 2007 was prolific. The 2018 Chiefs were prolific. In no way shape or form was the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense ever even for a moment considered prolific.

19th in scoring and 47th in yards, and they're "PROLIFIC"? Gimme a freaking break.

Sigh. Wyoming was 19th in total points and 47th in total yards in 2016. Whoop di freaking doo. I think you'd struggle to find literally anyone but yourself who would describe the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense as being prolific. You want to talk about camp? Yikes. You want to go back to the 70s when 5 QBs threw for 3,000 yards and 6 QBs posted a QB Rating above 80? Yikes. Maybe try keeping it in this millennium. The NFL has changed dramatically over the past 20 years. Only someone without a brain wouldn't know that. Keep going on. You brought nothing even remotely intelligent to the conversation. Keep living the 70s, 80s and 90s pretending that how football was played then and how QBs were developed in that period of the game has anything to do with how things have been done for the past 10-20 years. The Wyoming Cowboys offense was prolific? Maybe the stupidest thing I've ever read on a Buffalo Bills message board. CONGRATS!!

Hard to imagine him getting more than another year if things don't improve dramatically.

Sorry but he wasn't. These stats include last year. 3 for 36 over his career on passes over 30 yards. Absolutely pitiful.

The major issue is that Josh Allen routinely misses his receivers on deep balls by 10 yards. No wide receiver in the NFL is going to make up for his area code accuracy.

Not the best, but Allen is struggling badly to execute the offense. Daboll often schemes guys open, and Allen either doesn't find them or doesn't hit them.