GunnerBill

Yea it is also a numbers point for me. If he can start stacking 800+ yard seasons together then fine, I'm willing to bump him up to a WR2 definition despite his limitations anywhere but the slot. At the moment in his two years starting he has a 600 yard season and an 800 yard season. If he settles more at the 2024 end of that (and I think he can), fine, happy to call him a WR2. And before I get the pile on I will just remind everyone that my yards and touchdowns prediction for Shakir in 2024 was out by one single yard. I had 820 and 4. I've got a good handle on who he is.

To add to the two backup QBs they already had..... seriously it's soooo bizarre. I'm pretty confident if it is a genuine competition Sanders will win the job. But I got the strong sense that the GM and HC don't want him to so I doubt it is a genuine competition.

What Shenault can do at his position? Yea that's diddly squat.....

Yea if Beane had come in saying "guys look, I know you have been talking a lot about receiver this morning but honestly I'd love to have drafted one but I stuck the board and went in other spots and I feel good about what we have" then no issue. It was the "this is 2018", "let me speak" and "you guys wanna play fantasy football" that was the issue. I have no problem at all with him pushing back on the receiver narrative some. But he came in unnecessarily hot and actually I think if you listened to the full show as I did Jeremy and Joe had actually given quite a lot of credit for the defense moves and their conversation about receiver was a broader one about prioritisation of them, salary cap strategy, and how you factor that into draft value. Equally I actually thought Jeremy responded pretty well but then his closing after Beane had finished the call of "we are not playing fantasy football, we are smarter than that, and we are not here to be belittled" was equally unnecessary and petty. I've been there. I got the famous Sir Alex Ferguson hairdryer treatment back in 2005 when interviewing him because I asked a question he didn't like. You just have to keep your cool.

But that wasn't what he attacked them for. He attacked them for their response to this draft "this is just like 2018 when you all wanted Rosen."

I think Codrington would beat him out comfortably.

The addition of Moore to me means the Bills have four proven high end #3 receivers: Palmer, Shakir, Moore and Samuel. With Josh Allen throwing them the ball at least a couple of those guys are capable of putting up at least WR2 type numbers. And then Coleman's development and the role of Kincaid are kinda the wildcards for me.

Except the task he thought he was taking them to was not really a fair reflection of the discussion they had been having. He flew off the handle at them based on listening to 2 minutes out of context. It was a bad look.

Yea as Gonzo said a page or so back the guy this hurts is Shavers. He was the clubhouse leader for WR5 before this signing.

There is not a zero chance of Shenault making this roster but it is close to zero.

Yea I like it. I think he gives you depth behind Shakir and he is versatile he can do some boundary stuff (although he isn't quite your pure outside vertical guy). I know he hasn't done it a ton in the league but he did some return stuff at Ole Miss too. So that gives him some ST value.

Agreed.

I think that plan will fail. I just don't think he has the skillset to do it.

He was taken in the third. But yes. I think the unusual skillset and Arkansas' inability to always use it effectively played in.

I'd have gone up for BTJ. I am on record with that. I'd have gone up for Addison the year before too.

I said it up thread, but appreciate that it is a lot to wade through.... part of it is scheme fit. I think he has to play in a 4 man front that use bigger ends at the 5 and the 7. I think right now there are more 3-4 teams given the proliferation of Fangio copycat defenses knocking about and even among the 4-3s there are some teams - like Houston and Cleveland that run a lot more wide 9 concept stuff where you want your ends to be fast and bendy. In fact rather than me repeating it I've found the link to the earlier post:

Yea basically this. I don't have a view on Prather actually I haven't watched any of him. I will at some point over the summer try and find some tape but as of now, no view. But I do think there is a gap between the top 2 who we would have had to trade up slightly for cost us one of the 5ths and Lundt and the guys on @JGMcD2's list below them. I think @BillsVet actually summed up my frustration with receiver quite well when he said it just feels like there are some positions where Beane is always worrying about the pipeline - DL, DB, LB, OL, even running back. But it just feels like he is content to go year to year at receiver making tactical adds like Samuel and Palmer in FA rather than being a bit more strategic. The frustration isn't just that he didn't take one this draft. It has been building for four years when he has always seemed to find a reason to prioritise something else over keeping that pipeline of weapons for Josh well stocked (do you stock a pipeline? mixed metaphor maybe.... but you get the point )

All of this kind of proves my point though, it comes down to what you prioritise. Would a developmental receiver, likely our WR5 in 2025, play fewer snaps as a rookie than Hancock if he wins that job off Cam Lewis and a TE3 who is a blocker? Yep. But is that what we are prioritising? Which guy has the easiest path to snaps in 2025? Why are we not looking at these rookies as potential four year investments? I'm really only talking about the trade up guys - Horton and Lambert - developmental speed receiver who can play outside and the Bills had for a 30 visit. To get either of them the trade up would have meant giving up one of the 5ths (either Hancock or Hawes) and Lundt to trade up. One way of looking at it is your way and saying who plays most snaps in 2025? My approach might be more if all six guys we are talking about here: Hancock, Hawes, Lundt, Strong, Horton and Lambert are starting level players by the end of their rookie contracts which ones cost the money to pay? It's the receivers, then Strong and Lundt (if he stays at tackle). So if I have a chance to take a shot on getting one of those at a discount rate who makes the most sense to get - it's the receivers. Add to that - how much better are the Bills if Hancock is 25% better as a DIME and DB utility piece than Cam? How much better are they if Hawes is on the field instead of Anderson? Whereas how much better are they if a Horton or Lambert does outplay expectations and by their second year are a legit piece of the offense? I think unquestionably the last of those makes the biggest % difference in the Bills as a team. I like Lundt and Strong and while I watched less of Hancock and very little of Hawes I understand the fit for them. In isolation they all make sense. It is the opportunity cost that makes less sense to me when you pass on a developmental guy who could potentially in future years be a receiver that makes plays for you. I think Beane takes the wrong message from Khalil Shakir. It shouldn't be "great he hit I don't need to worry about shooting for developmental receivers much for the next few years." It should, in my opinion, be "great, day 3 is a place where you find less well rounded receivers but guys with specific skillsets that you can then fuse together and make work with Josh Allen."

I thought he was an ordinary prospect, I'm sorry to say. I like this year's first three picks a LOT better than I liked last year's. Elijah Moore would give you that, and if Shakir can stay healthy give you some snaps outside too. I like that idea more the more I think about him.

This is the point. It isn't this draft in isolation. It's longer term prioritisation.

When instead it could go on your 3rd tight end, 10th OL or 7th DB...... That is the point here. Not that they should have forced a receiver pick early. But that when they get to the bit of the draft where they are attacking roster needs development receiver is always bottom of the list.

He is good at the deep over routes, yep, where he can run across the field. That just suits him much more. He didn't play much from the slot in 2024, although I think is telling that his slot snaps steadily ticked uo all year and the 3 games where he had double figures in snaps from the slot came in the last 4 weeks of the season. The Bills definitely had it in their minds as the season went along. But he did make multiple of his big plays from tight splits. Even he was still the "inside" it was getting him a bit tighter and throwing him slants and and in breaking routes to get him the ball in traffic over the middle. That is still where he is at his best. He is still the guy who runs the gauntlet really well. He will make some plays on the outside on vertical routes where he can box a defender out and come down with a contested ball but that is a hard way to live consistently in the NFL. And his contested catch percentage wasn't that high. But ever vertical ball will be contested because he is a non-separator. He is still a basketball player who plays to contact off the defender rather than a guy with the nuance, burst and short area quickness to separate either early in routes or through his break at the top of them.

Ugh. That would be really inconvenient for me.

1. Yea. I very strongly disgaree. 2. I think that's fair on Palmer. 3. I am really not. My point about this draft is not there was a guy to transform us this year that Beane missed on. It is that the things he prioritised over and above a developmental vertical receiver on day 3 are indicitive of the urgency and priority he attaches to the position. Maybe none of the developmental guys in the class ever amount to anything. But Beane's two best receiver picks were day 3 developmental guys that did. And you miss every shot you don't take. There were intriguing developmental options there. The Bills had at least four of them in the building for visits. And they instead focused on TE3, and a Cam Lewis upgrade etc. 4. Of course the Bills are hard to defend. They have Josh freaking Allen. But there were teams who were able to do it. The Bills will be a top 5 scoring offense again. I have no doubt about that. But just saying that is good enough and not seeking out more talent for Josh is a mistake. If people are mad about this draft in isolation because we didn't get a receiver that's one thing. I think this is my favourite Beane draft since at least 2019 and has the potential to be his best since 2018. But I am worried about his approach to receiver. Not just in this draft. More generally. I don't think he does prioritise it sufficiently.

Move the needle immediately, for the Bills it was just Golden really and he went right at the point I'd have started to consider it value to go up for him. I think that slightly misses the point though. Beane and some people siding with him want to make out that those talking about receiver were desperate for one early. That is by and large not true. It is certainly not true of me - in the Landon Jackson thread I was very clear and receiver at any of those spots days 1 and 2 over the guys we took was a reach. But by Beane's own admission when you get into day, and especially rounds 5 on you start attacking needs on the roster rather than simply saying BPA. He talked about that AT LENGTH in his pre draft presser. And when it came to those needs he valued a TE3, competition for Cam Lewis, another outside corner (although he did say Strong was BPA and that is believable he was 6th best on my board at that stage) and a developmental tackle over a developmental receiver. It's that bit that some of us are questioning and it is playing in a narrative that definitely exists over 8 years of drafts that relative to the league Brandon doesn't prioritise the position.