jrober38

All of which happened after the whistle blower report was filed, and the White House likely got wind of it. You obviously didn't follow along very closely today. It was about no meeting unless they investigated Biden. That was the trade. That was the quid pro quo. Sondland, Guiliani and Volker spent months working on the Ukrainians to make the announcement in exchange for the Ukrainian President getting to visit the White House.

He said about 20 to 25 times there was a quid pro quo. There would be no meeting at the White House unless the Ukrainians publicly announced they would investigate Biden and Burisma.

LOL A week after the whistle blower report was filed, Trump claims there was no quid pro quo, and Sondland refuses to say today while under oath that he believed him. Trump got caught, and tried to cover his ass. Despite that "testimony", Sondland said numerous times today that it was a quid pro quo. I wonder why.

This was more than a week after the whistle blower complain was filed. Convenient timing.

Exactly. If someone plans to blow up a building (buys explosives, stakes out the target, etc) and then doesn't do it for whatever reason, their intent can still make them guilty of a crime. That's where the conspiracy kicks in. In this case, Trump's intent for 2.5 years was to get the Ukrainians to dig up dirt on Biden, and the only reason the meeting never happened was because they got caught by the whistle blower.

Jordan clearly has no idea how the law works or what a conspiracy to break the law is.

I'm not forcing anything. There is plenty you can read online to educate yourself on the issue. The meeting isn't the issue. The issue is the investigation into a political rival. Trump extorted an ally at war with a US enemy to benefit himself politically. Laws were clearly broken, even if you don't agree with them.

You can't honestly believe this can you? Funds don't have to be tied to it. Federal law is clear in that regard. Trump broke multiple laws. That's very clear after today's testimony.

Unable to think for myself? I'm just looking at the testimony that's been given by witnesses under oath. Trump extorted a foreign government for his political gain domestically. In doing so he broke federal campaign finance laws. All of that is obvious at this point.

Doesn't have to be funds. Just has to be something of "value". For example, if Zelinsky asked his justice department to investigate Biden or Burisma, and doing that cost any amount of money, that would be an example of value. It's all really easy to follow. Just read the link. Sections B, F and G were all violated.

https://www.fec.gov/regulations/110-20/2019-annual-110#110-20 The hearings from the guys who never spoke to Trump directly?

No. Others were just not told there was a quid pro quo. They didn't have access to Trump or Guiliani like Sondland had.

Yes. That's illegal. It's a campaign finance violation.

You obviously can't read, or you're selective choosing to ignore that Sondland has said numerous times that the quid pro quo he was aware of involved trading a White House meeting for a public announcement into the Bidens.

Yes they are. Campaign finance violation, similar to the one Michael Cohen is sitting in jail for.

Exactly. He's guessing on the aide. He's not guessing that the meeting was conditional into an announcement of Ukraine investigating the Bidens. The quid pro quo was already in place.

No. That's not what he's said. He said he's presumed the aide was tied to the quid pro quo, which was already in place regarding the trade of a meeting for the public announcement. He knew the quid pro quo was trading a meeting at the White House for a public announcement that they would investigate the Bidens. That's where 2 + 2 = 4 Are you really this dense? This is pretty straightforward at this point. Are you guys even listening to what he's saying? The quid pro quo that Sondland KNOWS happened was trading a meeting at the White House for a public announcement that they were investigating the Bidens. He assumed the bit about the aide, but the quid pro quo was already in place. 2 (meeting at the White House) + 2 (military aide) = 4 (public announcement into Bidens) The bold parts, Sondland has said he knew happened. No guessing.

So Sondland is lying? He's said probably 20 times today that there was a quid pro quo. No meeting without a public statement saying Ukraine was going to investigate Biden.

Again, he's obviously trying his best to not implicate himself in any crimes.

I'm not wrong about anything. I agree with your overall timeline. I'm saying the push for a quid pro quo started this spring after Zelinsky was elected president.

The push for a quid pro quo began this May, following Zelinsky's election as president. You're right that Guiliani had been there for years though working on conspiracy theories.

Donald Trump is a guy who constantly shows that he cares about numbers, or ratings. He cares about TV Ratings, the stock market, his approval rating, etc. All of which are routinely referenced in press conferences and on his twitter feed. He understands that numbers are something everyone can understand, and he uses them often. At the time all of this began in May, Biden was the clear cut Democratic front runner. He was 10+ points ahead of any opponent in the polls, and seemed like there was a good chance he'd be Trump's opponent next year. I assume there was a reason Trump didn't go after other democratic candidates. I assume he went after Biden because someone he trusts told him Biden would likely be the candidate he'd face. Biden is the centrist candidate, and the US probably isn't ready for more radical ideas. Just because it might not materialize, doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't receive anything of value from putting this quid pro quo together. Biden's campaign is finished. At this point I think he's been guilty by association. Something bad happened in Ukraine, and anyone associated with Ukraine is probably dead in the water politically in the US. Saying I'm not objective isn't true. I've posted over the past couple years I think Clinton should have been prosecuted. There was too much smoke there to not think something major happened. A proper investigation should have happened, but Clinton's political allies didn't let that happen which is very unfortunate. Trump is the President of the US. He's the most powerful person on Earth. Saying I don't care about other issues is false. I do care, I just care more about cleaning up the office of the Presidency which I think has been severely damaged over the past 3 years. Things need to be cleaned up and starting with the guy at the top would go a long way in doing that. It would warn all future office holders that this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.

Then lock him up. Lock them all up. You can't keep having it both ways, blindly supporting Trump because he's your guy.

In other words, you couldn't give a flying you know what about Trump breaking any rules. He's your guy. Ride or die. #ruleoflaw LMFAO

OMG You guys are morally bankrupt. There's nothing Trump can do that would ever make you criticize him. Unbelievable. I can only imagine the double standard if Barack Obama had done this.